I think it's more like - if the Pro existed for longer, they would have pushed the limits to cripple it as well.
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Cinemassacre: PS4 vs Pro Comparison
- Thread starter Renekton
- Start date
I think it's more like - if the Pro existed for longer, they would have pushed the limits to cripple it as well.
Back-In-Black
Banned
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but I can't predict how I might react to subconscious manipulation even if something is painfully obvious, that's the whole reason we call it "subconscious."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4RKUk3lYMY
Seems like a scientific experiment lolz, the day I care what the general public think about gaming is the day I stop gaming, ask the general public a question about almost any hardware topic and your going to get x item is good enough over z item as the general public care little about specifics of any tech, they care about does it work well enough. The pro and the Scorpio arnt meant for your average consumer who buy two games a year they are meant for gaffers and those that care.
EventHorizon
Member
This was a very poorly done test. The interviewer knew which screen had the base PS4 and Pro behind them. Based on their prior video, they had shown a bias as to the outcome. This is a big no-no and a reason why double blind tests are the gold standard for doing these types of comparisons.
Then they committed another problem by having the viewers rate the consoles based on their appearance before doing the test. The Pro is not supposed to look better than the base PS4 just different, so that's what most people said. However forcing the viewer to state ahead of time that the consoles were the same, even though they were not judging image quality, makes them more likely to want to back up that initial assessment when they do judge image quality.
Finally 80% of the people did say they still could tell the difference. However while 90% said they didn't care, the test had the previous problems to bias this result. It also didn't appear that many of these people were that concerned about image quality in the first place. Remember once again that 80% did see a difference, they just did not care.
This is worthwhile test to do, but unless they are going to do it properly it is less than useless because it promotes unsubstantiated conclusions. Get back to me when they have a test that...
Then they committed another problem by having the viewers rate the consoles based on their appearance before doing the test. The Pro is not supposed to look better than the base PS4 just different, so that's what most people said. However forcing the viewer to state ahead of time that the consoles were the same, even though they were not judging image quality, makes them more likely to want to back up that initial assessment when they do judge image quality.
Finally 80% of the people did say they still could tell the difference. However while 90% said they didn't care, the test had the previous problems to bias this result. It also didn't appear that many of these people were that concerned about image quality in the first place. Remember once again that 80% did see a difference, they just did not care.
This is worthwhile test to do, but unless they are going to do it properly it is less than useless because it promotes unsubstantiated conclusions. Get back to me when they have a test that...
- Is double blind
- Judges only the image quality and doesn't show the consoles at all
- Uses people the Pro is actually targeting. Asking some of these people would be like asking me which abstract art painting was the best. (Hint: I could not care less and would just choose the cheapest option)
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Sorry, but this video was kind of useless. Not sure why they went through all that effort? To prove.. what?
The 'pro' is intended for core gamer audiences. It was never intended to sway people that game casually.
The 'pro' is intended for core gamer audiences. It was never intended to sway people that game casually.
I think its pretty useful. If you're a semi-casual gamer trying to decide between the PS4 and shelling out the extra cash for the Pro, it tells you you probably won't care and can save $100 (or spend it on a couple games).
I find this comment funny.
What would a double blind test change? We know what the differences should have been... 1080p vs. 1440p ~~ the video, as entertainment, combines a whole lot of biases anyway. If you did only a technical test, you could just show two images or anything rendered at 1440p or 1080p and ask them to pick. I think you have taken this video a bit too seriously. Thing is, the people who were asked were assuming they were supposed to be looking at 4K, which isn't even what the Pro is even doing here.
If you wanted to see how different 1440p and 1080p would be, have a go (1440p image is downscaled to 1080p):
Personally, I'm surprised they couldn't guess which one it was because the Pro was hooked up to a 4K (newer) screen.
That being said, the Pro does look kinda ugly.
Mike and Ryan did a video the other day on Mario 2 running on a new NES style system with HDMI, and they were talking about how clean the image looked over the game running on a regular NES. They can notice and appreciate that, but anything modern, woooahh no way.
Cinemassacre doing modern content is always very frustrating for me. I love them, but they are painfully ignorant and say stupid shit about things they don't understand.
Cinemassacre doing modern content is always very frustrating for me. I love them, but they are painfully ignorant and say stupid shit about things they don't understand.
It feels like there's almost no point trying to convince some people. There is an army of people who want upgraded consoles to flop, or are trying justify their base PS4 purchase decision.
Sorry about the 2 posts. I meant to edit the first one and wasn't thinking.
The Pro to me is more of a long game. I feel the games that are going to take advantage of it are the ones that spent more of their development time optimizing for it, and that's going to be games coming out 2017-2018. Not that we haven't already seen some examples of solid Pro support (haven't played it, but sounds like RotR does a good job there), but you expect things like Uncharted:The Lost Legacy will take more advantage of the Pro than Uncharted 4 did after the fact. The Pro 'advantage' for games releasing a year from now will be interesting to see.
EventHorizon
Member
The reason why you do a double blind test because it is known that the interviewer's bias will affect the results. That why such a thing as double blind tests exist, and like I said is the gold standard for this type of test.
You can't just do static image tests because differences in resolution show up in the motion of the video in addition to still images. (Edit: FYI First image is higher resolution. I could tell even on a 1080p monitor.) Btw the viewer did tell the difference 80% of the time, and both consoles were hooked up to new 4K TVs, so you are just wrong about that.
The only thing that came out the same in the test was that 90% of the people said they didn't care about the difference. That question tests as much about how much the person cares about image quality as how much of a change they saw. If you ask me if I'd pay more for one abstract art painting over another, I'd tell you no regardless if I like one a bit more than the other because I don't care about abstract art paintings. That gives you a meaningless result.
This was a poor test period, and would get laughed at by any scientific peer review. By your trying to defend it just proves your own bias.
they're not digital foundry who yogurt over a couple extra P or fps. their viewpoints often reflects the average consumer. they just want to play games and have fun.
I really don't think the results would have been much different if they had picked another game. The average person can barely tell the difference between the two. Especially not when they're not side-by-side. PS4 Pro is a console for enthusiasts and there's nothing wrong with that.
Caipirinha
Member
I'm frankly bored of this narrative now, it might have worried me back when I had my PS4 Pro pre-ordered but I have one.. and I have a 4K TV.. and the improvements on games with good implementation is enormous so... I don't really care anymore?
EventHorizon
Member
OMG, It's like listening to two old grandpas trying to figure out this new fangled video game thing. The thing is why would anybody listen to their opinion because they obviously aren't up to date with modern video games. For example, they thought that Godzilla game "looks great".
I agree, especially with games not designed with the Pro in mind during main development. Because of this I don't plan to upgrade my PS4 anytime soon. For one thing I'd rather get PSVR first.
While I agree with this sentiment, I don't think this was a worthwhile test. It doesn't capture the true weight difference the target audience gives between the base PS4 and Pro. That means that people who watch this actually know less than before they watched it.
The point is that they were asked if they thought it was WORTH $150 more. That's extremely subjective, there is no need to get scientific over it looking for objective answers. Sample size is small etc.
Anyway, it's harder to tell in motion. Not that it matters. You can't expect the casual customer to care soo much about 1440p over 1080p.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
That Godzilla video is infuriating. It is obviously they are playing it with a negative, jaded perspective and are constantly looking for things to complain/whine about. Why are they forcing that narrative so hard?
And why is the concept of PS Plus so foreign to them?
ChrisMahoney
Banned
Why would you be in the market for a new PS4 if you already have a PS4?
ChrisMahoney
Banned
James is not used to playing online or paying for online for that matter. He's always been a local co op type of person since his youth. When i said he doesn't play video games all that much these days, its really the case, unless its an old retro style game or something from his history.
He tried lords of shadow years ago cause he was a huge castlevania buff as a kid, and just could not get into it at all, the whole cinematic aspect of the game.
Mike has no excuse cause he plays online all the time and is used to playing modern games.
AVGN was during the entirety of the PS3/360 era, Mike was doing stuff as well but james missed literally the last 11 years of gaming growth. He has absolutely zero clue about online gaming, the death of split screen, or anything even remotely past the ps2 era. I remember back in 2007 James bought a ps3 as a blu ray player and then saying it doesn't look any better than a dvd ON A STANDARD DEF TV.
Oh no, they aren't forcing any narrative, they really are this thick. Plus with how their general personalities are, they aren't being this dickish on purpose either. From what posters here are saying Mike at least plays modern stuff but I don't know what he's issue for being so damn dumb here.
SlickShoes
Member
If you sit the same people down and done the same test on a PC you'd get the same results they won't be able to tell the difference mostly between a £400 PC and a £1000 PC
That doesn't make your purchase of a £1000 PC invalid or pointless.
It's like people don't want options, if Joe shmoe can't tell the difference then the product shouldn't exist is a terrible barometer for progress.
That doesn't make your purchase of a £1000 PC invalid or pointless.
It's like people don't want options, if Joe shmoe can't tell the difference then the product shouldn't exist is a terrible barometer for progress.
I feel like Mike and his cohorts are kind of being vindictive on purpose, i don't buy them being honestly disinterested like James is. He legitimately grew up and has a family to worry about and never really plays unless its for one of the James and Mike play segments. he's more into movie reviews and the other media content.
Mike still manages the gaming part of the channel himself and keeps up to date with general relevant gaming news, so there's no way for him to have an out in regards to being an old man.
Mike still manages the gaming part of the channel himself and keeps up to date with general relevant gaming news, so there's no way for him to have an out in regards to being an old man.
EventHorizon
Member
As I said, this is a meaningless comparison, but that is NOT how they are promoting it. For example they explicitly say that they "controlled for as many variables as we could". They are trying to give it some air of authenticity which it does not deserve. I simply pointed out where they fell short.
The hardware. Nobody is pushing the idea that the physical console is better looking than the base PS4 physical console. In fact because it has to have more stuff in it, it's perfectly reasonable, if not common sense, to assume that the Pro would not be as streamlined as the PS4 Slim. One example of how stupid a comparison this video was was that one of the people being tested questioned why the Pro weighed more and viewed that as a negative. Once again the Pro has more "stuff" (excuse the technical jargon) in it...DUH!!!!!
Huggers
Member
I love these guys but their last couple of more serious type videos have been dreadful. The review of the new Mega Drive missed by far and away the most important factor of that thing, the sound chip being borked. Everyone knows this but they didn't say a word about it. Now they do a PS4 Pro test, go to all this effort getting random people to sit in and then only show them one game! Very odd and poorly thought out videos imo
Some. Some may do that. Some would call Bullshit. Some would find the whole thing hilarious. It takes a village, ya know?
Edit: FWIW I'm in the hilarious camp. It's one video. It's not that serious.
Always-honest
Banned
I agree. It's for people who DO see the differences and appreciate them. The differences aren't that big. But make a big difference to some.
Leyasu
Banned
Agreed.
I would like to see a real Pepsi challenge with 10 games. A mix of patched/unpatched.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Ryan doesn't know what he's talking about though. Their last video had him saying "PS4 Pro only outputs at 2160p which is 2k not 4k."
butman
Member
HIGH DEF JEFF
Banned
One of the fruits in this video called the PS4 PRO a "catastrophe".
Seems like a couple of guys with an axe to grind.
Well, there it is.
Idiots.
Seems like a couple of guys with an axe to grind.
Well, there it is.
Idiots.
HIGH DEF JEFF
Banned
Yeah..in a part of the game that takes place at night in the rain.
Don't show them the Africa part that might not line up with their pre-determined outcome.
Dundar
Member
Maybe they should have had a U4 multiplayer comparison. They would recognize Pro footage as soon as it boots (900p VS 1080p), the boost in image clarity is pretty drastic.
In single player, on a 1080p screen, the difference is barely noticeable. I'm disappointed in ND, at the very least I was expecting improved shadows or motion blur on the Pro.
Anyway, some frame drops I remeber from the OG game are gone. Tested it yesterday and, much to my delight, they're gone.
In single player, on a 1080p screen, the difference is barely noticeable. I'm disappointed in ND, at the very least I was expecting improved shadows or motion blur on the Pro.
Anyway, some frame drops I remeber from the OG game are gone. Tested it yesterday and, much to my delight, they're gone.
If I wanted a PS4 I'd pay the extra $100 and get a Pro to future proof it for a while. It's not worth saving $100 to shut you out of 1080p benefits in the short term and 4k benefits in the long term.
Bucket-o-roadkill
Member
Yeah it's this sort of shit that grinds my gears. If you don't know or understand something, it's not a crime, but if you're gonna spout shit preaching to people like you know what's up, at least Google something before you get it completely wrong. Beyond ignorance.
Stoffinator
Member
There is a video with these two as well when the Pro came out. Most of their information wasn't even right. They didn't even name the specs of the Pro right.