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[Abounder]

Crytek makes good engines but also make terrible business decisions. They are all-in on VR which is a fantastic risk.

Anyway VR is a great tool but it will be up to devs like Crytek to make it worthwhile. Without a proper stream of AAA titles it's dead on arrival, the good news is that big brands are already invested. We need more hard numbers like release dates and price points to kill skepticism.

And no more half-assed launch projects like Ryse

 

[Ferrio]

One thing people seem to fail to notice is that Devs are very very interested in VR unlike they were in supporting 3D tvs or waggle. That alone should make you atleast entertain the idea that there might be something more to VR than a fad.

 

[Theonik]

I agree with the spirit of your post, and it's for the most part accurate. But let's see if the Last Guardian actually sells well. It's one thing to be "liked" by consumers, another to be selling well and bringing in good sales #s.

I guess it's the always the tension with art/commercialism. Sometimes the things critics love, doesn't necessarily = sales.

Some games exist for goals beyond making money on their own. Games like Ico-Trico exist to bring fan goodwill and review scores. In that sense, they don't have huge budgets dedicated to them and aren't expected to pull in large revenues but to exist on listwars.

 

[Clockwork5]

One thing people seem to fail to notice is that Devs are very very interested in VR unlike they were in supporting 3D tvs or waggle. That alone should make you atleast entertain the idea that there might be something more to VR than a fad.

Some are. While others seem to be completely ignoring it until it is proven to be a financially viable risk worth taking. 3d and waggle failed to exhibit a reasonable return on investment, there is a chance VR will fail to do so as well.

 

[Mononoke]

Some games exist for goals beyond making money on their own. Games like Ico-Trico exist to bring fan goodwill and review scores. In that sense, they don't have huge budgets dedicated to them and aren't expected to pull in large revenues but to exist on listwars.

Ah yes, that is a great point. If they don't have a massively bloated budget, then small sales that surpass the budget + bring prestige and goodwill to a brand -- that also has importance and worth.

So great post. I edited my post.

 

[Solid Samus]

One thing people seem to fail to notice is that Devs are very very interested in VR unlike they were in supporting 3D tvs or waggle. That alone should make you atleast entertain the idea that there might be something more to VR than a fad.

The people who fail to notice those sorts of things simply aren't interested in reading your post, or anyone elses. They're just interested in offering their 'valuable' input. If they were interested in the posts of others, we wouldn't still have comparisons to 3DTV happening at this stage in the game.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

One thing people seem to fail to notice is that Devs are very very interested in VR unlike they were in supporting 3D tvs or waggle. That alone should make you atleast entertain the idea that there might be something more to VR than a fad.

Indeed. This is something people seem to completely ignore. Tech companies and developers big and small are showing interest for VR more than they have for 3D TV's, Kinect, Move, etc combined. Wii's motion controls are one of the exceptions, but the whole system was designed around it so it's developers couldn't really avoid it.

 

[Durante]

The point is that "well 3DTV and 4KTV had lots of backing too!" is a disingenuous argument. It's superficial and shows little more than a surface glance at what's going on.

3DTV was a top down push - big studios saying "It'll be the best thing ever!" There are no indie 3DTV films, 3DTV didn't permeate several types of businesses. It was one enterprise hyping something up to be more than it was.

VR is nothing like that. It's been a bottoms up campaign from the beginning. It's not one industry aligning to VR, it's multiple, on a scale rarely seen. When several sectors of enterprise start to embrace a technology, it becomes transformative. The first step in any world-changing technology's distribution curve is a healthy Demo Scene developing around the technology. VR has that in spades.

Look at all the very big, life-changing technologies. They all gained significant footholds in private sectors, then were slowly introduced to the public, before they became mainstream successes. For decades, you saw computers in offices, in hospitals, etc before you saw them at home. Look at touch screens - for many people, the first touch screen they used wasn't on their phone, it was at their bank, or at a mall kiosk, or whatever. I remember going to a local community college to use their T1 internet line to download shit off of napster waaaaay before broadband became a force at home.

VR will be disseminated to the public the same way. They will be introduced to it in movie theaters, they will become familiar with it at their doctor's office. They'll see it on the sideline of NFL games. Then it'll become normalized, then it'll be everywhere, then it'll be a staple in the home.

People also don't realize that "gamedev" doesn't necessarily mean home consumer use. It also means military.

Great post.

 

[Brashnir]

Crytek: predicting the future of the gaming industry since never.

 

[Chû Totoro]

It's a bold statement on purpose. I believe he is basically implying that VR is far more important to AAA and hardcore gaming than most people realize, even among hardcore communities like GAF. This industry is all about new buzz, and VR is not only just new buzz, it allows developers to create entirely new, entirely deeper experiences on top of having a very easy to understand set of new features to show off. So they are going to probably jump on that 'this is the new thing' buzz even if the games are not there yet, and push it as a "hey VR is AAA gaming now, go play a mobile title or a Nintendo game or an old game if you aren't in it with us'

The thing is though, if it happens this way, it will be a different hype than these two previous gens, where the promise of the new tech (better graphics) never delivered anything interesting for games themselves. VR will have the ability to have legs, and offer an evolving domain of gaming that continues to innovate and amaze us. This has always been the spirit of games until recently, and it looks like gaming might just be shedding off it's hollywood-wanna be skin that it picked up recently, and letting that become what it will to it's market, while the true spirit of video games lives on just as strong as ever, with VR as the zephyr into it's next dimension/stage of evolution.

Maybe but I don't think so. Look at motion controls or 3D, motion controls were a big success with Wii but people were more interested in discovering new easier and fun ways to play than learning and mastering the technology so they could have more challenging gaming experiences after. 3D is closer to to a failure so I'm not sure VR will be more than a nice new possibility to play. It may still be near more conventional gaming for decades but I don't see it being that important that other ways to play would become so much less enjoyable that every actor would have to be into VR.

They believe in VR and it's a good thing but I think they may see it this way because unconsciously (or not) they may see their best interest in it.

 

[Always-honest]

 

[Ashok]

Wishful thinking on his part. VR could crash and burn for all we know.

What? VR is already here and vetted. After playing HL2 in VR, in 4 years I can't imagine gaming outside of VR except for nostalgia.

 

[Krejlooc]

Maybe but I don't think so. Look at motion controls or 3D, motion controls were a big success with Wii but people were more interested in discovering new easier and fun ways to play than learning and mastering the technology so they could have more challenging gaming experiences after. 3D is closer to to a failure so I'm not sure VR will be more than a nice new possibility to play. It may still be near more conventional gaming for decades but I don't see it being that important that other ways to play would become so much less enjoyable that every actor would have to be into VR.

They believe in VR and it's a good thing but I think they may see it this way because unconsciously (or not) they may see their best interest in it.

The people who cite motion controls as a "failure" are hilarious

EVERY SINGLE DEVICE TODAY HAS BUILT IN MOTION CONTROLS. They became ubiquitous. They were as far reaching as everyone made them out to be.

And everyone ignores that VR itself owes quite a bit to motion controls making positional tracking research surge in popularity.

 

[Chû Totoro]

The people who cite motion controls as a "failure" are hilarious

EVERY SINGLE DEVICE TODAY HAS BUILT IN MOTION CONTROLS. They became ubiquitous. They were as far reaching as everyone made them out to be.

And everyone ignores that VR itself owes quite a bit to motion controls making positional tracking research surge in popularity.

I don't say that it was a real failure, I say that it was a big success that quickly become less relevant. Yes motion controls are everywhere but are you sure games who aren't using it are irrelevant to the market and sell badly? That's the topic here, relevancy of actors who won't push VR in 4 years. It implies games that won't use VR will be less successful. If not I don't understand what they mean by relevancy? Relevancy in a market is tied to success and success in gaming industry is tied to sales.

 

[_SAKY_]

I remember when we were told the future was MMO's, every single game would incorporate MMO elements or be an MMO hybrid. Then the future was Facebook games because Facebook gave you open ended access to user privs and you could print money, this lasted about 2 years. Around that time it was decided that the future was mobile games only. Then we were told consoles were dead and nobody would ever want them again. Oh and of course everything was motion controls for a while.

At some point people are gonna calm down with the hyperbole and new experiences are going to calmly find their place in the market, like they always do.

Nailed it.

 

[Crayon]

That would require VR to have a sizeable and active userbase in 4 years time to warrant publishers to make that kind of investment.

PS4 + Morpheus realistically just doesn't have the hardware power to drive 'cutting edge' VR games. And the PC userbase alone already isn't enough to fund the budgets of AAA games, let alone when you then further limit it to whatever the PC + VR userbase will be in 4 years.

The price of entry and inconvenience will dampen the success of VR on PC, and limited hardware power on PS4.

In 4 years could we see a VR-focused PS5 launching though? I really don't see it.

You say morpheus doesn't have the capability to serve cutting edge games and you're wrong. Take a simple first generation game like Rigs. That's going to blow people away when they put on a vr headset for the first time. If that's not a cutting edge game, what is? Back Ops 5? Assassin's Creed 2016?

Vr games from the word go are going to start siphoning users who want the ultimate gaming experience. If Call of Duty doesn't support vr in 4 years, some other military fps will and they will begin stealing cod users immediately. Which users? The ones who buy a 400 dollar ps4 for better graphics and to play with their friends when they could have bought that years game on their 360. The ones who put in the huge time.

And why are those most dedicated users going to move on to vr? Because the escape is superior. And it's superior by a country mile. Those who think putting on a headset is isolating and therefore unappealing have it backwards. Hardcore gamers WANT to be cut off from the world. They've longed for decades for the chance to enter their games more completely. To get lost and to escape. By virtue of putting on a headset and cutting off your worldy senses, replacing them with a volumetric, 360 degree stream of sight and sound from your games, vr will render tv games simply not enough from the hardcore.

Of course, there will be a booming casual and mobile/f2p market besides. So in that sense the Crytek guy is wrong. You can still be relevant with mobas, candy crush, etc.

 

[baconcow]

It will likely take another 4 years before Crysis 1 will run maxed on most VR solutions (with a mainstream desktop). Seriously though, I don't think VR will be the mainstream in 4 years.

 

[msdstc]

Sure its been said, but not sure you wanna take business advice from crytek.

 

[MUnited83]

Came for the Crytek burns, not disappointed.



There is/was a lot of money behind 3d tv and 4k tv too.

You are aware that the investiment on those are but a small fraction of what is being invested in VR, right? You are also aware that VR goes wayyyyyy beyond gaming on its uses ? Medical and militar training as an example.

VR will be huge. No way around it. Even it doesn't catch on the gaming industry, that doesn't matter. The uses outside of it are endless.

 

[stan423321]

Eh, for all Crytek nonsensoleum I gotta give them the fact that as an engine maker you want to support VR. As a game developer, though, I'm pretty sure you'll have an audience anyway. The tech seems just too expensive right now to wreck traditional screen-based games, and that's even if we assume it's superior to it in every other property (it's not).

 

[Lathentar]

One thing people seem to fail to notice is that Devs are very very interested in VR unlike they were in supporting 3D tvs or waggle. That alone should make you atleast entertain the idea that there might be something more to VR than a fad.

As long as there are people willing to fund VR games, devs are going to be very interested. If that money runs out so will (most) developer interest.

 

[Krejlooc]

As long as there are people willing to fund VR games, devs are going to be very interested. If that money runs out so will (most) developer interest.

Developer interest in VR predates the modern funding boom. That's the whole "demo scene culture" I am talking about. People took up VR, before VR started paying.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Glad people are posting to take kicks at Crytek. These fucks should shut up about any kind of future proofing.
There's a lot of good people out of jobs coz Cryteks eyes were bigger than their belly.

 

[Älg]

That's a pretty bold statement.

 

[Lathentar]

Developer interest in VR predates the modern funding boom. That's the whole "demo scene culture" I am talking about. People took up VR, before VR started paying.

I'm talking studios that make multi-million dollar games. Those developers, not demo scene developers. You can find a demo scene for nearly everything.

You mentioned yourself that you were able to get several million in funding quite easily, tons of developers want a piece of that pie.

Do you think Insomniac would be making a VR game if Oculus didn't fully fund Edge of Nowhere?

 

[kruis]

Our business plan shows a steady market supply. I was able to get several million in funding quite easily because the research shows an enormous potential audience.

That's true. If only 1% of all Chinese buy your product, you've got it made.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I can't remember the last time I cared about anything Crytek related.

 

[Ferrio]

As long as there are people willing to fund VR games, devs are going to be very interested. If that money runs out so will (most) developer interest.

It goes past funding, the Devs are honestly excited about this and not because of potential profits.

 

[Lathentar]

It goes past funding, the Devs are honestly excited about this and not because of potential profits.

Being excited is great, it will lead to higher quality games, but devs won't make multi-million dollar games for platforms unless there is funding or potential profits. If VR grows as many of you expect it to, there should be nothing to be worried about though.

 

[MCN]

I'm not sure Crytek will be relevant in 4 years regardless of VR, given their business acumen.

 

[PdotMichael]

I'm not sure Crytek will be relevant in 4 years regardless of VR, given their business acumen.

I believe in f2VR

 

[ArtHands]

Isn't that pretty much true, though? A lot of big games these days incorporate multiplayer and other social aspects into singleplayer.

He's talking about single player mode being a connected single player mode.

The biggest games at E3 this year has got no such thing. uncharted 4, TLG, ff7 remake, Shenmue 3 etc.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

Just like any other gaming gimmick, vr will not last long

Couldn't agree with this more.

No idea why Crytek is saying anything like this. If they really think VR will be needed in 4 years time, its no wonder they are in the position they are now. VR will fizz away just like all the other gimmicks.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Couldn't agree with this more.

No idea why Crytek is saying anything like this. If they really think VR will be needed in 4 years time, its no wonder they are in the position they are now. VR will fizz away just like all the other gimmicks.

I bet you could agree with it more. You could agree with it so much the mere thought of of your ultragreement would transmit theta waves throughout the world and the whole of VR as a concept would undo itself, ripping the fabric of space-time and causing Virtual Reality to never exist at all.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

C´mon. People at large are not going to use those ridiculous headsets for anything outside their houses. Cinema? Banking? Never.They erase yourself from social interaction and interaction with the enviroment. If anything, AR as in Microsoft is trying it will work, but not VR as in Oculus.

Fantastic post. I don't see how people think this will become mainstream. I see its purposes in the medical field and helping with specific jobs. But really? Putting on a headset to do some online banking? Who's going to go to the movies and put on a giant fucking headset? Get real. The people that think VR will go mainstream are delusional.

 

[Train of Midnight]

Crytek makes good engines but also make terrible business decisions. They are all-in on VR which is a fantastic risk.

They're a ~700 employee company. They've only got a 50-man team working on VR currently.

 

[Cipherr]

lol i'm gonna grab the low hanging fruit and talk about Crytek's relevance like the engines that will power 90% of my favorite games by the end of this generation aren't already featuring VR development suites like right now
because I'm an asshole

90%? What are you smoking?

 

[FStop7]

VR seems cool but I refuse to believe it will be ubiquitous in 4 years. Not even the commercialized Internet took off that fast and that was the most impactful thing we've seen since the invention of television.

 

[Krejlooc]

You can find a demo scene for nearly everything.?

Except everybody's favorite vr comparison, 3dtv.

 

[Train of Midnight]

VR seems cool but I refuse to believe it will be ubiquitous in 4 years. Not even the commercialized Internet took off that fast and that was the most impactful thing we've seen since the invention of television.

It's not going to find its way into every home in the west in 4 years, that's not what they're saying. But it will be at the point where if your development team has no experience making games for VR (which is incredibly different and more challenging than traditional development), you're going to find yourself unable to compete in the medium for quite some time. And that kind of lag in this industry can kill a business.

 

[Lathentar]

Except everybody's favorite vr comparison, 3dtv.

Touche!

 

[JordanN]

You just need to look to the military to see where technology is headed.

I actually just googled "military vr" for the first time and I'm already seeing lots of examples.

 

[RiverBed]

I'm not sure Crytek will be relevant in 4 years regardless of VR, given their business acumen.

I'm not sure they are now.

 

[tbb033]

There's more chance of the industry switching entirely to female lead characters in 4 years than there is of needing VR to be relevant in 4 years

 

[Ferrio]

There's more chance of the industry switching entirely to female lead characters in 4 years than there is of needing VR to be relevant in 4 years

Trespasser sequel confirmed.

 

[Josman]

Well, at least for consoles I think it's true, if MS or Nintendo don't a have a headset by next gen's release date, they'll end up in last place again.

 

[Retromelon]

Op so are you trying to say

that nintendo is doomed

 

[bj00rn_]

This makes sense for any company that licenses out game engines.

I don't get why everyone is so damn cynical.

No effort = no cost. This thread is more like a cheap one-liner factory. No discussion required, no brainpower required. ..Sort of a king of the hill to try to be one of the cool kids. For the rest of us it means we have to wade through a lot of shit to find something of reading value.

Anyway, I think Crytek is right. There's a brand new medium coming soon, and now is the time to start make a plan and to stake a claim. I think it's going to change the landscape for developers forever, at least eventually.

 

[GreatestHits]

Hmm. Cool. Looks like the military is so 1337 they still use windows 98!

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Op so are you trying to say

that nintendo is doomed

Somehow, it always comes back to this.

Spoiler

of course they are