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[Black Deatha]

Well, my famlys stupid old (probably like 10 years) 51" 4:3 Rear Projection TV has fianaly crapped out on us. I am not sure of what exactly the problem is, but now when you turn it on, the screen doesnt even come on at all, looks like it's still off, but we still get sound, and are able to change the channles, and the volume no problem. Now it could be that it's just a simple matter of like the projector it's self being fucked up. But in anycase, another part in it already failed before, and the TV was out of commision for like the 4 months that it took the idiot rapair guy my dad hired to get the part. And within a couple months the problems it had the first time around came back. Only last time the TV just completaly died, you couldent even turn it on and get sound. the problems I speak of are that the TV does this popping thing, usualy a few times after you first turn it on (though it doesnt always happen). What i eman by 'popping' is thta the speakers make a loud poping sound,and usualy the screen kinda flasshes and the pucture goes out of allignment.

We didnt even buy the one we have, it was given to my dad by a freind of his a couple years ago, the friend had bought a new one, and was getting rid of his old one. It's a ProScan, I have never heard of them before, but whatever, it was a free big TV.

Anyway though, I am trying to convince my dad to look at getitng a new TV, and a good, so i have been showing him a few HD widescreen ones at Future SHop, and he does like them, so we may end up getting one, partialy considering I offerd to help him pay for it (after all I will be using it too).

Now though, I need to decide which one to go with, I am looking at getting another 51", only this time 16:9. I went to Future Shop today to take a look around, I am a big Sony fan, my TV is a Sony, and so I first looked at the Sony's, but I know the one guy there (he's the one I bought my TV off of) And when looking at the Sony, he showed me this awsome deal the store is currently offering where when you buy select TV's, you get a FREE HDTV Cable Converter. There's things are $500 alone, so that's a pretty sweet deal right there. But unfourtinatly the Sony 51" is not one of the select TV's on this deal (other Sony's are, like the Projection LCD.

The Sony I was looking at was on sale for $2,299 (regularly $2,799). And my freind was strongly reccomending I consider the Hitachi 51" that they had on for $2,299 and was ne of the select TV's on the deal. And I must say when I compared the Hitachi picture to that of the Sony's the Hitachi did look better.

So now I want to ask, who do you guys reccomend as the best in 51" Projections? Are Hitachi projections better than Sony's? and who else should I consider/look at?

I went to look at the Hitachi on there site, but that site really blows, took me a while just to ind a way to LOOK at there products, what a retarded site. On Sony's I can find evrything with ease.

But anyway, here's a couple links to the TV's I have been talking about on Future SHop's site:
The Sony
The Hitachi

Note, you may notice that the Sony is listed at $2,799, but it's still on for $2,299 at the location I was at.

Anyway, another kinda sweet thing is that since I know this guy, he is willing to give me a bit of a deal if and when we get the TV so that I could get a second HD converter for my TV for ½ price. Which I would not mind.

Now one other tinng, I am sure someone will (as they always do) suggest I get a projector, but that's not really an option, the living room we have would not be a very good room FOR a projector. It's too lit, and we dont really have the wall space. Pluys, projectors are generaly a lot more expensive than my dad will want to spend.

Thanks in advance GAF, I know you wont steer me wrong

~Black Deatha

 

[Scrow]

http://www.metz.de/en/home_entertainment/artos_82_pro.46.html

I've got it and it's awesome. Image quality is flawless. Just one problem though... it needs to be a bit bigger. If you've never heard of the Metz brand, don't let that stop you getting it, they make some of the best TVs.

 

[myzhi]

TV/VIDEO

DLP™ (Digital Light Processing) TV
- Compact Light-Weight Design™ Fits Where Others Won't™

Samsung Cinema Smooth™ Gen 3 HD Third Generation Light Engine
- Single Panel Digital Micro-Mirror Device (DMD) Design for a Crystal Clear Picture Without Any Possibility of Convergence Errors
- High Output 0.55" DLP™ Technology by Texas Instruments
- Smooth Film-Like Pixel Free Images
- 1500:1 Contrast Ratio with Outstanding Color and Deep Black Levels
- 30% Quieter Operation (48db)

Samsung's Latest Generation DNIe™ Video Enhancer
Samsung's Cinema Smooth™ Film-Mode 3:2 Pull Down powered by Genesis™
1280 x 720 Digital Format Converter for All Inputs
HDTV Performance with Add-On HDTV Tuner or HD Receiver
New HDMI and DVI Inputs for True Digital Performance
No Screen Aging or Burn-In Effects for Worry-Free Enjoyment

AUDIO

30-Watt Stereo Audio System with SRS TruSurround XT™






If you want the best, Samsung DLP is what you should be looking at. I have the 61" and all I can say is "Wow." Nothing can beat its picture quality other then maybe the $7000+ Plasma TVs.

 

[Black Deatha]

http://www.metz.de/en/home_entertainment/artos_82_pro.46.html

http://www.metz.de/images/produkte/gross/18.jpg

I've got it and it's awesome. Image quality is flawless. Just one problem though... it needs to be a bit bigger. If you've never heard of the Metz brand, don't let that stop you getting it, they make some of the best TVs.

Never heard of or even seen a Metz priior to seeing your post, but after looking on there site, it doesnt look like they even have projection TV's, though I may have missed the link, but I didnt see one.

http://www.samsungusa.com/images/prod/product03/b2c_l_hlp6163.jpg


TV/VIDEO

DLP™ (Digital Light Processing) TV
- Compact Light-Weight Design™ Fits Where Others Won't™

Samsung Cinema Smooth™ Gen 3 HD Third Generation Light Engine
- Single Panel Digital Micro-Mirror Device (DMD) Design for a Crystal Clear Picture Without Any Possibility of Convergence Errors
- High Output 0.55" DLP™ Technology by Texas Instruments
- Smooth Film-Like Pixel Free Images
- 1500:1 Contrast Ratio with Outstanding Color and Deep Black Levels
- 30% Quieter Operation (48db)

Samsung's Latest Generation DNIe™ Video Enhancer
Samsung's Cinema Smooth™ Film-Mode 3:2 Pull Down powered by Genesis™
1280 x 720 Digital Format Converter for All Inputs
HDTV Performance with Add-On HDTV Tuner or HD Receiver
New HDMI and DVI Inputs for True Digital Performance
No Screen Aging or Burn-In Effects for Worry-Free Enjoyment

AUDIO

30-Watt Stereo Audio System with SRS TruSurround XT™

If you want the best, Samsung DLP is what you should be looking at. I have the 61" and all I can say is "Wow." Nothing can beat its picture quality other then maybe the $7000+ Plasma TVs.

That Samsung sounds pretty nice too, but unfourtinatly Future Shop doesnt have many Samsung's, and the ones they do have are a lot more expensive.

Please though, can anyone help me out in at least deciding if the Hitachi is better than the Sony or visa versa...

~Black Deatha

 

[Deg]

This forum is really into their projection tv's.

 

[Bog]

This forum is really into their projection tv's.

I know, and it's really quite sad. I guess to them, size is more important than quality.

 

[Black Deatha]

I know, and it's really quite sad. I guess to them, size is more important than quality.

Hey hey hey, before you say I dont like quality, let me tell you, my TV is a 32" HD Vega, the KV32HS500, and it's a damn awsome TV, I couldent be happier with it. However for downstaird in a larger room, we need something a bit bigger, and Projection isnt exactly shitty.

Here'sa link to a newer model of my TV, it's on Future SHop because it seems like according to Sony's site, they have discontinued my TV's line or something...

32" HD Vega

~Black Deatha

 

[Scrow]

If you want the best, Samsung DLP is what you should be looking at. I have the 61" and all I can say is "Wow." Nothing can beat its picture quality other then maybe the $7000+ Plasma TVs.

Plasma TVs are "meh".

 

[Draff]

Home Theater Mag and Consumer Reports recently rated one of the Toshiba projection TV's the highest.

 

[gohepcat]

Look into DLP rear projection Tvs. They are the Bomb!

 

[marko]

I'd check out avsforum, specifically this recent thread seems to have some info.

avsforum

 

[Pachinko]

Projection TV's seem to be fine sets if you have a room and lighting set up that accomadates them perfectly. Otherwise I'd stick with something that doesn't require you to be 30 feet away with all the lights off. I recall playing ONI for PS2(bleagh that game sucked) and I literally couldn't see the tv during daylight hours no matter what I did because the room these folks had set up on this house just wasn't dark enough. It reminds me of playing a gameboy advance compared to the SP.

 

[Bog]

Hey hey hey, before you say I dont like quality, let me tell you, my TV is a 32" HD Vega, the KV32HS500, and it's a damn awsome TV, I couldent be happier with it. However for downstaird in a larger room, we need something a bit bigger, and Projection isnt exactly shitty.

Here'sa link to a newer model of my TV, it's on Future SHop because it seems like according to Sony's site, they have discontinued my TV's line or something...

32" HD Vega

~Black Deatha

Hey, there's nothing wrong with that TV you posted (the 32" Wega). But it's also not projection.

 

[Eggo]

I just bought a 57" Sony Rear projection TV (HD-ready) for $1900 out the door from Good Guys. Why are you spending so much on a 51"? Does it come with an HD-tuner built in? BTW, I love the TV.

 

[Black Deatha]

Look into DLP rear projection Tvs. They are the Bomb!

THe DLP's are also more expensive.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with that TV you posted (the 32" Wega). But it's also not projection.

That was my point, though I may be miss-understanding your post.

And when I look on Future SHop's site and compare the 2 medels with there site comparison feature I dont really get any where, because both TV's seem to have almost all the exact same features. It's hard to say if one really IS better than the other with that, but come on, I am always reading post by people here who did a lot of reasearch before finaly buying, where are you guys? There must be someone who can tell me some of the advantages of a Hitachi .vs. a Sony.

I just bought a 57" Sony Rear projection TV (HD-ready) for $1900 out the door from Good Guys. Why are you spending so much on a 51"? Does it come with an HD-tuner built in? BTW, I love the TV.

I suspose I should always mention in these type of posts, I am Canadian, CAD my freind

~Black Deatha

 

[Marty Chinn]

I just bought a 57" Sony Rear projection TV (HD-ready) for $1900 out the door from Good Guys. Why are you spending so much on a 51"? Does it come with an HD-tuner built in? BTW, I love the TV.

Because CRT Rear Projection TVs are the worst of all large screens. That's why they're the cheapest. LCD Projection, DLP Projection LCoS Projection all cost more because they are significantly better in quality.

 

[Alcibiades]

I don't know which would be better, but what would the 2nd HD converter be for, if that's important to you for another set of your own or something, then you are getting a good $750 in savings. The CRT RPTV discussion on

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429489

that that guy had linked to seems to be really great and informative...

 

[Black Deatha]

I don't know which would be better, but what would the 2nd HD converter be for, if that's important to you for another set of your own or something, then you are getting a good $750 in savings. The CRT RPTV discussion on

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429489

that that guy had linked to seems to be really great and informative...

Yeah I was reading that earlyer, was somewhat helpfull. And the second HD converter would be for my TV, because mine as I said is also HD, and apperantly the HD converters like the digital ones, will let you hook up more than one TV to them, but both only let you view the same channel. Plus, my TV is upstairs, and the new TV would go downstairs, so even if I wanted to split the signal, getting the length of Component or DVI cable would be very expensive.

Now if I am wrong about this, please someone tell me, but thus far it sounds very similar to digital cable's restrictions. (I was looking in to getting digital a while back)

~Black Deatha

 

[heavy liquid]

Because CRT Rear Projection TVs are the worst of all large screens. That's why they're the cheapest. LCD Projection, DLP Projection LCoS Projection all cost more because they are significantly better in quality.

Not true. LCD, DLP and LCoS are more expensive because they are newer technologies. Picture quality between them is debatable, and each format has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Many people (including myself) at avsforum consider CRT RPTV the best available right now, bang for buck.

In a few years, I might consider getting a DLP when the price comes down, and they fix the common 'rainbow effect' the black levels and shadow detail gets better.

 

[Team Rancid]

I have a Hitachi RPTV and love it. I bought it refurbished from Hitachi's WEBSITE. Excellent service and I saved a bunch of $$$.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Do DLP TV's have bulbs that eventually die?

 

[heavy liquid]

Do DLP TV's have bulbs that eventually die?

Yep.

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

What do you guys think about this tv?

Sony Grand WEGA KF42WE610 42" Digital Widescreen LCD TV

Link

 

[Doth Togo]

http://www.metz.de/en/home_entertainment/artos_82_pro.46.html

I've got it and it's awesome. Image quality is flawless. Just one problem though... it needs to be a bit bigger. If you've never heard of the Metz brand, don't let that stop you getting it, they make some of the best TVs.

IAWTP. These are the TVs for videophiles.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Not true. LCD, DLP and LCoS are more expensive because they are newer technologies. Picture quality between them is debatable, and each format has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Many people (including myself) at avsforum consider CRT RPTV the best available right now, bang for buck.

In a few years, I might consider getting a DLP when the price comes down, and they fix the common 'rainbow effect' the black levels and shadow detail gets better.

The rainbow effect is the reason I stayed away from DLP, but issues of burn in, viewing angle, lighting, and even image quality were all factors that made me stay away from CRT even though I went in looking to buy one. After reading up all the negative draw backs in comparison to the other technology, it was clear that there is a reason CRT is the cheapest. Sure the newer tech is expensive, but I do think you are paying for better image quality. Maybe a lot more than it should be, but you are.

 

[Marty Chinn]

What do you guys think about this tv?

Sony Grand WEGA KF42WE610 42" Digital Widescreen LCD TV

Link

From all the research I've done, the popular favorites in the LCD Projection and DLP TVs is Sony Grand Wega for LCD Projection, with Panasonic following it up and Samsung for DLP. So if you're looking at an LCD Projection, you're looking at pretty much one of the best ones out there. I just bought the 50" version myself which you may want to consider if you can afford just a little bit more. I originally was going to go with the 42" but with the price difference being only about $200 more for the 50", I went with the bigger screen.

 

[myzhi]

The rainbow effect is the reason I stayed away from DLP, but issues of burn in, viewing angle, lighting, and even image quality were all factors that made me stay away from CRT even though I went in looking to buy one. After reading up all the negative draw backs in comparison to the other technology, it was clear that there is a reason CRT is the cheapest. Sure the newer tech is expensive, but I do think you are paying for better image quality. Maybe a lot more than it should be, but you are.

Never notice the "rainbow effect" only my Samsung 61" DLP. Do you have any example pics?

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

From all the research I've done, the popular favorites in the LCD Projection and DLP TVs is Sony Grand Wega for LCD Projection, with Panasonic following it up and Samsung for DLP. So if you're looking at an LCD Projection, you're looking at pretty much one of the best ones out there. I just bought the 50" version myself which you may want to consider if you can afford just a little bit more. I originally was going to go with the 42" but with the price difference being only about $200 more for the 50", I went with the bigger screen.

Awesome! Thanks

EDIT:
and about the 50" screen.... The price seems to be a bit higher than just a $200 increase over the 42" lol.
42" price = 3,299.99
50" price = 4,499.99
(yes, yes, I know the 42" is on sale... but I'm looking for a tv around that pricepoint)

 

[Marty Chinn]

Sorry, I'm going by US prices so it's hard for me to know how that reflects in Canadian bucks. The retail price here is $3299 vs $2799 so street price wise, it comes down to about $200-$300 difference in the US. I've seen in stores the 42" for $2500 and the 50" for $2850. Online the best price I've seen for both is like $2138 for the 42" and $2369 for the 50".

 

[gofreak]

Never notice the "rainbow effect" only my Samsung 61" DLP. Do you have any example pics?

If you haven't noticed it before, it may be best if it's not pointed out to you - or else you might suddenly start seeing it all over the place on your TV once you know what to look out for. Then again, some DLPs aren't so bad with regard to that, so you might be lucky and have a good model.

 

[Crazymoogle]

If you haven't noticed it before, it may be best if it's not pointed out to you - or else you might suddenly start seeing it all over the place on your TV once you know what to look out for. Then again, some DLPs aren't so bad with regard to that, so you might be lucky and have a good model.

Keep in mind that the rainbow effect is almost completely eliminated in newer 3-chip DLP systems. So even if you can see it on a current model, chances are you won't see it on a newer one.

Check out this and this for more information.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Does having to sit smack-dab in the middle of the set annoy any of you projection TV owners?

 

[darscot]

I think people exagerate the flaws in projection TV's. I have a 57 inch HDTV Sony and it's a great set and looks great. It has it's flaws but it's hard to beat in bang for buck. I also have a 32 HDTV 16x9 Sony. Yes it looks better but it cost allot more. But when I have the guys over to watch a game or a fight the big screen is always the choice. People still act like big screens havent progressed.

 

[heavy liquid]

Sure the newer tech is expensive, but I do think you are paying for better image quality. Maybe a lot more than it should be, but you are.

It depends on the person. As I said, many people prefer the image quality of CRT's over the other technologies... at least for now. Don't crank up your brightness and contrast, and you won't have to worry about burn in. But if you take the time to tweak it (using Avia or Video Essentials, A 1080i CRT picture will look better than a 1080i DLP, LCoS or plasma, IMO. Especially if you're mainly using it for viewing movies. Another big plus for CRT is you won't get the motion blurring and artifacts when things are moving fast on the screen (explosions..etc), a big plus if you watch a lot of sports.

Never notice the "rainbow effect" only my Samsung 61" DLP. Do you have any example pics?

I'm not sure if it's possible to capture the DLP "rainbow effect". Here's a good video simulation of it, however:

http://franckhc.free.fr/AEC1.mpg

It varies from person to person; for some people it's not this bad, but for others it is.

Keep in mind that the rainbow effect is almost completely eliminated in newer 3-chip DLP systems. So even if you can see it on a current model, chances are you won't see it on a newer one.

Hopefully. It depends on the person, though. Some people claim that even the 5x color wheels don't eliminate rainbows for them.

 

[myzhi]

I'm not sure if it's possible to capture the DLP "rainbow effect". Here's a good video simulation of it, however:

http://franckhc.free.fr/AEC1.mpg

It varies from person to person; for some people it's not this bad, but for others it is.



Hopefully. It depends on the person, though. Some people claim that even the 5x color wheels don't eliminate rainbows for them.

Never notice any of that on my Samsung DLP. Also, did some testing, including T2 that crazymoogle posted earlier, and saw zero "rainbow effect." And, given that none of my friends have said about it either after watching hundreds of movies, it's a none issue. Now, if I can get my fiancée to see it, maybe I could get another TV and use the DLP for computer / game consoles.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I just got back from Ciruit City and there clearly is no sweet spot. DLP's look the best but have a bulb that goes pretty quickly and costs ~$500 to replace (200 for bulb plus labor).

Projection sets just suck as far as brightness and image quality.

LCD are cool, but they're LCDs and cost a lot for the amount of screen you get...

Wait.

IMO, anyone vocal about projection sets are owners of them.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Heh I think the most confusing thing is there are LCD screens, and then there is LCD Projection. LCDs suck IMO, but LCD Projection is great =)

DaCoco: Are you serious about the DLP bulb? I know with LCD Projection bulbs, they're easy to replace. DLP aren't and you need someone to come out and replace it?

 

[mrklaw]

I'm just going to completely disagree with you Marty

I have an LCD, a philips 30" panel, and its amazing. HD panel (albeit feeding an SD signal into it - stupid UK), and great quality.

Rear projection by comparison is washed out and has limited viewing angles (my LCD has 170 degree viewing angle horizontally and vertically)

I think though that the comparisons are irrelevant as its a size thing. LCDs don't go above 42", and are priced best at around 32".

LCD rear projection is for 46" upwards. So if you want a really big screen you won't be looking at direct LCD anyway.

Best balance? Small direct view for the news, soaps etc (daily viewing) - front projector for movies etc. Doesn't cost as much as you'd think, and you don't have a big ass black box in the corner of your room.

Can I just mention one thing to the original poster. Be sure that the size you are looking at is enough for you. You mentioned going for the same inches, but in widescreen. Check that out watching some 4:3 programming if thats important to you, as the visible screen size will be smaller.

 

[tmdorsey]

Does having to sit smack-dab in the middle of the set annoy any of you projection TV owners?

Well my tv has a 160 degree horizontal viewing angle, so I never really have to sit in the middle of the set to get a decent image.

 

[Black Deatha]

Can I just mention one thing to the original poster. Be sure that the size you are looking at is enough for you. You mentioned going for the same inches, but in widescreen. Check that out watching some 4:3 programming if thats important to you, as the visible screen size will be smaller.

Oh yeah, I realize that, and I dont mind, because it will be much more worth it for playing games, or watching DVD's (I buy all my DVD's widescreen). And also, I have another question for you guys, when I was at Future SHop, they told me that the HD converter can also work as a digital converter, meaning I could get the few HD channels but also digital ones. Is this true?

What do you guys think about this tv?

Sony Grand WEGA KF42WE610 42" Digital Widescreen LCD TV

Link

I saw those TV's at Future SHop, and they are very nice, but there's one thing that I was suprised about, on the link already posted to that TV, scrole down to the meature list of what it supports and what it doesnt, it says there it doesnt support progressive scanning, what's with that?

~Black Deatha

 

[Fusebox]

I can see DLP rainbows - you either can or you cant, but once you see it you can never unsee it and it freaking sucks. My eyes water and my head hurts after using my DLP projector for more than 2 hours.

 

[Truelize]

to the original poster

Please be aware that only Sony tvs currently support all levels of HD signals. What I mean is most of the current dvd players put out a 480p signal, but most tvs listed as HD ready are 480i, 540p and 1080i compatible. This is a big prolem seeing that a tv that supports only 540p can not use a 480p signal it will just be downgraded into a 480i signal. Which will look a bit better than a standard 480i signal but not by much. Salespeople will not tell you these things. Most of them don't even know it. They just know that they make the least amount of commision on Sony and that the store makes the least amount of money on Sony tvs. Plasmas and DLPs support all levels of HD but we are not talking about those kinds of tvs right now. I just wanted to make that clear.
I have done a ton of reading about rear projection tvs over the last little while. I have a friend that manages a Visions up here in Canada and several friends that I have had to educate that work at Future Shop. I guess they don't mention that to new trainees.

Oh and not only do most dvd players not put out a signal higher than 480p, pretty much no dvds are formatted to push out a signal higher than that either. So it's gonna be a long long time before we are using 1080i on a consistant basis.

So in other words if any of you have purchased a tv from a major electronic department store such as Future Shop or Bestbuy, it would be in your best interest to write a letter to the department manager, the store manager and to the district manager. A close friend bought a "HD ready" Toshiba tv after this past Christmas and was not impressed to find out these things I have just said. He wrote a letter to Future Shop headoffice and they not only apologized they gave him a $500 gift card to put out the fire (note his tv had dropped $500 in price since he bought it but it had been 5 months, well past their price match time). It worked for him. Maybe it will work for you

 

[Crazymoogle]

I can see DLP rainbows - you either can or you cant, but once you see it you can never unsee it and it freaking sucks. My eyes water and my head hurts after using my DLP projector for more than 2 hours.

It's not a universal thing, though. People that can see the DLP effect on 1 chip usually can't see it on 3 chip. As mentioned in this thread, a few people can still see it on 3 or better, but it's definitely a case of dwindling odds, like testing your range of hearing.

But yeah, if you can see it, stop using DLP, because messing with your eyes is a bad idea.

Truelize: Uh, mind explaining or backing that up? Is 540p some PAL standard?

Oh and not only do most dvd players not put out a signal higher than 480p, pretty much no dvds are formatted to push out a signal higher than that either. So it's gonna be a long long time before we are using 1080i on a consistant basis.

DVDs are 480i or 480p, but even 480p is a hack. Period. The spec does not support anything higher. The "DVD"s that do have higher resolutions do not have DVD Playback (Terminator 2 Extreme Edition, for example, is WMP9 format, which means either a PC or a player with a specialized encoding chip).

Higher end DVD players may have line doublers or upconverters to higher resolutions, but its strictly a software thing and doesn't really up your quality.

If you're expecting HD DVDs, you need to wait for the new specs - Blu Ray and HD DVD - and their corresponding new players.

If you're buying HD for use now, there is basically only two reasons: video games or HD cable/satellite.

 

[Black Deatha]

to the original poster

Please be aware that only Sony tvs currently support all levels of HD signals. What I mean is most of the current dvd players put out a 480p signal, but most tvs listed as HD ready are 480i, 540p and 1080i compatible. This is a big prolem seeing that a tv that supports only 540p can not use a 480p signal it will just be downgraded into a 480i signal. Which will look a bit better than a standard 480i signal but not by much. Salespeople will not tell you these things. Most of them don't even know it. They just know that they make the least amount of commision on Sony and that the store makes the least amount of money on Sony tvs. Plasmas and DLPs support all levels of HD but we are not talking about those kinds of tvs right now. I just wanted to make that clear.
I have done a ton of reading about rear projection tvs over the last little while. I have a friend that manages a Visions up here in Canada and several friends that I have had to educate that work at Future Shop. I guess they don't mention that to new trainees.

Oh and not only do most dvd players not put out a signal higher than 480p, pretty much no dvds are formatted to push out a signal higher than that either. So it's gonna be a long long time before we are using 1080i on a consistant basis.

So in other words if any of you have purchased a tv from a major electronic department store such as Future Shop or Bestbuy, it would be in your best interest to write a letter to the department manager, the store manager and to the district manager. A close friend bought a "HD ready" Toshiba tv after this past Christmas and was not impressed to find out these things I have just said. He wrote a letter to Future Shop headoffice and they not only apologized they gave him a $500 gift card to put out the fire (note his tv had dropped $500 in price since he bought it but it had been 5 months, well past their price match time). It worked for him. Maybe it will work for you

Ok, THANK you, I though that was odd, the Hitachi lists that it only does 540p and 1080i. And it makes scence that a 480p DVD would not be able to upconvert to a 540p signal. But what about when it comes to 720p? How would it handel this? would it upconvert it to 1080i or downconvert it to 540p?

Thanks for telling me about this, I will take it under consideration when makeing a decision. I'm suprised that only Sony supports all formats though, I would have thought other companys would be smarter. Though the Sony doesnt do 540p, but it does do 960i. What exactly is that? Is it a 16:9 format too?

~Black Deatha

 

[Crazymoogle]

Hmm, looking into it a bit more, it sounds like some brands (say, older Hitachi) that use a native resolution of 1080i automatically upconvert 480i and 480p into 540p (or 1080i, usually user selectable). Obviously upscaling is going to result in some small quality problems, but I haven't seen anything yet about HD TVs that can't accept a 480p signal.

Example: link

The newest Hitachi TVs seem to have overcome some of these problems and have a 1080p upconvert mode to boot.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Ok, THANK you, I though that was odd, the Hitachi lists that it only does 540p and 1080i. And it makes scence that a 480p DVD would not be able to upconvert to a 540p signal. But what about when it comes to 720p? How would it handel this? would it upconvert it to 1080i or downconvert it to 540p?

Thanks for telling me about this, I will take it under consideration when makeing a decision. I'm suprised that only Sony supports all formats though, I would have thought other companys would be smarter. Though the Sony doesnt do 540p, but it does do 960i. What exactly is that? Is it a 16:9 format too?

~Black Deatha

If the TV is like the Hitachi I linked to, then you basically get a choice in the TV menu - crunch it to 540p or upconvert to 1080i. 480i and p get upconverted either way. This seems to be a money saving design element, so if you want native 720p, look for something else. I'm fairly certain some other non-Sony companies have support, but you'll have to look around at the various brands and grades (or visit the hometheaterforum)

960i sounds like 480i upconverted. This page pretty much confirms it. The Sony supports native 480p, but takes 480i and doubles it, presumably to behave properly with the other scan rates.

720p and 1080i are the only "real" 16x9 formats. 480i/480p can be displayed in either format by altering the picture. Almost all HD TVs support special options for 16:9 DVDs, like scaling or clipping.

 

[Fusebox]

My 32" HD Hitachi plasma doesnt do 720p either, but it upsamples everything to 1080i anyway so it doesnt matter.

 

[mrklaw]

DVDs are 480i or 480p, but even 480p is a hack

what hack? The hack that uses official field flags in the video bitstream to identify and separate the two fields that can be combined to create one, true 480 line image to be displayed?

This only works for film, but takes advantage of the lower framerate of film and the higher recorded framerate of DVD to get increased resolution.

I'd fully expect HD-DVD to do the same. Interlaced 1080i for TV, and using (hopefully more reliable) flags to get 1080p for film.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

DaCoco: Are you serious about the DLP bulb? I know with LCD Projection bulbs, they're easy to replace. DLP aren't and you need someone to come out and replace it?

That's what the salesman said, but then again, he didn't know what it meant to 'calibrate' a set, so take that w/ a grain...

There was a busted DLP bulb next to the 60" Samsung DLP set. It looked just like a projector bulb. One connection... Unless the thing is buried deep in the set, it looks like a DIY job.

But really, w/ a television set, I see no point in haveing to pay hundred after initial purchase just to keep using something I paid thousands for. I just can't justify that.


IMO, XBR's still run sh!t in TVLand.

Well my tv has a 160 degree horizontal viewing angle, so I never really have to sit in the middle of the set to get a decent image.

'Nuff said. The viewing angles they say these sets are viewable at is really a bunch of crap. Lighting is a variable obviously, but because something is 'viewable' doesn't mean it's tolerable.

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

I saw those TV's at Future SHop, and they are very nice, but there's one thing that I was suprised about, on the link already posted to that TV, scrole down to the feature list of what it supports and what it doesnt, it says there it doesnt support progressive scanning, what's with that?

~Black Deatha

Holy crap you're right! Maybe it's just a mistake.