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[RocknRola]

I specifically said I'm all for taking action and don't want it to get worse.

I just find it weird that if it gets to the point where progress isn't being made, lots of people seem to be worrying about their own situation. It's anxiety over something that won't impact you - spend time worrying about something more immediate instead that you have control over.

How won't I be impacted by this? In case you're not sure my country, Portugal, is 50% maritime coast. Not to mention we also have two archipelagos as part of our territory. It will impact me in one way or the other.

 

[Captain Smoker]

This is so fucking stupid.


But a few thoughts:

Renewable energy is going to get more and more market share, despite the dumb efforts of Trump and his companions. The transition is probably "just" going to slow down instead of vanishing.

Furthermore, if China, Russia and India decrease their emissions they can compensate potential, rising US-emissions.


Any thoughts?

 

[ClosingADoor]

I notice a lot of people lately - not just on GAF - seem to get into hysterics about this and act as if global warming is going to kill them.

We'll all be dead before anything happens - It's not worth worrying about.

We should of course try to minimise the damage, I 'believe' in global warming and don't want us to speed up the destruction of society as we know it, but if we can't then don't lose sleep over it because it's not going to kill you.

Bit different if you have kids, admittedly.

Let's say people here are in their 20s. That is about 50-60 more years to live. So until 2076 or so. You really think in that time climate change has no impact on them? We are already seeing small island nations disappearing, we see more extreme weather events around the globe, droughts in areas leading to suffering that will only increase. My country is mostly under the current sea level. Every increase is a danger to millions of people here.

Then that's fine.

But lots of people - on FB especially - seem to think that they'll be drowning in 10 years. That type of mentality doesn't help anyone, let alone themselves.

That is good, since then they might actually vote now for people who do give climate change a priority. Make it a real voting issue and have people put pressure everywhere they can to make the necessary changes. Better today then tomorrow.

Hopefully so. Though that usually happens when the big countries need to implement it; ie implementing fiber optics (internet) on Texas alone would contribute towards that (decreasing costs and more know-how) a lot more than implementing in the entirety of Portugal. Size matters in these things too.

True. But the EU is more then small countries. Germany is building renewables like crazy also. France a bit less I guess since they are happy on nuclear (also more then fine by me, if that is the needed in between towards total renewable). If you can get Germany, France, Benelux and the Nordics on renewables, that is already a huge amount of people covered.

 

[sammyCYBORG]

What if some people want to put the general interest ahead of their personal, immediate gain? Just a crazy thought.

Then that's fine.

But lots of people - on FB especially - seem to think that they'll be drowning in 10 years. That type of mentality doesn't help anyone, let alone themselves.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I specifically said I'm all for taking action and don't want it to get worse.

I just find it weird that if it gets to the point where progress isn't being made, lots of people seem to be worrying about their own situation. It's anxiety over something that won't impact you - spend time worrying about something more immediate instead that you have control over.

We are already experiencing it in the present day.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I am not American, but I really hope if Trump and his lackeys really goes down this path that they will get strong condemnations from other world leaders and that USA gets severe sanctions from the rest of the world unless they change their ways. You want to fuck up your country by electing an inept incompetent bumbling idiot is one thing, but with your countrys pick you're now actually threatening the future of the whole planet and billions of people in the process. The world cannot stand idly by and wait for US to get out of their backward, conspiratorial, anti-science bubble. The world is slowly dying each day and if we don't act now it's going to be too late!

I am just so sad and furious that we're losing decades of progress, and we can do nothing but watch helplessly as it unfolds.

We don't have to sit by idly. If things get bad enough, we must do something. Whatever is necessary, in fact.

 

[Nocebo]

I notice a lot of people lately - not just on GAF - seem to get into hysterics about this and act as if global warming is going to kill them.

We'll all be dead before anything happens - It's not worth worrying about.

Jokes on you, things are already happening. People are already being displaced by floods due to rising sea level. I'm pretty sure you didn't know this unless by "we" you mean yourself and those around you or you're omniscient and know that no one on gaf lives on an island or other areas that are already affected...

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

 

[the1npc]

What if some people want to put the general interest ahead of their personal, immediate gain? Just a crazy thought.

yep climate change is happening right now. get ready for more droughts and food shortages

 

[Muppet of a Man]

This is so fucking stupid.


But a few thoughts:

Renewable energy is going to get more and more market share, despite the dumb efforts of Trump and his companions. The transition is probably "just" going to slow down instead of vanishing.

Furthermore, if China, Russia and India decrease their emissions they can compensate potential, rising US-emissions.


Any thoughts?

Since China is producing most of today's cheap photovoltaic panels, add a 35% tariff to that, and solar will no longer be competitive with fossil fuels economically (at least in the short term).

Trump would seriously fuck shit up that way, especially since he has no plan to subsidize the production of solar panels here in the US.

 

[Amalthea]

I am not American, but I really hope if Trump and his lackeys really goes down this path that they will get strong condemnations from other world leaders and that USA gets severe sanctions from the rest of the world unless they change their ways.

The problem is just how easily you can get Trump pissed off. It will be scary if he will take any form of international criticism as personal as he always does.

 

[exmachina64]

I really don't get this. Americans pride themselves on having the best universities in the world. But let's not believe them when they actually do what they are good at.

America's an anti-intellectual nation at its core. Any anti-intellectual American that prides themselves on America having the best universities does so in the abstract, the same way they believe America has the best roads, the best military and the most freedom. This is because they view America and its success or lack thereof as a zero-sum game. There is little benefit to cooperation and someone has to lose in order for someone else to win. They don't approve of what students may be studying at those schools: philosophy; political science; art -- useless degrees. On the other hand, they think students studying STEM at these "best universities in the world" are great and are creating jobs and wealth for America (at the expense of other countries).

 

[gamechanger87]

So can someone explain to me how the US is concedeing the climate change fight to China? China is the worlds largest producer of greenhouse gases and has shown for decades that they would rather salt the earth than put any speed bumps in the way of their "growth engine". Their record of environmental disasters is depressing. On top of this, they are arguing for less transparency in the Paris Agreement so that no outside sources can doubt the numbers their government produces about how they are reducing their environmental impact. This they can make up numbers about their reductions while doing none of the sort. They already do this on the economy.

Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks China has any interest in actually being a climate change leader?

 

[aspiegamer]

So this will be at complete odds with The Pentagon, who rates climate change as our top long-term national security risk.

Wonder how fast the decline of the US is going to be. Think we can milk another 20-30 years out of this before I start to go senile? One would hope the world will give us one last chance to undo all of Trump's stuff with the next President. Though realistically the planet cannot collectively give us the proper shit we deserve while we have an intimidating aircraft carrier fleet and military bases all the hell over the place. It'll be fun watching various countries try to kick us out!

The anti-intellectualism that's so entrenched in GOP is... depressing. That's not even the right term! "Ignorant of basic facts" is more accurate in many cases. It makes the energy lobby just as dangerous to the planet as the NRA is to public safety, having total control of one party.

Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks China has any interest in actually being a climate change leader?

There's a ton of economic benefit both to China proper and exports it can send around the globe. It's also become a massive public health issue there. It's going to take awhile and there might even be a phase where China is simultaneous the world's largest green energy consumer and CO2 emitter. Their long-term plans for energy modernization are far more ambitious than anything in the US. Sort of like how the trajectory is inevitable on China becoming the world's largest economy, it's inevitable they'll have a majority clean energy system. Going to be decades of course, but it will happen. Also: Bragging rights. It's an area to utterly humiliate the US.

 

[Funky Papa]

So can someone explain to me how the US is concedeing the climate change fight to China? China is the worlds largest producer of greenhouse gases and has shown for decades that they would rather salt the earth than put any speed bumps in the way of their "growth engine". Their record of environmental disasters is depressing. On top of this, they are arguing for less transparency in the Paris Agreement so that no outside sources can doubt the numbers their government produces about how they are reducing their environmental impact. This they can make up numbers about their reductions while doing none of the sort. They already do this on the economy.

Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks China has any interest in actually being a climate change leader?

They see where the money is. Or more precisely, where will it be.

So this will be at complete odds with The Pentagon, who rates climate change as our top long-term national security risk.

Not for too long, I surmise.

 

[keuja]

Those people are dumb trash. Facts means nothing to these clowns.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Civil War II, no not the Marvel one.

That's a better alternative then fucking up the entire planet. I've said it once, and I'm going to repeat what I said again, I would rather have this country plunge into a civil war and be completely divided into smaller nations rather than dooming the rest of this planet because of Trump's idiocracy and the GOP's cartoon supervillainry. We either die a hero or we live long enough to see ourselves become the villain. That's where we will be soon enough.

 

[Gorger]

The problem is just how easily you can get Trump pissed off. It will be scary if he will take any form of international criticism as personal as he always does.

So be it. Let him get pissed of. USA must understand the consequence of their choice. He is abysmally unpopular in the rest of the world, and one of the most unfavorable elects in recent times. We cannot risk the future of the planet because we fear the tantrums of a 70-year old manchild.

 

[Jmanunknown]

I specifically said I'm all for taking action and don't want it to get worse.

I just find it weird that if it gets to the point where progress isn't being made, lots of people seem to be worrying about their own situation. It's anxiety over something that won't impact you - spend time worrying about something more immediate instead that you have control over.

This is wrong so many people like to just focus on the sea rise but their are other major effects of climate change. As the planet continues to get warmer the possibility of major storms increases super hurricanes, tornado's, typhoon's, tsunamis not to mention major heatwaves and droughts will effects peoples water supply's and lead to more wildfires. Theirs is also the effects of climate change on the food supply. This is not some far off thing its here now.

 

[Henrar]

The combination of lots of EU countries going all green will contribute to lower prices and more green infrastructure so other countries can easier follow. China is also doing a lot, but considering their size and energy needs they have a ton of coal of course. But at least they see the need to move forward.

The amount of anti-science climate change deniers is on the rise in Europe, so I wouldn't hope on EU going "all" green. Some countries will, others will fuck it up, because they see snow outside their windows, so climate change must be false.

 

[Snagret]

A very short-sighted position to take. Continuing to build the American empire on non-renewable energy is absolutely going to put this country in an extremely vulnerable position as world resources continue to dwindle and the climate becomes increasingly chaotic.

Not even mentioning the grave ripple effect this will have across the world. This is absolutely the scariest platform of Trump's administration.

 

[Captain Smoker]

So can someone explain to me how the US is concedeing the climate change fight to China? China is the worlds largest producer of greenhouse gases and has shown for decades that they would rather salt the earth than put any speed bumps in the way of their "growth engine". Their record of environmental disasters is depressing. On top of this, they are arguing for less transparency in the Paris Agreement so that no outside sources can doubt the numbers their government produces about how they are reducing their environmental impact. This they can make up numbers about their reductions while doing none of the sort. They already do this on the economy.

Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks China has any interest in actually being a climate change leader?

Because that's the future = money / energy independence / health


Furthermore, China is already the largest producer of clean energy and they're just going to increase their green energy output even more.

And knowing China, they're going to rush this process faster than anyone else.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Jokes on you, things are already happening. People are already being displaced by floods due to rising sea level. I'm pretty sure you didn't know this unless by "we" you mean yourself and those around you or you're omniscient and know that no one on gaf lives on an island or other areas that are already affected...

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I remember there was a poster who refused to believe there were rising hate crimes because he/she didn't personally see any in real life and didn't read any articles on it..

The poster you quoted reminds me of said.

 

[Funky Papa]

Energy independence is also tantamount to protecting your sovereignty down the line. And while China is all about that, America has seemingly forgotten about it.

 

[Nelo Ice]

That's a better alternative then fucking up the entire planet. I've said it once, and I'm going to repeat what I said again, I would rather have this country plunge into a civil war and be completely divided into smaller nations rather than dooming the rest of this planet because of Trump's idiocracy and the GOP's cartoon supervillainry. We either die a hero or we live long enough to see ourselves become the villain. That's the reality right now.

Hell I'd be up for full blown revolution. The GOP and Trump need to be overthrown if we want to save the planet. I cannot think of a single thing the GOP has done to help humanity and now they are a legit risk to earth and our very existence.

 

[ClosingADoor]

So can someone explain to me how the US is concedeing the climate change fight to China? China is the worlds largest producer of greenhouse gases and has shown for decades that they would rather salt the earth than put any speed bumps in the way of their "growth engine". Their record of environmental disasters is depressing. On top of this, they are arguing for less transparency in the Paris Agreement so that no outside sources can doubt the numbers their government produces about how they are reducing their environmental impact. This they can make up numbers about their reductions while doing none of the sort. They already do this on the economy.

Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks China has any interest in actually being a climate change leader?

Because they know that the current levels pollution are not sustainable for themselves. Look at their large cities and what is happening there. The leaders know that can only last so long until the population starts to get unhappy with it and becomes a threat to their position, certainly with a growing middle class.

China is also a growing energy market still. So they need to built new stuff, and renewables are getting cheaper for them then coal plants at this point, so why spent more then needed. And while their energy needs go up, so does the share of renewables there. They have been doubling their capacity for solar in recent years, if that rate continues they are on a good path for renewables to take over fossil fuels in the not so long term.

Quick look at Wikipedia shows an estimate of 12% of energy in the US for 2013 was renewable. For China that year it was 20%. 2014 was 23%. They are already on top there.

 

[sasliquid]

So can someone explain to me how the US is concedeing the climate change fight to China? China is the worlds largest producer of greenhouse gases and has shown for decades that they would rather salt the earth than put any speed bumps in the way of their "growth engine". Their record of environmental disasters is depressing. On top of this, they are arguing for less transparency in the Paris Agreement so that no outside sources can doubt the numbers their government produces about how they are reducing their environmental impact. This they can make up numbers about their reductions while doing none of the sort. They already do this on the economy.

Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks China has any interest in actually being a climate change leader?

China is much better per capita and has developed a lot in the past few years. It still has a lot of work to do but it's better than America especially atm.

Honestly the EU or smaller nations are a lot better than either

 

[Regulus Tera]

Please keep telling me how the Electoral College protects minorities from the tyranny of the majority when Kiribati is lying under the water

 

[Snagret]

This is wrong so many people like to just focus on the sea rise but their are other major effects of climate change. As the planet continues to get warmer the possibility of major storms increases super hurricanes, tornado's, typhoon's, tsunamis not to mention major heatwaves and droughts will effects peoples water supply's and lead to more wildfires. Theirs is also the effects of climate change on the food supply. This is not some far off thing its here now.

Yep, humans can survive a variety of environments, we're very adaptable creatures. Many animals survive by much more precarious ecosystems, though. Animals that we rely on to survive. It's like a jenga tower, pull out the "Bee" block and it won't matter if you're at the top, the entire thing is gonna come crashing down. Anybody who thinks America is immune to the famine and crumbling infrastructure many third-world countries endure is in for a rude awakening if we continue closing our eyes and putting our fingers in our ears to the world happening right outside our windows.

 

[Bisnic]

Does winter such as we know it has to stop existing for these idiots to start believing in climate change? Then they'll go "oops, sorry"?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Does winter such as we know it has to stop existing for these idiots to start believing in climate change?

Yes. They have been ignoring that winters around the world have actually been pretty colder throughout history then what we have seen over the least decade or so. But averages don't mean much if you already have a climate change denial agenda.

 

[Ensirius]

I wonder how fucked we really are going to be.

 

[RocknRola]

Does winter such as we know it has to stop existing for these idiots to start believing in climate change?

They won't understand that harsher Winters are also a consequence of all this.

 

[RM8]

I wish humanity had the technology to send America to Mars for four years. Or more, if needed, since I guess Trump winning again wouldn't be surprising anymore.

 

[King_Moc]

We're going to destroy the planet then. And we'll just allow it to happen, because 'democracy'. Fucking pathetic.

 

[Regulus Tera]

This is some shameful shit. You give the finger to the entire global scientific community and fuck us all over in the process for generations to come.

I've never seen such a great and powerful nation sink so incredibly low.

It's the fall of the Roman Republic all over again, but I wonder if we are gonna have time to even see the rise of the Empire

 

[Keihart]

So...is there any debate on how global warming is because of human produced CO2? isn't this as much of a fact as it can be? I mean, WTF is going with this trend of "there is no proof" stuff going around about it. Googling it like 5 minutes tells me that science is pretty definitive about it so what gives?

 

[ClosingADoor]

So...is there any debate on how global warming is because of human produced CO2? isn't this as much of a fact as it can be? I mean, WTF is going with this trend of "there is no proof" stuff going around about it. Googling it like 5 minutes tells me that science is pretty definitive about it so what gives?

It's basically this with a few words changed:

With that one paper being supplied by oil companies.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

So...is there any debate on how global warming is because of human produced CO2? isn't this as much of a fact as it can be? I mean, WTF is going with this trend of "there is no proof" stuff going around about it. Googling it like 5 minutes tells me that science is pretty definitive about it so what gives?

Makes one of the two political parties happy, thus makes half the voting base happy to ignore the words of experts.

 

[Hermii]

Does winter such as we know it has to stop existing for these idiots to start believing in climate change? Then they'll go "oops, sorry"?

Global warming = warming every single location on Earth every single day.

 

[A Serious Man]

I don't think I've been this pessimistic about the future in my entire life. We're about to enter an age of severe global unrest.

 

[Krejlooc]

It's literally

"If global warming is real, why we still got winter?"

which matches

"if evolution is real, why we still got monkeys"

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

It's literally

"If global warming is real, why we still got winter?"

which matches

"if evolution is real, why we still got monkeys"

At the very least, they're consistent.

 

[Alcoremortis]

Energy independence is also tantamount to protecting your sovereignty down the line. And while China is all about that, America has seemingly forgotten about it.

Technically, the US at current consumption of oil can be energy independent for about the next four hundred years. Fracking really changed the game on that one. At this rate, the oil will probably outlast us.

 

[the-pi-guy]

I once told an American friend of mine to listen to the scientific community and not the politicians when it came to scientific subjects. He replied that scientists are not objective because they do science for a living.

I didn't really know how to respond to that. How can people hold science in such a low regard?

I'd say science gives all the credit to people who come up with something new and prove everyone wrong. It has nothing to do with them doing science for a living, because they have everything to gain by showing that it's wrong. There's a reason nearly every scientist backs up climate change, it is literally supported by physics.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

We're going to destroy the planet then. And we'll just allow it to happen, because 'democracy'. Fucking pathetic.

I have a feeling democracy will be a thing of the past in a few decades after the disaster that was Brexit and Trump. A political system that relies on people to educate themselves about various policies and positions is not an efficient, and possibly dangerous, one when confirmation bias is going to be a critical issue thanks to Web 2.0 and 24/7 news cycle.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Why does America not believe in climate change again?

Why should we whenbit gets cold in the winter andbhot in the summer?

Chekmate

 

[Circinus]

It's basically this with a few words changed:

With that one paper being supplied by oil companies.

Unsurprisingly "vaccines cause autism" is a position shared by Donald Trump as well.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/238717783007977473?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/449525268529815552?lang=en

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/449331076528615424?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/507158574670573568?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Unsurprisingly "vaccines cause autism" is a position shared by Donald Trump as well.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/238717783007977473?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/449525268529815552?lang=en

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/449331076528615424?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/507158574670573568?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Oh boy... We're going to get mass outbreaks of measles again, aren't we.

Meanwhile in Australia a major base of the conservative government here wants them to do much more to combat climate change.

As a background the people in the country areas of australia vote almost exclusively conservative. A lot of them are farmers, employed by farmers, reliant on farmers etc. etc

So today they did this.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...s-more-on-climate-change-20161128-gszkja.html


Jesus america when our most conservative people are demanding action you know something is wrong.

That's because the Republican Party and its current active base are not conservatives, they're regressives. They want to send the state of the entire nation back to 1800s at this point

 

[seanoff]

Meanwhile in Australia a major base of the conservative government here wants them to do much more to combat climate change.

As a background the people in the country areas of australia vote almost exclusively conservative. A lot of them are farmers, employed by farmers, reliant on farmers etc. etc

So today they did this.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...s-more-on-climate-change-20161128-gszkja.html


Jesus america when our most conservative people are demanding action you know something is wrong.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Why does America not believe in climate change again?

Half the country are anti-intellectual, anti-science evangelical christians. The other half who acknowledge man-made climate change begrudgingly tolerates their presence.