If so, then it's really not surprising. I can definitely see it just having a higher res/a more stable FPS in a lot of cases then, with a few games here and there taking full advantage.
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Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
If so, then it's really not surprising. I can definitely see it just having a higher res/a more stable FPS in a lot of cases then, with a few games here and there taking full advantage.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
To me it looks like Sony didn't have gaming in mind when they came up with the Ps4.5
I'll wait for them to actually reveal the thing and tell us what its purpose is exactly and why its needed, but so far I'm very sceptical and I think its a bad idea.
I'll wait for them to actually reveal the thing and tell us what its purpose is exactly and why its needed, but so far I'm very sceptical and I think its a bad idea.
That's bad for Sony, but irrelevant from consumers.
I take him seriously. He has many contacts in the industry and talks to alot of developers.
They said that in that they said that all games MUST have a NEO mode. There are no exclusives because every game will have it.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
But but I thought that it would be easy and that it would be hard at all???
But the GB leak didn't mention anything about VR.
I honestly think this might hurt PS5 early adopters who would rather wait a few years for the new revised hardware, unless there is some killer trade-in deal.
GalacticMouse
Member
The quote in the title is a quote of Moriarty's tweet, not a developer quote. He has an on-the-record, but anonymous source for his info, but that's far from a quote.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yep.
Curious, since you work at a studio! How do you guys plan to deal with the added cert-time and cost--or is Sony not requiring it? I imagine unless there are some deals in place it's really going to break non-partner indies' banks.
My biggest concern isn't really with the performance differences (people will figure out how to do it quickly and easily), but with the fact that developing and launching on the PS4/Neo could very well prove cost and time prohibitive.
Psychoward
Banned
So then we don't know for sure that there aren't going to be any exclusives, and anyone who's naive to think that there won't be OR that ps4k games aren't going to be hampered by the ps4 if they're forced to develop both are kidding themselves.
Definitely. He and Greg know PlayStation better than anyone. They also have a great rapport with Sony. You can tell the higher-ups at Sony respect and value their opinion immensely. Despite all that, they never hesitate to be critical of Sony when they feel the situation warrants it.
On the PS4K subject, Greg actually disagrees with Colin quite a bit. They discuss it at length in the PS I Love You podcast that just launched today.
Audioboxer
Member
Of course this will help VR. It's the one thing that actually needs more power now. Not that the PS4 can't do VR, everything so far has been playable on it, but the gulf to mid-high end PC VR is noticeable. They want to keep those headsets selling till PS5 is out and it's going to be a challenge against PC VR headsets outside of the loyal PS faithful.
But shouldn't sony be allowed to offer products and content for customers who brought into their 4k tvs and streaming service as well
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
Sooo how is it different to a steam machine which people on here Harped on bout ms n sony having to counter.
Surely this is the counter..
Surely this is the counter..
But are you happy about it?
Sony wins, consumers win, but devs seem to take the brunt end of the risk here with not a whole ton of reward.
Indeed. With the announced upgrades, the limits on the new ceiling don't seem that much higher. If NEO mode is the thing necessary to make games run at 1080p 30 on a consistent basis, then NEO really will be a pretty desperate method of getting the PS4 back to a healthy state development wise.
Like, If FF15 runs at 30 with fairly constant dips to sub 20, but NEO mode makes it run at 30, that's not going to be enough for most people to reinvest.
How is VR a bad decision?
I don't see how it would halt sales to be honest.
Risk Breaker
Member
What?
then we also don't know that there's going to be a PS4.5 since Sony hasn't said anything.
Interfectum
Member
It's most likely not as bad as that tweet suggests. You should probably wait for more substantial opinions and feedback.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I mean let's be real for a moment. What's the most realistic sales scenario for the "4.5k"?
15% of the PlayStation userbase by the end of year 1? 25% by the end of year 2? While putting a lot of developers in a position to have to polish for a second set of specs. Doesn't excite me much and I'm decidedly not a developer. I suspect that people will ultimately be disappointed with the kinds of upgrades they end up seeing for PS4k versions of games outside of some 1st party efforts by the time this generation ends in a few years. Just doesn't seem like a very compelling target and it will always be only represent a fragment of the PS4 total user base, which is now well-established.
Best part of this? We now get to see half of the Digital Foundry thread saltlords forced to turn against each other as some of the PS4 owners won't be able to upgrade to the 4K.
15% of the PlayStation userbase by the end of year 1? 25% by the end of year 2? While putting a lot of developers in a position to have to polish for a second set of specs. Doesn't excite me much and I'm decidedly not a developer. I suspect that people will ultimately be disappointed with the kinds of upgrades they end up seeing for PS4k versions of games outside of some 1st party efforts by the time this generation ends in a few years. Just doesn't seem like a very compelling target and it will always be only represent a fragment of the PS4 total user base, which is now well-established.
Best part of this? We now get to see half of the Digital Foundry thread saltlords forced to turn against each other as some of the PS4 owners won't be able to upgrade to the 4K.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Ah yes - the new sales so strong that Apple has forecasted it's first sales drop, and Samsung is having way more trouble.
People are not buying new phones the way they were 2-3 years ago, and if the consoles go this route I can see the same thing happening.
I'm sure a lot of people will be mad at Sony after E3 in terms PS4 NEO.
dragonflys545
Member
I mean Nintendo and MS are both also in this upgrade race... So I don't see the problem.
If developing and cost is an issue, then wouldn't the NX and MS also be part of the problem?
D20CritMiss
Banned
Did you see the "hit after hit" titles shown off for PSVR yet? PSVR is absolutely the reason for ps4.5.
OrbitalBeard
Member
So basically, your speculation is right and those who have gotten this info from industry sources are wrong or naive. Gotcha'.
My "speculation" is that if there happen to be any Neo exclusives, they won't exist for quite awhile and it'll only happen if the userbase for that particular revision becomes massive.
We are still talking about game development here; both things still will unevitably create problems (PC/PS4 do not share shaderpaths, you might need more compiling/baking that could potentially go wrong, you have to branch your already branched multiplaform code), and then you also absolutely have to test it, which is certainly not cheap. Rumors about the increased TRCs seem to be going around too; which is always more work and restrictions to consider.
We really are not talking about simple change, it can potentially have massive implications. But, that said, it can also be just a small annoyance if the TRC and extra compliance isn't too restrictive and you already support shipping different configs on the consoles (which is not the same as being able to change settings in development).
Psychoward
Banned
That's fair but saying there aren't going to any exclusives goes against logic and common sense. They didn't release the ps4 with mandatory ps3 support and I sure as shit don't believe there aren't going to be any neo exclusives.
thecosmicfly
Banned
Curious if developers are upset with the Neo/PS4K in general or if they're upset over the parity rules that Sony would supposedly be enforcing.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Hawk269
Member
It has been said before and I have to ask as well. How is this different from PC settings having low/med/high/ultra? As for the PS4 and Neo it is only two settings to target. It seems like people are blowing thing out of proportion.
Yes it will be more work but it not like they are reprogramming from scratch to make things work on the neo.
Yes it will be more work but it not like they are reprogramming from scratch to make things work on the neo.
I'm no tech expert but how radically different is the Neo's hardware that devs are going to have to devote a significant amount of resources to making a Neo version? From what I can see, everything is the same with a slight bump in clockspeed or bandwidth. It's not like they need to do anything radically different or extra for the Neo.
People are acting like it's a completely different architecture and devs need to make the same game twice from the ground up. To me it looks more like, enabling some stuff for Neo and disabling others for PS4. And it's not even a matter of scaling up for Neo. Games are built on PCs and scaled down for PS4. They just need to scale it down less for Neo mode.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my expectation is that (as an example) if a game runs at a variable 30fps with vsync off on PS4, they'll be able to get it to run at a locked 30fps with vsync on for Neo mode. The difference will be there but it won't be significant. Just my two cents.
People are acting like it's a completely different architecture and devs need to make the same game twice from the ground up. To me it looks more like, enabling some stuff for Neo and disabling others for PS4. And it's not even a matter of scaling up for Neo. Games are built on PCs and scaled down for PS4. They just need to scale it down less for Neo mode.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my expectation is that (as an example) if a game runs at a variable 30fps with vsync off on PS4, they'll be able to get it to run at a locked 30fps with vsync on for Neo mode. The difference will be there but it won't be significant. Just my two cents.
GalacticMouse
Member
Yeah, sorry...I just re-read you're post and we're saying the same thing.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I mispoke, I meant to say how do we measure "most". Is that a delcarive statement or 3 out of the 5 that was spoken to?
Ninja
Equanimity
Member
I think we all need to step back and realise that not every dev works or thinks the same way about certain things. I'm sure there're many devs out their that welcome the idea of a more powerful console.
People are saying "you can't compare this to smartphones". And that's partially true: yearly upgrades will kill the console industry. That said, just one upgrade each 5/67/ years is also going to kill the industry.
I expect that Sony (and, honestly, Microsoft too) are looking for this kind of upgrade cycle:
2013 // tick/big // PS4 + XB1
2016 // tack/small // PS4K + XB1 Pro (includes backwards compatibility)
2019 // tick/big // PS5 + Xbox Next-Gen
2022 // tack/small // PS5K + Xbox Next-Gen Pro
etc.
Like you see, I think they'll switch to a tick-tack cycle. A tick is a big upgrade, a completely new platform - just like we are used to nowadays.
The tack is a small upgrade: it's the same platform, but it offers increased performance and is for the tech enthusiast. This will give a boost to the gaming industry: hardware sales will rise again and software sales will also likely see a boost.
More importantly, since the upgrade cycle is shorter... people will remain interested in consoles.
I expect that Sony (and, honestly, Microsoft too) are looking for this kind of upgrade cycle:
2013 // tick/big // PS4 + XB1
2016 // tack/small // PS4K + XB1 Pro (includes backwards compatibility)
2019 // tick/big // PS5 + Xbox Next-Gen
2022 // tack/small // PS5K + Xbox Next-Gen Pro
etc.
Like you see, I think they'll switch to a tick-tack cycle. A tick is a big upgrade, a completely new platform - just like we are used to nowadays.
The tack is a small upgrade: it's the same platform, but it offers increased performance and is for the tech enthusiast. This will give a boost to the gaming industry: hardware sales will rise again and software sales will also likely see a boost.
More importantly, since the upgrade cycle is shorter... people will remain interested in consoles.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Shit really, all these developers that are too lazy to make proper PC ports dont want to PC like console structure?
Interfectum
Member
It's more QA (bugs and FPS issues) but yeah, lots of people here hoping this will lead to Sony cancelling the system and going home. lol
It's going to have the same problem the New 3DS does, which is nobody wants to bother developing for it, when there's already a userbase on the original machine.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Nice edit