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[Lionheart1337]

Why are people bringing up RAM prices? We all know the console manufacturers are going to pinch as many pennies as possible and the new consoles will have the lowest acceptable amount if you can even call it acceptable. Count yourself lucky if you get a gig. RAM prices fluctuate like crazy anyways don't they?

 

[KKRT00]

Why are people bringing up RAM prices? We all know the console manufacturers are going to pinch as many pennies as possible and the new consoles will have the lowest acceptable amount if you can even call it acceptable. Count yourself lucky if you get a gig. RAM prices fluctuate like crazy anyways don't they?

3gb is the lowest, 4gb is very likely, but probably 3.5gb, but it really depends. Its 2013/2014 we're talking about, I wouldnt be suprised if they're targeting for 6gb.

Remember the trend of 8 times increase and this generation will be longer than those below
PSP had 64+4mb -> Vita has 512+128mb
PS2 had 32+4 -> PS3 256+256

 

[Ydahs]

Why are people bringing up RAM prices? We all know the console manufacturers are going to pinch as many pennies as possible and the new consoles will have the lowest acceptable amount if you can even call it acceptable. Count yourself lucky if you get a gig. RAM prices fluctuate like crazy anyways don't they?

Rumours are Wii U has 1.5 GB. I'm expecting no more than four, but at minimum 2GB from the other two.

 

[Risk Breaker]

3gb is the lowest, 4gb is very likely, but probably 3.5gb, but it really depends. Its 2013/2014 we're talking about, I wouldnt be suprised if they're targeting for 6gb.

Remember the trend of 8 times increase and this generation will be longer than those below
PSP had 64+4mb -> Vita has 512+128mb
PS2 had 32+4 -> PS3 256+256

Sorry but no, PSP had 32mb. Following that trend PS4 would actually have 8GB.

 

[newjeruse]

I still think PS4 will have 8 GB. That shouldn't be an outlandish number in a couple years.

 

[Picobrain]

8GB is not that much. I would be surprised if they release new console with less then 8GB.

 

[navanman]

Most people are forgetting the fact that these RAM chips will have to soldered to the motherboard taking up valuable PCB space and adding increased complexity (cost) depending on the bus width used.

GDDR5 comes in 256MB units so unless they can increase this to 512MB per chip, it very unlikely we will see even 4GB RAM IMO.

 

[Maxrunner]

8GB is not that much. I would be surprised if they release new console with less then 8GB.

They will

 

[Confiture]

I can't even begin to imagine how much devs are gonna cry about the lack of ram if they release consoles with only 2GB.
Seriously, 2GB for consoles that are likely to launch in 2013/14???
That would be pathetic

 

[Medalion]

8GB is not that much. I would be surprised if they release new console with less then 8GB.

You will be surprised.

 

[KKRT00]

Sorry but no, PSP had 32mb. Following that trend PS4 would actually have 8GB.

It had 66mb actually [32mb eDRAM on cpu, 32mb DDR1 main memory, 2mb eDRAM on gpu].

8gb is too expensive right now, but maybe in 2013 with new manufacturing process it will be possible, but doubt it really. I would be really happy with shared 4gb of GDDR5, but will see.

Most people are forgetting the fact that these RAM chips will have to soldered to the motherboard taking up valuable PCB space and adding increased complexity (cost) depending on the bus width used.

GDDR5 comes in 256MB units so unless they can increase this to 512MB per chip, it very unlikely we will see even 4GB RAM IMO.

This, but we're talking about 2013/2014 so who knows Maybe 4gb will be achievable.

 

[Ydahs]

8GB is not that much. I would be surprised if they release new console with less then 8GB.

Sure, for a PC. But console? That is a lot. Especially in terms of cost. It's not your stock standard PC RAM.

First page poster got it right:

Wouldn't 8GB in a game-centric machine be equivalent to WAY more than 8GB in a PC?

 

[Mr_Brit]

Most people are forgetting the fact that these RAM chips will have to soldered to the motherboard taking up valuable PCB space and adding increased complexity (cost) depending on the bus width used.

GDDR5 comes in 256MB units so unless they can increase this to 512MB per chip, it very unlikely we will see even 4GB RAM IMO.

I'm sure there will be 512mb chips by the time the next consoles come out, 256mb has been available for quite some time and the memory manufacturers usually only announce new products slightly before they're ready.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Rumours are Wii U has 1.5 GB. I'm expecting no more than four, but at minimum 2GB from the other two.

Same here. I am actually expecting more towards 2 GB than 4.

http://www.1up.com/news/epic-games-cost-microsoft-billion

People need to realize that when you produce millions of systems every dollar counts. Especially when a lot of times new consoles are sold at a loss right out of the gate.

 

[Gunmonkey36]

8GB is not that much. I would be surprised if they release new console with less then 8GB.

Retracted statements due to being up to early, and clearly not knowing what I am talking about. Mock freely.

 

[Mr_Brit]

They will, you will be surprised.

I don't think many people are understanding that console ram is not at all comparable to pc ram. Consoles use eDRAM(embedded dynamic random access memory). Console ram is akin to the ram you see in smart phones. You know those $600+ devices that are only cheap to purchase due to the fact you sign a contract for 2 years for?

Long story short eDRAM is not cheap, and is no where near comparable to standard DDR3 pc ram.

Anyway who thinks there is going to be a ton of ram in consoles next generation is sorely mistaken.

Lol wut? Think you need to check that post.

 

[blackmage2k3]

I'm sure there will be 512mb chips by the time the next consoles come out, 256mb has been available for quite some time and the memory manufacturers usually only announce new products slightly before they're ready.

There already is 8gb modules using 512mb nand, by time we are ready the prices should be much lower.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/26/owc-offers-16gb-ram-upgrade-for-new-mac-mini-for-1400/

They will, you will be surprised.

I don't think many people are understanding that console ram is not at all comparable to pc ram. Consoles use eDRAM(embedded dynamic random access memory). Console ram is akin to the ram you see in smart phones. You know those $600+ devices that are only cheap to purchase due to the fact you sign a contract for 2 years for? While smartphones clearly have multiple expensive components a portion of this high cost is made up by the eDRAM.

Long story short eDRAM is not cheap, and is no where near comparable to standard DDR3 pc ram.

Anyway who thinks there is going to be a ton of ram in consoles next generation is sorely mistaken.

What are you talking about? do you even know what edram is and it's purpose in a console aka the xbox360?

 

[Mr_Brit]

There already is 8gb modules using 512mb nand, by time we are ready the prices should be much lower.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/26/owc-offers-16gb-ram-upgrade-for-new-mac-mini-for-1400/

I was talking about GDDR5 which currently goes up to 2gb. It's very unlikely that 4gb won't be available by the time the next gen consoles need it.

 

[blackmage2k3]

I was talking about GDDR5 which currently goes up to 2gb. It's very unlikely that 4gb won't be available by the time the next gen consoles need it.

http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...mars-ii-gtx-580-graphics-card-revealed-994291

we are up to three, but i don't think consoles would have the same memory setup that the ps3 did and have dedicated memory for the GPU/System. They'll more like do what the 360 did and have a pool of memory between the GPU/system.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I always love these types of threads where people compare GDDR5 to ULPDDR/DDR3/NEWGG DEAL OF THE DAY in terms of prices and the amount that other products have as an indication of how much consoles will have.

@ blackmage2k3 They're talking about speed not size.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Maybe, we don't have any hard proof do we?

FYI an epic rep said going from 256 to 512mb of RAM cost Microsoft 1b.

 

[navanman]

It had 66mb actually [32mb eDRAM on cpu, 32mb DDR1 main memory, 2mb eDRAM on gpu].

8gb is too expensive right now, but maybe in 2013 with new manufacturing process it will be possible, but doubt it really. I would be really happy with shared 4gb of GDDR5, but will see.


This, but we're talking about 2013/2014 so who knows Maybe 4gb will be achievable.

Hopefully. I would guess that we won't see more than 8 RAM chips used for each console as it was for launch of 360 & PS3. Any more would be far too costly.
8 X 512MB GDDR5 RAM is the only way I can see 4GB RAM.

 

[Durante]

I don't think many people are understanding that console ram is not at all comparable to pc ram. Consoles use eDRAM(embedded dynamic random access memory). Console ram is akin to the ram you see in smart phones. You know those $600+ devices that are only cheap to purchase due to the fact you sign a contract for 2 years for? While smartphones clearly have multiple expensive components a portion of this high cost is made up by the eDRAM.

When you try to explain stuff to people make sure that you actually know what you're talking about. Consoles don't generally use eDRAM. Some consoles use very small amounts of eDRAM for buffering to decrease bandwidth requirements on their main RAM pool(s). For example, Xbox 360 uses 10 MB of eDRAM for the framebuffer, while PS3 doesn't use any eDRAM at all. And it has nothing at all to do with smartphone memory, which is usually LPDDR2 at this point in time. (LP = low power)

For their main RAM pools, high-end consoles usually do use faster RAM than PC main memory, often some memory type used in PC GPUs (eg. GDDR5). It is true that this is more expensive than normal DDR3, but it's also not as expensive as some people here seem to believe. When you get a graphics card at retail with 2GB of GDDR5 instead of 1GB, you normally pay around 10 - 15€ more. That's right now, with retail markup and some need for product differentiation.

 

[blackmage2k3]

@ blackmage2k3 They're talking about speed not size.

I'll get my coat.

Edit: we are talking about size; no?

Or they could do what the consoles do and mix the memory types? DDR3 System memory and GDDR 5 for the GPU.

 

[Ydahs]

Any more would be far too costly.
8 X 512MB GDDR5 RAM is the only way I can see 4GB RAM.

That alone will be too costly. I still think 2GB is the best option, with a strong emphasis placed on the GPU and CPU.

 

[Monas]

Next Crytek is going to ask that consoles must use I7 processors and run Windows7

"Hey, we suck at coding for Game-consoles because we can't write efficient code. So why don't YOU guys give US an environment that we're good at, so we don't have to work as hard?"

 

[whitehawk]

I remember having at least 1GB when I bought my PC in August 2002 (right before EU Daoc release). Also remember buying a huge CRT screen hehe.

The PCs at my middle school in 2004-2006 had 1gb hard drives... Or maybe it was 10gb.. Regardless, it was puny.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

FYI an epic rep said going from 256 to 512mb of RAM cost Microsoft 1b.

And is MS only had 256MB shared in the 360, they would have been fucked.

 

[dr_rus]

LOL Crytek can keep dreaming! never going to happen.

Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo will be budgeting big time, days of buying wonder consoles that lose the manufacturer millions are over.

You're underestimating where we'll be tech-wise by the time next gen will hit the market.

8 GB of RAM cost like $50 right now. That's for slower DDR3 of course but by the end of 2013 (which is the reasonable timeframe of either Xbox 3 or PS4 appearance) you'll be able to get 8 GB of fast GDDR5 for that money.

4x GTX590 isn't that much too really. GTX590 is heavily cut down to limit it's power draw and on average it's about only 20-30% faster than GTX580. Basically you can say that you may reach 1x GTX590 levels with an overclocked GTX580. We have a 40nm->28nm switch just ahead and I think it's pretty safe to assume that next gen will use 28nm for launch systems too (22/20 if we're lucky). On 28nm you'll be able to get GTX580 level of perfomance from a mid-sized GPU costing around what GTX560 is now. With some architectural advancements 3x GTX580 is quite possible in the high-end on 28nm and 4x sounds doable for the mid-end on 22/20nm. So while it's a little bit less likely than 8 GBs of RAM it's still may happen tech-wise.

 

[BurntPork]

You're underestimating where we'll be tech-wise by the time next gen will hit the market.

8 GB of RAM cost like $50 right now. That's for slower DDR3 of course but by the end of 2013 (which is the reasonable timeframe of either Xbox 3 or PS4 appearance) you'll be able to get 8 GB of fast GDDR5 for that money.

4x GTX590 isn't that much too really. GTX590 is heavily cut down to limit it's power draw and on average it's about only 20-30% faster than GTX580. Basically you can say that you may reach 1x GTX590 levels with an overclocked GTX580. We have a 40nm->28nm switch just ahead and I think it's pretty safe to assume that next gen will use 28nm for launch systems too (22/20 if we're lucky). On 28nm you'll be able to get GTX580 level of perfomance from a mid-sized GPU costing around what GTX560 is now. With some architectural advancements 3x GTX580 is quite possible in the high-end on 28nm and 4x sounds doable for the mid-end on 22/20nm. So while it's a little bit less likely than 8 GBs of RAM it's still may happen tech-wise.

Did you actually do any research, or are you just using the typical "With a couple of years and a die shrink, we can create miracles!" logic? Sounds like the latter, since everything in this post is hilariously wrong.

 

[dragonelite]

What are the changes next gen consoles will use ddr4 i heard its coming in 2012.

 

[Durante]

Did you actually do any research, or are you just using the typical "With a couple of years and a die shrink, we can create miracles!" logic? Sounds like the latter, since everything in this post is hilariously wrong.

Actually, 50 USD for 8 GB GDDR5 at the end of 2013 doesn't seem that off to me. The GPU part is too optimistic though.

 

[Wazzim]

FYI an epic rep said going from 256 to 512mb of RAM cost Microsoft 1b.

I know about Epic's part in the 360 but that has nothing to do with were we are now. They could split the RAM for GPU and CPU instead of going for a shared solution.

But we are still talking consoles here, yes? The GTX580 is a 400$+ GPU and you want 3-4x the power of this in 2 years? Also 4GB is probably the maximum we can expect!

Good enough too, PC games never use much more than 2gb anyways. They shouldn't forget VRAM though, I'm especially afraid that they'll skimp on that.

 

[disap.ed]

You're underestimating where we'll be tech-wise by the time next gen will hit the market.

8 GB of RAM cost like $50 right now. That's for slower DDR3 of course but by the end of 2013 (which is the reasonable timeframe of either Xbox 3 or PS4 appearance) you'll be able to get 8 GB of fast GDDR5 for that money.

4x GTX590 isn't that much too really. GTX590 is heavily cut down to limit it's power draw and on average it's about only 20-30% faster than GTX580. Basically you can say that you may reach 1x GTX590 levels with an overclocked GTX580. We have a 40nm->28nm switch just ahead and I think it's pretty safe to assume that next gen will use 28nm for launch systems too (22/20 if we're lucky). On 28nm you'll be able to get GTX580 level of perfomance from a mid-sized GPU costing around what GTX560 is now. With some architectural advancements 3x GTX580 is quite possible in the high-end on 28nm and 4x sounds doable for the mid-end on 22/20nm. So while it's a little bit less likely than 8 GBs of RAM it's still may happen tech-wise.

But we are still talking consoles here, yes? The GTX580 is a 400$+ GPU and you want 3-4x the power of this in 2 years? Also 4GB is probably the maximum we can expect!

 

[BurntPork]

Actually, 50 USD for 8 GB GDDR5 at the end of 2013 doesn't seem that off to me. The GPU part is too optimistic though.

How much does 4GB cost right now? Moreover, how much did the RAM in the PS3 and XBox 360 cost at launch?

Though, I was mostly talking about his crazy-ass... entire last paragraph. All of that was pulled out of his ass.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'll get my coat.

Edit: we are talking about size; no?

Or they could do what the consoles do and mix the memory types? DDR3 System memory and GDDR 5 for the GPU.

Sorry I was responding to your old link about 1Gb,

 

[dragonelite]

How much does 4GB cost right now? Moreover, how much did the RAM in the PS3 and XBox 360 cost at launch?

Though, I was mostly talking about his crazy-ass... entire last paragraph. All of that was pulled out of his ass.

around 21 euro here in holland.

 

[Durante]

Good enough too, PC games never use much more than 2gb anyways.

That has more to do with consoles being limited to 512MB than more than 2GB not really being useful though.

How much does 4GB cost right now?

I can only speculate based on the price of end-user products, but as I said earlier, getting an extra 1GB of GDDR5 in a GPU usually makes a difference of around 10-15€ at retail currently. But that also needs to be enough for product differentiation.

 

[Wazzim]

around 21 euro here in holland.

That's cheapo RAM though and not market price but the price still amazes me. The same RAM was €35 in the begin of 2011.

 

[navanman]

around 21 euro here in holland.

ARGHHHH!!!
The better wording to the question should be "how much goes a 256mb chip of GDDR5 RAM cost?"

 

[BurntPork]

around 21 euro here in holland.

I mean GDDR5. Unless we know what prices are now, guessing is useless.

 

[dr_rus]

Did you actually do any research

Yes, I did.

I mean GDDR5. Unless we know what prices are now, guessing is useless.

GDDR5 isn't avialable to end users thus any price for GDDR5 is a matter of negotiation between GDDR5 maker and OEM who's using GDDR5 in their product. Such contracts aren't usually open to general public.

But we are still talking consoles here, yes? The GTX580 is a 400$+ GPU and you want 3-4x the power of this in 2 years? Also 4GB is probably the maximum we can expect!

GF110 isn't the best gaming GPU out there, it has a lot of science/HPC stuff in it which is pointless for gaming consoles. If you cut that out you'll get a much simplier GPU already which won't cost $400+. If you use a more advanced process for production (like 28nm) you're getting ~2x perfomance out of that simplier GPU. If you make some architectural changes along the way you may hit 3x performance. So, yes, 4x is a bit optimistic (depends on when will the new h/w hit the market really), but I think that somewhere around 3x GTX590 GPU performance is quite possible for Xbox 3 / PS4 if we assume that they'll be out in the end of 2013.

 

[BurntPork]

Yes, I did.


GDDR5 isn't avialable to end users thus any price for GDDR5 is a matter of negotiation between GDDR5 maker and OEM who's using GDDR5 in their product. Such contracts aren't usually open to general public.


GF110 isn't the best gaming GPU out there, it has a lot of science/HPC stuff in it which is pointless for gaming consoles. If you cut that out you'll get a much simplier GPU already which won't cost $400+. If you use a more advanced process for production (like 28nm) you're getting ~2x perfomance out of that simplier GPU. If you make some architectural changes along the way you may hit 3x performance. So, yes, 4x is a bit optimistic (depends on when will the new h/w hit the market really), but I think that somewhere around 3x GTX590 GPU performance is quite possible for Xbox 3 / PS4 if we assume that they'll be out in the end of 2013.

In a GPU that draws less than 100W? You're dreaming, seriously. And how much do you think they'll cut? Like 75% of GPU? You really don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Die shrinks aren't magical.

 

[padlock]

I think those speculating that the next gen consoles will only have 2 Gigs are way off.

There's no reason to think that consoles released in 2013 would only have 4 times more memory then the ones released in 2005.

Also, 4 Gigs is certainly not overkill. I think it's safe to presume that all games on the next gen consoles will render at 1080p natively, which would hopefully mean much higher res textures as well. Not to mention the fact that the new devices will likely really be muti purpose set top boxes (think cross game video chats, etc) and will require a fairly complex OS running under the covers.

 

[LoganKnight4949]

Not sure if this has been covered or addressed yet(Don't want to read 10 pages of this thread).

Even if in theory it ONLY cost on average $2 more per console to go from 4 gigs of ram to 8 gigs of ram over its lifetime, think about how many units are being pushed in the lifetime of a console.

For example, the 360 has sold 55 million units already. 55,000,000 x 2 = $110,000,000 that would be given up over the lifetime of the console. And is that $110,000,000 trade off really worth it in the long run for a console manufacturer? Probably not.

It's a business. And the cost to benefit in this particular case probably wouldn't be worth it for a console manufacturer or its developers. In reality, we'll be lucky if the next gen consoles have more than 2gb of ram.

 

[navanman]

I think those speculating that the next gen consoles will only have 2 Gigs are way off.

There's no reason to think that consoles released in 2013 would only have 4 times more memory then the ones released in 2005.

The reasoning is that the highest capacity GDDR5 RAM available is 2Gbit, which is 256MB.
Having 8 of these on the motherboard is 2GB RAM.
16 RAM chips is completely out of the question on cost and space grounds.

Unless one of the RAM companies develops, tapes out and releases 4Gbit GDDR5 chips in the next 9-12 months, both Sony and MS will be releasing with 2GB RAM IMO.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Not sure if this has been covered or addressed yet(Don't want to read 10 pages of this thread).

Even if in theory it ONLY cost on average $2 more per console to go from 4 gigs of ram to 8 gigs of ram over its lifetime, think about how many units are being pushed in the lifetime of a console.

For example, the 360 has sold 55 million units already. 55,000,000 x 2 = $110,000,000 that would be given up over the lifetime of the console. And is that $110,000,000 trade off really worth it in the long run for a console manufacturer? Probably not.

It's a business. And the cost to benefit in this particular case probably wouldn't be worth it for a console manufacturer or its developers. In reality, we'll be lucky if the next gen consoles have more than 2gb of ram.

You are ignoring the fact that many devs go crazy over good tech. Do you really think Epic would have gotten in bed with MS this gen if they decided to stick with 256MB? Hell no.

Better tech attracts devs which equals more games. Seriously, cut out the Unreal Engine 3 games from this gen. You basically cut half the big games, so the cost of adding the extra notch to the systems pays off.

 

[Zoramon089]

Rumours are Wii U has 1.5 GB. I'm expecting no more than four, but at minimum 2GB from the other two.

Those are only based on what people think is "economical" for Nintendo...the ONLY comment we've gotten is Ubisoft saying it has a lot of RAM at E3

 

[XOMTOR]

Personally, I'm thinking a split 2 gigs of vram with 2 gigs of gen purpose ram is likely. The next gen home consoles are targeting 1080p so I can't see how exceeding more than 2 gigs of vram is going to be beneficial. You can do plenty of AA and high rez textures with that amount.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Anything less than 4gb and it become a bottleneck for the rest of the system. Its like driving a Ferrari with moped petrol tank. Completely pointless.

Between 4-6gb is the most reasonable target. it would make it about ten times the current console. Which is completely reasonable.