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[Tiktaalik]

An Apple TV with apps and games is definitely something I'd love to see as it would provide yet an another platform for small game companies to put out their products. I don't think Nintendo and Sony have done a good enough job at all of making their platforms friendly for developers of this scale, and Apple has been best in this area by far.

Whether Apple's device would be able to be a good platform for both indie games and in addition for major AAA productions from established publishers is an interesting question to ponder. Epic's attitude is that everything will eventually be able to have AAA production values and I don't think power will be the issue. It will come down to controls and the online services the device provides.

 

[elcranky]

Its a wash? You can actually purchase and load your movies on iPad 2. Nook has only streaming rental services like netflix and hulu and no way to purchase movies. You are crazy.

Oh and book only has the ebook service of the book store. iPad has iBooks, kindle, kobo and not to mention the entire nook store and service.

Not to even mention your claim that iPad having a better screen is somehow a negative.

What is this the eighties, who buys movies? What do you need besides netflix and hulu? Nook will read any epub document and the reading experience is better than the iPAD. The iPAD is much less comfortable to hold because of its size and weight. The is the crux of the issue. All iDevices are all form and very little function, and if you like me and not impressed by the form then there is little value in those devices.

 

[Jarmel]

It's showtime.

The hardware in of itself would be very interesting to read about especially if it's a mixture of the Valve rumors and Apple's own stuff.

 

[kinggroin]

I can understand the apprehensiveness, but the bottom line is this, if it has games I want to play, I will buy it. As a gamer, what else matters at the end of the day (barring cost)

 

[elcranky]

Don't let elcranky's joke posts fool you guys.

No joke posts, just simple truths based on direct experience. The thread title says it all "Cult of Mac" is an accurate designation.

 

[Dartastic]

Screen has minimal practical difference, at least for iPAD2s, and can actually be considered a detriment to the iPAD with regard to comfort. camera use isn't relevant, and there are very few useful or interesting apps on either platform beyond media consumption so that is a wash. Hopefully, the windows 8 tablets will actually bring something useful to the space this fall.

This statement reeks of ignorance.

 

[Treefingers]

What is this the eighties, who buys movies? What do you need besides netflix and hulu? Nook will read any epub document and the reading experience is better than the iPAD. The iPAD is much less comfortable to hold because of its size and weight. The is the crux of the issue. All iDevices are all form and very little function, and if you like me and not impressed by the form then there is little value in those devices.

Dude ffs it's iPad

 

[Xun]

The current consoles are made at foxconn as well..

People always seem to forget this.

 

[onQ123]

PC is different, it does much more than just play games. I'm talking about dedicated gaming consoles. 3 is enough.

Gamecube was the last dedicated gaming console.

 

[Cheebo]

What is this the eighties, who buys movies?

What? Are you serious?

 

[BurntPork]

I've been calling an Apple/Nintendo partnership for years and I still think that is where the industry is headed.

I think it happens after Wii U.

This will never happen.

And thank god, too. I'd cut myself if I had to buy an Apple product to get Nintendo games.

 

[Wickerbasket]

I just don't see how Apple is going to be able to convince people to overpay for their product in the console market.

If they price competitively and partner with Valve I could see it taking off.

Saying that, I don't think this rumour has any truth to it.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

If it supports a proper controller, goes beyond kinect and mobile-gaming and offers real games, grants me control of use over the games I buy and own, and is priced fairly, I'll bite.

Bolded for least likely to happen. :/

 

[elcranky]

This statement reeks of ignorance.

No, it reflects direct experience.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

Not that it is happening in here but it terrifies me that so many people would happily cede all things tech and digital distribution to a single company.

 

[Somnid]

Well I wouldn't be surprised, I'm kinda expecting Sony to bow out and Apple to drop in.

Selling a console is going to be tough for Apple, even Microsoft at their peak had to claw there way to where they are now and 11 years later they still can't hesitate for a moment without risking it all.

They also start with the disadvantage that they have no internal dev studios. Especially now a console can't sell on 3rd parties alone, whatever your console you'll get those games so what the first-party can provide is really the deciding factor. That and App Store indies can't keep you alive, like other 3rd parties they don't have allegiance but convincing people to drop money on game-specific hardware requires those blockbusters.

What they could bring is more DD-centricness and better avenues for indie development. Not sure their classic upgrade cycle would go over well (optimizing for multiple versions of hardware is something most studios aren't going to try and it impacts userbase) and most users don't need/want to upgrade their gaming hardware (especially non-subsidized) on any regular basis.

Overall I think they'd be more successful and profitable to not play this game and just keep pretending the iPad is a console or something.

 

[AzaK]

if they make a controller as well...everyone else is doomed.

Yup, except maybe Nintendo. Their franchises are powerhouses.

Or Nintendo. Imagine all the Apple maniacs coughing up $500 each 18 months to upgrade their iPhones and iPads spending that money on iPlayCubes... Apple could be very well selling 20-30 millions of their new consoleeach year.

Yeah. Apple will work out a way to upgrade every year or 18 months and keep their money rolling in. It doent hurt them in the phone space. Devs just make sure their code falls back to the lowest spec. To be honest I wish the console makers did this to some degree.

I just don't see how Apple is going to be able to convince people to overpay for their product in the console market.

If they price competitively and partner with Valve I could see it taking off.

Saying that, I don't think this rumour has any truth to it.

Apple have 100 BILLION in the bank. It won't be hard to price it better if they want to get into the space.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This statement reeks of ignorance.

Welcome to Apple threads in the Gaming Forum. People have this strange, irrational fear of Apple somehow taking over the gaming industry and making all their "core" games disappear.

 

[salpa]

No one is going to buy a $800 console to play Angry Birds.

Mobile games get tons of support because they are cheap to make. Making something for an HD screen with a real budget is not going to cut it. The average budget for an cellphone game is not even $10,000. A far cry from the millions companies spend to make games for home consoles.

Apple struck gold coming out with the iPhone when they did, but they are not God's who can sell anything. iPhone sales are dropping massively thanks to Android, their tablets went from 95% market share to less than 70% in less than a year, and their CEO that brought them back from the brink of destruction is not with them anymore.

Not to mention, it is expected that carriers will stop subsidizing Apple phones so much. Apple's iPhone 4S costs a meager $180 to make, yet carriers have to pay $600 for it. Carriers are simply not making enough money to keep losing $400 on every phone they sell for Apple.

Thinking Apple entering this industry spells doom for anyone is highly unrealistic and straight up foolish.

 

[kinggroin]

No one is going to buy a $800 console to play Angry Birds.

Mobile games get tons of support because they are cheap to make. Making something for an HD screen with a real budget is not going to cut it. The average budget for an cellphone game is not even $10,000. A far cry from the millions companies spend to make games for home consoles.

Apple struck gold coming out with the iPhone when they did, but they are not God's who can sell anything. iPhone sales are dropping massively thanks to Android, their tablets went from 95% market share to less than 70% in less than a year, and their CEO that brought them back from the brink of destruction is not with them anymore.

Not to mention, it is expected that carriers will stop subsidizing Apple phones so much. Apple's iPhone 4S costs a meager $180 to make, yet carriers have to pay $600 for it. Carriers are simply not making enough money to keep losing $400 on every phone they sell for Apple.

Thinking Apple entering this industry spells doom for anyone is highly unrealistic and straight up foolish.

I'm almost positive that in the face of a growing android market share, apple is seeing MORE profit than ever in regards to the iPad and iPhone.

I do agree about them destroying or eliminating the competition. At best, they will gobble the lions share of the casual gamers market.

 

[Cheebo]

Apple struck gold coming out with the iPhone when they did, but they are not God's who can sell anything. iPhone sales are dropping massively thanks to Android, their tablets went from 95% market share to less than 70% in less than a year,

Are you serious? Dropping massively? iPhone sales have been increasing at a insane rate. In 2011 more iPhones sold than in 2007 through 2010 COMBINED.

Oh and iPad has been massively increasing its sales from quarter to quarter.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm almost positive that in the face of a growing android market share, apple is seeing MORE profit than ever in regards to the iPad and iPhone.

I do agree about them destroying or eliminating the competition. At best, they will gobble the lions share of the casual gamers market.

The casual market doesn't care, as evidenced by the Wii.

And that was only 250 at launch.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Apple have 100 BILLION in the bank. It won't be hard to price it better if they want to get into the space.

Yeah, but do they want to? They're much like Nintendo in that they don't like taking loses on any hardware they sell.

They usually depend on marketing and the brand so that people will buy their products. I just don't think that will work in the game console market.

I think they'd have to price competitively with Nintendo to stand a chance.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Are you serious? Dropping massively? iPhone sales have been increasing at a insane rate. In 2011 more iPhones sold than in 2007 through 2010 COMBINED.

Oh and iPad has been massively increasing its sales from quarter to quarter.

But...they don't have 100% marketshare anymore for a market they created by themselves!

 

[Grymm]

Fingerprints all over the TV screen. Pass.

 

[njean777]

Welcome to Apple threads in the Gaming Forum. People have this strange, irrational fear of Apple somehow taking over the gaming industry and making all their "core" games disappear.

The fear is warranted somewhat, if apple does actually decide to come into the gaming market and just releases a half assed product with touch only and no core games, and it sells millions, what do you think developers are going to do? I wont say that all core games will go away, but it may have a negative effect on core games if this happens. Now if Apple does it right and releases a console with a dedicated controller with the addition of touch and motion then I can see it working out in the end. Its all speculation as of now. We will have to wait and see if this rumor is true.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The fear is warranted somewhat, if apple does actually decide to come into the gaming market and just releases a half assed product with touch only and no core games, and it sells millions, what do you think developers are going to do? I wont say that all core games will go away, but it may have a negative effect on core games if this happens. Now if Apple does it right and releases a console with a dedicated controller with the addition of touch and motion then I can see it working out in the end. Its all speculation as of now. We will have to wait and see if this rumor is true.

if that's what happens then that's what the market wants. You will be a minority. You can build a PC or something.

 

[Kusagari]

No one is going to buy a $800 console to play Angry Birds.

Mobile games get tons of support because they are cheap to make. Making something for an HD screen with a real budget is not going to cut it. The average budget for an cellphone game is not even $10,000. A far cry from the millions companies spend to make games for home consoles.

Apple struck gold coming out with the iPhone when they did, but they are not God's who can sell anything. iPhone sales are dropping massively thanks to Android, their tablets went from 95% market share to less than 70% in less than a year, and their CEO that brought them back from the brink of destruction is not with them anymore.

Not to mention, it is expected that carriers will stop subsidizing Apple phones so much. Apple's iPhone 4S costs a meager $180 to make, yet carriers have to pay $600 for it. Carriers are simply not making enough money to keep losing $400 on every phone they sell for Apple.

Thinking Apple entering this industry spells doom for anyone is highly unrealistic and straight up foolish.

What is this BS? Apple set new company records for the iPhone and iPad last quarter. The market share is dropping because more and more people are buying tablets and smartphones in general. That doesn't mean Apple's sales themselves are going down.

 

[twobear]

The fear is warranted somewhat, if apple does actually decide to come into the gaming market and just releases a half assed product with touch only and no core games, and it sells millions, what do you think developers are going to do? I wont say that all core games will go away, but it may have a negative effect on core games if this happens. Now if Apple does it right and releases a console with a dedicated controller with the addition of touch and motion then I can see it working out in the end. Its all speculation as of now. We will have to wait and see if this rumor is true.

Why is 'half-assing' synonymous with 'if they don't do what I want'?

What is this BS? Apple set new company records for the iPhone and iPad last quarter. The market share is dropping because more and more people are buying tablets and smartphones in general. That doesn't mean Apple's sales themselves are going down.

Sometimes I worry that liking Apple products makes me delusional, and then I read the alternative and feel better again.

 

[njean777]

if that's what happens then that's what the market wants. You will be a minority. You can build a PC or something.

Yeah and that is why people dont want apple here, the market is great right now with core games, if they come in and ruin it, do you think gamers are gonna be happy? Do you want nothing but casual games instead of what we have now? If you do then more power to you, but amongst gamers you are the minority and the problem at the same time. I have a gaming pc and will still be angry if apple ruins the console market. I am not saying they will, but they have the power to, and that is whats scares people, but like I said, if they do it right, then there is nothing wrong with them coming in. I am reserved on my feelings until I see if this rumor is true.

Why is 'half-assing' synonymous with 'if they don't do what I want'?



Sometimes I worry that liking Apple products makes me delusional, and then I read the alternative and feel better again.

We know that touch does not work for certain genres. "Touch/motion only" will be a weakness for certain genres and we may see those genres go down. Its half-assed because they are not going the full 100% of making a viable console for all games if it will only be touch and motion. Look at Kinect we already see the problems with motion controls, we know certain genres dont work. Even if the sensor was better on the Kinect it wouldnt solve the problems of needing analog controls for games.

 

[twobear]

Wait hang on, 'the market is great with core games right now'? How many developers and publishers have gone out of business this generation? Someone remind me.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

I just don't see how Apple is going to be able to convince people to overpay for their product in the console market.

They managed to do it in every other field they've ventured in, I think they can do it just fine here. It's only their M.O.

 

[Izick]

Believe it when I see it, etc.

 

[kinggroin]

if that's what happens then that's what the market wants. You will be a minority. You can build a PC or something.

That's true, you can't fight the ebb and flow of the gaming market, but you can post a hardy "fuck you, market" when your favorite type of games aren't made anymore.

I don't think that'll be the case anytime soon, if at all, but hypothetically speaking I'd be quite livid if my hobby existed sans games like Demons Souls.

 

[Grymm]

At first I thought about how shitty iPhones are compared to Androids and how shitty Macs are compared to PCs and thought PASS.

But then I remembered the other part of this equation is Valve and Steam.

If this thing has Steam and can play any game from it then that might be something worth looking at.

The problem with that though is the only way that would be possible is through an OnLive type of Steam service, streaming games.

And then I thought PASS again.

 

[encephalon]

Rather than a game console, isn't it more likely that Apple is just looking for a way to have people play games off of their TV (like they play games off of other apple products?)

 

[twobear]

Maybe Apple caught wind of Steam's comfy couch mode.

 

[njean777]

Wait hang on, 'the market is great with core games right now'? How many developers and publishers have gone out of business this generation? Someone remind me.

LOL bad games and ignorant business practices is what made the studios fail, nice try though. You dont chase COD, and some developers still dont get it. Until they do, then we will continue have developers fail. Its quite simple, make a bad game with good graphics expect bad sales. Make a good game and market it smartly, with or without OMG graphics, then you will get the sales. We dont need AAA graphics all the time and some developers get this, some dont, the ones who dont, fail.

 

[Cheebo]

If Apple is indeed partnering with Valve on this I don't see why anyone would fear it not having traditional games.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yeah and that is why people dont want apple here, the market is great right now with core games, if they come in and ruin it, do you think gamers are gonna be happy? Do you want nothing but casual games instead of what we have now? If you do then more power to you, but amongst gamers you are the minority and the problem at the same time. I have a gaming pc and will still be angry if apple ruins the console market. I am not saying they will, but they have the power to, and that is whats scares people, but like I said, if they do it right, then there is nothing wrong with them coming in. I am reserved on my feelings until I see if this rumor is true.




We know that touch does not work for certain genres. "Touch/motion only" will be a weakness for certain genres and we may see those genres go down. Its half-assed because they are not going the full 100% of making a viable console for all games if it will only be touch and motion. Look at Kinect we already see the problems with motion controls, we know certain genres dont work. Even if the sensor was better on the Kinect it wouldnt solve the problems of needing analog controls for games.

Lmao "the market is great right now". Every time you post in one of these threads you come out looking worse and worse.

 

[Mlatador]

Even if they do, without own well known franchises, games, they will end up like Panasonic or Philips (and others). Everyone can throw out a console, it's just not the way you can successfully enter the market. I think 3 consoles is the limit.

 

[njean777]

Lmao "the market is great right now". Every time you post in one of these threads you come out looking worse and worse.

Right, great rebuttal, I already explained my reasoning, you on the other hand are to lazy and result to insults to do such a thing. Quite laughable. Please explain why I am wrong, or can you not do that? Is it to hard for you? Instead of just insulting me maybe you should explain why I am wrong... will be patiently waiting. I judge on past experiences and studying Apple, you on the other hand just insult and have no rebuttals. Its sad to see somebody result to that.

 

[Cheebo]

Do people really think the market is great right now? it seems like every other week a game company is closing.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

I can understand the apprehensiveness, but the bottom line is this, if it has games I want to play, I will buy it. As a gamer, what else matters at the end of the day (barring cost)

Pretty much. Price, games, quality online, and specs - pretty much in that order.

 

[twobear]

LOL bad games and ignorant business practices is what made the studios fail, nice try though. You dont chase COD, and some developers still dont get it. Until they do, then we will continue have developers fail. Its quite simple, make a bad game with good graphics expect bad sales. Make a good game and market it smartly, with or without OMG graphics, then you will get the sales. We dont need AAA graphics all the time and some developers get this, some dont, the ones who dont, fail.

Without wanting to be rude, I'm pretty sure that if it was as simple as this, publishers wouldn't be going out of business.

I mean, I agree that to a certain extent there is a wider economic problem where company executive positions are filled with 'professional executives' that don't have a single clue about the market they're selling to and do all kinds of stupid things, but I'm not sure you can just universally insist that there's a single formula for success and everyone that's failed should have followed it instead.

 

[Desty]

Wasn't there an article a long time ago about Valve looking into biofeedback. Maybe Valve is developing some kind of biofeedback controller for use with the iTunes games for their new TV. i.e. a version of Left for Dead with feedback exclusively for the new Apple TV.

 

[njean777]

Without wanting to be rude, I'm pretty sure that if it was as simple as this, publishers wouldn't be going out of business.

That is not the only reason no, but it is a huge reason. Most want the sales of COD and result to making copies, or trying to market a game that has no right to be marketed to the masses. Businessmen making choices for developers is a problem, and when they dont listen to the developer we see closings. Most of the people that closed down made bad games, and made bad business decisions with said bad games. Its sad to see, but it is true. The only one I remember making truly good games and closing was Bizarre Creations.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Right, great rebuttal, I already explained my reasoning, you on the other hand are to lazy and result to insults to do such a thing. Quite laughable. Please explain why I am wrong, or can you not do that? Is it to hard for you? Instead of just insulting me maybe you should explain why I am wrong... will be patiently waiting. I judge on past experiences and studying Apple, you on the other hand just insult and have no rebuttals. Its sad to see somebody result to that.

If developers feel the only way to have success is to "chase CoD" then something is wrong. If they feel the only way to create a AAA game is to spend $50 million and charge $60 for it, something is wrong. Companies like Apple and Valve entering the traditional console market is only going to expand or grow the industry and allow these studios to better target a market that might not be being catered to right now, and thus, allow them to stay in business. This is why I call it an irrational fear. The games you like to play aren't going to disappear, even in the midst of a successful apple or steam console. There might be less of them, but the ones no longer being made are just going to be the me-too copy cats you didn't want anyway so what's your beef?

 

[XOMTOR]

I'm trying to keep up here so I may have missed something. So the rumor now is that this mythical console and AppleTV may be one and the same? If that's the case, is there any money to be made in the TV sector? I thought that sector had slim margins and that Samsung and LG are basically the only ones making money.

How is Apple gonna convince people to re-buy a TV just to get access to a gaming/media console which amounts to basically an iPad stuffed inside (also part of the rumor)?

 

[AnathemicOne]

If developers feel the only way to have success is to "chase CoD" then something is wrong. If they feel the only way to create a AAA game is to spend $50 million and charge $60 for it, something is wrong. Companies like Apple and Valve entering the traditional console market is only going to expand or grow the industry and allow these studios to better target a market that might not be being catered to right now, and thus, allow them to stay in business. This is why I call it an irrational fear. The games you like to play aren't going to disappear, even in the midst of a successful apple or steam console. There might be less of them, but the ones no longer being made are just going to be the me-too copy cats you didn't want anyway so what's your beef?

Apple enters the console market and starts selling mass numbers of Angry Birds on consoles, other companies start to pick up on the trend (just like CoD) and now we have HALO Angry Birds.

Valve I can deal with