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[Emerson]

The idea is that its rape by omission. That is used like with STD's where you're unaware of the circumstances and it affects you in some way that you normally wouldn't agree to.

Its frankly bullshit that anyone thinks it applies to trans people. Suddenly knowing you had sex with a trans person change the situation in any way for you

I'm fairly certain I've read at least one news story about somebody being charged with rape for tricking somebody into having sex with them by lying e.g. a man pretending to be his twin brother and having sex with his brother's wife.

If so, it's really not a far leap at all from something like that.

Obviously, the rest of what he's saying is hateful shit.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I don't get the outrage at BC. Since when is censorship the best option?

Klansman: "All black people should die"
rambis: "Freeze peach"

 

[QuantumSquid]

This just reminded me that Randy Pitchford's twitter handle is DuvalMagic.

 

[Ketkat]

I'm fairly certain I've read at least one news story about somebody being charged with rape for tricking somebody into having sex with them by lying e.g. a man pretending to be his twin brother and having sex with his brother's wife.

If so, it's really not a far leap at all from something like that.

Obviously, the rest of what he's saying is hateful shit.

That's actually an incredibly far leap. Pretending to be another person entirely is completely different from being trans. In your scenario, the wife was consenting to have sex with her husband, not his twin brother. Completely different people, not finding out something about a person later on that makes you uncomfortable.

 

[rambis]

But you said this;



The OP is the only person before that who'd asked why they'd give him a platform. That isn't saying "they should censor him" - The post I replied to is basically saying speech is a two way thing, so he shouldn't be censored, which he wasn't.

Semantics aside, you're pretty clearly stanning for him with the "he was baited" into it lines. Just an FYI, just because he was "baited" doesn't change the fact his views are abhorrent and he definitely deserves every ounce of shit thrown at him.

Wait, what? This is stupid. Im done here.

 

[Alienous]

The idea is that its rape by omission. That is used like with STD's where you're unaware of the circumstances and it harms you in some way.

Its frankly bullshit that anyone thinks it applies to trans people. Suddenly knowing you had sex with a trans person change the situation in anyway for you

I'd agree that it's bullshit, but it does have precedence.

'Harm' is a subjective thing to quantify. It could do harm to a transphobic person's psyche ... is that on them? To what extent do you need to share your history with a person? What would be considered a lie by omission?

I reiterate, I'd call it bullshit - I want to be very clear on that, but there is precedence for discussion.

 

[Misha]

I'm fairly certain I've read at least one news story about somebody being charged with rape for tricking somebody into having sex with them by lying e.g. a man pretending to be his twin brother and having sex with his brother's wife.

If so, it's really not a far leap at all from something like that.

thats not even remotely the same thing. Like I'm not even sure how to argue against it cause tricking someone into thinking you're someone else for sex isn't remotely the same as being upfront about your gender but not mentioning that you're trans

 

[Var]

That's actually an incredibly far leap. Pretending to be another person entirely is completely different from being trans. In your scenario, the wife was consenting to have sex with her husband, not his twin brother. Completely different people, not finding out something about a person later on that makes you uncomfortable.

Exactly. There is no tricking going on or deception. I don't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I don't even know who Lil Duval is. I googled image him and he just looks like a twerp.

Was the Janet Mock interview respectful? And what were the hosts' immediate reaction to Duval's comment?

It was something lol. DJ Envy was Mr 20 questions about sex shit..Charlamagne was the better behaved one, but I think he did go ham once or twice..

 

[Grizzo]

What a profoundly stupid thing to say. No one is trying to censor them. People are expressing thenselves... hence the outrage. Should people censor themselves just because you don't get their outrage? Where is the line drawn and who decided on it?

Maybe you thought murdering people was a joke...

what makes it even worse is hearing the hosts laugh about it, especially when one of them shows the cover of Janet Mock's book and Duval misgenders her. And to think they have the nerve to do that just a week after having Janet in their show.

Angela is the only one who tries to correct Duval. But her voice is quickly drowned out by the others laugh and Duval despicable opinion.

 

[Misha]

I'd agree that it's bullshit, but it does have precedence.

'Harm' is a subjective thing to quantify. It could do harm to a transphobic person's psyche ... is that on them? To what extent do you need to share your history with a person? What would be considered a lie by omission?

I reiterate, I'd call it bullshit - I want to be very clear on that, but there is precedence for discussion.

If you want to do that then whether blood type, religion, and astrology sign should be mentioned is now up for discussion

 

[rambis]

Klansman: "All black people should die"
rambis: "Freeze peach"

”Censorship is to art as lynching is to justice."
― Henry Louis Gates Jr.

http://www.oocities.org/djmabry/afro/speechgates.html

 

[Alienous]

If you want to do that then whether blood type, religion, and astrology sign should be mentioned is now up for discussion

That's basically my stance. You'd be required to hand someone your autobiography and medical history and let them decide what's relevant to them. It's ridiculous.

 

[Ekai]

I'm fairly certain I've read at least one news story about somebody being charged with rape for tricking somebody into having sex with them by lying e.g. a man pretending to be his twin brother and having sex with his brother's wife.

If so, it's really not a far leap at all from something like that.

Obviously, the rest of what he's saying is hateful shit.

Given:
1) Trans people do face potential death from people such as Lil' Duval
2) Trans people still face a huge stimga in society
3) Justifying this in any sense implies we purposefully go out of our way to maliciously trick others (you even compare it to a situation where someone is tricked)
4) It's nothing like the emotional/physical abuse that someone" tricked" or outright raped would experience.

I have a hard time taking any of that seriously. It takes a lot of trust to even disclose this precisely because some men, such as Duval, have such a weak grasp on their masculinity that they would kill someone for being trans all because they think it makes them look gay.

I'd be interested in seeing how often trans panic defenses are used by women who might kill a transman but honestly I only even hear of men with fragile egos like Duval saying this shit about transwomen.

”Censorship is to art as lynching is to justice."
― Henry Louis Gates Jr.

You have continually failed to explain how this is at all censorship. You seem very concerned with silencing voices reacting to Duval. If anything, you're the one advocating censorship.

 

[cinco]

Nah BC stay doing this shit on top of giving platforms to the worse of the worse. And Charlemagne using it to push his Diet Hotep brand

lmao @ Diet Hotep brand.

But yeah Charlamagne is the worst. Shilled long enough for his book to release then went right back to being a complete idiot.

 

[All Hail C-Webb]

I find this topic very interesting, but it's very difficult to discuss without worrying that it will come across as offensive.

I know many guys who support LBGT rights, but who would have a real issue if they were hooking up with someone only to find out that they were Trans. I'm married, so it isn't going to happen to me, but I can imagine that I would be furious. Since a lot of hookups happen while under the influence, it really is a recipe for disaster.

I think that in a situation like this, the Trans individual should feel obligated to inform their potential partner before anything physical takes place. I know that it must be awkward to do, but I think it would be immoral, and disrespectful to not do it.

How does the Trans community feel about this issue? If I have used any offensive terminology, please let me know so that I can fix it.

 

[Ketkat]

I find this topic very interesting, but it's very difficult to discuss without worrying that it will come across as offensive.

I know many guys who support LBGT rights, but who would have a real issue if they were hooking up with someone only to find out that they were Trans. I'm married, so it isn't going to happen to me, but I can imagine that I would be furious. Since a lot of hookups happen while under the influence, it really is a recipe for disaster.

I think that in a situation like this, the Trans individual should feel obligated to inform their potential partner before anything physical takes place. I know that it must be awkward to do, but I think it would be immoral, and disrespectful to not do it.

How does the Trans community feel about this issue? If I have used any offensive terminology, please let me know so that I can fix it.

Why would you be furious to find out someone was trans later on?

 

[cordy]

Definitely felt like a misunderstanding of the situation. I think Duval even tried to clarify his comments later on. Might just be where I've grown up but I've heard many "I'd wanna kill the person (but not actually do it) if they-" comments in the past. In this case it's transgendered being placed there. Duval's definitely not dating a transgendered tho, that's established in that interview.

The second part of the interview was crazier. When the sidechick talked about her hard life and they turned on the violin music lol.

 

[Misha]

I find this topic very interesting, but it's very difficult to discuss without worrying that it will come across as offensive.

I know many guys who support LBGT rights, but who would have a real issue if they were hooking up with someone only to find out that they were Trans. I'm married, so it isn't going to happen to me, but I can imagine that I would be furious. Since a lot of hookups happen while under the influence, it really is a recipe for disaster.

I think that in a situation like this, the Trans individual should feel obligated to inform their potential partner before anything physical takes place. I know that it must be awkward to do, but I think it would be immoral, and disrespectful to not do it.

How does the Trans community feel about this issue? If I have used any offensive terminology, please let me know so that I can fix it.

let me stop you here, is the issue that they're transgender or are you assuming all trans people are preop and you don't do certain genitals? the previous is transphobic, the latter is understandable (though you should also be mad at yourself for being drunk and not noticing)

 

[collige]

I find this topic very interesting, but it's very difficult to discuss without worrying that it will come across as offensive.

I know many guys who support LBGT rights, but who would have a real issue if they were hooking up with someone only to find out that they were Trans. I'm married, so it isn't going to happen to me, but I can imagine that I would be furious. Since a lot of hookups happen while under the influence, it really is a recipe for disaster.

I think that in a situation like this, the Trans individual should feel obligated to inform their potential partner before anything physical takes place. I know that it must be awkward to do, but I think it would be immoral, and disrespectful to not do it.

How does the Trans community feel about this issue? If I have used any offensive terminology, please let me know so that I can fix it.

If the person in question is pre-SRS, then you would know as soon as their pants came off and could bail accordingly. They would also almost certainly tell you before that point to avoid the aforementioned possibility of violence.
If the person is post-SRS, and you found out somehow afterwards, then it makes no difference because you consented (presumably, let's take alcohol out of the situation here) to banging them as is and the medical history of a random stranger you hooked up with isn't really any of your business anyway.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

“Censorship is to art as lynching is to justice.”
― Henry Louis Gates Jr.

http://www.oocities.org/djmabry/afro/speechgates.html

Lol bruh

Some of you cats have zero self awareness

 

[constantstatic]

Why would you be furious to find out someone was trans later on?

Masculinity is oh so fragile that's why.

I don't really understand straight men. If you take a women home to hook up you obviously found this women attractive enough to potentially sleep with why do you care if she may be trans. As a gay man if I met a trans dude I was into and found attractive I don't think I would have a problem hooking up with them.

The people on this talk show are trash and its disgusting to joke about murdering a trans women. No one really shit him down much after the comments and the sides are laughing like wtf. Trans people are murdered all the time it's not a joke.

 

[A Link to the Past]

“Censorship is to art as lynching is to justice.”
― Henry Louis Gates Jr.

http://www.oocities.org/djmabry/afro/speechgates.html

How brave of you to advocate for the killing of marginalized people :v

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Masculinity is oh so fragile that's why.

I don't really understand straight men. If you take a women home to hook up you obviously found this women attractive enough to potentially sleep with why do you care if she may be trans. As a gay man if I met a trans dude I was into and found attractive I don't think I would have a problem hooking up with them.

Alcohol. You never woke up and realised a hookup was a lot uglier than your first thought? And I think it was stated that alcohol would be involved in the posters hypothetical

 

[Gordon Shumway]

https://youtu.be/mddNgZGVTLs

Recently posted. Just started it..

 

[Future]

Masculinity is oh so fragile that's why.

I don't really understand straight men. If you take a women home to hook up you obviously found this women attractive enough to potentially sleep with why do you care if she may be trans. As a gay man if I met a trans dude I was into and found attractive I don't think I would have a problem hooking up with them.

Is that what people assume? Take transgendered out of the equation, if a straight man woke up with another straight man in their bed do people think that their issue with that would be simply their fragile masculinity?

 

[rambis]

How brave of you to advocate for the killing of marginalized people :v

Huh? Are you all really just throwing shit at the wall or is there some huge reading comprehension lapse somewhere cause sheeesh..

 

[cordy]

I find this topic very interesting, but it's very difficult to discuss without worrying that it will come across as offensive.

I know many guys who support LBGT rights, but who would have a real issue if they were hooking up with someone only to find out that they were Trans. I'm married, so it isn't going to happen to me, but I can imagine that I would be furious. Since a lot of hookups happen while under the influence, it really is a recipe for disaster.

I think that in a situation like this, the Trans individual should feel obligated to inform their potential partner before anything physical takes place. I know that it must be awkward to do, but I think it would be immoral, and disrespectful to not do it.

How does the Trans community feel about this issue? If I have used any offensive terminology, please let me know so that I can fix it.

I completely understand what you're saying, idk about others but I get it.

It would be ok for me but your pov I've heard many people say this all throughout my life relating to other situations.

 

[Geist-]

So many people don't understand that censorship specifically means the Government can't prosecute you for what you say, not that you can say whatever dumb shit comes into your dumb fucking head without consequences.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I find this topic very interesting, but it's very difficult to discuss without worrying that it will come across as offensive.

I know many guys who support LBGT rights, but who would have a real issue if they were hooking up with someone only to find out that they were Trans. I'm married, so it isn't going to happen to me, but I can imagine that I would be furious. Since a lot of hookups happen while under the influence, it really is a recipe for disaster.

I think that in a situation like this, the Trans individual should feel obligated to inform their potential partner before anything physical takes place. I know that it must be awkward to do, but I think it would be immoral, and disrespectful to not do it.

How does the Trans community feel about this issue? If I have used any offensive terminology, please let me know so that I can fix it.

I guess I'd ask, why don't you just make it clear that you aren't interested in trans people?

So many people don't understand that censorship specifically means the Government can't prosecute you for what you say, not that you can say whatever dumb shit comes into your dumb fucking head without consequences.

Don't be silly, censorship is when you tell someone to stop calling for genocide

 

[Alienous]

Is that what people assume? Take transgendered out of the equation, if a straight man woke up with another straight man in their bed do people think that their issue with that would be simply their fragile masculinity?

Isn't that taking the entire discussion out of the equation?

That's an entirely different scenario.

 

[Ralemont]

let me stop you here, is the issue that they're transgender or are you assuming all trans people are preop and you don't do certain genitals? the previous is transphobic, the latter is understandable (though you should also be mad at yourself for being drunk and not noticing)

Okay, but you realize that whether someone is transphobic is a different issue than whether trans people should inform a partner beforehand?

I guess I'd ask, why don't you just make it clear that you aren't interested in trans people?

In this situation we are talking about a guy or girl not knowing the other person is trans, in which case it could potentially be very offensive to bring up "I'm not interested" in trans to a cis person. Likely that person would assume you are calling them masculine (if female) or feminine (if male). Another reason is that encountering someone trans is an unlikely scenario compared to cis, and so the assumption is that someone is cis until informed otherwise. therefore, it just makes more sense for the trans person to clarify.

 

[enzo_gt]

Watched it, and TBC pretty much immediately defended Trans rights and told him he can't go around saying shit like he said and he backtracked.

What part am I missing here about the backlash towards TBC? Are people just projecting their dislike of Charlamagne/TBC when they interviewed someone who went left and then checked him for going left and saying unruly shit? Isn't that exactly the kind of social justice in action that people want from media outlets who have guests on that say some distasteful stuff?

The boycott is social justice gone wrong, you don't boycott an entire platform if someone happens to go make distasteful comments on it. Since when is the platform accountable for the guest's comments when they are not complicit in them and explicitly disagreed with them? Why aren't people boycotting Twitter for the comments of a trillion different racists and extremists on there. Different medium, same reasoning applies.

Seems like all the energy is misdirected when it could be going towards pushing for literacy about trans rights. Charlamagne even said they asked protestors to come on the show and they declined. Like what? Do y'all want change or just want to be upset? The backlash sounds like it's trending towards the latter.

 

[4 is a cutie]

Is that what people assume? Take transgendered out of the equation, if a straight man woke up with another straight man in their bed do people think that their issue with that would be simply their fragile masculinity?

If you choose to sleep with a man you found attractive, who do you want to be mad at?

 

[Breads]

Alcohol. You never woke up and realised a hookup was a lot uglier than your first thought? And I think it was stated that alcohol would be involved in the posters hypothetical

They menion being transphobic as well. If a woman is no longer a woman once you find out they are trans that is transphobia. Everything was fine until transphobia makes you think its a moral/ respect issue they should bend the knee over.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Okay, but you realize that whether someone is transphobic is a different issue than whether trans people should inform a partner beforehand?

Should trans people inform a partner beforehand?

 

[excelsiorlef]

It was in the midst of an interview, they had no idea his answer before they asked. Duval is a comedian, he probably said it jokingly, but it's an awful joke to say when it's a big problem that Transgendered people face. Especially in light of a a very recent case of a Transgendered person being stabbed over 100 times by a heterosexual man.

They were taken aback that the It Ain't Rape guy said something fucked up? Please.

 

[constantstatic]

Is that what people assume? Take transgendered out of the equation, if a straight man woke up with another straight man in their bed do people think that their issue with that would be simply their fragile masculinity?

What does sharing a bed with a platonic friend have to do with any of this? You guys defending this shit are really awful. Also are you saying two straight men can't share a bed ? Cuz fuck masculinity is more fragile than I thought. I have slept in the same bed as many of my straight friends it's a non issue.

 

[Misha]

Okay, but you realize that whether someone is transphobic is a different issue than whether trans people should inform a partner beforehand?

for their own safety, sure. but the partner has no reason to know. ideally you eventually tell someone you have a long term relationship with like you would with other personal stuff

 

[excelsiorlef]

He is an idiot but he clearly said he didn't want to talk about the subject and Charlemagne clearly was baiting him to say something.

So of course it means he just had to say he'd kill us.

I mean god knows having the self-restraint not to say that is just a herculean task.

 

[Ralemont]

Should trans people inform a partner beforehand?

Yes. And they should do so because it's often enough that people do care that they should do so. If no one cared, then no they wouldn't have to.

for their own safety, sure. but the partner has no reason to know. ideally you eventually tell someone you have a long term relationship with like you would with other personal stuff

The partner does have a reason to know, if they are transphobic. But that's not something you're going to know about them until the topic is brought up. So bring it up before sex.

 

[Basketball]

Should trans people inform a partner beforehand?

Hell yeah
Wtf

 

[cordy]

Watched it, and TBC pretty much immediately defended Trans rights and told him he can't go around saying shit like he said and he back

What part am I missing here about the backlash towards TBC? Are people just projecting their dislike of Charlamagne/TBC when they interviewed someone who went left and then checked him for going left and saying unruly shit? Isn't that exactly the kind of social justice in action that people want from media outlets who have guests on that say some distasteful stuff?

The boycott is social justice gone wrong, you don't boycott an entire platform if someone happens to go make distasteful comments on it. Since when is the platform accountable for the guest's comments when they are not complicit in them and explicitly disagreed with them? Why aren't people boycotting Twitter for the comments of a trillion different racists and extremists on there. Different medium, same reasoning applies.

Seems like all the energy is misdirected when it could be going towards pushing for literacy about trans rights. Charlamagne even said they asked protestors to come on the show and they declined. Like what? Do y'all want change or just want to be upset? The backlash sounds like it's trending towards the latter.

Honestly seems like people wanna "get back at Charlamagne and TBC" because of some shit they've said previous and for the fact they dislike them. Their numbers aren't going to decrease and that Duval video is doing way more numbers than it should with it being about the Real Sidechicks of Atlanta.

And Charlamagne's tried to get multiple people to get on his platforms to explain their side of the story. He and Schultz have tried to get a transgendered person to come on their podcast repeatedly to break things down to them but no one's accepted. That's not how people learn, you go there and explain it to them.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

They were taken aback that the It Ain't Rape guy said something fucked up? Please.

I mean, the dude said "This might sound messed up, and I don't care. She dying. Nah, dawg. I can't do that. You manipulated me to believe in this thing." as a joke..start laughing, chuckles..

 

[All Hail C-Webb]

If the person in question is pre-SRS, then you would know as soon as their pants came off and could bail accordingly. They would also almost certainly tell you before that point to avoid the aforementioned possibility of violence.
If the person is post-SRS, and you found out somehow afterwards, then it makes no difference because you consented (presumably, let's take alcohol out of the situation here) to banging them as is and the medical history of a random stranger you hooked up with isn't really any of your business anyway.

Pre-SRS is very cut and dry in my mind.
For Post-op, I think it boils down to common decency. I think it is fairly well established that many heterosexual men will have an issue even in this situation. We are supposed to be so thoughtful of how we might offend a Trans person, but it seems like very little thought is put into the effect it might have on the partner.
To claim it is like any other medical condition is disingenuous. The fact is that most guys won't care that someone had a kidney removed, but they surely will care if it was a penis that was removed.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If I may ask, why can't cis people exclaim that they are not interested in trans people? Why should the impetus be put on trans people to make that clear?

 

[Misha]

Yes. And they should do so because it's often enough that people do care that they should do so. If no one cared, then no they wouldn't have to.

for their own sake or the sake of the other person?

 

[Ekai]

Is that what people assume? Take transgendered out of the equation, if a straight man woke up with another straight man in their bed do people think that their issue with that would be simply their fragile masculinity?

Given Duval literally fricking said he thinks he's being tricked/made out to be gay, it's literally him having super fricking fragile masculinity.

 

[Misha]

The partner does have a reason to know, if they are transphobic. But that's not something you're going to know about them until the topic is brought up. So bring it up before sex.

I very much don't understand your view. you call them "transphobic" which is usually negative but you're saying they deserve to be catered to.

 

[GurgleBot20]

I'm really curious as to what people think is so bad about having sex with a Trans person.