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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member


I wonder what's going to happen to Moderna and J&J? Wouldn't they need their EUA revoked with Pfizer fully approved and readily available?

If this Monday approval is true, then the timing of this news that U.S. health officials are reviewing reports that Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine may be linked to a higher risk of a rare heart condition in younger adults than previously thought sure is interesting.

 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Guys guys come on now I'm sure that the concern over the emergency approval was entirely genuine and now that full approval is on the way it means that many of the people in this thread and beyond it who were previously against the vaccine will maturely admit that the situation has changed and that their views have as well.


And then this thread can go from being a debate about the vaccine and to be more about news regarding it safe implementation and recommendation.


🙂

You don't think there is any basis for concerns surrounding the rushed full FDA approval? The special treatment the Pfizer vaccine would be getting is unheard of. They submitted their application for full approval on the 5th of May. If this comes in Monday, it will have been a mere three and a half months since they applied and now the FDA is talking about cutting parts of the process that increase transparency.

 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I don't think it's fair at all to call people who are skeptical about these very particular vaccines and how they were rushed to market "anti-vaxxers."
4.91 billion doses have been administered. Huge upsides with countless lives saved, minor downsides steeped in conspiracy theories. Being a covid antivaxxer is far worse than being an MMR autism antivaxxer in terms of bottom line to society. The autism hoax also targeted low intelligence, low information people who clung to faith-based positions in disregard of mountains of evidence, however.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Well There It Is Jurassic Park GIF
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
4.91 billion doses have been administered. Huge upsides with countless lives saved, minor downsides steeped in conspiracy theories. Being a covid antivaxxer is far worse than being an MMR autism antivaxxer in terms of bottom line to society. The autism hoax also targeted low intelligence, low information people who clung to faith-based positions in disregard of mountains of evidence, however.
 
Brace for anti-vaxxer meltdowns as every company in the US will now mandate it since it's FDA approved.
The cynic in me is looking forward to the coming segregation and the resulting further destabilization of western society. It will be extremely bad, but at least life will never be boring :messenger_smirking:
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I don't think it's fair at all to call people who are skeptical about these very particular vaccines and how they were rushed to market "anti-vaxxers."

With that said, if this is the process under which every future vaccine gets approved, then yeah, you're probably going to see a lot more anti-vaxxers in the future.

There are actually a good number of people out there waiting for these to be fully approved by the FDA, because they still trust in that traditionally rigorous and transparent review process and just didn't want to get them on an emergency use authorization basis. We already have more vaccines than there is demand in this country, so the only reason to give them full FDA approval at this point is to further legitimize them, but I think the opposite effect will be had if the FDA cuts corners and rushes the full approval process.
Well the good news is that full approval is apparently on the way so your concerns will be gone here pretty soon. Then we can finally move past this idea that the vaccine is somehow unsafe or whatever. Praise be.
 
Well the good news is that full approval is apparently on the way so your concerns will be gone here pretty soon. Then we can finally move past this idea that the vaccine is somehow unsafe or whatever. Praise be.
You can feel smug all you want, but when the number of (actual) anti-vaxxers grows from 10% to 30% because FDA approval became a worthless procedure, you can kiss herd immunity goodbye for any serious virus.

Morgan Freeman Good Luck GIF
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Is that story being covered by a reliable source somewhere? Because "Western Journal" is uh....yeah....not that.

I linked it above as a Yahoo! News article and there is a Tweet of Reuter's reporting right in the article you didn't look at.

It doesn't really look like that big of a deal (potentially), but the timing of the investigation being opened alongside Pfizer's fast-tracked approval certainly is curious.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
You can feel smug all you want, but when the number of (actual) anti-vaxxers grows from 10% to 30% because FDA approval became a worthless procedure, you can kiss herd immunity goodbye for any serious virus.
Good thing it's not becoming a worthless procedure then isn't it. 🙄
 

12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
The cynic in me is looking forward to the coming segregation and the resulting further destabilization of western society. It will be extremely bad, but at least life will never be boring :messenger_smirking:

I think a deep dissatisfaction or disillusionment with ones life is what most of these so-called "do your own research skeptics" have in common. once they find meaning in their life, most of this garbage goes by the wayside.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I linked it above as a Yahoo! News article and there is a Tweet of Reuter's reporting right in the article you didn't look at.

It doesn't really look like that big of a deal (potentially), but the timing of the investigation being opened alongside Pfizer's fast-tracked approval certainly is curious.
To be honest I never click anything you link. I gave up on that venture awhile ago. Since it's Yahoo though I take a look.


Edit: Pfizer is getting approved so you linked a story about Moderna?


Okay? Good job I guess?
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
To be honest I never click anything you link. I gave up on that venture awhile ago. Since it's Yahoo though I take a look.


Edit: Pfizer is getting approved so you linked a story about Moderna?


Okay? Good job I guess?

Yahoo will curate anything from anywhere basically. They cut and paste articles with the source site logo at the top. No different than someone linking to it here, but people use "Yahoo" as a way to give bullshit legitimacy.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yahoo will curate anything from anywhere basically. They cut and paste articles with the source site logo at the top. No different than someone linking to it here, but people use "Yahoo" as a way to give bullshit legitimacy.
Yeah but they usually don't link to bogus conspiracy sites and other unreliable nonsense in my experience when it comes to stuff like this. So I consider them to be somewhat reliable. It at least has a better chance of getting me to look than some tweet from a random person.


Still don't understand why he linked a story about Moderna when we are talking about Pfizer.
 
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betrayal

Banned
4.91 billion doses have been administered. Huge upsides with countless lives saved, minor downsides steeped in conspiracy theories. Being a covid antivaxxer is far worse than being an MMR autism antivaxxer in terms of bottom line to society. The autism hoax also targeted low intelligence, low information people who clung to faith-based positions in disregard of mountains of evidence, however.

I know quite a few who do not want to be vaccinated. All of them are between 20 and 40, in good health and are clear supporters of vaccination. They still do not want to be vaccinated against COVID-19. None of them is spouting any conspiracy garbage or anything else, but it is a personal decision based on the current data for this age group.

When you hear of hundreds of COVID cases from work, colleagues, friends and family and all are healthy again, then it is also difficult to argue for vaccination, because most just want to wait a little longer and/or are still cautious because possible long term effects of vaccination, which very likely will never occur. At the same time these people urge others, especially the elderly or sick, to get vaccinated against COVID asap.

I don't know what is so difficult to understand about the fact that some people don't want to argue AGAINST a vaccination, but that they just want to consider their personal risk. This is of course lower with vaccination, but for many under 50 an infection and severe consequences are extremely rare. Some people know this and are willing to take this very small risk of becoming infected unvaccinated, because then they would never have to worry about long-term consequences, even if they know that the chance is almost non-existent.

Sometimes it seems that some vaccinated people are still looking for confirmation that it was the right decision to get vaccinated (which in my personal opinion is never the wrong decision). If you're vaxxed, that's cool. So am I.
But all of that doesn't change the fact, that there are other people with their own personal reasons which have nothing to do with the conspiracy anti-vaxxers, who are complete morons ofc. In the process, many raging vaccinated people don't even notice that they are on the same level of stupid conspiracy anti-vaxxers, because they only see good and evil, me vs them or smart and dumb.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
When you hear of hundreds of COVID cases from work, colleagues, friends and family and all are healthy again, then it is also difficult to argue for vaccination, because most just want to wait a little longer and/or are still cautious because possible long term effects of vaccination, which very likely will never occur. At the same time these people urge others, especially the elderly or sick, to get vaccinated against COVID asap.

A lot of people play Russian Roulette and don't get their brains blown out. Doesn't mean I'm going to play it.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I know quite a few who do not want to be vaccinated. All of them are between 20 and 40, in good health and are clear supporters of vaccination. They still do not want to be vaccinated against COVID-19. None of them is spouting any conspiracy garbage or anything else, but it is a personal decision based on the current data for this age group.

When you hear of hundreds of COVID cases from work, colleagues, friends and family and all are healthy again, then it is also difficult to argue for vaccination, because most just want to wait a little longer and/or are still cautious because possible long term effects of vaccination, which very likely will never occur. At the same time these people urge others, especially the elderly or sick, to get vaccinated against COVID asap.

I don't know what is so difficult to understand about the fact that some people don't want to argue AGAINST a vaccination, but that they just want to consider their personal risk. This is of course lower with vaccination, but for many under 50 an infection and severe consequences are extremely rare. Some people know this and are willing to take this very small risk of becoming infected unvaccinated, because then they would never have to worry about long-term consequences, even if they know that the chance is almost non-existent.

Sometimes it seems that some vaccinated people are still looking for confirmation that it was the right decision to get vaccinated (which in my personal opinion is never the wrong decision). If you're vaxxed, that's cool. So am I.
But all of that doesn't change the fact, that there are other people with their own personal reasons which have nothing to do with the conspiracy anti-vaxxers, who are complete morons ofc. In the process, many raging vaccinated people don't even notice that they are on the same level of stupid conspiracy anti-vaxxers, because they only see good and evil, me vs them or smart and dumb.
One is pro-social and pro-survival behavior, and the other is anti-social and anti-survival behavior. Behavior that is pro-social and pro-survival is generally considered to be "smart," yes, while the opposite, e.g. drunk driving, is not viewed in a positive light.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
In the process, many raging vaccinated people don't even notice that they are on the same level of stupid conspiracy anti-vaxxers, because they only see good and evil, me vs them or smart and dumb.

Seeing it as good vs evil is obviously stupid, but seeing it as smart vs dumb is just the reality given everything we know. The vaccine is safe, it puts you at a much lower risk than not being vaccinated, it's readily available, and it's free. Beyond that choosing not to get it puts not only yourself at risk, but everyone around you as well. Even those who are vaccinated due to the nature of breakthrough cases.


Therefore choosing not to get it is an objectively dumb decision and a selfish one at that. So I do not begrudge anyone for taking that stance because it really is just that simple. The only exception to that in my opinion is if you are unable to take it for legitimate medical reasons or because you have a genuinely held religious belief against it.



Beyond that I don't care if you have 3 PHDs and a Nobel prize. If you refuse to get vaccinated then you are just a smart person making a very stupid decision.
 
A lot of people play Russian Roulette and don't get their brains blown out. Doesn't mean I'm going to play it.
Not getting vaccinated is like playing russian roulette if the revolver had roughly a hundred thousand chambers and one bullet in it (stats vary by age and health status, of course). At that point, a lot of the stuff we do in life (like driving a car) is like playing russian roulette.
 

betrayal

Banned
A lot of people play Russian Roulette and don't get their brains blown out. Doesn't mean I'm going to play it.

Good decision. I agree with that. Just has nothing to do with the topic.


One is pro-social and pro-survival behavior, and the other is anti-social and anti-survival behavior. Behavior that is pro-social and pro-survival is generally considered to be "smart," yes, while the opposite, e.g. drunk driving, is not viewed in a positive light.

I understand what you mean, but it doesn't make sense in this context. If anti-survival behavior is automatically considered not "smart", then the entire human race is the biggest bunch of suicidal morons that ever walked this planet.

Pro-social is a social construct. It is shaped by the masses, which is fine. Nevertheless, there are nuances and differences, and people who deviate from the norm are not always maliciously stupid people who only want to hurt others.

Seeing it as good vs evil is obviously stupid, but seeing it as smart vs dumb is just the reality given everything we know. The vaccine is safe, it puts you at a much lower risk than not being vaccinated, it's readily available, and it's free. Beyond that choosing not to get it puts not only yourself at risk, but everyone around you as well. Even those who are vaccinated due to the nature of breakthrough cases.


Therefore choosing not to get it is an objectively dumb decision and a selfish one at that. So I do not begrudge anyone for taking that stance because it really is just that simple. The only exception to that in my opinion is if you are unable to take it for legitimate medical reasons or because you have a genuinely held religious belief against it.



Beyond that I don't care if you have 3 PHDs and a Nobel prize. If you refuse to get vaccinated then you are just a smart person making a very stupid decision.

It is totally okay to consider the decision of these people as "stupid". But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that these people are immediately labeled as complete idiots and conspiracy theorists. Just because of their current decision against a vaccination, the complete life of these people is immediately questioned.

Saying "I think your decision is stupid" vs "You are a complete moron and conspiracy theorist" are two very different things. With the former, you would have the chance to reach more people, but unfortunately this is not the current approach of people who want to change other people's minds.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
A lot of people play Russian Roulette and don't get their brains blown out. Doesn't mean I'm going to play it.
Russian roulette is a bad example because it involves the person shooting only themselves. A better analogy would be the one idiot playing Russian Roulette and then pointing the gun at a random stranger every other turn and also pulling the trigger. Obviously the percentages are different but the idea is still the same. Its one person gambling with their life, but this time they are gambling other lives as well.


If the stupidity of these people only affected themselves I wouldn't care in the slightest. But they are putting other people at risk with their stupidity. That's the problem.

And yet people still die.
Just because other people died while wearing seatbelts you are going to stubbornly refuse to wear one?
 
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Just because other people died while wearing seatbelts you are going to stubbornly refuse to wear one?
I was talking about stats. For a young and healthy person, playing the "drive the car" russian roulette is more dangerous than playing the "don't get the xeen" russian roulette. This is with most people wearing seatbelts. Without seatbelts the risk would be even worse.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I was talking about stats. For a young and healthy person, playing the "drive the car" russian roulette is more dangerous than playing the "don't get the xeen" russian roulette. This is with most people wearing seatbelts. Without seatbelts the risk would be even worse.
Yes. Just like going without the vaccine is even worse than if you were to take it.
 
Saying "I think your decision is stupid" vs "You are a complete moron and conspiracy theorist" are two very different things. With the former, you would have the chance to reach more people, but unfortunately this is not the current approach of people who want to change other people's minds.
Yes, the whole premise of a society is just that of a larger "tribe"(Whether that works well or not is another topic.), which is itself, just an extension of the idea of a family. But we often don't treat one another the same within the macrocosm context of "society" as we would within the microcosm of the family/personal relationships - especially in the modern world with the anonymity and expansiveness of potential communication at our disposal. If we are to buy into the idea that we're all in this together - the very premise behind the idea of society, we owe it to each other to give decency and respect, irrespective of differences. When any entity - individual or collective - places themselves or their ideas as unchallengeable or universally applicable, they are, aware or not, at war with the idea of society. Having said all that, conflict is, in the end, inevitable. Things/people are what they are, for better or worse, and the world keeps on spinning as it will.
 

Jaysen

Banned
I don't think it's fair at all to call people who are skeptical about these very particular vaccines and how they were rushed to market "anti-vaxxers."

With that said, if this is the process under which every future vaccine gets approved, then yeah, you're probably going to see a lot more anti-vaxxers in the future.

There are actually a good number of people out there waiting for these to be fully approved by the FDA, because they still trust in that traditionally rigorous and transparent review process and just didn't want to get them on an emergency use authorization basis. We already have more vaccines than there is demand in this country, so the only reason to give them full FDA approval at this point is to further legitimize them, but I think the opposite effect will be had if the FDA cuts corners and rushes the full approval process.
Anyone with a problem with a vaccine but no issue with hydro or horse paste isn’ta skeptic. They’re a fucking idiot being driven by political ideology.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
So has there been any updates on that Pfizer study from Japan on the lipid nanoparticle biodistribution? I just got my second jab and I wanna know if I need to make these last years of my life count lol.
1. If you're referencing the study I think you're referencing, it's not from Japan. There's a Japanese version of it, but it's only referencing data that was already done elsewhere.

2. The people referencing that study didn't represent its findings accurately and made it out to be more of an issue than it actually is.

I discussed it here, during my debunking of the podcast episode where Weinstein was talking about potential dangers of the vaccine with Robert Malone and Steve.

 

Keihart

Member


GIF by Giphy QA


You silly fucking cunts.

No idea how this is going to develop, but in my country we already passed the 80% second shot, some vaccines are getting the third shot, we have clocked over a moth with low rate cases and mortality (lower than the lowest numbers last year) and thus we are getting cautiously back to normal, since we are still not overrun by variants.

Second world country by the way, surrounded by countries being devastated by covid19 (both health systems and economy)...perspective is a curious thing.
 
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FunkMiller

Gold Member
Did Zefah request a delete because Pfizer is going to be FDA approved? Has his whole thing been “i‘ll just spread doubt until I can’t any more?”
Come back dude. I don’t agree with your positions, but you always put the yards in.
 
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