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[wsippel]

Devil's Third is coming next year. By the very same guy who created your beloved Ninja Gaiden. Granted, it's a TPS/ character action hybrid and the first gameplay demo looked a bit rough, but we'll see how it turns out. Tokyo Vikings reportedly made massive improvements since E3.

Also, regardless of sales, I think Bayonetta 2 was ultimately worth it from a PR and marketing perspective. I wouldn't be surprised to see a third one, I'm sure Nintendo signed an option with Sega and Platinum. And really, it still easily outsold any recent Fatal Frame title, yet Nintendo continues to produce those games as well.

 

[Lady Gaia]

If you love the genre, make sure everyone you know who remembers it fondly picks up Bayoneeta 2. The don't even have to buy a Wii U. Just make sure sales of this phenomenal title make waves.

 

[ninjablade]

It's tied for the highest rate actually.

Not if you include gamerankings.

 

[Sayad]

God of War isn't really a character action game though, very different goals and limited combo potential. In any case God of War games run at 60 FPS as much as any platinum game on console does

Spoiler

2% of the time

But it is! And its combo potential is about as much as Ninja Gaiden and MGR, it's just a different style of character action games, the same way DMC and Bayo emphasis on combos, Ninja Gaiden on fast action and MGR on parry, GoW combat is more about crowed control(for the most part). It's not as good(imo) but if you want to exclude it, just say "Japanese" character action games. ;p

 

[BadWolf]

NG3 was not a good game.

Bayonetta 2 is exclusive to a console most of it's fan base didn't buy.

DmC was destined to fail from day 1, you do not reboot something that iconic in this way.

 

[ninjablade]

Devil's Third is coming next year. By the very same guy who created your beloved Ninja Gaiden. Granted, it's a TPS/ character action hybrid and the first gameplay demo looked a bit rough, but we'll see how it turns out. Tokyo Vikings reportedly made massive improvements since E3.

Also, regardless of sales, I think Bayonetta 2 was ultimately worth it from a PR and marketing perspective. I wouldn't be surprised to see a third one, I'm sure Nintendo signed an option with Sega and Platinum. And really, it still easily outsold any recent Fatal Frame title, yet Nintendo continues to produce those games as well.

this depends on the budget. if Bayo 2 bombs bad which it probably will, why not have platinum make a zelda, Mario or metroid action game, where they could actually benefit from sales. Nintendo has a few franchises that need funding themselves with way more sales potential, so I doubt it, but anything is possible.

 

[ninjablade]

NG3 was not a good game.

Bayonetta 2 is exclusive to a console most of it's fan base didn't buy.

DmC was destined to fail from day 1, you do not reboot something that iconic in this way.

which goes back to my main point, all those franchise are not looking good right now, and might never get sequels.

 

[ArjanN]

Other problems with the game aside, DmC was 60FPS on PC.

No reason to play that on console.

 

[Clawww]

it's pretty shitty times as a character action fan

I'll pick up Bayo 2 but frankly Bayonetta never did it for me like NG or DMC for some reason so I'm not super satisfied for the time being

 

[Rising_Hei]

Microsoft exclusive and dinosaurs.
This reminds me of Dino Crisis 3....

 

[Jakoozie89]

It's hilariously sad to me that the hardcore fans that most want another Devil May Cry game are the ones responsible for making the franchise die. The fanboy rage over stupid things such as Dante's hair color gave the game a bad rep on message boards and the like, and more niche titles like these need fans to sing the game's praises to succeed.

I liked DMC. It was a good ride.

 

[NeonZ]

Im not sure scalebound is going to be a action game at all. Its going to be something more like okami.

As for hack slash in general, they are going to leave the marketplace for one simple reason.

They cannot justify their costs.

The realistic upper limit for an action game is 2 million sold.

Yes GOW sells more, but GOW ups the stakes in production values that no other action game can.

I think that its no getting to the stage were unless its a smaller DL title; action games just wont break even.

We will still see a few more attempts, ik sure at the very least, we will see another NG and GOW and we might get a DMC late in the gen, but past that, im not confident we will see anything more outside of indies.

Couldn't they just go for a lower budget? Koei's Warrior games seem to have survived just fine through the PS3 gen selling at best one million.

Now, I know that the opinion about those games is mostly negative, but isn't that more related to their core gameplay, rather than their budget? The core level design and such also is fairly different, but I don't see why a character action game would need such a high budget.

 

[Clawww]

this depends on the budget. if Bayo 2 bombs bad which it probably will, why not have platinum make a zelda, Mario or metroid action game, where they could actually benefit from sales. Nintendo has a few franchises that need funding themselves with way more sales potential, so I doubt it, but anything is possible.

Captain Falcon action game

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Which, as seen last wek, people don't seem to be willing to accept the compromises of a DL action game of this kind. So...

Dust did well.

I believe aztez and oknikai will do well.

The problem with Korra is that it feels like a paired down AAA title. I think platinum can still have some success with the same budget, they just need more time for refinement.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Just by looking at sales trends, ninja gaiden 3, bayonetta and DMC(30fps) reboot all are pretty much considered failures/bomba in terms of sales. I think the only one left that can generate sales is MGSR2 cause of the MGS IP tied to it. after we confirm bayonetta 2 bombing in the US, MGSR2 could be the last retail 60fps hack & slash we see this gen which is just sad.

I think Nintendo "owns" Bayonetta ip now as much as it "owns" the Fatal Frame ip. Fatal Frame games are not especially big seller but Nintendo continuous to make them for their systems.

Perhaps we will see Bayonetta 3 for the next Nintendo console even if the sales of Bayonetta 2 are not high.

But I think Bayonetta 2 could achieve US/EU sales in the Hyrule Warriors range and that would be pretty good.

 

[Betty]

MGR2 would be a dream come true.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Couldn't they just go for a lower budget? Koei's Warrior games seem to have survived just fine through the PS3 gen selling at best one million.

Now, I know that the opinion about those games is mostly negative, but isn't that more related to their core gameplay, rather than their budget? The core level design and such also is fairly different, but I don't see why a character action game would need such a high budget.

My personal view is that alot of these games budgets get swallowed by designing a combat system that works and the animations around it.

Nothing else explains why these type of games take so long to be made (the best stylish action games tend to be in development for 4 or so years)

Its one of the reason why I felt capcom outaourced DMC in the first place. It was nothing to do with them not seeing the potential in the series anymore, it is that actiom games just need alot more care and love to get right.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I want some of them in 2D. Pixel May Cry is an awesome piece of concept.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smJ7TBoTN94 aztez

http://vimeo.com/89267994 onikria demon killer

 

[BadWolf]

which goes back to my main point, all those franchise are not looking good right now, and might never get sequels.

The thing is that Itsuno and his team were busy on Dragon's Dogma, they couldn't have worked on DMC5 regardless at the time.

Capcom has already said that Devil May Cry is one of their key pillars and we haven't heard from Itsuno since he finished working on Dragon's Dogma, not to mention he expressed desire to work on a new DMC. So I would be very surprised if DMC5 isn't in the works.

Team Ninja is also working on a next gen NG.

We also know SSM is working on a new GOW.

MGR2 is pretty much a lock.

So yea, I don't think things look bad at all. These games just take time to make. It's not like they hit year one on the PS360, most of them hit 2+ years into their cycle.

It's hilariously sad to me that the hardcore fans that most want another Devil May Cry game are the ones responsible for making the franchise die. The fanboy rage over stupid things such as Dante's hair color gave the game a bad rep on message boards and the like, and more niche titles like these need fans to sing the game's praises to succeed.

I liked DMC. It was a good ride.

Probably the best example of a fan base voting with their wallets.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Ther are genres we're getting way less titles in. Last year, we got MGR, W101, GoW:A and DmC. This year we got Bayo 2 and Korra and Devil's Third is on its way. A new God of War is likely and I'm pretty confident Rising 2 will happen. And no, we don't know what Scalebound will be, but it could be character action as well.

Also, we're seeing its influence in indies like Aztez, which Saur did a nice preview for.

 

[DXLelouch153]

oh god imagine a Platinum Games Metroid
just imagne that sick Bayo 2 intro battle but replace Gomorrah with Ridley

 

[Scoot2005]

Bayo 2 bombed in the US? I haven't been paying attention. Are any indicators there or is it just a prediction?

 

[SonyToo!™]

NG3 was not a good game.

Bayonetta 2 is exclusive to a console most of it's fan base didn't buy.

DmC was destined to fail from day 1, you do not reboot something that iconic in this way.

Will publishers like Capcom see it that way though? I think they are just as likely to put much of the blame down to the playerbase, one that has high standards, very easy to piss off and unlike niche fanbases isn't prepared to migrate to the hardware the games are released on.

Why risk money on them when they can make a half baked MMO lite that millions of gamers will lap up.

 

[ninjablade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smJ7TBoTN94 aztez

http://vimeo.com/89267994 onikria demon killer

Onikira has my attention.

 

[Tizoc]

But NG3 and DmC were shit

DmC 2013 was good.

 

[Nemmy]

My personal view is that alot of these games budgets get swallowed by designing a combat system that works and the animations around it.

Nothing else explains why these type of games take so long to be made (the best stylish action games tend to be in development for 4 or so years)

Its one of the reason why I felt capcom outaourced DMC in the first place. It was nothing to do with them not seeing the potential in the series anymore, it is that actiom games just need alot more care and love to get right.

I don't know if it's a standard in development of those games but if I recall Kamiya's LP of Bayonetta properly, a lot of mechanics in that game were created by developers brainstorming and experimenting with different prototypes. I seem to remember him mentioning dodge offset as one of the late additions (though I might be talking out of my ass here, been a while since I watched the LP). This sounds very time consuming, and obviously time is money.
Plus obviously character action games need lots of balancing work et cetera that can hardly be done on paper, otherwise you get broken shit like devil dodge -> axe combo obliterating everything with SSS ranks in DmC.

It would be great to get hard data on just how much of a character action game's budget is the overall spectacle, like over the top cutscenes and so on, and how much is spent to get the actual meat of the game working.

 

[sn00zer]

They are basically master class in control and movement design making them difficult to make in the first place. Sadly, because so much focus is put on action/movement level design, and really pretty much everything else take a huge hit and you are stuck with arena combat ala PS2-era. God of War is probably the only stylish action game with some effort behind the level design, but that cost an ungodly amount of money. God of War level/game design with a Japanese sense of movement/attack action would be incredible.

 

[Peff]

Dust did well.

I believe aztez and oknikai will do well.

The problem with Korra is that it feels like a paired down AAA title. I think platinum can still have some success with the same budget, they just need more time for refinement.

True, but I'm not sure that the "game first, money later" approach of these titles is viable for a company like Platinum. Even then, for low budget 3D games Korra is probably not too far from the ceiling of what can be realistically achieved, so those would likely disappear.

 

[BadWolf]

Will publishers like Capcom see it that way though? I think they are just as likely to put much of the blame down to the playerbase, one that has high standards, very easy to piss off and unlike niche fanbases isn't prepared to migrate to the hardware the games are released on.

Why risk money on them when they can make a half baked MMO lite that millions of gamers will lap up.

Capcom has already said that it considers the Devil May Cry series as one of their key IPs, this was after the release of DmC.

GOW may be the best selling in the genre but Devil May Cry is easily the most iconic.

 

[WarRock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smJ7TBoTN94 aztez

http://vimeo.com/89267994 onikria demon killer

Been following Aztez but did not know about Onikira. Newer video is great:

http://vimeo.com/109924940

 

[Spinosaurus]

Not as long as I'm here

Spoiler

all my friends are dead yada yada

I doubt it, honestly. They'll probably get rarer and rarer as time goes, unfortunately. I'm hopeful for MGR2, though.

 

[ninjablade]

Been following Aztez but did not know about Onikira. Newer video is great:

http://vimeo.com/109924940

I would love platinum to make 3d action game in that style, I guess jetstream Sam in MGR is close enough.

 

[vg260]

Those games require practice and attention so yes they will be dead soon.

More so than Dark Souls? That sub(?)-genre seems to be growing fast, and it requires much more patience and attention.

 

[danmaku]

It's hilariously sad to me that the hardcore fans that most want another Devil May Cry game are the ones responsible for making the franchise die. The fanboy rage over stupid things such as Dante's hair color gave the game a bad rep on message boards and the like, and more niche titles like these need fans to sing the game's praises to succeed.

I liked DMC. It was a good ride.

The fans are the only ones that actually bought the game. The casuals that were supposed to be attracted by the new coat of western paint never showed up, that's why DmC failed.

 

[jett]

It was never that popular. DMC4 was the best selling in the franchise and it didn't crack 3 million units over two consoles. And that wasn't considered successful enough for Capcom.

God of War is the only franchise that is mainstream popular, but Ascension might have put a dent in that.

 

[Cave Johnson]

As long there is a market that supports this genre, than there is still hope for this trend to continue. Just as long as they don't unrealistically scale up like other AAA titles that demand X million to succeed. These games don't have the market (sadly) framework and following to back up that kind of requirement. Even GOW:A proved that the formula aren't immune to the current market.

 

[Maxim726X]

Ninja Gaiden was always average in terms of gameplay but 2 was very well marketed. DMC4 was coming of the fantastic DMC3 and was Capcom's first next gen game that was a sequel to one of their legacy franchises.

Have you played Ninja Gaiden Black?

It's the pinnacle of the genre. Though admittedly I haven't played Bayonetta 2 yet.

DmC 2013 was good.

It really was. Sadly the endless fanboy bitching and whining ruined the game before it was even released.

 

[Neff]

It's hilariously sad to me that the hardcore fans that most want another Devil May Cry game are the ones responsible for making the franchise die. The fanboy rage over stupid things such as Dante's hair color gave the game a bad rep on message boards and the like, and more niche titles like these need fans to sing the game's praises to succeed.

I liked DMC. It was a good ride.

The DMC HD trilogy sold better than DmC did, so the message to Capcom is clear that people are still interested in these games, just not ones handled in a cynical, ham-fisted attempt to appease casual players.

 

[SonyToo!™]

Capcom has already said that it considers the Devil May Cry series as one of their key IPs, this was after the release of DmC.

GOW may be the best selling in the genre but Devil May Cry is easily the most iconic.

Well fingers crossed an Itsuno DMC5 will happen, it probably depends on the success of Dragon's Dogma / Souls clones they'll be pumping out this gen as to if Capcom will free up resources to make another.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Ninja Gaiden was always average in terms of gameplay but 2 was very well marketed.

Wut

 

[jett]

The DMC HD trilogy sold better than DmC did, so the message to Capcom is clear that people are still interested in these games, just not ones handled in a cynical, ham-fisted attempt to appease casual players.

That's not true, DMC HD doesn't even appear on this list

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html

 

[wsippel]

this depends on the budget. if Bayo 2 bombs bad which it probably will, why not have platinum make a zelda, Mario or metroid action game, where they could actually benefit from sales. Nintendo has a few franchises that need funding themselves with way more sales potential, so I doubt it, but anything is possible.

Sure, it depends on the budget, but just from a marketing standpoint, Bayonetta 2 was probably cheaper and ultimately more effective than a TV campaign - I assume a Platinum developed Zelda wouldn't have had the same impact. Also, Nintendo already has teams to develop Mario and Zelda, and they need a broader portfolio. That's the whole point behind their partnerships and publishing deals. Their own teams are pretty damn good at what they do, but they can't do everything.

 

[Zukuu]

No. I don't see them getting several movies and TV shows.

 

[Neff]

That's not true, DMC HD doesn't even appear on this list

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html

You're right, I'm confusing launch sales with lifetime sales.

 

[BadWolf]

More so than Dark Souls? That sub(?)-genre seems to be growing fast, and it requires much more patience and attention.

Definitely.

That's not true, DMC HD doesn't even appear on this list

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html

DMC4 isn't on that list either, it sold way more than DmC.

 

[jett]

Definitely.



DMC4 isn't on that list either, it sold way more than DmC.

Click ALL.

 

[Neff]

DMC4 isn't on that list either, it sold way more than DmC.

DMC4 is on the next page, 2.9m sold.

 

[WarRock]

No. I don't see them getting several movies and TV shows.

Uh. DMC got some anime shorts years ago. Don't see anything about GoW/Bayo/DMC/NG that could not be adapted as action flicks or animations easily.

 

[BadWolf]

Click ALL.

DMC4 is on the next page, 2.9m sold.

Ah, my bad

Though it does seem to mostly list individual games and not collections.

 

[ninjablade]

It was never that popular. DMC4 was the best selling in the franchise and it didn't crack 3 million units over two consoles. And that wasn't considered successful enough for Capcom.

God of War is the only franchise that is mainstream popular, but Ascension might have put a dent in that.

when DMC4 came the genre was a lot healthier. ninja gaiden 2 for example broke a million on 360 alone in 2 months. Now based on DMC, ninja gaiden 3 and even the new GOW sales, the genre looks like it's in big trouble, on the verge of death really.