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[Durante]

Most of the new information is very reassuring, but I agree with these posts:

I don't remember much backtracking in DS other than to go to different areas that were connected to areas I had been to previously. I actually liked that a lot, it makes the level design appear to be more complex and more connected than just progressing in a straight line the entire time.

Learning the way that the world in Dark Souls was interconnected was one of the more satisfying aspects. I probably wouldn't have understood it nearly as well if I could warp earlier on. I think it's cool how I can still remember exactly where everything is and how to get everywhere, which I realized when I was trying to explain how to get somewhere to someone a week or two ago. I guess we'll see.

Learning how to traverse the interconnected world of Dark Souls, and figuring out how it all fits together in space was one of the most rewarding parts of the game for me (and one area where it greatly improves upon Demons'!). Giving the ability to warp too early might reduce the impact of that.

 

[RedSwirl]

I don't remember much backtracking in DS other than to go to different areas that were connected to areas I had been to previously. I actually liked that a lot, it makes the level design appear to be more complex and more connected than just progressing in a straight line the entire time.

I loved this aspect of Dark Souls as well. Even the individual levels in Demon's Souls were pretty impressive for how they had unlockable shortcuts instead of checkpoints. This is one thing that's really disappeared in modern game design.

 

[Incendiary]

Why is backtracking always looked at as such a horrible thing ?

I didn't have any problems with backtracking or not being able to warp until the second half. Leaving the warping until later really helped make you feel like you earned it. And even then, the warping was only to specific bonfires (although the later patch made warping a whole lot more useful). There were enough shortcuts to open that it never felt like I was slogging through the world.

 

[Nibel]

Though we aren't given any details, Tanimura says the Silver Chariot Rider can be defeated before the traditional boss encounter moment, much like The End in Metal Gear Solid 3.

 

[Ferro]

From the footage and the way they have been talking about their goals for the game put me at ease with the fact that Miyazaki is not at the helm for DSII. I was a little bit worried that this was going to be a Bioware type sequel (DA -> DA2). And that would have made me sad.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

LOL Im still in undead burg.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Dunno, i don't remember having any problem with backtracking, etc in DS.

I'm the only person that really likes backtracking I think lol. Loved it in kings field, resident evil, metroid, and some in darksouls. It makes the world more believable.

 

[Tain]

Why is backtracking always looked at as such a horrible thing ?

The usage you often see is similar to that of phrases like "trial and error". Thing is, "backtracking" (having to go through an area a second or third or 30th or whatever time) can't be an issue on its own. It becomes a problem if the act of traveling through the environment becomes boring.

It didn't for me in Dark Souls.

 

[Zeliard]

I imagine Boleteria 1-1 and Undead Burg must serve as a sort of purgatory for players who can't get past those areas, doomed to forever wallow in them.

 

[Riposte]

I get the impression the devs are fine with Dark Souls exploit tactics and the general potential of grinding. That's too bad, but I doubt they will make the game worse than what we already have. Them not aiming for higher difficulty is also unfortunate, but not surprising.

 

[The Lamp]

Hype train starting in 3...2..

Seriously. They've convinced me they know what they're doing.

Media blackout time. I'LL SEE YOU AT LAUNCH!

 

[TheExodu5]

I was afraid they would remove all traces of backtracking. From the interview, it appears that they understand that it's a balance. Good to hear.

 

[7threst]

I like backtracking. Imo there is nothing wrong with re-visitng areas I enoyed visiting the first time.

 

[BadWolf]

Making warping available much sooner would be the right approach, exploring is fun but I should have the option to warp if I don't feel like wasting time going through the same area a 100th time.

 

[CornBurrito]

I'm torn on the issue of backtracking. It gets tedious on subsequent playthroughs when you've explored the entire world and just need to run for 3-4 minutes to get to your destination, but it's such an integral part of the game on your first playthrough. Having to backtrack is what solidifies your understanding of how the world connects, which makes you appreciate how well the world is designed. People who really love Dark Souls could probably sketch that entire world from memory.

Yeah I kind of like the backtracking. :/

 

[The Lamp]

Yeah I kind of like the backtracking. :/

I think people are going to extrapolate too much from the backtracking comment.

There were times in Dark Souls where the backtracking was just too much. It was awesome most of the time but sometimes it overstayed its welcome. I'm sure they're just looking at cleaning up those parts that could have been more fun. I doubt they're removing exploration/backtracking entirely. I mean, we saw elements of it in the demo itself.

 

[Soodes]

Sounds great! But I really hope they don't deviate too much from their earlier approach to level design. How every section naturally ties into each other with multiple paths and lots of hidden shortcuts, it really rewards exploration as it is. And I do hope they don't introduce fast traveling from the get-go, there was a specific kind of claustrophobic feeling in Dark Souls of being pushed further and further down into some dark dark dungeons without any tangible path of return, finding a bonfire just gave you some rest but going back from there was just as much a pain as going forward.

 

[Raptomex]

I should beat the first one. But since there is no real storyline connection here I'm very intrigued. And all of this sounds excellent to me.

 

[SnakeLinkSonic]

I imagine Boleteria 1-1 and Undead Burg must serve as a sort of purgatory for players who can't get past those areas, doomed to forever wallow in them.

I have about six or seven friends that have been in the Burg for over six months. No matter how much I try to aid them, I don't think they'll ever leave either.

 

[TheSeks]

I didn't mind the backtracking but sounds good. I just want an OPTION turn on/off Invasions at will. Let me co-op if I feel like it and then next playthrough have invasions on my ass 24/7. People have been demanding this for two games now, From. It won't break your "vision" to let a small minority of players ENJOY your title a slightly different way.

 

[Celegus]

Hype train, all aboooooaaaaard!

 

[Zaventem]

I didn't on my first playthrough. But on every playthrough since then I've hated how I can't warp in the first half. It makes upgrading stuff and farming at different places a giant pain in the balls.

I agree i've seem so many complaints about this.Plus Demon's Souls lovers/extreme Dark Souls haters always complained about it.

 

[Boss Man]

This eased some fears for me.

 

[Jobbs]

I didn't have any issues with back tracking in dark souls. It never seemed excessive, and some travel/backtracking in games like this contributes to the overall experience. adds weight and meaning.

 

[Hindle]

Maybe they'll keep the backtracking only change each area the second time you go through it?

 

[K.Sabot]

Only time I found the backtracking tedious in DaS was when I went to the Ash Lake without the ability to warp between bonfires.

Otherwise, the game had brilliant level design.

 

[Zaventem]

Maybe they'll keep the backtracking only change each area the second time you go through it?

I think you might be able to teleport back to special bonfire fires you touch so the need for getting a warp vessel is no longer a priority.

 

[decoyplatypus]

I think the interconnectedness of Dark Souls' world was the game's most impressive feature, and I agree with others that it would be a pity if players were robbed of those moments where they suddenly discover a new route between regions. Still, as long as the designers don't take earlier warping as a license to create a less compact and interconnected world, I think reducing some of the need for backtracking is a fine idea.

 

[Nirolak]

Fact Sheet:

 

[Zaventem]

Fact Sheet:Armor Abilites,Vertigo, Acrophobia, Customization Options

Sounds great.

 

[kayos90]

Fact Sheet:

How great. Really vague and broad "facts" about the game. Ugh.

 

[Durante]

Fact Sheet:

Developper!

 

[The Henery]

Depends what sort of backtracking they mean. When I was first playing through 'the depths' in Dark Souls, I thought I'd never remember where the various tunnels and chutes would lead. I imagine most players got lost there for a while. Now though, I know that and practically every other area of its world like the back of my hand. Mentally cartographing Dark Souls' world is one of the games' finest rewards and finding its nooks, crannies, interconnected lifts and shortcuts is a gradual, dripfeeding of gaming pleasure through curiosity and perseverance.

Dark Souls doesn't really require you to backtrack significantly anyway, at all. One mustn't forget that homeward bones, which are available at the very beginning of the game, ameliorate the need to trawl back to a bonfire when the player finds it neccessary.

Isn't the first half of the game generally considered to be stronger than the second? I'd agree that it is and a big part of that for me is that there is no warp function. Some have mentioned that it's annoying on subsequent playthroughs but I think the first playthrough should be prioritised anyway.

The only point I'll cede on the debate over backtracking in Dark Souls is three what I consider to be notorious instances where the bonfire is too far from the boss:

1) Capra Demon. Running from the upper burg through the dogs and ninja's takes some time and when you don't know how to kill Capra that's a lot of time essentially replaying the same section. It's faster to open the aquaduct and run from firelink but still...

2) Four Kings. No bonfire at all in New Londo Ruins. Four Kings arguably the hardest boss in the game. Very harsh combination.

3) Bed of Chaos. Demon's Ruins bonfire is probably the closest/least resistence amd it's still a big run, past the Titanite Demon and the fire breathing statues. Plus it's purely a trial and error boss first time through.

Thing is, the bonfire distance on these bosses contributes to their memorable aura of difficulty so even the retreading there has an upshot.

 

[Seance]

Warp to any bonfire? :/
This will be taken into account when level designers are adding detail to the environments.
Sounds pretty good otherwise.

 

[Fried Food]

Hmm they're thoughts (or lack thereof) on backtracking have me a little worried.

I don't think I'd like the game as much if you were always moving forward to new areas. It would feel real linear and I wouldn't become as familair with the world. It's all about creating a sense of place.

 

[Ridley327]

Depends what sort of backtracking they mean. When I was first playing through 'the depths' in Dark Souls, I thought I'd never remember where the various tunnels and chutes would lead. I imagine most players got lost there for a while. Now though, I know that and practically every other area of its world like the back of my hand. Mentally cartographing Dark Souls' world is one of the games' finest rewards and finding its nooks, crannies, interconnected lifts and shortcuts is a gradual, dripfeeding of gaming pleasure through curiosity and perseverance.

Dark Souls doesn't really require you to backtrack significantly anyway, at all. One mustn't forget that homeward bones, which are available at the very beginning of the game, ameliorate the need to trawl back to a bonfire when the player finds it neccessary.

Isn't the first half of the game generally considered to be stronger than the second? I'd agree that it is and a big part of that for me is that there is no warp function. Some have mentioned that it's annoying on subsequent playthroughs but I think the first playthrough should be prioritised anyway.

The only point I'll cede on the debate over backtracking in Dark Souls is three what I consider to be notorious instances where the bonfire is too far from the boss:

1) Capra Demon. Running from the upper burg through the dogs and ninja's takes some time and when you don't know how to kill Capra that's a lot of time essentially replaying the same section. It's faster to open the aquaduct and run from firelink but still...

2) Four Kings. No bonfire at all in New Londo Ruins. Four Kings arguably the hardest boss in the game. Very harsh combination.
3) Bed of Chaos. Demon's Ruins bonfire is probably the closest/least resistence amd it's still a big run, past the Titanite Demon and the fire breathing statues. Plus it's purely a trial and error boss first time through.

Thing is, the bonfire distance on these bosses contributes to their memorable aura of difficulty so even the retreading there has an upshot.

To be fair, once the way to Four Kings is unlocked, it takes just a couple of minutes to get to them by running past the Darkwraiths and ghosts from Firelink Shrine. That is certainly a concern for any event in New Londo Ruins before then, but it's really not a huge thing for that particular instance.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

So why/how was the character running towards the screen while looking back at the chariot? Automatic death animation taking control away from the player? Or context sensitive animation that takes over when large objects charge towards you but keeps you in control?

 

[Jake Tower]

I loved how interconnected the areas of Dark Souls are!

There's a map viewer that uses the game's collision data to make a 3D map of the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyTB5vhKGSI

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I do not get what you are saying. Do you want people to discuss with others? Because I do not see why people who want to do that when searching the solution is so much easier.

It doesn't even matter what I want. It doesn't matter what you don't see. The threads here and around the internet on these two games are HUGE. We have mulitple threads on DS2 on the front page right now. Miyazaki & Co's concept of people banding together to gain success individually worked. Tested game design wisdom in action.

 

[Eusis]

As long as the world design's still great and they only provide warping WITHIN REASON I think it'll be fine. It's actually a possible issue behind Twilight Princess's design, they give so many warp points that Epona felt almost useless (nevermind how the item to reliably call her came WAY TOO DAMN LATE), though TP had the bigger issue of the world not being rewarding enough to explore. Oh great, I found MORE RUPEES.

 

[CountAntonius]

Fact sheet confirms 4 player which was expected.

I wonder if Arena will be making a return.

 

[ypo]

Make Demon's Souls 2. The end.

The backtracking and running around for the hundredth times was incredibly tedious in Dark Souls.

 

[noobasuar]

Already off the hype train.

Don't like what I'm hearing about backtracking and have no faith in this new director.

 

[QisTopTier]

So fucking hype, media blackout time!

 

[ComputerMKII]

There are so many meaningless words and unexplained statements I don't even know what the point of that fact sheet is.

 

[popyea]

Doesn't "backtracking" usually imply retreading the same path you took initially? Dark Souls didn't really do that. You'd sometimes cut through certain areas using shortcuts, but you never had to re-traverse the actual levels. I loved the way they did that, and I always regret how that sense of connectedness kind of falls apart once you get the lordvessel.

 

[jsrv]

I just want them to confirm whether they're still going to use GFWL or not for the PC version

 

[gdt]

Ummm....one of the best things about Dark Souls was traversing the world. Very little of it was actually backtracking because of the shortcuts you discovered and new routes and all that. I will be spectacularly disappointed if all that is ripped out the game.

 

[ElFly]

I don't know if removing backtracking is a good idea; the lordvessel is too powerful and rather than having it earlier I would just put more connections between the different areas.

Going back down and up from blighttown is a chore even with the master key; once you beat quelag an easier path to the surface should open.

You can see Demon Ruins from Tomb of the Giants, why can't you go back and forth between them.

Anor Londo is another chore to get to/back to, and if you kill gwyndolyn you lose one of the bonfires so even lordvesseling to some areas of the game is frustrating. Again, once you beat Smough and Ornstein instead of the Lordvessel, you should get a secret staircase back to undead parish or something (since you can see anor londo from it).

If the world was connected enough, the Lordvessel should only be available once you open up the kiln, so you can backtrack to get anything you forgot.

 

[H_Prestige]

There are so many meaningless words and unexplained statements I don't even know what the point of that fact sheet is.

Dark Souls: where even the fact sheet is obscure

I don't know if removing backtracking is a good idea; the lordvessel is too powerful and rather than having it earlier I would just put more connections between the different areas.

Going back down and up from blighttown is a chore even with the master key; once you beat quelag an easier path to the surface should open.

You can see Demon Ruins from Tomb of the Giants, why can't you go back and forth between them.

Anor Londo is another chore to get to/back to, and if you kill gwyndolyn you lose one of the bonfires so even lordvesseling to some areas of the game is frustrating. Again, once you beat Smough and Ornstein instead of the Lordvessel, you should get a secret staircase back to undead parish or something (since you can see anor londo from it).

If the world was connected enough, the Lordvessel should only be available once you open up the kiln, so you can backtrack to get anything you forgot.

Maybe they will just have more interconnections between levels. They did say the world will be more dense than Dark Souls.