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Conspiracy theories you believe?

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Botolf said:
So the assertion lacking sources is the "cold hard facts", yet the assertion with figures and sources is the one full of inaccuracies.

Is this how you're thinking this through?
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Popular Mechanics is a front for the CIA.
 
Ether_Snake said:
I never saw a trail start and stop, ever. It is continuous.
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I saw it last week. The change in speeds sounds like a likely answers for that.

Here's a video of someone who believes the theory (I reccomend putting it on mute).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBjDSNWiuKQ

It shows a jet turning "it" on at the 50 second mark, and I've seen many where the trail stops as well (lower altitude, or change is speed would be a good reason for this).

Edit: For crappy Youtube video.
 
MacGuffin said:
Elaborate please. Just claiming there are isn't evidence.

That's not true actually.

Jet fuel burns at 1200F (roughly).

Steel's melting point is somewhere around 2700F.

On top of the jet fuel there were additional fuels (rugs, curtains, furniture and paper) located in the buildings that also caught fire . It is estimated that the fire hit 1832°F.

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent."

This is a good read for people unsure about 9/11 or would like to read some science behind the collapses.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1230517.html
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The evidence I'm talking about is molten steel and it extreme bending.

Popularmechanics is full of as much shit as truthers in some of their explanations, especially considering they debunk it using NIST evidence which has been found to alter and leave out evidence to suit them.

Regardless of what you mention that is WEAKENED steel not steel that has melted or been severely bent which would require far more heat. Not only that a steel engineer who knows wtf they are talking about would tell you a building of that size would need far more time at a consistent temperature to actually do what you mentioned. The very science they use to debunks is what sinks their argument. Neither two facts I mentioned can be supported by that claim in any manner and show how people will accept BS on both sides of the aisle to support their claims. The demolition theory is supported by the fact there should be no reason for any amount of thermite within the wreckage, care to explain why there's any amount let alone a moderate amount? One can say for cleanup but the evidence shown in photos and videos is from recent footage well before any major effort took place to even remove tons of wreckage.

For me the most damning is the simple fact that Bush and Cheney never manned up on this issue. You don't want people to talk then let everyone know what you said to congress together at the same time and not under oath. Odd how the pentagon refuses to show any footage of what happened, to shut up truthers. Many things could be done to shut up truthers but the government does more to fuel them than quiet the issue.

I will say this now so there's no confusion alex jones and his types are full of shit and grasping for straws. Engineers and other groups who actually do their work not so much and have valid points. Don't expect to find out anything useful if you get caught up in BS points that have no logic for being supported except to cast FUD on a murky situation that I feel anyone reasonable agrees should be no doubt about.
 
Musashi Wins! said:
Great thread!

I don't "believe", but I find conspiracy theories fascinating. 1) In the same way good fiction/sci fi is fascinating, and 2) it really is a case study in human belief vs. knowledge and which tends to come first and then how we filter information to justify the other. And that subject interests me as does most psychology. Religion is the obvious other common phenomenon which is more sacred but shows many of the same characteristics.
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Agreed. Very little of conspiracy theory lore holds any water under scrutiny, but it's fun to read up on and especially interesting when you get the really hardcore believers talking. As for the major stuff:

I believe Oswald was a lone gunman but did not act alone. The route change was too late for him to have prepared off the cuff, so unless the guy was just bringing a high-powered rifle to work every day just in case, it doesn't add up. I think he was telling the truth (at least in a sense) when he said "I'm just a patsy."

9/11 was not an inside job by any stretch of the imagination. Intelligence was available that could have helped predict or prevent it, and the government's reaction to the attacks was pathetically slow and ineffective, but there's no reason to believe the government was involved. The conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 are just people trying to impose some form of control on a random (well, not really, but from the American citizen's perspective) event.

Extraterrestrials almost certainly exist, but none of them have ever been here.

LCGeek said:
Regardless of what you mention that is WEAKENED steel not steel that has melted or been severely bent which would require far more heat. Not only that a steel engineer who knows wtf would tell you a building of that size would need far more time at a consistent temperature to actually do what you mentioned. The very science they use to debunks is what sinks their argument.
Click to expand...

See? Insanity. These people won't even accept basic physics and metallurgy.
 
LCGeek said:
Regardless of what you mention that is WEAKENED steel not steel that has melted or been severely bent which would require far more heat. Not only that a steel engineer who knows wtf they are talking about would tell....
Click to expand...

Find us one of these steel engineers.
 
MattKei said:
See? Insanity. These people won't even accept basic physics and metallurgy.
Click to expand...

See, no evidence to back a claim that is being made. Saying it doesn't make it true. Unless you're going to back up and prove what I mentioned is false, you're just as insane as you claim I am. I guess these individuals are insane as well despite they are far better informed and haven poven themselves more than either one of us could on the subjects.

Ad Homenem 101

Physics and metallurgy are useless to mention when the person using it as basis is more clueless than the one they attack.

Spoony the list is the link.
 
United 93 was shot down.

The road construction companies in Utah must have a huge lobbying arm because construction never stops. Par example, while I was in high school there was a huge construction project that took 3 years to complete on a major road. Less than six months after completion another 2 year project was announced on the same damn road. After that project was done just one year after completion another 3 year project was announced for the same road. I've never seen so much road construction ever in my life anywhere.
 
LCGeek said:
Physics and metallurgy are useless to mention when the person using it as basis is more clueless than the one they attack.
Click to expand...

But the previous explanation is correct and what you are claiming is wrong. The temperatures were not hot enough to melt steel into its liquid state, but severely weakening it is plenty when you're dealing with something the mass of one of the WTC towers.

It's certainly possible that basing data on the NIST findings is a bad idea, but it's not enough to suddenly drag in the idea that pre-planted thermite was required to blow the structures. This administration couldn't even respond to a hurricane adequately. How the hell did they rig two of the largest and most trafficked buildings in the world for demolition without anyone noticing? Did they kill the people who rigged it, too, just to guarantee their silence?

Any conspiracy theory regarding 9/11 is far easier to debunk than the "official" story.
 
ronito said:
United 93 was shot down.

The road construction companies in Utah must have a huge lobbying arm because construction never stops. Par example, while I was in high school there was a huge construction project that took 3 years to complete on a major road. Less than six months after completion another 2 year project was announced on the same damn road. After that project was done just one year after completion another 3 year project was announced for the same road. I've never seen so much road construction ever in my life anywhere.
Click to expand...
As far as the state DOT stuff goes, it's always going to be that way. The roads require constant maintenance, especially if you have snow. The salt used for de-icing causes potholes which will always need patched.

It's like that in Ohio, the road construction NEVER stops. Here in Ohio we have 3 seasons... HOT, COLD, and CONSTRUCTION. Our state flower? The orange barrel
 
MattKeil said:
But the previous explanation is correct and what you are claiming is wrong. The temperatures were not hot enough to melt steel into its liquid state, but severely weakening it is plenty when you're dealing with something the mass of one of the WTC towers.

It's certainly possible that basing data on the NIST findings is a bad idea, but it's not enough to suddenly drag in the idea that pre-planted thermite was required to blow the structures. This administration couldn't even respond to a hurricane adequately. How the hell did they rig two of the largest and most trafficked buildings in the world for demolition without anyone noticing? Did they kill the people who rigged it, too, just to guarantee their silence?

Any conspiracy theory regarding 9/11 is far easier to debunk than the "official" story.
Click to expand...

No you're claiming they are wrong based on BS you read. I could understand if you were in the field and backed it up but all I heard was you're insane and wrong with nothing behind it.

I never disagreed with what you said. My point was simple at no time during the entire 9/11 incident were any of the fuel sources mentioned hot enough to melt steel or bend it in the fashion evidence left has shown us. Yes the mass of WTC played in to but it ignores metallurgy in general which requires massive amounts of time to melt and bend metal from the result we saw. I don't need an explanation from someone who ignored those facts to support their perspective.

The evidence to support the idea of demolitions is thermite or other explosive chemicals being present at all before the actual crews who were sent in to recycle and destroy evidence came in.

The administration did not commit 9/11 only the possibility individuals in it there's a big difference between a conspiracy and a government effort to kill it citizens both of which have happened in US history in various ways. As proven conspiracies that have been done by mobs or government individuals has show us time and time again it's not done by the whole rather a few exploiting the whole.
 
1. Illuminati and the New World Order
2. Freemasonry, and their global control

1 and 2 are heavily linked with each other, and there is so much depth regarding these topics. 911 is obviously a pretty popular conspiracy theory and another one I believe, orchestrated by the Illuminati.
 
Cyan said:
Sorry guys but:

-9/11 inside job
-moon landing faked
-chemtrails to control our brains

are all wrong according to Awesome's Razor.

You guys fail.
Click to expand...
No, don't you see, the government faked the moon landings and instead used the rockets to spray us with mind-controlling poison supplemented by chemtrails which in turn caused us to be unable to notice all those people planting thermite at the WTC.
 
hmmm....

1. I agree Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't have acted alone.

2. I don't think the US government caused 9-11, but they at best were inept and ignored it and at worse let it happen.

3. I think George W Bush has no real power and is (was) simply a puppet for a Neo-conservative consortium.

4. I think the destabilisation of the Middle East that has occurred because of the war in Iraq is exactly what the aims were.

5. As far as aliens go I'm sure they exist, but I don't think they've ever come to Earth.
 
MattKeil said:
Agreed. Very little of conspiracy theory lore holds any water under scrutiny, but it's fun to read up on and especially interesting when you get the really hardcore believers talking. As for the major stuff:

I believe Oswald was a lone gunman but did not act alone. The route change was too late for him to have prepared off the cuff, so unless the guy was just bringing a high-powered rifle to work every day just in case, it doesn't add up. I think he was telling the truth (at least in a sense) when he said "I'm just a patsy."

9/11 was not an inside job by any stretch of the imagination. Intelligence was available that could have helped predict or prevent it, and the government's reaction to the attacks was pathetically slow and ineffective, but there's no reason to believe the government was involved. The conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 are just people trying to impose some form of control on a random (well, not really, but from the American citizen's perspective) event.

Extraterrestrials almost certainly exist, but none of them have ever been here.



See? Insanity. These people won't even accept basic physics and metallurgy.
Click to expand...


This is fucking funny shit.

So you don't believe that rich people wouldn't allow something to happen to make a sudden turn of events possible to make them more rich?

Buuuuuuuuuut you believe in the spooky little green guys flying saucers around.

Awesome logic we have here.
Prime example of why other countries see us as fat, stupid americans and laugh at us.
 
MattKeil said:
But the previous explanation is correct and what you are claiming is wrong. The temperatures were not hot enough to melt steel into its liquid state, but severely weakening it is plenty when you're dealing with something the mass of one of the WTC towers.

It's certainly possible that basing data on the NIST findings is a bad idea, but it's not enough to suddenly drag in the idea that pre-planted thermite was required to blow the structures. This administration couldn't even respond to a hurricane adequately. How the hell did they rig two of the largest and most trafficked buildings in the world for demolition without anyone noticing? Did they kill the people who rigged it, too, just to guarantee their silence?

Any conspiracy theory regarding 9/11 is far easier to debunk than the "official" story.
Click to expand...


Yes!

BECUZ THEY WERE JEALOUS OF OUR FREEDUM HUH?

Please go watch more Fox news.
 
-viper- said:
1. Illuminati and the New World Order
2. Freemasonry, and their global control

1 and 2 are heavily linked with each other, and there is so much depth regarding these topics. 911 is obviously a pretty popular conspiracy theory and another one I believe, orchestrated by the Illuminati.
Click to expand...
so they want world control? What do they plan on doing with it?
 
Comedyworks said:
This is fucking funny shit.

So you don't believe that rich people wouldn't allow something to happen to make a sudden turn of events possible to make them more rich?

Buuuuuuuuuut you believe in the spooky little green guys flying saucers around.

Awesome logic we have here.
Prime example of why other countries see us as fat, stupid americans and laugh at us.
Click to expand...

Why is it so hard for you to believe?

It's extremely arrogant to think WE'RE the only life out there.
 
Comedyworks said:
This is fucking funny shit.

So you don't believe that rich people wouldn't allow something to happen to make a sudden turn of events possible to make them more rich?

Buuuuuuuuuut you believe in the spooky little green guys flying saucers around.

Awesome logic we have here.
Prime example of why other countries see us as fat, stupid americans and laugh at us.
Click to expand...

ummmm no he's saying that it's likely that extraterrestrials exist. He said nothing about them flying about. They could be like us, and never really leave our orbit.
 
Comedyworks said:
This is fucking funny shit.

So you don't believe that rich people wouldn't allow something to happen to make a sudden turn of events possible to make them more rich?

Buuuuuuuuuut you believe in the spooky little green guys flying saucers around.

Awesome logic we have here.
Prime example of why other countries see us as fat, stupid americans and laugh at us.
Click to expand...
The probability that there is absolutely know life ANYWHERE in the universe is much lower than 9/11 being an inside job.
 
jecclr2003 said:
Why is it so hard for you to believe?

It's extremely arrogant to think WE'RE the only life out there.
Click to expand...


Actually I do believe they exist but I was trying to make a point about how some people are quick to believe in something they never saw before in their entire life vs obvious things that are right in front of their eyes.

Edit:
On a side note, Fox news does one hell of a job brainwashing america boy I'll tell ya.
 
Since I live in PA I've heard of this conspiracy multiple times, but have you guys ever heard of the The Philadelphia Experiment conspiracy? To me some of it seems believable, making a ship invisible by applying part of a unified field theory, bending light around an object. However the teleporting aspect of the conspiracy sounds pretty crazy. My favorite part of all of this is the conspiracies with Einstein and Tesla:

No fully developed Unified Field Theory currently exists, even though it is still a subject of ongoing research. William Moore's book on the experiment claims it was purported that Albert Einstein completed, and subsequently destroyed, such a theory before his death.[9]

Also, shortly before his death in 1943, Nikola Tesla claimed to have completed a Unified Field Theory; however, it was never published.[10] Relatives of Nikola Tesla propose that much of Tesla's research papers were seized by the FBI promptly following his death, and highlight the apparent coincidence between the year of his death and the supposed date of the Philadelphia Experiment.
Click to expand...

Here is the history channel special on it:

The True Story of The Philadelphia Experiment - Part I
The True Story of The Philadelphia Experiment - Part II
 
genjiZERO said:
1. I agree Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't have acted alone.
Click to expand...

Why? I mean, how hard is it to get a gun, find a position, and shoot someone? Really.

2. I don't think the US government caused 9-11, but they at best were inept and ignored it and at worse let it happen.
Click to expand...

Which isn't a conspiracy for the first part. The "let it happen" means that when/if the story comes out (and it always does), there's gonna be hell to pay for a lot of people.
3. I think George W Bush has no real power and is (was) simply a puppet for a Neo-conservative consortium.
Click to expand...

Why? What makes you think that? The fact that most the republicans are pissed off at him? The fact that nobody really likes him? The fact that directly because of him we have a long while of Democrats in power?
4. I think the destabilisation of the Middle East that has occurred because of the war in Iraq is exactly what the aims were.
Click to expand...

Why would you think that? How in the world is the destabilization helping anybody?
5. As far as aliens go I'm sure they exist, but I don't think they've ever come to Earth.
Click to expand...

This one is agreeable at least. Except for the doubt. That one should be modified "for a great, great while". BEcause if we do make contact, they're gonna come to earth. Or Erf.

(gonna get killed for that one!)
 
Comedyworks said:
This is fucking funny shit.

So you don't believe that rich people wouldn't allow something to happen to make a sudden turn of events possible to make them more rich?

Buuuuuuuuuut you believe in the spooky little green guys flying saucers around.

Awesome logic we have here.
Prime example of why other countries see us as fat, stupid americans and laugh at us.
Click to expand...
You're an idiot.

"Extraterrestrials" refers to life existing away from planet Earth, not "spooky little green guys flying saucers around". Do you have any fucking clue how ridiculously large the universe is? How many varied sets of initial conditions there are, on untold planets circles untold stars in untold galaxies? And you think that we, human beings, are the ONLY LIFEFORMS IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING UNIVERSE?

Go eat a dick.
 
Feep said:
You're an idiot.

"Extraterrestrials" refers to life existing away from planet Earth, not "spooky little green guys flying saucers around". Do you have any fucking clue how ridiculously large the universe is? How many varied sets of initial conditions there are, on untold planets circles untold stars in untold galaxies? And you think that we, human beings, are the ONLY LIFEFORMS IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING UNIVERSE?

Go eat a dick.
Click to expand...


Maybe you should read the other posts that were below this one and you'd see that I was being sarcastic.
 
Well the main beneficiaries of the war in Iraq are Iran(the largest by a country mile) and the Military/Para-military sectors. The more I think about it....I wonder how many folks from the Iran-Contra days are connected to the offices responsible for the war movement.
 
Comedyworks said:
Maybe you should read the other posts that were below this one and you'd see that I was being sarcastic.
Click to expand...
When I responded, your post was not yet on the page; I would have needed to refresh. Regardless, you fail at sarcasm.
 
Feep said:
When I responded, your post was not yet on the page; I would have needed to refresh. Regardless, you fail at sarcasm.
Click to expand...


Or maybe you just fail at being able to tell the difference between the two?
I'm gonna go back to eatting dicks now. (SARCASM)
 
I'm just going to assume every one of his posts is sarcasm, since the alternative is that he's a cup of coffee away from being on the corner with an "End is Nigh! Repent You FOX watchers!" sign.
 
Cashman log off Gaf, hire an agent and book a show at the local comedy club, YOU'RE GOING PLACES KID!

Back to the topic at hand, I actually DO believe that aliens exist.
 
jecclr2003 said:
As far as the state DOT stuff goes, it's always going to be that way. The roads require constant maintenance, especially if you have snow. The salt used for de-icing causes potholes which will always need patched.

It's like that in Ohio, the road construction NEVER stops. Here in Ohio we have 3 seasons... HOT, COLD, and CONSTRUCTION. Our state flower? The orange barrel
Click to expand...
not entirely true. I've lived in states that get more snow than Utah and they don't have year round construction. Utah and Ohio must be in the same lot.
 
I can think of a few reasons why people don't pay much attention to conspiracy theorists:

- There's a conspiracy theory for damn near everything.
- Specious reasoning/appeals to motive abound (Theorist implicates the government and starts to draw a bunch of connections between everything, looks back at the whole and is pleased with his conclusions)
- Theorists are quick to shout "they're in on it!" or "sheep!" when they start losing an argument.
 
SpoonyBard said:
Who the hell claims that it was planned by few men in a cave? You watch too much stand-up comedy...
Click to expand...

*sigh*

It's been thrown around in this thread, I read all the pages. Did you?

OK how bout planned by a small amount of people less than 100 most likely... Still doesn't change the difference of sophistication and power between terrorists and the government. Crack all the one liners you want the fact that it would take people with infinitely more tools at their disposal that much more manpower is one of the funnier ways misguided truthers are discredited.
 
AmishNazi said:
*sigh*

It's been thrown around in this thread, I read all the pages. Did you?

OK how bout planned by a small amount of people less than 100 most likely... Still doesn't change the difference of sophistication and power between terrorists and the government. Crack all the one liners you want the fact that it would take people with infinitely more tools at their disposal that much more manpower is one of the funnier ways misguided truthers are discredited.
Click to expand...

Osama Bin Laden is pretty smart guy as far as I know, and he has money and connections... and it's not like he's surrounded by morons, even if they may be somewhat religious when it suits them. Saying "few men in a cave" is just silly.
 
LCGeek said:
What any power monger hungry group or person does, whatever they feel like, stalin anybody?
Click to expand...
So they felt like being discredited as a movement and losing all power and influence?


AmishNazi said:
Thing that always cracks me up about the 9/11 mistruths (both sides) is that a few men in a cave could plan it, but if our government was involved it'd take HUNDREDS of people.
Click to expand...
Not this "agnostic" bullshit yet again. Unless by "without knowledge" you mean, you're completely ignorant.

The idea that it's simpler to orchestrate a coverup that looks like a terrorist attack, than for terrorists to carry out a terrorist attack in the first place, should strain the credulity of any intelligent human being.
 
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