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[Maedhros]

Lol guys, it's not like the game won't be interconected. I feel like the option to not backtrack will be added ealier than it was in Dark Souls, for players who don't want to backtrack.

You're not obliged to do it.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Have there been any mention of covenants? As a huge fan of Dark Souls, that was easily the biggest flaw.

Too many Covenants had little to no relevance.

 

[BobTheFork]

It sounds like less backtracking means more a style of Demon's Souls. You have a long traversal but it's mostly one way. You can go back, but with the hub system you weren't crossing over the same areas like Undead Burg to get back to area, you just went through a hub portal.

I loved Demon's Souls so much..I bought Dark Souls day one and I still haven't beaten it once. I'm all for some changes to Dark Souls. It just didn't grab me...I don't know. I was playing it again recently I finally got a handle on the when and where's. I made it to the locked castle and what I assume is the final boss blinding light but I can't get in yet.

 

[Sentenza]

Make Demon's Souls 2. The end.

The backtracking and running around for the hundredth times was incredibly tedious in Dark Souls.

No, it wasn't.
Beside, if you were running around *that much*, maybe you have only yourself and your lack of focus to blame.

 

[ElFly]

It sounds like less backtracking means more a style of Demon's Souls. You have a long traversal but it's mostly one way. You can go back, but with the hub system you weren't crossing over the same areas like Undead Burg to get back to area, you just went through a hub portal.

I loved Demon's Souls so much..I bought Dark Souls day one and I still haven't beaten it once. I'm all for some changes to Dark Souls. It just didn't grab me...I don't know. I was playing it again recently I finally got a handle on the when and where's. I made it to the locked castle and what I assume is the final boss blinding light but I can't get in yet.

Lordvessel blocking areas was really unnecessary and annoying in Dark Souls.

 

[Guevara]

Posted? Forbes says this is the box art:

The above image is the Dark Souls 2 box art for the PC version of the game, which will be available the same day as the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions.

As you can see, there is no mention of the infamous Games For Windows Live, something that many fans of the franchise were upset about when the PC port of the original Dark Souls was released.

I asked Namco Bandai if this meant that GFWL was a thing of the past. Unfortunately, they were unable to confirm or deny. My hope is that since multiplayer will be server-based for Dark Souls 2, there will be no need for GFWL, but that’s just a hunch.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/04/11/dark-souls-2-box-art-revealed-game-for-windows-live-still-a-mystery/

Hot.

 

[Elixist]

I don't remember much backtracking in DS other than to go to different areas that were connected to areas I had been to previously. I actually liked that a lot, it makes the level design appear to be more complex and more connected than just progressing in a straight line the entire time.

same im playing thru first time right now and im loving how areas intertwine and connect in unforseen ways.

 

[I'm an expert]

What backtracking? With hearth bones and warping there is no backtracking. You can bypass giant parts of the game. There are also enough shortcuts that you never even have to walk through places like burg or blight more than once.

 

[Busta SMurk]

ENB has an analysis video up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_r8T6Es54

 

[George Claw M.D.]

I don't see how warping in Dark Souls was useless. I liked that you acquired it late in the game. It would have otherwise broken the sense of exploring a vast world and memorizing where everything was located in actual spacial sense instead of simply associating them with warp points. The ability to warp late in the game gives you an easier way to tie up loose strings and finish minor side quests after you've completed most of the main game.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

ENB has an analysis video up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_r8T6Es54

Thanks for posting, excited to hear what he has to say.

 

[I'm an expert]

The vessel is not late game. It's essentially the halfway mark.

 

[Lombax]

Posted? Forbes says this is the box art:




http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/04/11/dark-souls-2-box-art-revealed-game-for-windows-live-still-a-mystery/

Hot.

dat hope that PC version is day and date with the console release.

 

[ElFly]

ENB has an analysis video up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY_r8T6Es54

Dude is saying that the dragon castle looks like the painted world of aramis.

I am not seeing it, though.

 

[takriel]

I don't see how warping in Dark Souls was useless. I liked that you acquired it late in the game. It would have otherwise broken the sense of exploring a vast world and memorizing where everything was located in actual spacial sense instead of simply associating them with warp points. The ability to warp late in the game gives you an easier way to tie up loose strings and finish minor side quests after you've completed most of the main game.

This. Fighting your way through the first half of the game without warping was a tedious but great experience.

 

[bone_and_sinew]

May the flames guide thee, Tanimura. Team postive praised the sun all along!

 

[Brannon]

Dear From Software;

It would be totes awesome if you were to use something similar to Tenchu's enemy placement system. And by that I mean have multiple enemy layouts per bonfire area, and they get selected at random based on when you touch the bonfire, and stay at that enemy layout for a certain amount of time so that players won't be able to game the layouts. It basically fixes backtracking since surprise!

This is the best idea ever. Agree with me.

-Brannon

 

[Axelstream]

Fact Sheet:

I know that some people are against it, but I really hope that this means we'll have access to some form of dedicated co-op play. I'd love to play this game with a friend, perhaps with increased difficulty or something like that.

 

[ElFly]

Dear From Software;

It would be totes awesome if you were to use something similar to Tenchu's enemy placement system. And by that I mean have multiple enemy layouts per bonfire area, and they get selected at random based on when you touch the bonfire, and stay at that enemy layout for a certain amount of time so that players won't be able to game the layouts. It basically fixes backtracking since surprise!

This is the best idea ever. Agree with me.

-Brannon

New Game+ would have benefited from some extra enemies or at least enemies in diff places.

 

[Seance]

I want GFWL for achievements.

Spoiler

am i going to hell?

Im seriously concerned about tjis talk of removing "backtracking". Traversing Lordran, opening shortcuts and learning the geography and how it all connected was a key part if the magic. I will be sorely disappoimted if there is a hub world or anything resembling elder scrolls' fast travel.

 

[Laurentius]

0krvX

 

[vas_a_morir]

Dude is saying that the dragon castle looks like the painted world of aramis.

I am not seeing it, though.

Epic Name Bro is kinda... well, I don't think he's all that great. That's all I'll say.

 

[ElFly]

They tried to do this with Gravelording, but it didn't pan out too well. (Well, at least on PC, I never get gravelorded.)

I also agree with the need for an interconnected world and backtracking. I really like that Metroidvania style of play. In fact, I would argue that Dark Souls is one of the best Metroidvania games out there. Removing backtracking would kind of ruin that aspect of play. =(

Maybe earlier access to warping would be a better option.

The talk about bosses walking around the level makes me wish they really implement the wandering dark knights this time.

That would have been great in Dark Souls.

Epic Name Bro is kinda... well, I don't think he's all that great. That's all I'll say.

The bridge in painted world leads up to some mountains, while in this it leads directly to the castle, which, for a prequel, doesn't make sense (it is workable if it is a sequel).

The other way around it is if the bridge comes from the painted world area.

 

[Laurentius]

E4PUp

 

[Lumination]

Dear From Software;

It would be totes awesome if you were to use something similar to Tenchu's enemy placement system. And by that I mean have multiple enemy layouts per bonfire area, and they get selected at random based on when you touch the bonfire, and stay at that enemy layout for a certain amount of time so that players won't be able to game the layouts. It basically fixes backtracking since surprise!

This is the best idea ever. Agree with me.

-Brannon

Except this is the antithesis of what Dark Souls is.

 

[vas_a_morir]

He wasn't the first one to say that it looks like the Painted World at all.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/10/will-dark-souls-2-revisit-the-painted-world-of-ariamis

And IGN just got it because a lot of people in various communities have noticed it as well.

The existence of the undead dragon in the Painted World, as well as the dragon skeleton that comes alive in the demo also seems to point in that direction (in my opinion).

Various hints from the devs in the past also seem to indicate that Priscilla will play something of a role in this game, which would also point towards the Painted World.

It's also pretty likely that the game will be a prequel, which would explain why the Painted World is in a better condition then it was in Dark Souls 1.

Anyway, some people may not like ENB, which is fine, but I'm going with it being the Painted World as well (or at least the area that the Painted World was based off of when Ariamis created it).

Oh, I don't think he's necessarily wrong or anything. I just prefer a few other Dark Souls youtube personalities a little better.

 

[Laurentius]

XuOYF

 

[Clevinger]

Removing backtracking would kind of ruin that aspect of play. =(

Maybe earlier access to warping would be a better option.

I think Nirolak chose a bad thread title for this point, unless there's more to the interview I'm missing. What the dev says is this:

"For example; having to backtrack in Dark Souls and having to do all that travelling. Warping was only available in the latter half of the game, which seemed a little bit useless."

Which makes it sound like he wants to make warping available in the first half of the game as well, not that they would remove the backtracking/interconnectedness/metroidvania aspect.

 

[Clockwork5]

As others have expressed I enjoyed backtracking and opening up previously inaccessible areas, finding secrets, npcs and unnoticed items along the way. This is almost critical to the metroidvania style DS pulled off so well. Please no quick travel (warp) from the start... I know I don't have to use it but I want to feel like I earned it.

And those who say backtracking gets old on multiple playthroughs, i say the first playthrough is much more important than all subsequent playthroughs combined.

 

[Seance]

Gotcha, fair enough. Out of curiousity, what other Dark Souls channels do you like? I'd like to check out some more. I like MartyrsBrigade99's PVP videos, as well as VaatiVidya's lore videos. Any other good ones I should check out?

The 2 best DS channels IMO. Also check out Mriwont4get. PvP play.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I like backtracking and Dark Souls 1 handled it pretty well I think.

But I'm not too worried because with the way they talk, I get the feeling you'll just be able to warp between bonfires way earlier in the game or something. I'm OK with that, I think. But it would still be nice to have to beat a boss for it after a period of not being able to warp like that, because having to earn it makes getting that ability much sweeter.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I was afraid they would remove all traces of backtracking. From the interview, it appears that they understand that it's a balance. Good to hear.

This. I liked backtracking too, for the most part, but for some places it was tedious. Partially addressed in the patch; they added warping points to the Depths, Andre's bonfire, and a few other very useful places.

For singleplayer, the late-game warping and backtracking was mostly fine, but when doing a lot of coop it was a bit tedious. I remember helping some friends and one was in the Depths and the other was at, say, Sif, and another at Quelaag or maybe Ceaseless Discharge. So I help a friend with Depths, then trek all the way to the other places, and that got tedious. Even with the Lordvessel it wasn't that great pre-patch. And what if you had the misfortune of reaching Ash Lake before having the Lordvessel (which was very much a possibility)? Ouch.

So yeah, backtracking is fine with me, and I want to keep it; but it wasn't perfect. I'd have improved the inter-connections to Blighttown (the elevator shortcut is a bit annoying to use, and often deadly, lol), and found a better way to backtrack to Firelink from the Depths, and the Catacombs/Tomb of the Giants, and Great Hollow/Ash Lake, among others (especially since you can reach TotG before having the LordVessel). However, for the most part it was very well done, way above average.

Depends what sort of backtracking they mean. When I was first playing through 'the depths' in Dark Souls, I thought I'd never remember where the various tunnels and chutes would lead. I imagine most players got lost there for a while. Now though, I know that and practically every other area of its world like the back of my hand. Mentally cartographing Dark Souls' world is one of the games' finest rewards and finding its nooks, crannies, interconnected lifts and shortcuts is a gradual, dripfeeding of gaming pleasure through curiosity and perseverance.

Dark Souls doesn't really require you to backtrack significantly anyway, at all. One mustn't forget that homeward bones, which are available at the very beginning of the game, ameliorate the need to trawl back to a bonfire when the player finds it neccessary.

Isn't the first half of the game generally considered to be stronger than the second? I'd agree that it is and a big part of that for me is that there is no warp function. Some have mentioned that it's annoying on subsequent playthroughs but I think the first playthrough should be prioritised anyway.

I agree with this.

The only point I'll cede on the debate over backtracking in Dark Souls is three what I consider to be notorious instances where the bonfire is too far from the boss:

1) Capra Demon. Running from the upper burg through the dogs and ninja's takes some time and when you don't know how to kill Capra that's a lot of time essentially replaying the same section. It's faster to open the aquaduct and run from firelink but still...

2) Four Kings. No bonfire at all in New Londo Ruins. Four Kings arguably the hardest boss in the game. Very harsh combination.

3) Bed of Chaos. Demon's Ruins bonfire is probably the closest/least resistence amd it's still a big run, past the Titanite Demon and the fire breathing statues. Plus it's purely a trial and error boss first time through.

Thing is, the bonfire distance on these bosses contributes to their memorable aura of difficulty so even the retreading there has an upshot.

And funnily enough, I don't quite agree there. ^^ I have no problems with the bonfire placement of these bosses. Firelink to sewers to Capra is fast enough. I would have added a bonfire at the bottom of the elevator, right at the beginning of New Londo perhaps, just to avoid having to call, and then take, that damn elevator every time 4 Kings kill you, but it wasn't that bad and I liked that there was no bonfire within the New Londo ruins themselves, it really added to the atmosphere (though I'd be lying if the first time I played I didn't fervently wish for one xD but in hindsight I'm glad there were none). The hidden bonfire before the non-lava area of Izalith leading to Bed of Chaos is also fast enough, and it's very easy to speed run past the fire-breathing statues (the only mildly annoying thing is the Orange charred ring swapping). My main problem with Bed of Chaos is the boss design itself, lol, but not the bonfire placement. IMO I find that hidden bonfire more useful and faster than the Demon ruins shortcut (if only because that Titanite demon is way more terrifying than the little statue monsters).

New Game+ would have benefited from some extra enemies or at least enemies in diff places.

Agreed. But what Dark Souls 2 really needs, IMO, are patrolling enemies. The DLC has like 2 forest stone giants that walk around, and that's it, every other enemy is 100% static. In Demon's Souls, you had the flying mantas, at least, and most of all, you had the patrolling mindflayers in Latria, one of the best enemies of the game (and the most terrifying on a first playthrough). Dark Souls 2 could really use more dynamic enemy movements, whether they're patrolling guards or flying enemies or bugs scuttling about. Also, the speed runners will hate me for this, but aggro should almost never disappear and enemies need to be more relentless in pursuit. They improved that slightly from Demon's Souls (where the thief ring made all enemies go "where'd he go? oh well back to my post"), but it could be improved even further.

 

[Caerith]

Except this is the antithesis of what Dark Souls is.

Not entirely. While I agree that predictability and being able to learn and memorize enemy patterns as a crutch is part of the *Souls experience, there are still plenty of instances where enemy layouts change. In Demon's Souls, you got alternate enemy configs with the appearance of Black Phantoms in NG+, and some enemies changed with world tendency. In Dark Souls, black knights and the Anor Londo gargoyles only appeared once per playthrough.

Anor Londo, at least, gets really empty after your first run through it. Having some black phantom silver knights or something would really keep things interesting... though the emptiness of the city might actually be intentional.

I liked getting to learn Lordran like the back of my hand, but the inter-connecting areas in Dark Souls did feel pretty empty sometimes. Demon's Souls felt a lot more populated, at least.

 

[Lumination]

Not entirely. While I agree that predictability and being able to learn and memorize enemy patterns as a crutch is part of the *Souls experience, there are still plenty of instances where enemy layouts change. In Demon's Souls, you got alternate enemy configs with the appearance of Black Phantoms in NG+, and some enemies changed with world tendency. In Dark Souls, black knights and the Anor Londo gargoyles only appeared once per playthrough.

Anor Londo, at least, gets really empty after your first run through it. Having some black phantom silver knights or something would really keep things interesting... though the emptiness of the city might actually be intentional.

I liked getting to learn Lordran like the back of my hand, but the inter-connecting areas in Dark Souls did feel pretty empty sometimes. Demon's Souls felt a lot more populated, at least.

There's a difference between having a base spawn pattern while adding/subtracting a few enemies depending on the conditions and rotating spawn layouts. I definitely agree that maybe something could be done about repopulating "mini-boss" spawns, but I'm not sure what the best answer to that would be.

 

[sixghost]

So why/how was the character running towards the screen while looking back at the chariot? Automatic death animation taking control away from the player? Or context sensitive animation that takes over when large objects charge towards you but keeps you in control?

The guy playing just turned the camera around...

 

[I H8 Memes]

Why are all of these companies so afraid to say that they dropped GFWL? Nobody wants to say it until their game is almost released.

Also, where the hell does From get these ninjas that do motion capture for them?

 

[Caerith]

There's a difference between having a base spawn pattern while adding/subtracting a few enemies depending on the conditions and rotating spawn layouts. I definitely agree that maybe something could be done about repopulating "mini-boss" spawns, but I'm not sure what the best answer to that would be.

Yeah, doing a full-on rotating spawn layout would not really fit, but I do hope they make more use of adding/subtracting enemies for subsequent runs through an area.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Good news, but isn't backtracking one of the reasons so many people didn't like DMC4?

 

[gdt]

Good news, but isn't backtracking one of the reasons so many people didn't like DMC4?

DMC4 backtracking and Dark Souls backtracking are entirely different things. Like, on different planets.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Lol guys, it's not like the game won't be interconected. I feel like the option to not backtrack will be added ealier than it was in Dark Souls, for players who don't want to backtrack.

You're not obliged to do it.

That's against the spirit of series. The game is supposed to say, "Oh. You don't feel like trekking back through that maze of enemies you already just passed? Well, FUCK YOU!" A lot of games nowadays actually gets EASIER if you find yourself failing again and again. God of War would let you switch to a lower difficulty. NSMBU would unlock the Super Guide showing you how to clear the level. In Demon's Souls, if you kept dying, the world would just get blacker, and enemies became more dangerous. It's like, "I keep fucking dying here, and you just keep making the game harder?!" I don't want my Souls games sissified. May as well call it Sympathetic Souls.

 

[SnakeLinkSonic]

Good news, but isn't backtracking one of the reasons so many people didn't like DMC4?

'Backtracking' is a disingenuous term for what happens in Dark Souls. Revisiting areas in Dark Souls is more like Castlevania or Metroid. What happened in DMC4 was taking a linear game, reaching a climax, and then turning a 180 and going right back where you came from at the beginning of the game (almost literally). The only saving grace was that you got to play as Dante on the way back.

 

[Sullichin]

Getting the ability to warp in Anor Londo made sense because AL is spatially disconnected from the first half of the game . It felt like a momentous reward to be able to finally warp. I hope the entire thing is connected this time -- optional, hidden areas notwithstanding. I wouldn't mind the ability warp earlier though or some more warp points if that's how they handled it. It's not like everything you need to do is right next to a bonfire. I'm sure there will still be specific reasons to go back to places for different builds, just like there are in both games now. I do hope the game is as open ended as its predecessors in the order you can tackle things. I want my mind to be blown months after I get the game that a part I thought was required was totally optional. I like being in the Lordran and the Demon's Souls levels, and while mechanically it has tedious aspects.. how many hours have I spent farming for humanity?? - it didn't really bother me. I wouldn't mind a more forgiving RNG but it's also cool to have certain things that are rare. Like the interview said they are walking a thin line of what people find tedious vs exciting/ a pillar of the series. I'm pretty happy with the aesthetics of the areas we've seen so far, I can only hope that it's as memorable of a world as Lordran.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I don't like the server system returning. I'm fine with weaker online play if it means there's no end-date to online services.

 

[Brannon]

Why are all of these companies so afraid to say that they dropped GFWL? Nobody wants to say it until their game is almost released.

Because happiness is already at maximum; they don't have to give us that news until the time spent waiting wanes our happiness. At that point, they hit us with 'NO GFWL!', and that's when we'll be at maximum happiness again.

Of course, it's still Namco Bandai. It could still happen.

Because Namco.

Fuck.

 

[Cloudius12]

DMC4 backtracking and Dark Souls backtracking are entirely different things. Like, on different planets.

Indeed, Dark Souls' backtracking was backtracking done right.

 

[scorpscarx]

Because people are impatient, blinkered, content tourists with a poor sense of geography and lousy memories.

I lol'd.

Dark Souls does backtracking right, as in it makes the world feel more interesting and less linear.

 

[RangerBAD]

You can always take the long way if you want, I'm sure.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

The guy playing just turned the camera around...

But it had a noticeable chase aesthetic to it and not just your typical run. The character looking back being a clue to that. Maybe heads track now? Do they in the current game? I've played for over 90 hours and I can't recall.

It just seems odd/unique but I hope player control isn't sacrificed.

 

[Hypron]

But it had a noticeable chase aesthetic to it and not just your typical run. The character looking back being a clue to that. Maybe heads track now? Do they in the current game? I've played for over 90 hours and I can't recall.

It just seems odd/unique but I hope player control isn't sacrificed.

Come on now, there's exactly -100% chance of this happening.

 

[nailbombxx]

Dark Souls definitely did backtracking right. It is part of exploration. Plus, unless you catch everything your first way through an area, you'll want to backtrack to find more things so it never seems pointless.