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Christianity [OT] The Word became flesh and dwelt among us

DunDunDunpachi

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DunDunDunpachi DunDunDunpachi Luke chapter 1 is a good starting point. Sort of confusing though, is this correct?

Gabriel = Angel sent by God to tell certain mothers that they will conceive a child that will fulfill prophecy. Mary will have Jesus thanks to the Holy Ghost’s ways and I think another woman will give birth to John? Or is John Jesus’s brother or cousin? And Zacharias is a random priest or is he related to Jesus in some way as well?
Well to set the stage a little bit, that period in Israel's history was already rife with "prophesied messiahs", and even the name "Jesus" was not a rare name (Hebrew: Yeshua, common variant of 'Joshua'). So Luke was trying to emphasize to the contemporary reader the events that fulfilled old testament prophecies and proved Jesus to be the messiah, including his place of birth, the circumstance of him fleeing to Egypt and then Nazareth, and even his extended family. Zachariah was a priest and conceiving a child was one of the numerous signs leading up to Jesus' birth to affirm his divine nature and origin. John the Baptist is Jesus' cousin so they grew up together. However, in the story about Jesus being baptized, it says that John didn't realize his own cousin was the messiah until he saw the Spirit descending on him like a dove.

There are also two stories mentioned early about a prophetess named Anna and an old man named Simeon who was promised he would see the messiah before he died. These additional stories are more affirmation of Jesus' origins.

I’ll have to re-read it. Was somewhat tired during. And I thought it was crazy that John as a baby praised God as his first words spoken right after birth. That was interesting. Was John born as Jesus was but his role was purely as a human and he is just favored by God; not of Heaven like Jesus is of Heaven?

I guess a simpler wag of putting it is: Is John divine like Jesus or is he just a favored human being by God, sort of like how Mary is favored by God
I don't think John praised God as his first words if you are referring to how John "leapt in the womb" when Mary met with Elizabeth. John was a miracle baby in the sense that his parents were both very, very elderly. But otherwise no, he was not an immaculate conception as was the case with Mary.

John was the fulfillment of Elijah, the prophet who was supposed to "make straight the paths for the Lord". Thematically, that makes Jesus akin to Elisha, and it is interesting to compare their ministries. Elijah = judgment, preaching, warfare against idolatry / Elisha = restoration, healing, feeding the poor.
 

pLow7

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Do you guys listen to Worhsip music at all? And if you do, how do you cope with the ( in some instances ) conflicting doctrines the band/church has?
I can separate the piece of art from the singer. I won't sing/hear a song that is conflicting ( to be honest, i don't think i've ever heard one ).

But i know there are some people that have problems with this. I know a lot of churches that basically forbid singing songs from Hillsong/Bethel etc. because their doctrine does not align with their own, even if the songs don't have to do anything with it.

I also think, that if we discredit everything that does not align with our own ideas, i don't think there is much left.
 
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Scotty W

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DunDunDunpachi DunDunDunpachi Luke chapter 1 is a good starting point. Sort of confusing though

Gabriel = Angel sent by God to tell certain mothers that they will conceive a child that will fulfill prophecy. Mary will have Jesus thanks to the Holy Ghost’s ways and I think another woman will give birth to John? Or is John Jesus’s brother or cousin? And Zacharias is a random priest or is he related to Jesus in some way as well?

I’ll have to re-read it. Was somewhat tired during. And I thought it was crazy that John as a baby praised God as his first words spoken right after birth. That was interesting. Was John born as Jesus was but his role was purely as a human and he is just favored by God; not of Heaven like Jesus is of Heaven?

I guess a simpler wag of putting it is: Is John divine like Jesus or is he just a favored human being by God, sort of like how Mary is favored by God
Iirc, Mary’s sister (Elizabeth?) is John’s mother, which would make him Jesus’ cousin. Zacharias is Elizabeth’s husband.

I think in a few chapters John actually explicitly says that he is not divine, that he is just sent by God to do a task and then get out of the way.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Do you guys listen to Worhsip music at all? And if you do, how do you cope with the ( in some instances ) conflicting doctrines the band/church has?
I can separate the piece of art from the singer. I won't sing/hear a song that is conflicting ( to be honest, i don't think i've ever heard one ).

But i know there are some people that have problems with this. I know a lot of churches that basically forbid singing songs from Hillsong/Bethel etc. because their doctrine does not align with their own, even if the songs don't have to do anything with it.

I also think, that if we discredit everything that does not align with our own ideas, i don't think there is much left.
Not really, I don't listen to worship music except in church. Sometimes I'll put on orthodox hymns. I've heard of some churches restricting music in this way. It is a part of a church's responsibility to not participate in bad doctrine. It wouldn't be something that I would personally feel strongly about, but I get it.

Sorry for going on a rant, but most modern worship music is vain to me. All the lyrics about what God has done for me and how I am so lowly and I was having such a bad time. In between feeling sorry and waxing lyrical about how pathetic I am, then there are brief mentions of how Jesus helped you overcome and feel better about yourself or something, and then it's back to more verses about how destitute and heartbroken I am while I sing this worship sooooooong 🎶

I think religious folk in general can become too enamored with their own displays of humility and repentance. Yep we're sinful, but now we live as a new creation and there is work to be done, lives to be restored, light to shine in the darkness. I don't think the majority of the christian walk was meant to be spent mired in self pity and overwrought contrition. His mercies are new every morning. Great is Thy faithfulness. Now chop chop, work to be done.
 

pLow7

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Not really, I don't listen to worship music except in church. Sometimes I'll put on orthodox hymns. I've heard of some churches restricting music in this way. It is a part of a church's responsibility to not participate in bad doctrine. It wouldn't be something that I would personally feel strongly about, but I get it.

Sorry for going on a rant, but most modern worship music is vain to me. All the lyrics about what God has done for me and how I am so lowly and I was having such a bad time. In between feeling sorry and waxing lyrical about how pathetic I am, then there are brief mentions of how Jesus helped you overcome and feel better about yourself or something, and then it's back to more verses about how destitute and heartbroken I am while I sing this worship sooooooong 🎶

I think religious folk in general can become too enamored with their own displays of humility and repentance. Yep we're sinful, but now we live as a new creation and there is work to be done, lives to be restored, light to shine in the darkness. I don't think the majority of the christian walk was meant to be spent mired in self pity and overwrought contrition. His mercies are new every morning. Great is Thy faithfulness. Now chop chop, work to be done.
Heard a Sermon last time where the Pastor say that people should stop saying "i'm not worth it" and "I'm a nobody". If being a song of god is "being a nobody" to you, then you should get your priorities right.

So i get what you are saying. Though of course, it's a generalisation since of course not every worship song speaks about that. I tend to like/listen more to Songs, that speak about gods greatness and his amazing being.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Gonna rep this podcast cos I saw it as a result of people trying to cancel Mike Nelson and ended up really enjoying it. It’s a Christian podcast where they discuss current events and stuff. Anyways it’s refreshing to me cos it’s the first Christian podcast I’ve ever found lol

 

Cutty Flam

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Thanks for the strong replies

DunDunDunpachi DunDunDunpachi + Scotty W Scotty W

Solid viewpoint Dun, I think similarly. Work is so important, and time so limited to accomplish such works that will be of help to others. But I believe a lot of things may count as ‘work’ towards God. A simple remark can influence a life greatly. The words we choose are paramount in this life. I think I have read in the Bible somewhere alluding to that fact. Or not alluding, but I think I meant to say pointing to that fact. I’m sure I will find it. But thee point is, you are definitely correct. Even serving as a role model and acting correctly or admirably at the right place at the right time can change a life. So many factors in this life that mean much. A very thoughtful mind acting in ways that God would deem righteous and upright is work in itself is the best way I can say it
 

Teslerum

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Not really, I don't listen to worship music except in church. Sometimes I'll put on orthodox hymns. I've heard of some churches restricting music in this way. It is a part of a church's responsibility to not participate in bad doctrine. It wouldn't be something that I would personally feel strongly about, but I get it.

Sorry for going on a rant, but most modern worship music is vain to me. All the lyrics about what God has done for me and how I am so lowly and I was having such a bad time. In between feeling sorry and waxing lyrical about how pathetic I am, then there are brief mentions of how Jesus helped you overcome and feel better about yourself or something, and then it's back to more verses about how destitute and heartbroken I am while I sing this worship sooooooong 🎶

I think religious folk in general can become too enamored with their own displays of humility and repentance. Yep we're sinful, but now we live as a new creation and there is work to be done, lives to be restored, light to shine in the darkness. I don't think the majority of the christian walk was meant to be spent mired in self pity and overwrought contrition. His mercies are new every morning. Great is Thy faithfulness. Now chop chop, work to be done.
EHHHHHHH

No, you're misinterpreting pity and contrition with thankfulness here. Strongly so. Having met various (popular) worship bands and leaders myself *wallowing in self-pity* is the last thing with how to describe them. Seldom met happier people. And most of them actually actively work in various organizations that do exactly that.

But i know there are some people that have problems with this. I know a lot of churches that basically forbid singing songs from Hillsong/Bethel etc. because their doctrine does not align with their own, even if the songs don't have to do anything with it.

I also think, that if we discredit everything that does not align with our own ideas, i don't think there is much left.
That's a sad and useless way to look at things. Absolutely stand to your own doctrine. That doesn't mean you can't work together in christ's name where things overlap.
 
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pLow7

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EHHHHHHH

No, you're misinterpreting pity and contrition with thankfulness here. Strongly so. Having met various (popular) worship bands myself *wallowing in self-pity* is the last thing with how to describe them. Seldom met happier people. And most of them actually actively work in various organizations that do exactly that.



That's a sad and useless way to look at things. Absolutely stand to your own doctrine. That doesn't mean you can't work together in christ's name where things overlap.
I agree. As i said, i think it's important to distinguish the work from the person We can all appreciate what Luther did for the whole christianity while also questioning some of his ideas. That does and should not diminuish in any way what Luther has done.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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EHHHHHHH

No, you're misinterpreting pity and contrition with thankfulness here. Strongly so. Having met various (popular) worship bands and leaders myself *wallowing in self-pity* is the last thing with how to describe them. Seldom met happier people. And most of them actually actively work in various organizations that do exactly that.
I'm not misinterpreting anything, I'm just remarking on how the lyrics come across to me. I've participated and led several worship teams over the decades, so I'm not unfamiliar with the culture and the general attitude of people who lead music in that capacity. I'm fine withthe thankfulness of being saved from sin, and some might express that by singing about how destitute they were. Magnify God by making yourself less. Howver I think that kind of 'worship' can become too much of a focus. Of course there are plenty of psalms where David is singing about himself and his own woes, so I'm not condemning the practice wholesale.
 
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Teslerum

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I'm not misinterpreting anything, I'm just remarking on how the lyrics come across to me. I've participated and led several worship teams over the decades, so I'm not unfamiliar with the culture and the general attitude of people who lead music in that capacity. I'm fine withthe thankfulness of being saved from sin, and some might express that by singing about how destitute they were. Magnify God by making yourself less. Howver I think that kind of 'worship' can become too much of a focus. Of course there are plenty of psalms where David is singing about himself and his own woes, so I'm not condemning the practice wholesale.
On the note of *coming across to me* your previous post came across very differently to me as well😄.

I’m glad though, because we don’t seem to think much differently. I also think I get what you mean by too much of a focus on *lowering yourself*, but I honestly don’t think this is a problem limited to worship. Rather see that often and in worse form as well.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Ultimately i would say it has to be a personal experience and thus what “works” for one type of person may not for another. there are many aspects to God just as there are many people. this is reflected in the Bible as well, not everyone can have the experiences of a Moses or a Noah. or Jesus. each soul has a role to play and is an expression of the light of God.

I also think focusing too much on work may cause one to overlook the aspect of God’s acts of Grace and the produced joy of unconditional love. Life and being as pure gifts, he did not sell these things to us, or put them on credit. Salvation is equally an act of grace. Every life is valuable and every experience is a window to God. in our darkest hours we may think we are alone in our struggle, but He is always there, even in the void and darkness. the root of all being and action. reaching God should not be a thing that takes effort or demands material results, it is more a mindfulness. do what you do but with a Christian mindfulness. at least to me in my mystical Christian ways
 
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#Phonepunk#

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I do want to say this year has been unprecedented in government over reach against Christians. Ordering people to not go to church is a monumental violation of the whole Separation of Church and State that is supposedly this great wonderful thing we have been doing. I guess it’s total bullshit? Now this year some just elected lunatic can order people to not peacefully celebrate their faith? That is monumentally fucked up.

Christianity is directly under attack from radical leftist politicians. This is not conspiracy any more this is old news. My friend was barred from going to a family funeral in a city where there are open air protests of thousands of people. It’s blowing my mind how insane this all is tbh. As a Christian it has given me a new perspective on the faith. I’m sort of a cultural minority, living in a pop culture that largely hates my religion, to the point of celebrating the burning of churches during a riot. We’ve gone from mocking Christianity across all pop media to straight up burning the constitution and having the government tell us we can’t go to church.

During these times it is hard to tell truth from lies so I continue returning to the Good Book and the traditions that have outlasted thousands of years of pandemics and riots. Stay centered and stay safe, peace and blessings to all.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Wow this podcast is really good. If you want to hear Mike Nelson from MST3K relating Bible stories this is the place! I really recommend this Easter edition. They reflect on Good Friday lore, Easter traditions, and dealing with the COVID stuff.

 

#Phonepunk#

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Still no answers to these Christian Gaf?Was looking forward to it...I’m a bit disappointed
He is saying “why did God do this when I think he should have done that” it is all mostly irrelevant pointless critiques. he is talking “plot holes” approaching this on the intellectual honesty of a cinema sins video. Free will exists in the Christian cosmology. This is the main reason God doesn’t just snap his finger in every story and make things better Himself. The humans in Bible stories make mistakes because free will has been granted. This is part of His grace and love. Asking why he allowed something to then happen is kinda missing the point.

As for his repeated question of why would any omnipotent being do anything? Well I don’t understand what his problem is. If you can do everything then why wouldn’t you do even the dumb stuff? If God is perfect and contains all possibilities since he is the root of all then why would certain actions be off limits? By definition if God can do any thing then any questions of “why would he do x?” are entirely irrelevant. unless you are considering the context of the stories themselves. if he wants to really know the meaning behind the garden of Eden then he can read thousands of years of commentary on it. anyone finding “plot holes” in the Bible is just admitting to their own literary ignorance
 
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#Phonepunk#

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As for God “should have had the foresight to create a Jesus mechanism” lol hilarious and also well you are aware that the Messiah is a thing? As in prophecy existed about that exact thing? All of the hints at a saviour in Judaism, are you not aware of any of that? This why the Jesus and Yahweh stuff are tied together with the OT and NT. The messiah was in many prophecy. Do you know what you are even talking about?

LOL So what you are complaining about lacking iS literally in the Old Testament we are talking thousand of years old. There were ancient shepherders who were ahead of you haha.

U need to do some reading son
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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"Revealing to thee the pre-eternal Counsel Gabriel came and stood before thee, O Virgin, and in greeting thee, he said, "Rejoice, earth that hath not been sown; Rejoice, burning bush that remains unconsumed; Rejoice, unsearchable depth; Rejoice, O bridge that leads to Heaven; Rejoice, ladder raised on high that Jacob saw; Rejoice, divine jar of manna; Rejoice, deliverance from the curse; Rejoice, restoration of Adam, the Lord is with thee."
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Let us represent the cherubim in mystic harmony, mystic harmony,
praise the Father, Son and Spirit,
raise our three-fold song, raise our three-fold song,
praise the Trinity, praise the Trinity, raise our three-fold song to the Trinity,
Let us now cast aside, cast aside, let us cast aside all this earthly life,
cast aside, cast aside, cast aside, all this earthly life.
Amen.
King of all, we may receive God the King, we may receive Him!
He who in glory enters in with mighty hosts of angels,
with mighty hosts of angels. Alleluia!

Cherubikon

The hymn symbolically incorporates those present at the liturgy into the presence of the angels gathered around God's throne. It concerns the very heart of the Divine Liturgy—the Anaphora, the earliest part which can be traced back to Saint Basil and to John Chrysostom's redaction of Basil's liturgical text.
 
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Always loved these songs

Johnny Cash w the Carter sisters. First time I heard this was driving up to North Georgia and I felt the spirit I swear there were chills down my spine at parts. So beautiful.

This New Orleans Dixieland dirge is also quite beautiful, very full of longing and soul. It never fails to bring the waterworks.
 
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This morning I scribbled an essay ruminating on the Problem of Evil (aka: how can a just, all-powerful God and evil co-exist) and how it relates to the story of Adam and Eve (via William Blake and Milton's Paradise Lost/Regained). I'm not a religious person - I have faith, but it's very personal - and certainly no Biblical scholar, so if anyone's interested in reading through it and giving thoughts from a more knowledgeable Christian perspective, I'd be fascinated to read them. My blog has no ads or monetisation (it basically exists for me to get thoughts out of my head and to keep writing) so I won't be gaining anything from your reading other than (hopefully) a richer understanding of the subject matter. If parts of it come across as blasphemous, hopefully it's at least clear that it's intended in a spirit of honest, respectful inquiry.

Here's the essay. If anyone reads it, hope you find it interesting!
 

lukilladog

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This morning I scribbled an essay ruminating on the Problem of Evil (aka: how can a just, all-powerful God and evil co-exist) and how it relates to the story of Adam and Eve (via William Blake and Milton's Paradise Lost/Regained). I'm not a religious person - I have faith, but it's very personal - and certainly no Biblical scholar, so if anyone's interested in reading through it and giving thoughts from a more knowledgeable Christian perspective, I'd be fascinated to read them. My blog has no ads or monetisation (it basically exists for me to get thoughts out of my head and to keep writing) so I won't be gaining anything from your reading other than (hopefully) a richer understanding of the subject matter. If parts of it come across as blasphemous, hopefully it's at least clear that it's intended in a spirit of honest, respectful inquiry.

Here's the essay. If anyone reads it, hope you find it interesting!
"God is the creator of all things and omniscient. "

"God graced us with the one thing He could never know: the liberation of uncertainty, ambiguity, growth and potential. "

That seems a bit inconsistent.
 
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xandaca

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"God is the creator of all things and omniscient. "

"God graced us with the one thing He could never know: the liberation of uncertainty, ambiguity, growth and potential. "

That seems a bit inconsistent.
The idea is that if you are omniscient and know everything, there's no room to grow or discover new things. Thus, by allowing human beings the opportunity to exist outside paradise and be flawed/sinful, it gives the possibility of change and growth that is impossible in a perpetually flawless idyll. In doing so (I don't think I put this in the essay), it makes their faith more genuine as they have discarded the choice to NOT have faith.

Really appreciate your reading and thoughts, thanks!
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Bless the Lord, O my soul.
Blessed art Thou, O Lord.
My Lord, Thou art very great.
Blessed art Thou, O Lord.

Thou art clothed with honor and majesty.
Blessed art Thou, O Lord.
The waters stand upon the mountains.
Marvelous are Thy works, O Lord.

The waters flow between the hills.
Marvelous are Thy works, O Lord.
In wisdom hast Thou made all things.
Glory to Thee,
O Lord, who hast created all, created all.




Have mercy upon me, O God,
According to Your lovingkindness;
According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
Blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
And cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
4 Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight—
That You may be found just when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.

5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me hear joy and gladness,
That the bones You have broken may rejoice.
9 Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners shall be converted to You.

14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
The God of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
15 O Lord, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

18 Do good in Your good pleasure to Zion;
Build the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then You shall be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness,
With burnt offering and whole burnt offering;
Then they shall offer bulls on Your altar.
 

SketchyGamerMan

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It's really cool we can discuss religion of this site. I grew up into Christianity and drew away from it as teenager because It's not a religion that embraces science and it tries to turn guilt and fear into a virtue. Now as a Buddhist I've come to appreciate the new testament and Jesus's teachings. It's very similar to the Buddha's views in a lot of ways. I think that's why it has survived and propagated throughout the ages outside of the whole fear of hell thing. Jesus was wise man and a great role model. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.
 

Helscream

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This morning I scribbled an essay ruminating on the Problem of Evil (aka: how can a just, all-powerful God and evil co-exist) and how it relates to the story of Adam and Eve (via William Blake and Milton's Paradise Lost/Regained). I'm not a religious person - I have faith, but it's very personal - and certainly no Biblical scholar, so if anyone's interested in reading through it and giving thoughts from a more knowledgeable Christian perspective, I'd be fascinated to read them. My blog has no ads or monetisation (it basically exists for me to get thoughts out of my head and to keep writing) so I won't be gaining anything from your reading other than (hopefully) a richer understanding of the subject matter. If parts of it come across as blasphemous, hopefully it's at least clear that it's intended in a spirit of honest, respectful inquiry.

Here's the essay. If anyone reads it, hope you find it interesting!
I read through your essay. While I don't agree completely with your assessment of the topics mentioned, you seem to do a well enough job at articulating your thoughts. Meaning I can (hopefully) offer a more detailed perspective from a Biblical Worldview. My personal views may or may not reflect the collective thought of GAF memers who participate in this thread. So the following response is coming from someone who takes a more literal approach to the Bible and attempts to use the information within the Bible itself to define its context.

Many of the values we hold most precious in Western society are, in a straight reading of the story, Satanic and self-destructive. The serpent convinces Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, which shatters their blissful ignorance by giving them self-consciousness and awareness of the existence of evil in the world. For their curiosity and acquisition of forbidden knowledge, they are cast out of paradise but set free in the real world.
Western Society strives closer to Atheist/Secular world view. When we look at how the science's are valued by western society people tend to think this approach more logical and reasonable. Logic, Reason, and Knowledge are themselves idolized and worship. We think this is new, but it is ancient. For example look at the Greco-Roman civilizations, the practice of Philosophy (Which is the combination of one of the four greek words for love Philia. And the Goddess of Wisdom Sophia) the literal love or dare I say "worship of wisdom". Atheism is popular because man no longer needs to heed to a High Power, man himself has become the idol of worship.

Men since ancient times has always desired to worship something, something to idolize. We see this everywhere even in the modern age. The Bible tells us that the Creator is the only Being that is worthy of worshiping. All of creation reflects the majesty of its Creator, and in kind all of mankind (as well as angels) have built into their very nature the ability and desire to worship. This perversion of the original intent of worship is satanic, in that Satan himself was the first to manifest this perversion.

The Bible states that Eve was deceived by the serpent, yet Adam sinned knowingly. This should raises questions as to the where abouts of Adam when the serpent approached Eve. When Adam discovered Eve, she was already fallen. This enforces the cowardice and deceptive nature of Satan, as he had to wait for Adam's absence. Adam did not have to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He could have left Eve to her fate, yet Adam loved Eve so much he would rather join Eve in her predicament than exist with her. (This is a powerful message. Just as Jesus loved humanity so much, He would rather come to earth and join us in our predicament, than exist without us).

This sentiment that Adam and Eve lived in blissful ignorance and through the the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they obtained forbidden knowledge is an idea born of Biblical illiteracy. Adam and Eve were made perfect in their day. They had a literal 1 to 1 connection to the Creator Himself. God walked amongst Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. They were eternal, immortal, and clothed in glory. Had they had any need, God Himself would have provided. Would you not ask questions to a omniscient being if He lived among you? This is the lie of the Serpent "Hath God Said?" out of hatred towards God and His creation he has caused mankind to enter into a state of entropy. For the sake of clarity, I am not targeting your statement, but the sentiment as a whole that is popular amongst some circles of thought.

Was this a test, to see if His creations were pure enough to ignore temptation? Did God give humanity the capacity to act independently of his instruction as a way of verifying the purity of their devotion? This interpretation seems incompatible with His divine omniscience: to know the answer to a test beforehand means it was never a test at all. If God's knowledge is more multi-dimensional, knowing the outcome of all possible decisions without his creations being specifically designed to choose any single one, but all ultimately ending up at the same point - the events of Revelation - there seems to be a specificity to His design, encouraging one course of events even if not necessarily enforcing it.
Mankind was created in the Image of YHVH. YHVH has many attributes, one of those being sovereign free will. For mankind to be authentic "Imagers" of the Creator, we also must exhibit certain attributes. If mankind could not exhibit free will, then we would not be the "image" of the Creator.

Foreknowledge does NOT necessitate predestination. For example in 1 Samuel 23 it details the foreknowledge of an event God knew of, yet this event did not occur. Just because God is all knowing simply means He has full knowledge of all possible outcomes, but that does not mean He predestines everything that does happen. Some events God has predestined, some events He has not predestined.

To question if God would manufacture a test to discover whether or not His creations were pure would be to assume that God has to experiment to make discoveries about his creations. A test like this would mean the God of the Bible is not omniscient and omnipotent as He describes Himself. It would also mean the God of the Bible is a liar. If this was the case, there would be no point any heeding anything that is written in scripture.

These questions often form part of what is referred to as The Problem Of Evil. For me, reconciling the existence of God with the existence of 'evil' represents no problem at all. The Adam and Eve story is not about a fall, but a spiritual awakening into awareness of the duality and consubstantiality of 'good' and 'bad' in the fabric of existence. In literal terms, God intended Adam and Eve to meet the serpent, eat from the fruit and free themselves. By understanding suffering, they later ascended through Jesus into a new kind of freedom, both self-aware and within God's grace, rising above Satan, whose own fall only deepened his spite and sense of unjust persecution.
With God's foreknowledge, He deemed it preferable for mankind to have free will than simply be non-sentient automatons. Freedom and being a Imager of God are inseparably linked. To lack free will would remove our very likeness of our own Creator. Mankind was created to be God's viceroy over creation, to be good stewards and partake in overseeing creation with our Creator. Mankind must exhibit the attributes of our Creator to fulfill this role and maintain that status. Even with Sin entering into the world, God still uses it for good and for His glory. Through our separation from God, mankind is able to learn of forgiveness, judgement, and redemption.

If God created and knows everything, He created the 'bad' as well as the 'good'. If humans were created in His image, we are creators too, but unlike our Creator, unshackled from the burdens of absolutism and all-knowledge. God's existence is pure by nature of His totality, immortal and unchanging. He is perfect, but in his perfection, unfree. If it is the ambition of any parent to give their children a better life than they had, God graced us with the one thing He could never know: the liberation of uncertainty, ambiguity, growth and potential.
Once again, God in His foreknowledge deemed it preferable to grant His creation free will. Satan made a choice to turn against God as well as the angels that would joined him. Adam and Eve though lied and deceived to, made a choice.

To describe God as being unfree, burdened with absolutism and knowledge is a sentiment that the Bible simply does not share. If God is unfree, than He is not sovereign, for God to be "burdened" would insinuate He has a struggle to contend with.

It is true there are things cannot do. He cannot lie, He cannot learn. Yet this does not mean He cannot comprehend what mankind experiences. Jesus Himself came to earth to redeem all of humanity. In doing this He had to contend with all the flaws and shortcomings of humanity. To say God could not "know" the issues that mankind has to contend with does not match the Biblical narrative. That He graced us with the gift of unique human experiences, when it is simply just a reality of mankind's state of entropy. You seem sincere in your expression, but I would disagree.

The moral characteristics that Blake and Milton attributed to Satan were correctly interpreted but misapplied. Satan, symbolising the revolutionary defiance of authority, is not a moral force in and of himself, but rather a means by which we are freed to forge our own futures. As individuals and as a human race, we are as flawed as we are beautiful, as capricious as we are constant and as kind as we are cruel. In the most divine of existential contradictions, our imperfections are what make us perfect.
Once again don't take this as a personal apprehension of your statement, but as a my attempt to address this ideology at large.

Going all the way from Saul Alinsky to Albert Pike, this is nothing more than a wicked perversion of the Biblical Narrative. The idea that Satan was the first glorious entity to rebel against the establishment. That serpent is not a representation of evil, sin, and wickedness but a symbol of freedom. That Lucifer the great liberator who freed humanity from the captivity from a vindictive God that kept mankind captive in the garden of Eden. Is such a absolute crock of shit.

Isaiah 14:12-16
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms


Ezekiel 28:12-19
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


Satan rebelled against God out of the wickedness of his own heart. Satan in his hatred of God and all of his creation desperately seeks to corrupt and destroy all. Thou he be the once great annointed cherub that coverth, he will be crushed and brought low before all creation. Satan is the ultimate foe of humanity. Not symbolically, literally.

Defiance of authority may be the popular thing in the context of recent events. The Bible tells us "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft ". Order, Governance, Authority, Law are the very core of the Kingdom of God. They are what give righteousness structure. Though the wickedness of mans heart can corrupt a system or government of a nation, the idea of authority exist is to reward the righteous and punish the wicked. If a system of authority has become evil, than it is mans duty to obey God and resist that tyranny.

Lastly I would argue if there is any beauty to be found in mankind, it is because we are still able to reflect the beauty of our Creator despite our flaws. The Bible does not paint a picture of self-glorification that people like to think of themselves. People like Steven Pinker would like to convince that humanity isn't so bad, and we are slowly evolving to a superior state of consciousnesses and virtue. Yet the Bible says the exact opposite. Mankind was perfect in the day we were created, but have fallen into a state of entropy. Physically, Spiritually, and morally mankind is devolving into a more and more dire state. And mankind is desperately in need of a redeemer to save us.

I hope I was able to properly understand your sentiment, and properly give you a accurate Biblical Narrative to what your essays discusses.

EDIT: Fixing Typos
 
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Almanac

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People like Steven Pinker would like to convince that humanity isn't so bad, and we are slowly evolving to a superior state of consciousnesses and virtue. Yet the Bible says the exact opposite. Mankind was perfect in the day we were created, but have fallen into a state of entropy. Physically, Spiritually, and morally mankind is devolving into a more and more dire state.
Steven Pinker has some good and valid points. The benefits of technological progress cannot be denied. Physically we live longer and healthier than ever before. Humanitarian ideals are superior to savage ideals/impulses.

It's just that we are stuck spiritually and psychologically.
 

xandaca

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I hope I was able to properly understand your sentiment, and properly give you a accurate Biblical Narrative to what your essays discusses.

EDIT: Fixing Typos
Thank you for reading and all the effort and the scope of thought you put into your response. Although my understanding of the Bible obviously fell some way short as a layperson, it's wonderful to be corrected by someone with in-depth knowledge. I had an pretty good idea that my conclusion was going to be at least partially blasphemous, which is in part why I posted it as, having never read/heard anyone express that particular interpretation before, I was curious if it held water or, as you helpfully explained, where it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of a knowledgeable reader. As mentioned in my first post, my faith and belief is very personal and not based on any one set of scriptures per se, so I try and understand where others find their faith to deepen my understanding, which is one of many reasons why replies such as yours are so valuable. I believe that mankind's flaws and our endeavours to overcome them are one part of what makes us special, which clearly influenced my rudimentary reading of the Adam & Eve story (afraid I'm also a fan of Steven Pinker!), so like I said, it's wonderful to have the understanding of someone more Biblically learned and of more traditional Christian faith. Thanks again!
 
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kevm3

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I've been seeing a lot of Jesus is returning soon videos popping up. I really do think now is the time to accept Jesus as Savior and get your life right before God
 
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Game Analyst

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Jesus was wise man and a great role model. I don't think anyone can disagree with that.
Nice to meet you, bro.

I think what separates Jesus' ethic of self-sacrifice and self-giving love is that His ethic transformed the Western world. Why? Because what Jesus taught was counter-cultural and had never been seen before by humanity. Here is just a small snipet of how Jesus' followers transformed culture:

"Early Christian philanthropy was deeply informed by the theological concept of the imago Dei, that humans were created in the image of God...The classical world had no religious or ethical impulse for individual charity...Christianity, on the other hand, insisted that the love of God required the spontaneous manifestation of personal charity towards one's brothers...Early Christians showed special concern for the protection of unborn and newborn life... the fetus was not only human but an eternal soul. Abortion was regarded by some as worse than murder...Christians also emphatically condemned suicide [regarding it as self-murder], which had been idealized in classical antiquity as a noble means of death...A fourth consequence was that the doctrine of the imago Dei led to a redefinition of the poor...No longer repulsive, they bring holiness and healing from spiritual diseases to those who touch them in order to assist them: "By taking the lepers' flesh in hand, those who minister to them participate in the divine immanence of creation that proceeds from the incarnate Son's essential sharing in both deity and cosmos." The new image of the poor did not reflect a Christian romanticizing of their condition. But it did constitute a challenge to the rich and powerful, who had traditionally claimed to merit a special relation with the gods in their role as patrons of the community." (Gary Ferngren, Professor of Greek and Roman History at Oregon State University)
Source: The Incarnation and Early Christian Philanthropy
 

Game Analyst

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Steven Pinker has some good and valid points. The benefits of technological progress cannot be denied. Physically we live longer and healthier than ever before. Humanitarian ideals are superior to savage ideals/impulses.
The problem for some like Pinker is that he does not want to admit or will not admit that his own morals and ethics (i.e., "humanitarian ideals") are borrowed from the Judeo-Christian worldview.

...Professor John Gray, former professor of European thought at the London School for Economics. In his book Straw Dogs, he launches a sustained attack on humanism from his convictions as a serious atheist. From there, he goes on to argue that morality is a convenience, a Christian myth. The initial conclusions he comes to, however, are so important to our theme that I would like to take the time to allow him to build his case, and I will try to summarize it using largely his own words...

Humanism is not science, but religion — the post-Christian faith that humans can make a world better than any in which they have so far lived. (Dogs, xiii)

Christians understood history as a story of sin and redemption. Humanism is the transformation of this Christian doctrine of salvation into a project of universal emancipation. The idea of progress is a secular version of the Christian belief in providence. . . . The idea of progress rests on the belief that the growth of knowledge and the advance of the species go together — if not now, then in the long run. (Ibid., xiii–xiv)

Darwin showed that humans are like other animals, humanists claim they are not. Humanists insist that by using our knowledge we can control our environment and flourish as never before. In affirming this, they renew one of Christianity’s most dubious promises — that salvation is open to all. The humanist belief in progress is only a secular version of this Christian faith. In the world shown us by Darwin, there is nothing that can be called progress. (Ibid., 4)

Modern humanism is the faith that through science humankind can know the truth — and so be set free. But if Darwin’s theory of natural selection is true this is impossible. The human mind serves evolutionary success, not truth. To think otherwise is to resurrect the pre-Darwinian error that humans are different from all other animals. . . . Darwinian theory tells us that an interest in truth is not needed for survival or reproduction. More often it is a disadvantage. Deception is common among primates and birds. . . . Truth has no systematic evolutionary advantage over error. Quite to the contrary, evolution will select for a degree of self-deception, rendering some facts and motives unconscious so as not to betray — by the subtle signs of self-knowledge — the deception being practiced. . . . In the struggle for life, a taste for truth is a luxury — or else a disability. (Ibid., 27)

Among Christians the cult of personhood may be forgiven. For them, everything of value in the world emanates from a divine person, in whose image humans are made. But once we have relinquished Christianity the very idea of the person becomes suspect. (Ibid., 58)
Source: Courage, Christ, and Finishing the Mission

 
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#Phonepunk#

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"God is the creator of all things and omniscient. "

"God graced us with the one thing He could never know: the liberation of uncertainty, ambiguity, growth and potential. "

That seems a bit inconsistent.
It’s not. If God created all things then of course he would create things like this.At any rate you seem to be imposing limits on God via misuse of the word “omniscient”. You don’t see why knowing everything would make it hard to be uncertain?

I always find it funny when people try to use that to argue against God doing something. Usually it’s a simple thing a human can do which makes it even funnier.

To me the concept of God’s omnipotence means he sees and creates all possibilities. Bit like how things work on the quantum level. A particle can have both positive and negative spin, we see “inconsistencies” in the natural world.

It’s just always funny to hear the argument over and over again. “If God is all knowing and all powerful then why evil?” or “If God is all knowing and all powerful then why did he do this?” Like lol because he is all powerful. Literally anything you can think of he can do.

It’s funny tho. Like an ant trying to talk a human out of quantum physics.
 
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Almanac

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problem for some like Pinker is that he does not want to admit or will not admit that his own morals and ethics (i.e., "humanitarian ideals") are borrowed from the Judeo-Christian worldview.
I haven't read much of him, but yes, that would be a narrow minded conclusion. Humanitarian ideals most certainly stem from judeo-christian (as well as other religions) worldview.
I would propose it's a combination of mentioned worldviews and the most wondrous capacity of the brain to adept and make sense of the world.
I think it's the best thing on offer (for someone who isn't a believer.)
 

Helscream

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Steven Pinker has some good and valid points. The benefits of technological progress cannot be denied. Physically we live longer and healthier than ever before. Humanitarian ideals are superior to savage ideals/impulses.

It's just that we are stuck spiritually and psychologically.
From the material I have seen Steven Pinker is intelligent and sincere. While I don't have a issue with him or any other person of his station. There is a popular sentiment that is shared amongst intellectual circles that does not fit the Biblical Narrative. The idea that mankind is becoming better, that we are evolving slowly towards something better is the exact opposite of what the Bible tells us. The Bible is very clear in describing the predicament humanity is in since Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden. We are in a state of entropy and will not be restored until a Savior comes to redeem humanity from its fall.

Thank you for reading and all the effort and the scope of thought you put into your response. Although my understanding of the Bible obviously fell some way short as a layperson, it's wonderful to be corrected by someone with in-depth knowledge. I had an pretty good idea that my conclusion was going to be at least partially blasphemous, which is in part why I posted it as, having never read/heard anyone express that particular interpretation before, I was curious if it held water or, as you helpfully explained, where it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of a knowledgeable reader. As mentioned in my first post, my faith and belief is very personal and not based on any one set of scriptures per se, so I try and understand where others find their faith to deepen my understanding, which is one of many reasons why replies such as yours are so valuable. I believe that mankind's flaws and our endeavours to overcome them are one part of what makes us special, which clearly influenced my rudimentary reading of the Adam & Eve story (afraid I'm also a fan of Steven Pinker!), so like I said, it's wonderful to have the understanding of someone more Biblically learned and of more traditional Christian faith. Thanks again!
I wouldn't consider your approach blasphemous. Its more of less a thought experiment/exercise from a outsiders perspective. Blasphemy is better describes as taking what the Bible actually says and deliberately perverting it. Like Albert Pike describing Lucifer as a great liberator of humanity.

There are plenty of people in academia that approach the Bible from a outsiders perspective/secular mindset and try and make some sense of it. So I think I understand your approach and how you come to your conclusion regarding Biblical material. Don't take my reply as a apprehension of "you are wrong heathen!". Look at it more of a comparison of this is how the secular worldview tries to understand the Bible vs What does the Bible say about itself with the knowledge within the scriptures alone.

I try to do my part to help give people a clearer authentic interpretation of what the Bible actually says and follow that logical from Genesis to Revelation. Hopefully I was of some service.
 

Almanac

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The idea that mankind is becoming better, that we are evolving slowly towards something better is the exact opposite of what the Bible tells us.
I would agree with that. We have'nt essentially evolved psychologically and spiritually.

The Bible is very clear in describing the predicament humanity is in since Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden.
I rather take it to be a metaphor. That mankind was created with the potential to be perfect. But he constantly fails to fullfill his potential. Otherwise Adam and Eve would not be able to fail God (if created perfect). Well, its at least how I understand it.

I don't think that the entropy-theorie is right. That mankind doesn't evolve fundamentally, doesn't necessarily imply that it degenerates. It may also implie that we are stuck.
 
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I would propose it's a combination of mentioned worldviews and the most wondrous capacity of the brain to adept and make sense of the world. I think it's the best thing on offer (for someone who isn't a believer.)
Here is an atheist's take on this subject:


Here is an agnostic's take:

 
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#Phonepunk#

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Even if you do not “believe in God” you should be at the very least intellectually curious about Christianity. The first book ever printed in mass was the Bible. Itself a collection of various older stories and traditions, a melting pot of ideas.

You can trace the IRL history across time and throughout the millennia. Ancient Rome and the Christians being a literal underground movement that is being violently stamped out by the state who demands adherence to the official idols. To me that initial spark in the early martyr movements where people were tortured and commanded to speak praise of Roman idols is so powerful in depicting the resilience of a minority in the face of extreme repression. Many of these original Christians died for their beliefs, being tortured into swearing off God, which they refused to do, instead they stood strong on that rock, finding SOME solace and peace and solidarity in those last horrifying moments.

The Golden Legend: Readings of the Saints was a popular work during the medieval ages, and it details the lore of the many original martyred saints of the Church. “Remember their names!” imo is required reading for understanding the early roots and the trials of the saints. in this mostly irl historical context the suffering of Jesus makes much more sense. It was an era of such suffering.

You can see how they would identify with the Jewish people, who also have long been an oppressed minority, and whose faith and traditions are what held them together, strengthening their community bond.

Yet somewhere along the line that cult went mainstream. One day Rome was torturing Christians in the Catherine Wheel and another day Constantine has found Jesus and made it into the first multi media global IP. Like modern IP it was used in service of capitalist imperialism and endless war. Modern culture is anti-Christian, it is built on Christian moral foundation but as it is a disbeliever all the symbols and stories are perverted. This is why culture is so focused on destruction right now. Christianity is about Creation, it’s what the very first book is about. Destruction (Consumerism) is anti Christian imo and it is sadly the current cultural mode.
 
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Helscream

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I would agree with that. We have'nt essentially evolved psychologically and spiritually.
I think "morality" would be a more appropriate choice of words instead of "psychologically". The predicament mankind finds itself in is not a psychological issue, it is a issue of the heart. If psychology has accomplished anything, it has tried to rationalize away the problem of sin. When people witness someone doing something utterly repugnant we think they must have a mental issue. No sane person would ever do [Insert Evil Action], clearly they must have a mental problem. This does not fit the Biblical Narrative. The problem of sin and the condition of the human heart is severe.

What does the Bible say about the human heart?

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
(In the Hebrew translation it states that the heart of man is "incurably wicked". )

Instead of healing the human heart, God instead will give man a new heart.

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.



I rather take it to be a metaphor. That mankind was created with the potential to be perfect. But he constantly fails to fullfill his potential. Otherwise Adam and Eve would not be able to fail God (if created perfect). Well, its at least how I understand it.
While I understand why you would think this way. You are mixing up Adam and Eve being created perfect versus their ability to have free will and make a choice. If Adam and Eve were not able to make a choice to disobey God then they would not have free will and not be Imagers of God. Satan himself was created perfect, yet still turned against God.

I don't think that the entropy-theorie is right. That mankind doesn't evolve fundamentally, doesn't necessarily imply that it degenerates. It may also implie that we are stuck.
Mankind is on a crash course to utter destruction. We are in a state of entropy, and if left alone we would eventually perish.

Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Without the deliberate intervention of God, mankind is simply doomed.

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.


The Apostle Paul tells use in his writings that even all of creation eagerly awaits the day of redemption. When mankind fell all of creation became fallen. God appointed mankind as viceroys of creation, and because of Adam and Eve's sin all of creation has suffered because of it.

You can even look at books like Revelation that specifically cover prophecy of the End Times. They all describe a world in utter chaos.

If you wish to see a more scientific approach I would recommend you look up the works of Dr. John C. Standford. He wrote a book titled "Genetic Entropy" back in March of 2008.
 
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Almanac

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I think "morality" would be a more appropriate choice of words instead of "psychologically". The predicament mankind finds itself in is not a psychological issue, it is a issue of the heart. If psychology has accomplished anything, it has tried to rationalize away the problem of sin. When people witness someone doing something utterly repugnant we think they must have a mental issue. No sane person would ever do [Insert Evil Action], clearly they must have a mental problem. This does not fit the Biblical Narrative. The problem of sin and the condition of the human heart is severe.

What does the Bible say about the human heart?

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
(In the Hebrew translation it states that the heart of man is "incurably wicked". )
Very, very insightful. Thank you mate.

If the human heart itself is the origin of all suffering it would have enormous implications. The dilemma of the 'original sin' is rarely addressed by science/psychology. As I understand it, the tabula rasa theorie is still the 'gold standard'.

My understandings of the bible are mostly rooted in the new testament.
I only once read the old testament, but it was always considered somewhat outdated and superseded by the teachings of Jesus. Well, at least within the church and the people I grew up with.
 
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If psychology has accomplished anything, it has tried to rationalize away the problem of sin.
You are not the first person to spot this.

"For several decades we psychologists looked upon the whole matter of sin and moral accountability as a great incubus and acclaimed our liberation from it as epoch making. But at length we have discovered that to be free in this sense, that is, to have the excuse of being sick rather than sinful, is to court the danger of also becoming lost. This danger is, I believe, betokened by the widespread interest in existentialism, which we are presently witnessing. In becoming amoral, ethically neutral and free, we have cut the very roots of our being, lost our deepest sense of selfhood and identity, and with neurotics, themselves, we find ourselves asking, “Who am I, what is my deepest destiny, what does living mean?” (Professor and psychologist Hobart Mowrer, “Sin, the Lesser of Two Evils,” American Psychologist, 1960)
 
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Helscream

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Very, very insightful. Thank you mate.

If the human heart itself is the origin of all suffering it would have enormous implications. The dilemma of the 'original sin' is rarely addressed by science/psychology. As I understand it, the tabula rasa theorie is still the 'gold standard'.

My understandings of the bible are mostly rooted in the new testament.
I only once read the old testament, but it was always considered somewhat outdated and superseded by the teachings of Jesus. Well, at least within the church and the people I grew up with.
The problem with psychology is that mankind is naive enough to think that with time and proper study all the "problems" of human behavior can be solved. If this were the case, man could fix himself and not need a Savior.

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The Old and New Testament are interconnected. You simply cannot have one without the other. In the book of Hebrews it says "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. "

Jesus is quite literally "The Word". The Volume of the Books of the Old Testament are written of Him. Once you read the Old Testament with that mindset, practically every page will jump out at you. The Old and New Testament are interconnected. You simply cannot have one without the other.

You are not the first person to spot this.

"For several decades we psychologists looked upon the whole matter of sin and moral accountability as a great incubus and acclaimed our liberation from it as epoch making. But at length we have discovered that to be free in this sense, that is, to have the excuse of being sick rather than sinful, is to court the danger of also becoming lost. This danger is, I believe, betokened by the widespread interest in existentialism, which we are presently witnessing. In becoming amoral, ethically neutral and free, we have cut the very roots of our being, lost our deepest sense of selfhood and identity, and with neurotics, themselves, we find ourselves asking, “Who am I, what is my deepest destiny, what does living mean?” (Professor and psychologist Hobart Mowrer, “Sin, the Lesser of Two Evils,” American Psychologist, 1960)
David Hunt wrote a book Titled "Psychology and the Church: Critical Questions, Crucial Answers". Psychology is a poison within the church community that tries to solve peoples problems, yet completely neglects the word of God in the process. Its no wonder so many people are jacked up on prescription drugs and rarely seek out help from their own church community if they are a part of one.
 
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Video: Is rationality objective? | Alister McGrath, Mary-Jane Rubenstein and Paul Boghossian
"Reason was traditionally seen as the Enlightenment's great legacy and the origin of our success. Yet reason is increasingly derided as just the rhetorical bluster of the educated elite, typically powerful and male. Is rationality just the prejudiced claim of those who are sure they are right? Were we mistaken to think that reason drives progress? Or is it an unassailable and essential tool for social harmony and future flourishing? Oxford Intellectual Historian Alister McGrath, philosopher and author of Fear of Knowledge Paul Boghossian, and Professor of Religion and author of Strange Wonder Mary-Jane Rubenstein rethink our faith in rationality and reason." (6/22/20)

Racism: The solution will cost you everything--but the reward is unspeakable
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Could an underground church now emerge in Britain?
For this group, three thinkers are shaping post-Covid orthodoxy; C S Lewis, Jordan Peterson and Rod Dreher. Despite all the odds and the animosity of the ecclesiastical establishment, the stardom of C.S. Lewis continues to rise. His vision of a material universe as part of a greater cosmic reality is a magnificent catharsis to plague and riots. His message is as relevant now as it was around the time of the Second World War, when his Mere Christianity talks were broadcast to a tired and deflated audience.
Christians Must Resist Woke Gaslighting
Christians need to be willing to stand up and name this kind of rhetoric for what it is: gaslighting. As a thought experiment, consider if a Christian minister stood up and preached that all Christian adults need to ask the Holy Spirit to identify the pedophilia in our hearts. Consider if he responded to the congregational backlash by saying “Oh, I see, so you admit that you’re a sinner, just not THAT kind of sinner. This is the sin of pride. Let me be clear: you are more of a pedophile than Jesus.” Hopefully, anyone could see that such a sermon would be disturbingly manipulative. But the pattern is the same.
God’s Infinite Perfection
The holiness of God is not to be conceived of as one attribute among others; it is rather a general term representing the conception of His consummate perfection and total glory. It is His infinite moral perfection crowning His infinite intelligence and power.
Riots, Political Subversion, and the Communist Agitator’s Playbook: A Lesson From History
In 1952, in an epic showdown with communist hardliners, America learned a difficult lesson as the whole world watched — but it did learn.
Video: Peter Hitchens | Regime Change in Europe and the US
Peter Hitchens joins Eric in the bunker from Oxford, England, and warns of the coming "regime change," here and in Europe, due to the fact that the Left controls the levers of power.

Podcast: Objection! "The Atonement is Unjust!"
Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is central to the Christian faith. The gospel message is that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins on the cross. Yet some object that Jesus’ substitution for us on the cross is unjust. How is it just for an innocent person to be punished in the place of the guilty? Abdu addresses this objection by pointing to legal principles showing how it can often be fair for an innocent person to take on the liability of another.
An Open Letter to My Christian Brothers and Sisters in Law Enforcement
...as a police officer, I am keenly aware of my humanity, including my human imperfections. As Christians, we know “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). All police officers, whether we are believers or not, know the depravity of the human condition, including our human condition. And we all know how hard it is to maintain our own “goodness” when we are surrounded by pain, suffering, and crime. So I have a degree of sympathy for police officers who go astray.
Video: Where You Stand Depends on Where You Sit | David French & Isaiah Drummond
Attorney, Journalist and Author, David French, in conversation with Stanford graduate student, Isaiah Drummond.
 
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Video: Why Do Christians Believe That Jesus Was God?
Many people think that Jesus of Nazareth was just a good man, a wise teacher of morals, or even a prophet. But Christians go further, claiming he was God’s own son, stepping into space and time to show us what God was really like. Why do Christians believe this? What’s the evidence that Jesus was more than just another religious teacher? In this packed episode of Short Answers, Solas Director Andy Bannister tackles arguably the most important question of all: who exactly was Jesus?

Video: Critical Race Theory with Dr. Neil Shenvi
Have you found yourself a bit confused by all the talk on Critical Race Theory, Identity Politics, Intersectionality, and terms of like manner? If so, join Bobby as he interviews apologist Dr. Neil Shenvi to discuss Critical Race Theory 101.

Video: Forum on Race: Social Justice, Systemic Racism, and White Privilege with Samuel Sey
Our second week of the Open Forum on Race. On this episode we have Samuel Sey, writer and speaker who addresses social justice, systemic racism, and white privilege.

America's Jews and Christians Are Failing the Test of Their Lives
So, why the silence? Why aren't all rabbis, priests and pastors telling their congregations and telling America -- in tweets, on Facebook, in letters to the editor, on television and radio, in opinion pieces -- that there is one race, the human race, and that the only antidote to racism is to deny that race determines our worth, not to affirm its significance?
Jordan Peterson: The activists are now stalking the hard scientists
A highly cited professor of physics, who I cannot name, at a university I cannot name either (suffice it to say that the former has garnered 100+ publications and 7000+ citations in a highly technical field) had his standard Canadian Federal grant application rejected because he had failed to sufficiently detail his plans to ensure diversity, inclusivity and equity (DIE) practices while conducting his scientific inquiry. It is now standard practice for university hiring boards to insist that their faculty job applicants submit a DIE plan with their curriculum vitae — a terribly dangerous occurrence of its own.
Your Woke Breaking Point
If you had told me 10 years ago that same-sex marriage meant Christian bakers being legally required to bake cakes for same-sex weddings, I, or any supporter of marriage equality, would have dismissed this as conservative propaganda, too silly to even bother refuting. Probably someone did tell me that, at some point; probably I laughed and said, “Come on.” Then, shortly after the Supreme Court ruled, activists began declaring that of course those bakers had to bake those cakes. Privately, one heard from a lot of same-sex marriage advocates who thought this went too far. But publicly, they found other things to talk about. And so the default position on the left became exactly the sort of thing that everyone had declared would never happen.
The Great Awokening and the Second American Revolution
“Imagine a country with a new constitution, anthem, and flag, its name changed from the sinful “America” to something less tainted. Far-fetched? Not according to data I have collected on what liberal white Americans actually believe.”
 

V4skunk

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I'm not religious but the old testament KJV has some crazy stories describing advanced technology like flying machines and directed energy weapons etc...
 
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