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[Red UFO]

I want the one with the more

LOL


But yeah, not gonna happen. I'm betting at 1GB, maybe 2GB if we're lucky.

 

[charsace]

In two years I can see 8 gigs being nothing. There were 8gig laptops getting released last year. By 2012 or 13 it will not be a big deal. Next gen consoles will have 4-8gig and will be $300-$400 again at launch.

 

[duk]

good effin luck with 8gb!

i'd be ecstatic with 4gb from sony/ms

with nintendo, they will prob go for 2gb

 

[TheExodu5]

In two years I can see 8 gigs being nothing. There were 8gig laptops getting released last year. By 2012 or 13 it will not be a big deal. Next gen consoles will have 4-8gig and will be $300-$400 again at launch.

If you want that much RAM, no way is it going to cost that little.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Question. Assuming Nintendo rolls with unified GDDR5 memory, what kind of performance increase are we looking at over the GDDR3 memory in the 360? We should see higher performance even with the same quantity of memory, should we not?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Geez. We always get people like "OMG this shitty pc with shitty ram has like 8GB, why can't consoles have that much!!??". They don't use the shittiest ram. They need to make a box that's going to cost under $599 and not lose an arm and leg to manufacture. They need to consider being able to cost reduce the manufacturing and taking up half your motherboard with ram doesn't help that. Though 8GB ram is not an impossible scenario, its so unlikely its not worth discussing.

 

[charsace]

Geez. We always get people like "OMG this shitty pc with shitty ram has like 8GB, why can't consoles have that much!!??". They don't use the shittiest ram. They need to make a box that's going to cost under $599 and not lose an arm and leg to manufacture. They need to consider being able to cost reduce the manufacturing and taking up half your motherboard with ram doesn't help that. Though 8GB ram is not an impossible scenario, its so unlikely its not worth discussing.

Not really. The 360 uses GDDR3 which video cards at the time it was released were using.

 

[Death Dealer]

Not really. The 360 uses GDDR3 which video cards at the time it was released were using.

Compare GDDR3 to DDR1 or whatever the common type of PC ram was at the time. Per megabyte, the GDDR3 was a lot more expensive. Whatever ram they use in the next consoles, odds are it will be some of the fastest stuff available. So when people link to these 8gb chips on newegg for $80, its apples and oranges.

They will put as much ram in as they think it needs but not anymore than that. Ram capacity is one area where the console manufacturers usually skimp. Even if it was feasible, I still don't know what they'd even do with 8gb of ram. Running a game in a closed box doesn't have the same overhead as a bloated windows PC.

 

[Why For?]

Can I ask why 8GB is so outrageous?

Wouldn't 8GB of ram be cheap as all fuck to put it there? So why not?

 

[Instro]

Can I ask why 8GB is so outrageous?

Wouldn't 8GB of ram be cheap as all fuck to put it there? So why not?

Theres tons of posts in this thread about this.

RAM used in gaming consoles, which is much faster than whats found in other devices or RAM sticks you buy for your PC, is significantly more expensive.

 

[goomba]

I want games that don't require load screens

Ummm you do know that the more you load into RAM, the longer it will take...

 

[Barrel Cannon]

8 Gigs sounds about right to me. Assuming these consoles come out in 2013 that is. I'm still disappointed Microsoft never made the HDD mandatory because if you really think about it a HDD-less 360 can handle games the exact same way a HDD-equipped on would with only subsequent load times being shorter due to the cache. Pretty interesting how much goodness can come from old tech :S

 

[Log4Girlz]

Ummm you do know that the more you load into RAM, the longer it will take...

Well, loading can be masked with the more Ram you have. You can stream in massive amounts of game data and basically reduce the amount of loading you have to do as a whole. Now, if a game developer stupidly does not utilize intelligent streaming, then yeah you will see "Now loading" screens forever.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Can I ask why 8GB is so outrageous?

Wouldn't 8GB of ram be cheap as all fuck to put it there? So why not?

If adding $150 to each console is your definition of cheap, sure.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

the biggest problem to this is that sony and MS won't use typical ram types that you'd see in PC's at home. they use edram and XDR and bullshit like that and claim there's some special reason it HAS to be those types of ram. yeah, i know those types of ram perform a lot faster than average PC ram but if the CPU and GPU in their next consoles are powerful enough you won't need to bandaid the handicap with super charged ram.

i don't have a prediction for CPU ram, or if they will all go unified, but if VRAM is separate i doubt you will see more than 2gb (where a lot of videocards these days are headed). it's most likely going to be 1gb.

 

[Emitan]

This whole thread is just a cycle of people asking "y so expensive lol" and people giving the same explanations over and over again.

 

[mr_nothin]

If adding $150 to each console is your definition of cheap, sure.

$150?
Where are you getting that figure from? Only the CPU/GPUs in consoles have even come close to that figure. The cell wasnt even that much to manufacture (disregarding R&D).

This whole thread is just a cycle of people asking "y so expensive lol" and people giving the same explanations over and over again.

 

[BobTheFork]

$150?
Where are you getting that figure from? Only the CPU/GPUs in consoles have even come close to that figure. The cell wasnt even that much to manufacture (disregarding R&D).

When Gears of War was being made, they wanted extra ram in it to make the game run properly. MS said it cost them a billion dollars lifetime to make the upgrade. The console need to be made as cheaply as possible and it's about the cost to the company, not us.

 

[Truespeed]

When Gears of War was being made, they wanted extra ram in it to make the game run properly. MS said it cost them a billion dollars lifetime to make the upgrade. The console need to be made as cheaply as possible and it's about the cost to the company, not us.

So variations of this story have come up throughout this thread. Here's the alleged full story.

For the 512MB of RAM present on every Xbox 360 today, we have Epic Games, Mark Rein, and Tim Sweeny to thank. If you've heard that story lingering around before, that Epic costed Microsoft US$ 1 billion for the 512MB RAM chips and Gears of War, yep that's true.

Mark confirms and tells the story to Major Nelson during the Canadian Community Party. The short version is this: if Epic wanted Gears to look that drool-inducing HD, then they had no choice but to ask for 512MB RAM. Thing is, Microsoft orginally projected that the 360 would carry only 256MB - and wanted that spec to stick.

But Epic had the last word. Mark's partner, Tim Sweeny, sent the boys upstairs at Microsoft Games Studios a screenshot of how Gears of War would look like with 256MB of RAM. It would have been nice to see the screenshot that squeezed a further billion dollars from Microsoft's budget just to swap out 256MB for 512MB.

It would have been nice to see the faces of the guys at Accounting when they finally got the bill. Two years ago, Mark thinks it was during the Game Developers Conference, he got this call from Microsoft Games Studios' Chief Financial Officer who told him, "I just wanted you to know that you cost me a billion dollars."

To which Mark replied, "We did a favor for a billion gamers." From the bottom of our eye-popping hearts, we thank you, Mark.

link

 

[Log4Girlz]

So variations of this story have come up throughout this thread. Here's the alleged full story.



link

He should have argued for 1GB

 

[ThatObviousUser]

He should have argued for 1GB

That would have been like a $4 billion cost, probably even more.

 

[Truespeed]

That would have been like a $4 billion cost, probably even more.

And an additional 3 Billion people to thank.

 

[wit3tyg3r]

Can I ask why 8GB is so outrageous?

Wouldn't 8GB of ram be cheap as all fuck to put it there? So why not?

Think about the multiplication factor. As of today, a good set of 8GB DDR3 RAM for a PC costs roughly $100. Now multiply that cost by the millions of consoles that would be produced. Just think of the price of manufacturing, let alone the cost the consumers have to pay for the end result.

 

[Emitan]

Think about the multiplication factor. As of today, a good set of 8GB DDR3 RAM for a PC costs roughly $100. Now multiply that cost by the millions of consoles that would be produced. Just think of the price of manufacturing, let alone the cost the consumers have to pay for the end result.

Don't forget that they're not using DDR3 RAM sticks. They're using super fast RAM soldered onto the board.

 

[Log4Girlz]

And an additional 3 Billion people to thank.

That had me laugh.


Anyway, I loved the RAM upgrade for the n64. I think it was tastefully done and some games took great advantage of it. Imagine if the HD twins allowed for a RAM upgrade. It would come out right about now and be supported like crazy. I really wish at least one of the manufacturers would put in as much RAM as they could afford but then later down the line offer to double that amount with an add-on.

I know about the very shaky history of add-ons, but a RAM upgrade would be amazing and actually seen by many as a progressive idea...since most people understand the concept of upgrading RAM in PC's and whatnot.

 

[TUROK]

Imagine if the HD twins allowed for a RAM upgrade. It would come out right about now and be supported like crazy.

I can already see it now.

Proprietary RAM expansion slot. Cost for proprietary 1GB RAM module, 100 US dollars.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I never understood why the current consoles had so little RAM. It's not that expensive anymore. There's no reason to have under 1GB.

You have to remember that both consoles have faster than current ddr3 ram. And these systems were launched when ddr1 was more the norm and even ddr2 was pricey.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Think about the multiplication factor. As of today, a good set of 8GB DDR3 RAM for a PC costs roughly $100. Now multiply that cost by the millions of consoles that would be produced. Just think of the price of manufacturing, let alone the cost the consumers have to pay for the end result.

You have US Customs to blame for the cost of RAM in the US. If it's already part of a game system being brought into the US then it should be significantly cheaper than purchasing individual sticks here so using those prices as a comparison is not accurate.

 

[Xenon]

So variations of this story have come up throughout this thread. Here's the alleged full story.



link

Considering that the extra 256 helped MS stay competitive with a machine release a year later, I'd say it's money well spent.

 

[Truespeed]

Considering that the extra 256 helped MS stay competitive with a machine release a year later, I'd say it's money well spent.

I wonder how it would have played out had they originally released the 360 with only 256MB of RAM. They would have probably released the next generation Xbox by now. To which I say - damn you, Epic

 

[Quagm1r3]

I can see why they said this after seeing how much more narrow Crysis 2 is compared to its predecessor.

 

[Diablos]

8GB seems like overkill.

Not in a few years.

Both 360 and PS3 have suffered from a lack of RAM. Next-gen I say they go all out and use 16GB.

Really, 8GB is not much... especially if we are talking 4GB CPU + 4GB GPU. Today it seems crazy, but next-gen will demand a greatly increased level of detail.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Not in a few years.

Both 360 and PS3 have suffered from a lack of RAM. Next-gen I say they go all out and use 16GB.

Really, 8GB is not much... especially if we are talking 4GB CPU + 4GB GPU. Today it seems crazy, but next-gen will demand a greatly increased level of detail.

I wouldn't say they suffered at all. Developers are still getting more power out of the things.

 

[Diablos]

I wouldn't say they suffered at all. Developers are still getting more power out of the things.

At 540p, too. Mmm.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

At 540p, too. Mmm.

Is that what Uncharted 2 ran at?

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Just read through a bunch of this thread, and I still don't get why 8GB is so unfathomable. I can go buy 8 gigs of RAM for like $100 for my PC, no way it could add that much to a console's price when you factor in pricing arrangements between manufacturers. RAM is so cheap nowadays. RAM RAM RAM

Spoiler

jp .....but really, we need at least 4 GB of RAM next gen c'mon now

 

[eastmen]

8 gigs of 1866 ddr 3 is only $120 now. So i can easily see it in a 2012/13 console.

The drop to 32/28 and mabye even 22nm before the next console should make 8gigs of ram dirt cheap.

 

[szaromir]

Just read through a bunch of this thread, and I still don't get why 8GB is so unfathomable. I can go buy 8 gigs of RAM for like $100 for my PC, no way it could add that much to a console's price when you factor in pricing arrangements between manufacturers. RAM is so cheap nowadays. RAM RAM RAM

I had a 256MB+32MB setup in my PC before PS2 launched in the West.

 

[Buzzati]

You guys are right. RAM is ridiculously cheap for console makers. They're not putting in 35GB of RAM for a reason: Alien-People.

See. Why else would a company purposely not want to put more RAM in a console if price was not much of an issue, and it only serves to give them a cheap competitive edge? Fucking Aliens. RAM Aliens telling our gubment what to do with our gaming machines.

 

[Log4Girlz]

If any next-gen console has 8GB of ram I will eat my hat. My hat made of delicious chocolate icing.

 

[brain_stew]

Question. Assuming Nintendo rolls with unified GDDR5 memory, what kind of performance increase are we looking at over the GDDR3 memory in the 360? We should see higher performance even with the same quantity of memory, should we not?

Assuming the same bus width, then Nintendo will be able to get around 3-4x the bandwidth of the 360, by using GDDR5 (at the same speed GDDR5 delivers twice as much bandwidth and modern variants run much faster than the 700mhz GDDR3 in the 360) but a 128bit bus is hardly a certainty. By using a 64 bit bus they can dramatically reduce the complexity of the memory controller and motherboard and they'll be able to transition to a cheap, two chip memory solution either at or near launch, this is all while delivering between 1.5-2x the main memory bandwidth of the 360.

Having said all that, a lot depends on what integrated/dedicated/cache memory system Nintendo uses. Sub-HD games became common on the 360 for one major reason; the eDRAM was too small. If Nintendo can deliver ~20MB of fast RAM on-chip then that will be a huge win compared to the current generation, especially if both the CPU And GPU have fast, near zero latency access to it, which they will in a single chip design. Provide that and it won't be a big deal (imo) if main memory is accessed through a cheap 64-bit bus.

 

[JaseC]

I can already see it now.

Proprietary RAM expansion slot. Cost for proprietary 1GB RAM module, 100 US dollars.

It's not like it hasn't happened before.

 

[brain_stew]

$150?
Where are you getting that figure from? Only the CPU/GPUs in consoles have even come close to that figure. The cell wasnt even that much to manufacture (disregarding R&D).

More RAM means a larger motherboard and more traces, and XDR2/GDDR5 chips are hardly cheap either. Even if the increase is only $10 (and its not, it'll be a lot more), thats still going to cost at least $500 million over the consoles lifespan, hardly chicken feed.

I really would like to know how you all propose to fit either 16 or 32 RAM chips on a typical console motherboard while still keeping the size and price reasonable. If you can't answer that, then please stop with these asinine cost comparisons.

 

[brain_stew]

Just read through a bunch of this thread, and I still don't get why 8GB is so unfathomable. I can go buy 8 gigs of RAM for like $100 for my PC, no way it could add that much to a console's price when you factor in pricing arrangements between manufacturers. RAM is so cheap nowadays. RAM RAM RAM

Spoiler

jp .....but really, we need at least 4 GB of RAM next gen c'mon now

If that's the impression you get then you either haven't read this thread or lack reading comprehension. The reasons have been explained many times over.

Only $100, cool do you mind funding that $10 billion cost yourself, if its not such a big deal?

 

[brain_stew]

Not really. The 360 uses GDDR3 which video cards at the time it was released were using.

And did you see any of those $400+ videocards using more than 512MB? There was a good reason for that.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Damn brain_stew cool down.

 

[G Rom]

I really would like to know how you all propose to fit either 16 or 32 RAM chips on a typical console motherboard while still keeping the size and price reasonable. If you can't answer that, then please stop with these asinine cost comparisons.

By 2012/2013, 4 Gb modules will probably be a reality though. They could stick 8 of those (like in the original Xbox 360) and then switch to only 4 modules when 8 Gb modules arrive (like they did in the Slim).
More than 8 modules would be insane though, I agree.

Just read through a bunch of this thread, and I still don't get why 8GB is so unfathomable. I can go buy 8 gigs of RAM for like $100 for my PC, no way it could add that much to a console's price when you factor in pricing arrangements between manufacturers. RAM is so cheap nowadays. RAM RAM RAM

Spoiler

jp .....but really, we need at least 4 GB of RAM next gen c'mon now

Because your standard off-the-shelf DDR3 isn't the RAM you find in a console !!
(this should be in the thread title, seriously)

Not really. The 360 uses GDDR3 which video cards at the time it was released were using.

No, GDDR3 wasn't in all graphic card in november 2005 like GDDR5 is (pretty much) now. Far from it actually as only a handful of (mostly high-end) cards had GDDR3 back then.

 

[brain_stew]

the biggest problem to this is that sony and MS won't use typical ram types that you'd see in PC's at home. they use edram and XDR and bullshit like that and claim there's some special reason it HAS to be those types of ram. yeah, i know those types of ram perform a lot faster than average PC ram but if the CPU and GPU in their next consoles are powerful enough you won't need to bandaid the handicap with super charged ram.

Do you realise how ridiculous this is? The faster the CPU/GPU, then faster you need your memory to be, lest you want to enter bottleneck hell.

Using faster RAM has some pretty major wins elsewhere. It allows you to use simpler memory interfaces which means smaller silicon and less complex motherboards, if it allows you to get away with fewer RAM chips then even better, that's a further reduction in board complexity.

 

[brain_stew]

By 2012/2013, 4 Gb modules will probably be a reality though. They could stick 8 of those (like in the original Xbox 360) and then switch to only 4 modules when 8 Gb modules arrive (like they did in the Slim).
More than 8 modules would be insane though, I agree.

I agree which is why 4GB (4Gbx8=4GB) has become an outside possibility as the launch of these systems has continued to be delayed. Still, considering how reluctant Microsoft were to go with sn 8 chip solution last time and the fact that they're much more cost conscious now, 2GB still seems most likely. Either way, it puts a hard cap at 4GB.

 

[subversus]

this thread made me want to upgrade my rig.

/starts calculating the cost