SuperBanana
Banned
10 years difference and 2 professional photos vs a random video screencap.
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CDPR's official response to rumors / talk about morale within studio
- Thread starter Tovarisc
- Start date
10 years difference and 2 professional photos vs a random video screencap.
Gunblade47
Neo Member
You can't have quality without resorting to labour exploitation?
omg poor dude
If this were unique to CDPR you might have a point. Labor exploitation is how the game industry sausage gets made. It's a terrible situation but one that is not likely to change.
I'd be more understanding if they threw us a recent screen shot from Cyberpunk 2077./ Jk 
I mean it's nice that CDPR are always communicating with the fans, they didn't have to here really.
It reads as game development being a real sonovabitch but they are committed to pumping out a high quality game that matches their ambition.
Hopefully they are able to reach that quality bar without suffering too crazy from dev burnout.
Sometimes, it feels like it's the price to pay for getting our massive 10/10 AAA games which isn't great.
I mean it's nice that CDPR are always communicating with the fans, they didn't have to here really.
It reads as game development being a real sonovabitch but they are committed to pumping out a high quality game that matches their ambition.
Hopefully they are able to reach that quality bar without suffering too crazy from dev burnout.
Sometimes, it feels like it's the price to pay for getting our massive 10/10 AAA games which isn't great.
Peroroncino
Member
And then the game set a new record in goty awards received, oh how I love me some good success story.
Hopefully it'll be similar with Cyberpunk.
Iirc the poor morale rumors didn't paint him in a favorable light
Well, at least you can say not only lower level employees work themselves to the bone there.
Iva Demilcol
Member
CD Projekt Red:
Shadow Broker
Banned
If I could find some noob game dev training course I would love to work for/with CDProjekt Red or Nintendo. They flat out said game developement isnt for everyone and its not easy working in the manner that allows them to achieve their goals. Some people willl thrive in this or theyll lose heart and release statements once they no longer collecting a check from them. Its kind of like the military except the game devs has more freedom of choice.
Audioboxer
Member
LOL
There is a Druckmann picture like this and it's equally as hilarious. I can't find it again so someone else on GAF will need to post it.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
Why is CDPR getting all the hate? I'm sure any studio that creates AAA titles will have their staff working just as hard. It's not easy to make these kind of games.
Rockstar has plenty of people complaining about working conditions too but oh no we can't be saying anything negative about them!
Rockstar has plenty of people complaining about working conditions too but oh no we can't be saying anything negative about them!
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I don't know.
I know it's most likely, like almost every triple figure staffed developer working on a AAA game, that there are frequent moments of crunch and overtime and understaffing and underpaid and other frustrations that subjectively from employer to employer may not be worth the effort. And for completely valid reasons. A whole heap of shit is usually involved making blockbuster games, and it's not that the quality justifies the shit, so much as that we're still working out how to retain budget management while inspiring creative process in a reasonable timeframe. I seriously doubt CDPR is even remotely a utopia by and large, even if it is for some. And if people want to leave because the work culture does not mesh with their creative flow, then they are right to leave, because not everybody works or creates things the same way.
But I also know that CDPR sits as a weird underdog in respect to pre-release gossip relative to the end result. The Witcher was janky as shit and built on an ageing engine, yet they still managed to meet acclaim and freely update and patch the production quality to a higher standard. They were almost destroyed before The Witcher 2 could see the light of day due to bad investments, and they had numerous production and publishing barriers that threatened its release. And Wild Hunt was plagued with rumours of a project dead in the water, legitimate bullshottery, yet remains one of my favourite games ever.
So I don't know. I don't know what bullshit is going on there. I don't know if I should be worried about Cyberpunk. I know it probably isn't smooth sailing and probably has changed several times already. And I know there's probably a ton of stuff who've overworked themselves and left for good reason, talent that will be missed. But I also know CDPR hit barriers before and so far have come through three for three, so all I can do is wait and hope they make four for four.
I know it's most likely, like almost every triple figure staffed developer working on a AAA game, that there are frequent moments of crunch and overtime and understaffing and underpaid and other frustrations that subjectively from employer to employer may not be worth the effort. And for completely valid reasons. A whole heap of shit is usually involved making blockbuster games, and it's not that the quality justifies the shit, so much as that we're still working out how to retain budget management while inspiring creative process in a reasonable timeframe. I seriously doubt CDPR is even remotely a utopia by and large, even if it is for some. And if people want to leave because the work culture does not mesh with their creative flow, then they are right to leave, because not everybody works or creates things the same way.
But I also know that CDPR sits as a weird underdog in respect to pre-release gossip relative to the end result. The Witcher was janky as shit and built on an ageing engine, yet they still managed to meet acclaim and freely update and patch the production quality to a higher standard. They were almost destroyed before The Witcher 2 could see the light of day due to bad investments, and they had numerous production and publishing barriers that threatened its release. And Wild Hunt was plagued with rumours of a project dead in the water, legitimate bullshottery, yet remains one of my favourite games ever.
So I don't know. I don't know what bullshit is going on there. I don't know if I should be worried about Cyberpunk. I know it probably isn't smooth sailing and probably has changed several times already. And I know there's probably a ton of stuff who've overworked themselves and left for good reason, talent that will be missed. But I also know CDPR hit barriers before and so far have come through three for three, so all I can do is wait and hope they make four for four.
Pagusas
Elden Member
A company rapidly increases in size and suddenly its workforce suffers? You don't say.
Seriously, its expected. When you jump up in size like they did for Witcher 3, employees stop being as "special". The grass roots/us against the world feeling disappears, you become that corporate giant you always pointed and laughed at. Does it still suck? Sure. But its the corporate cycle of a booming company. I've been through it 3 times in my career now. The hardest part is always the initial talent brain drain that happens when those top guys who wanted that "us against the world" feeling leave for greener pastures and you have to start grabbing other industry free agents. Always makes it feel like the floor is falling out from under you. It always gets better though.
Seriously, its expected. When you jump up in size like they did for Witcher 3, employees stop being as "special". The grass roots/us against the world feeling disappears, you become that corporate giant you always pointed and laughed at. Does it still suck? Sure. But its the corporate cycle of a booming company. I've been through it 3 times in my career now. The hardest part is always the initial talent brain drain that happens when those top guys who wanted that "us against the world" feeling leave for greener pastures and you have to start grabbing other industry free agents. Always makes it feel like the floor is falling out from under you. It always gets better though.
Yeah same, I really appreciate the hard work that devs do. But I don't want anyone killing themselves (even figuratively) over my entertainment. I want great games to have great spirit behind them.
Marcin is a good dude. That said, I know they burned out a TON of folks on W3 that have since departed. It's not a few. I'm sure they've recruited new heads and a lot more to replace those that have left, but their production methodologies are brutal (and they take pride in that fact when you speak to them). They consider it efficiency and don't understand how other devs have games that cost so much more to make.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Really? Because I'm pretty sure my happiness level and enjoyment of the game would be about the same. But if it makes the development staff happier, than I'd be all for it.
Gunblade47
Neo Member
Why do devs put up with it if they can find stable and more reputable careers in corporate software development?
Do some just get duped into it and cant get out easily? Is it an ever revolving door of majority of the older devs leaving the industry and then being replaced by fresh devs? Or do they share the same need to sacrifice their wellbeing for the sake of the "rush" that is releasing that new project or game?
Do some just get duped into it and cant get out easily? Is it an ever revolving door of majority of the older devs leaving the industry and then being replaced by fresh devs? Or do they share the same need to sacrifice their wellbeing for the sake of the "rush" that is releasing that new project or game?
There is nothing more to the tweet than that picture message I embedded.
GillianSeed79
Member
Isn't reinventing the wheel every time you set out to make a game really inefficient? Like are they building a whole new engine for Cyberpunk?
Soul of the Beast
Member
This happens all the time in the industry, people just didn't know about it.
Same thing happened with the new BioWare team that made Andromeda, we stopped talking about that too, people only care about ''new'' victims and pretty much don't give a shit about the old ones.
Same thing happened with the new BioWare team that made Andromeda, we stopped talking about that too, people only care about ''new'' victims and pretty much don't give a shit about the old ones.
That's not what they meant. They want to do new things or change things that they haven't done before like creating an open world game for the first time with The Wild Hunt.
I don't think anyone is too worried about that. It more a question of the how long it's going to take them and price of such quality.
You'r forgetting that game dev is more than just programmer. Most artistic job outside the gaming industries are just as bad. And then you have video game specific job than obviously don't have anywhere else to go.
And yes there's a insane amount of turnover in the AAA industry, there's an almost limitless supply of young dev dreaming of making games to replace the older one.
If its not accurate, its funny. If it is accurate, its horribly sad.
There are few teams I trust more than CD Projekt to put out an incredible product. But those guys must put themselves through the ringer.
MontyBrown
Banned
I have no worries about Cyberpunk.
They will have a fall from grace at some point, but I don't think now is the time. Right now, they're gonna keep riding this amazing wave.
In CDPR I trust.
They will have a fall from grace at some point, but I don't think now is the time. Right now, they're gonna keep riding this amazing wave.
In CDPR I trust.
Like most tech industries young employee enthusiasm and naiveté is taken advantage of. They think they are going to be the next Warren Spector when it's more like you're the next person out of a revolving door who will go right back in when the project is done.
To be expected. CDPRs greatest advantage, besides the insanely talented team, is the fact that they are based in Poland which keeps their labor costs low. Games like TW3 would cost significantly more if made in the US. That said, work conditions would be very similar, if not worse.
This is weird. I didn't think the rumors were anywhere near the point of requiring an official response, and this response feels like a sort of tacit admission that "yeah, it's pretty hellish here, but we like it that way!" They put out an official statement on rumors only a relatively small number of people had heard only to essentially confirm them.
I'm not sure how they aim to reinvent the wheel but using a whole new engine would be kind of crazy after all the iterations they've made to it over the years.
They've made significant updates to their engine (now REDengine 4) for Cyberpunk though.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
This is such an odd post. Like a paragraph-long "deal with it".
But what specifically made people give CDPR bad reviews? EA & Ubisoft & Naughty Dog (& every developer, pretty much, even smallest indies) can have some hellish crunches to get a game out of the door, but as far as I know they don't get these kinds of reviews (at least this numerous). Why is CDPR getting them, specifically?
As much people like to hate on EA, people seem to mostly like working there even if they eventually have a bit of a burn out for the long hours & such and/or want to move on from game industry because they don't want to continue the crunch culture past a certain point in their life (it's maybe all well and good when you are single & young but once you have a wife/husband and children, one might want to have less cruesome hours).
Totally worse. Europe's work conditions are a dream.
Hell on Earth crunch of Naughty Dog has been a known thing for looong time now and people applying to work there know what they are applying for. Also with major publishers people who have been around the industry know what to expect when it comes to working conditions etc.
CDPR is relatively new studio and unknown entity. TW1 was basically 100% Polish production. For TW2 they grew quite a bit and hired people from all around. Then came developing TW3 and required them to expand exponentially in short time when compared to their previous projects. People jumped on board, but as CDPR still was most likely quite unknown entity when it comes working environment people didn't know what they were getting into.
Then CDPR's working environment and development process burned through them leading to negative reviews.
SprachBrooks
Member
Completely different things which shows how handwavey their statement is.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Well, one of the ugly realities of tech and development is that there's a philosophy in place that pushes people to sacrifice their lives and health for "the mission".
It is true a lot people sign on for it willingly, but I do wonder how many of those are people who you never hear back from and ended up regretting it once they burned out. The romantic (?) image of the artist or visionary sacrificing everything for their life's dream is often just that - an image. In reality plenty of people come to feel it wasn't worth it.
It is true a lot people sign on for it willingly, but I do wonder how many of those are people who you never hear back from and ended up regretting it once they burned out. The romantic (?) image of the artist or visionary sacrificing everything for their life's dream is often just that - an image. In reality plenty of people come to feel it wasn't worth it.
Judging by this response and those posts on Glassdoor, it seems to be an issue of management. And I mean, that's understandable with AAA development. And considering how this is their biggest game ever in development, I can't imagine how screwy the workflow is for several of the devs.
I hope they can work things out for the better.
I hope they can work things out for the better.
Voidwolf
Member
Most images don't load up for me at work, imgur and a few other image hosting sites are blocked
I'll just come back to this later on my phone when I have some free time.
Developing a game like Witcher 3 (or even worse, CyberPunk) sounds like some Fitzcarraldo shit.
So i'm not really surprised.
Especially for a studio that grew so fast.
I hope they can manage to find a sustainable way to go about it, in the future.
Not every game you produce needs to be bigger than the last.
So i'm not really surprised.
Especially for a studio that grew so fast.
I hope they can manage to find a sustainable way to go about it, in the future.
Not every game you produce needs to be bigger than the last.
Most images don't load up for me at work, imgur and a few other image hosting sites are blocked
I'll just come back to this later on my phone when I have some free time.
Lets see if abload works for you, long to write out.
It seems like they were more inclined to put to rest the rumors about any employee movements affecting the development of the game rather than denying employee dissatisfaction in the company in general.
I suppose there will be unhappy people everywhere, especially in the case of an organisation of around 400 employees. Their statement, to me, shows that they acknowledge that there were and still might be disgruntled employees due to pressure of 'reinventing the wheel' every time and the intense workload.
However following trends of AAA game development its not a big stretch to say that things are probably unfairly bad for the lower level employees. Hopefully they can find a spot that is better for all unhappy parties involved while continuing to develop good games.
I really hope you are joking. Making a good game and having a pleasant work enviroment are not mutually exclusive. CDPR mistreat their staff, there is no other way to spin it.
Do you have any examples in AAA gaming? I am genuinely asking because all we ever hear about are negative stories.