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COMICS!!! |OT| August 2017 | Gwenpool's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
- Thread starter Messi
- Start date
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Not a problem I have with most books. When I do have that problem with a book it tends to get dropped.
BKatastrophe
Member
As I said, he's a superhero who goes fast and that's it. Done. Wally went from being a cocky sidekick to having a wife and kids, all with an upbeat jokester attitude with a capability for some dark shit.
Barry had to have his past rewritten to make him "constantly driven for justice" due to his mom's death. All he has after that are feats, and feats can only go so far as to making a character interesting (See: Hal Jordan). Two of those feats broke and remade the universe. Oh and he's the Speed Force engine, which actually makes me dislike him intensely.
Let's all remember this:
Fuck Barry Allen. Yeah, I made it personal. If I want a boy scout superhero, I'll pick Superman, because at least he has fantastic mythos and a lot of symbolism and idealism attached.
Barry fucking exists and had to be retconned into being important, with the exception of Crisis.
Freezasaurus
Member
Finished the Rucka run on Punisher, or so I thought. On to Punisher War Zone! Loving this book.
To quote Batman, "The last time you really inspired anyone, was when you were dead." Though to be fair, Final Crisis was the last high point for Barry Allen IMO.
And Geoff Johns's retcon that murdered his mother and put his father in prison was awful, and I hate that it informs the story beats for both the TV show and the movies. There truly was no reason to induct him into the orphaned superhero club.
I was thinking a little bit ago about DC's Dark Matter initiative coming up later this year, where they're bringing the artists back into the big picture, making THEM sell the books. And that's great, but hasn't the landscape changed with artists over the last decade or so? I mean, you don't see artists stay on books very long these days (with some exceptions, of course). I love and follow several artists, but they're more arc-sellers than series-sellers any more.
Especially when you take into account someone like Jim Lee, who is doing the art on Immortal Men. You know either Lee will be off of the book within 12 issue AT MOST (likely less), it will get consistently delayed, or he will only be doing a small amount of the pages after the first couple of issues.
It feels like you just hate that they're trying to change Barry into a more interesting an important character. How is that a bad thing? He wasn't interesting, so they add a love interest, they add a personality, they had some level of importance. That's how you make a bad character good. Modern Barry Allen Flash doesn't feel like a very different character than 90s era Wally, except for the fact they unfortunately don't have him a married man anymore.
Especially when you take into account someone like Jim Lee, who is doing the art on Immortal Men. You know either Lee will be off of the book within 12 issue AT MOST (likely less), it will get consistently delayed, or he will only be doing a small amount of the pages after the first couple of issues.
It feels like you just hate that they're trying to change Barry into a more interesting an important character. How is that a bad thing? He wasn't interesting, so they add a love interest, they add a personality, they had some level of importance. That's how you make a bad character good. Modern Barry Allen Flash doesn't feel like a very different character than 90s era Wally, except for the fact they unfortunately don't have him a married man anymore.
And that's exactly what they're trying to change.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
The reason that anybody actually cared for Wally nowadays is because they got rid of Barry during Crisis of Infinite Earths and was out of the picture for a couple of decades.
I mean, hey, if they pull it off and do decently long runs, I'll be immensely happy.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
You see more artist doing more issues in series in Image or Indie comics nowadays than the Big Two.
BKatastrophe
Member
And right there is a big part of the problem; every incarnation of Barry from this point on, including the CW series and the movies has been made to be more like Wally. You're saying that making him a copy of another character is a step forward? How? Again, Barry occupies no unique space. He has nothing of his own, and they know that, so they keep adding shit to make him relevant because there's nothing uniquely endearing about him. At all. I've read Flash Rebirth, some of Manapul's run, some of this run, and some Justice League and literally none of it fixes the problem. He's a boring character, plain and simple. It's fine to have your character be a straight forward superhero. I mean, he works perfectly in Young Justice because he is the only one occupying that Silver-Age Good Ol' Boy Scout space, thus making him completely unique.
Hal has the same problem, but at least he's always been a cocky womanizer, if an incredibly boring and milquetoast version of a cocky womanizer.
I don't hate that they're trying to make Barry more interesting, I hate that the idea of making him interesting is just making him into a different character. Which isn't actually making him more interesting.
The BC rumor is that those artists are only signed for the first three issues. Guys like Jim Lee aren't going to put out a monthly ongoing long-term so we'll see what happens there.
Whether or not the changes to Barry's origin make him better is debatable and quite a few people actually hate the changes.If the solution to making Barry a better character is making Wally and completely changing his motivation for being a hero, then why bring him back? Personally I don't like how Flash Rebirth just led to the rest of the Flash family getting screwed over just so Barry could stand out more.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
How much is that BC rumor is true?
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Read Jerusalem. That is the one that I enjoyed the most out of those four.
Yeah, that's very true.
I wrote a big post, but I just don't think it's worth getting into. Neither of us will convince the other. You just like characters to be flawed, and I get that. I love flawed characters. But I also like the occasional pure character, like Hal and Barry. They have a strong sense of what's right and wrong, and it's not in their character to be bad people.
BKatastrophe
Member
No I don't just like characters to be flawed. I like characters to be interesting. I can like both flawed characters and those that largely grow beyond their flaws. I like pure superheroic characters. Dick Grayson is my favorite superhero of all time. I just like characters that are interesting. Barry's space in the world had been occupied decades ago, and they brought him back with a forced push to make him somehow universally important and also be more like Wally. I don't know how anyone can see that as an improvement.
There are a lot of morally pure heroes, they just actually have flavor.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Marvel Zombies indeed.
It did? That's fantastic.
I'm going to do a re-read of Morrison Batman starting tonight.
BKatastrophe
Member
Acceptance will be when Axel gets fired or they stop fucking over comics for stupid shit.
People like Deadpool?
Yes but the binding is dreadful and is super tight. Such a let-down. Remender HCs are always that size as of a few years ago.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
So I didn't get as much through Ostrander's suicide squad run during my vacation as planned. I stumbled into a my hero acedamia manga run which was a lot of fun.
But I'm now 13 issues into the series and this is a dense read! Older comics can be very text heavy but usually this was some old crutch where the writer described everything the artist was illustrating,that you can just skip or skim. That's not the case with this run. It's not wasted text, or even the bendis stylemof interjecking witty banter through repetitious dialogue. It's all essential but jam packed in where so much is covered in a single issue but it doesn't feel rushed. You still get the mission setups, the character interactions, juggling all the character motivations from a rotating cast, etc. and it still knows not to be chatty during the action. Even showing restraint at times. Anyway. A cool series but one I'm realizing I'll need to chip away at more than maybe marathon read because it can get exhausting. A 2 issue arc feels like a 6 issue 2017 arc.
But I'm now 13 issues into the series and this is a dense read! Older comics can be very text heavy but usually this was some old crutch where the writer described everything the artist was illustrating,that you can just skip or skim. That's not the case with this run. It's not wasted text, or even the bendis stylemof interjecking witty banter through repetitious dialogue. It's all essential but jam packed in where so much is covered in a single issue but it doesn't feel rushed. You still get the mission setups, the character interactions, juggling all the character motivations from a rotating cast, etc. and it still knows not to be chatty during the action. Even showing restraint at times. Anyway. A cool series but one I'm realizing I'll need to chip away at more than maybe marathon read because it can get exhausting. A 2 issue arc feels like a 6 issue 2017 arc.
People want Deadpool to kill Moon Girl because ASSHOLES.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Does he do that? Because yeah I'd find that pretty funny.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
This is the second Deadpool kills series, right?
The hint is in the books title lol
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Doesn't mean she's actually in it.
Fourth! It follows Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe, Deadpool Killustrated and Deadpool Kills Deadpool.
MHWilliams
Member
I mean, the big two under 20K cutoff list is: Gwenpool, Batgirl and the Birds of Prey, Hulk, Black Bolt, Royals, Doom Patrol, Captain Falcon, Hellblazer, Ultimates 2, Ice Man, Captain Marvel, Superwoman, U.S. Avengers, Spider-Man 2099, Secret Warriors, Luke Cage, Rocket, Black Panther Crew, New Superman, Blue Beetle, Bombshells, America, Nick Fury, Ocupy Avengers, Monsters Unleashed, Mother Panic, Shade The Changing Girl, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, Gotham Academy Second Semester.
Is anyone really surprised at that list? Captain America Sam Wilson is maybe in my "huh, that's interesting" list, but the rest is pretty much expected.
Captain Skeleton
Member
I read it issue to issue...
People need to realise the genius of David F Walker.
Captain Skeleton
Member
So has everyone.
LordOfLore
Banned
I was actually surprised to see it part of Legacy. Is it part of scholastic like Moon Girl, Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel? I don't think the event even sold well.
MHWilliams
Member
Here, let me help further.
New Marvel Legacy books that'll race below the cutoff, or stay there.
Falcon, Marvel Two-in-One, Spirits of Vengeance
DC Dark Matter and others, for good measure:
The Silencer, Immortal Men, Damage, Michael Cray, Mister Miracle.
New Marvel Legacy books that'll race below the cutoff, or stay there.
Falcon, Marvel Two-in-One, Spirits of Vengeance
DC Dark Matter and others, for good measure:
The Silencer, Immortal Men, Damage, Michael Cray, Mister Miracle.
Spirits of Vengeance is a miniseries and Mister Miracle is a maxiseries.
MHWilliams
Member
Oh, that's good and smart of them. I'm a Ghost Rider fan and it sounds like a pass to me.
Isnt Two-in-One a One Shot?
We don't know yet. I would expect it to be either a miniseries or an ongoing though.
LordOfLore
Banned
Was that announced, like, today? Everything we heard about the new books in Legacy with retro covers before this was that they were all ongoings.
It was revealed before the Ocotober solicitations released.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
Looking forward to that new book Wes Craig & Toby Cypress are putting out in November. No idea how Craig is as a writer but looks fun
JordanDeGroot
Member
Theres a lot of good reading on that list. It's sad really, maybe comics really were a mistake or maybe if theres no tv show or film to go with a series these days people don't read it.