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[Razvedka]

Sebastian Aaltonen, former Principal Engineer of Unity and Ubisoft Engine Programmer, laying out some truths.

If I remember correctly, this was the takeaway of several engineers in the industry. The past few years have revealed that the 'tricks' and 'shortcuts' they've been using for awhile might actually be superior in many/most situations as opposed to 'the real thing'.

 

[dottme]

If I remember correctly, this was the takeaway of several engineers in the industry. The past few years have revealed that the 'tricks' and 'shortcuts' they've been using for awhile might actually be superior in many/most situations as opposed to 'the real thing'.

And I think that’s why we are struggling this generation. There’s a huge effort to get everything in real time, but to have a quality equivalent to the trick they were using before already put the consoles on their knees.
it might be a good way to go, but I’m not optimistic that we will see great return this gen.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Sebastian Aaltonen, former Principal Engineer of Unity and Ubisoft Engine Programmer, laying out some truths.

Eh, I mean he's wrong that old lighting techniques "look just as good." The difference with Overdrive is obvious and immediate, especially in open-world games where you can't convincingly pre-bake everything because the light sources move.

He's also wrong that this needs a 4090, it runs fine on a 4070.

But yes. it's still a small slice of the gaming audience that has those cards, and having to support two totally different lighting engines not only means we have a big burden on devs, but also the assets in most cases will ultimately be designed for one or the other, rather than being re-arted for each.

 

[Razvedka]

And I think that’s why we are struggling this generation. There’s a huge effort to get everything in real time, but to have a quality equivalent to the trick they were using before already put the consoles on their knees.
it might be a good way to go, but I’m not optimistic that we will see great return this gen.

It's a tool in the chest vs a panacea, and I think (slowly) developers are waking up to this. Probably also not quite what Nvidia was hoping to see happen.

 

[OCASM]

If I remember correctly, this was the takeaway of several engineers in the industry. The past few years have revealed that the 'tricks' and 'shortcuts' they've been using for awhile might actually be superior in many/most situations as opposed to 'the real thing'.

Except they're not. It's just copium.

 

[KaiserBecks]

If I remember correctly, this was the takeaway of several engineers in the industry. The past few years have revealed that the 'tricks' and 'shortcuts' they've been using for awhile might actually be superior in many/most situations as opposed to 'the real thing'.

Maybe that's their take because Pathtracing puts them out of a job?

 

[Razvedka]

Except they're not. It's just copium.

?

I've seen developers make remarks about this very subject (real time tracing effects in this current gen) perhaps not being as amazing as they thought it would be. It isn't a 'holy grail' of gaming afterall. These remarks were awhile ago.

We've seen several instances already where raytracing wasn't an amazing upgrade (especially for the price you pay). The last one I can remember was Stray I think?

 

[OCASM]

?

I've seen developers make remarks about this very subject (real time tracing effects in this current gen) perhaps not being as amazing as they thought it would be. It isn't a 'holy grail' of gaming afterall. These remarks were awhile ago.

Yeah, that's copium by those engineers. Simply eliminating the artifacts of screen space lighting effects (reflections, AO, GI) gives a massive difference in quality.

 

[Razvedka]

Yeah, that's copium by those engineers. Simply eliminating the artifacts of screen space lighting effects (reflections, AO, GI) gives a massive difference in quality.

You'll forgive me if I don't take your word on it as definitive.

 

[SF Kosmo]

?

I've seen developers make remarks about this very subject (real time tracing effects in this current gen) perhaps not being as amazing as they thought it would be. It isn't a 'holy grail' of gaming afterall. These remarks were awhile ago.

We've seen several instances already where raytracing wasn't an amazing upgrade (especially for the price you pay). The last one I can remember was Stray I think?

Look, if you take a linear game like The Last of Us II, or Stray, or whatever -- a game that is designed around the limitations of pre-baked lighting, with static light sources, static environments, fixed time of day, and non-source lights to help compensate, and then you turn on RTX (or in Stray's case, just use it for puddle reflections), it's not going to be some kind of sudden, transformative difference.

But those tricks only work for ghost train games. In a dynamic open world, or one with destructible environments, or a lot of dynamic source lights, these tricks don't work. This is why games like Cyberpunk, or even Portal RTX (with it's transforming chambers and moving light sources) look so immediately different than non-RT games.

 

[Razvedka]

Look, if you take a linear game like The Last of Us II, or Stray, or whatever -- a game that is designed around the limitations of pre-baked lighting, with static light sources, static environments, fixed time of day, and non-source lights to help compensate, and then you turn on RTX (or in Stray's case, just use it for puddle reflections), it's not going to be some kind of sudden, transformative difference.

But those tricks only work for ghost train games. In a dynamic open world, or one with destructible environments, or a lot of dynamic source lights, these tricks don't work. This is why games like Cyberpunk, or even Portal RTX (with it's transforming chambers and moving light sources) look so immediately different than non-RT games.

So as I was saying, another tool in the chest. Really not super sure why the past few back and forths between me and other posters here even happened. My original remark, to my mind, wasn't even approaching controversial.

 

[Turk1993]

The bolded part is not true at all

Go under a bridge and take comparison screenshots.

It looks realisticaly dark, but realistic doesnt translate to better automaticaly.

There are some huge differences sometimes, for the better, but not always. Some missions are too dark now, and the game doesnt have a built in flashlight button.

And again, there are many visual bugs and artifacts especially on low resolutions. Fences in particular looks terrible, and skin detail is absolutely destroyed in some npcs.

 

[Hugare]

Look dude, I know what I see when I play the game.

No amount of cherry picking from you will change my opinion about how it looks when I'm actually playing

Focus on the "not always" part of my post, ok?

 

[Turk1993]

Look dude, I know what I see when I play the game.

No amount of cherry picking from you will change my opinion about how it looks when I'm actually playing

Focus on the "not always" part of my post, ok?

Funny you say that when you ignored "And most of the time Overdrive is brighter because more lights are actually lighting up the scene and they all have bounce lighting and accurate shadows." this part in my previous post and called it "not true at all". And there is no cherry picking in those shots, you asked "Go under a bridge and take comparison screenshots." and i did what you asked, and now all of sudden its cherrypicked lol. And i don't need to convince you with anything because Overdrive mode is better and thats facts. Just because you like inaccurate lighting doesn't mean it looks better.

 

[Akuji]

its crazy how much better it looks. really shows the flaws of the old solution.

 

[OCASM]

All the light leaking is fixed. Big difference.