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David Jaffe Dice Talk - Why we shouldn't tell "stories"

No, it wasn't.

And he's right. That's what you get when you title the thread as it is now instead of 'Jaffe's DICE presentation.'

Ahhh come on. Is it going to come to that? Here is his word for word opening speech.

"My talk is actually a warning about why we shouldn't tell stories with our video games. I think it's a bad idea, I think it's a waste of resources and time and money, and more importantly I think it actually stunts and has stunted over the past ten years or so the medium of videogames sort of at our own peril. And to be clear I'm not talking about player authored stories..."

I think it's pretty fair to title the thread what I did. There is a reason I said "story" too. Jaffe's definition of player authored story are stories created in the players mind from the gameplay. Story as it's thought of generally (and seemingly the point of this talk ergo the thread title) is about Metal Gear or Uncharted etc.
 
Seems like everyone thinks they have the minority opinion.

That said i strongly disagree with Jaffe. Strongly.

Agreed. Games are a medium. I believe that any element should be a starting point. The end result is a reflection of the talents of the people involved "not" the genesis of the game's creation.

I think he is insane on the fact that he somehow explained his POV by disparaging the first few minutes of Arkham City to get his point across. Seriously? Literally the first few minutes alone. If you spend your money and you spent hours beating the game, yet you can bring the first few minutes as a complaint, then imo that isn't a problem with the game.

Now his comparisons on game types miss the point. Games made for ladder climbing, competition, art, sandbox or simply to tell a story.... are obviously all different end results. Some may overlap but the end results are aiming for different driving motivations for games. To compare them is missing the point entirely.
 
That's... uh... your opinion, ok!

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Ahhh come on. Is it going to come to that? Here is his word for word opening speech.

I think it's pretty fair to title the thread what I did. There is a reason I said "story" too. Jaffe's definition of player authored story are stories created in the players mind from the gameplay. Story as it's thought of generally (and seemingly the point of this talk ergo the thread title) is about Metal Gear or Uncharted etc.
I don't blame you, but you know how it is in threads like these (and most others). People just read the title and state their stupid opinions. Inconspicuously titling it 'Jaffe's DICE Presentation' would have filtered out some of the hit-and-run posters.
I'm probably too optimistic.
Or just not cynical enough.
 
I don't blame you, but you know how it is in threads like these (and most others). People just read the title and state their stupid opinions. Inconspicuously titling it 'Jaffe's DICE Presentation' would have filtered out some of the hit-and-run posters.

I'm probably too optimistic.
 
I don't really understand opinions that state "If a video game has no story = no buy". Do you play games for an interactive movie, or to play video games?

To me, the emphasis should always be about the gameplay, story always comes after said gameplay. It's a video game after all.
 
Agreed. Games are a medium. I believe that any element should be a starting point. The end result is a reflection of the talents of the people involved "not" the genesis of the game's creation.

I think he is insane on the fact that he somehow explained his POV by disparaging the first few minutes of Arkham City to get his point across. Seriously? Literally the first few minutes alone. If you spend your money and you spent hours beating the game, yet you can bring the first few minutes as a complaint, then imo that isn't a problem with the game.

Now his comparisons on game types miss the point. Games made for ladder climbing, competition, art, sandbox or simply to tell a story.... are obviously all different end results. Some may overlap but the end results are aiming for different driving motivations for games. To compare them is missing the point entirely.

Nicely put
 
I don't really understand opinions that state "If a video game has no story = no buy". Do you play games for an interactive movie, or to play video games?

To me, the emphasis should always be about the gameplay, story always comes after said gameplay. It's a video game after all.

I wouldn't go that far to say I wouldn't buy a game without a story, but games with stories hold my attention for longer stretches of time. Even if the story isn't particularly great.

Example:

When I first played Tales of Symphonia, I played it for over 10 hours non-stop without even realizing how long it had been. Yes, the story is cliche JRPG crap you could say, but it, along with great gameplay, were both motivating me to continue without thinking of the time.

When I played Mario Galaxy, on the other hand, I would only play in short 30 minute to 1 hour bursts before I would find myself looking at the clock and deciding to take a break to do something else. It's not that Galaxy isn't fun, it has fantastic gameplay, but "something" about it leaves me with a lack of motivation to continue for long time spans. I have found that lacking "something" to generally be a story.

This is a general trend I've noticed in how my gaming habits differ between story driven games and more pure gameplay games. I'm more inclined to lose track of the time while playing a story driven game. Obviously both can be great, and I would hate if the industry was just one or the other.
 
I think he is insane on the fact that he somehow explained his POV by disparaging the first few minutes of Arkham City to get his point across. Seriously? Literally the first few minutes alone. If you spend your money and you spent hours beating the game, yet you can bring the first few minutes as a complaint, then imo that isn't a problem with the game.
What bullshit is this? Disparage? Have you ever read a serious academic criticism of a film? How many serious literature reviews do you read? Critics are unrelenting. Jaffe politely used as aspect of game he didn't like in order to express a point/concern he had. This is the exact type of excessive political correctness the gaming industry could do without. All I ever hear is how one game is absolutely amazing from one developer to the next. I'm glad he used a concrete example instead of abstract one (in order to avoid stepping on a few toes). More developers need to be like Jaffe. And, if you paid attention to the rest of the presentation, he talks about how much he enjoyed the rest of AC, calling it one of the best games of last year.

Now his comparisons on game types miss the point. Games made for ladder climbing, competition, art, sandbox or simply to tell a story.... are obviously all different end results. Some may overlap but the end results are aiming for different driving motivations for games. To compare them is missing the point entirely.
That was not the nature of his comparison. You are missing the point entirely.
 
I wouldn't go that far to say I wouldn't buy a game without a story, but games with stories hold my attention for longer stretches of time. Even if the story isn't particularly great.

Example:

When I first played Tales of Symphonia, I played it for over 10 hours non-stop without even realizing how long it had been. Yes, the story is cliche JRPG crap you could say, but it, along with great gameplay, were both motivating me to continue without thinking of the time.

When I played Mario Galaxy, on the other hand, I would only play in short 30 minute to 1 hour bursts before I would find myself looking at the clock and deciding to take a break to do something else. It's not that Galaxy isn't fun, it has fantastic gameplay, but "something" about it leaves me with a lack of motivation to continue for long time spans. I have found that lacking "something" to generally be a story.

This is a general trend I've noticed in how my gaming habits differ between story driven games and more pure gameplay games. I'm more inclined to lose track of the time while playing a story driven game. Obviously both can be great, and I would hate if the industry was just one or the other.

I enjoy stories in games as well, I just find the focus should be gameplay.
After all, you don't play cutscenes, you watch them.

Heavy Rain is different.
 
Oh my god, I was never a Jaffe fan until I watched this talk. Now I am.

Fucking brilliant. I couldn't agree more with nearly everything he said.
 
I enjoy stories in games as well, I just find the focus should be gameplay.
After all, you don't play cutscenes, you watch them.

Heavy Rain is different.

I agree, I just disagree with the assertion that we have a big problem in the industry of developers focusing on cutscenes at the expense of gameplay.

As much as people want to bring up Uncharted, I still find the gameplay in those games to be more fun than the majority of other games out there.

It's not just narrative in the most obvious sense of the word. Games doing ridiculous "PRESS A TO AWESOME" crap to advance the storyline are just as much of a problem as typical narrative exposition and cutscene filled "epics." Rather than build a game around a great set of mechanics, gameplay is being put in the back seat so you can press one button to do "KEWL STUFFZ" to sit back and watch the the story advance. Same deal with "first person cinematics" where you lose control so the story can do what it pleases until its finished with you. Same thing with the "roller coaster" style of "blockbuster" shooters where the player isn't doing ANYTHING but there's constantly a facade of noise and explosions everywhere to make it seem like you're having an impact on the world around you.

Instead of using action and reaction gameplay, atmosphere, art direction, in gameplay dialogue, etc. etc., a lot of game feel the need to direct every part of the experience to the point where you're almost playing an on-rails game.

I'm curious as to some specific examples of these types of games you're talking about. I can't think of any games I've played where cutscenes and/or interactive "PRESS A TO AWESOME" "cutscenes" have made up the majority of the game. I suppose you could say MGS4 went over the top with its cutscenes, but I enjoyed it, and it is skippable, and the actual gameplay (especially Acts 1 and 2) is phenomenal and offers a lot of freedom.

Once again I find myself feeling like the amount of these "interactive movie games" is vastly exaggerated, and even for the ones that do exist, who cares? If people enjoy those games like Heavy Rain, let them have their fun with it. Nobody is forcing you to play them, and Mario, Zelda, Twisted Metal, etc. type games aren't going anywhere.
 
What bullshit is this? Disparage? Have you ever read a serious academic criticism of a film? How many serious literature reviews do you read? Critics are unrelenting. Jaffe politely used as aspect of game he didn't like in order to express a point/concern he had. This is the exact type of excessive political correctness the gaming industry could do without. All I ever hear is how one game is absolutely amazing from one developer to the next. I'm glad he used a concrete example instead of abstract one (in order to avoid stepping on a few toes). More developers need to be like Jaffe. And, if you paid attention to the rest of the presentation, he talks about how much he enjoyed the rest of AC, calling it one of the best games of last year.

Well first, I said disparage the first few "minutes" not the entire game and I am taking issue with the fact that he chose that section as an example. It is a very short section and yes it does serve as a story element BUT also to give the player an introduction to the "atmosphere" of the game. Within that intro alone you can get a very good idea of "what" type of interaction you are to expect from the game.

That was not the nature of his comparison. You are missing the point entirely.

I understand exactly what he was talking about, in a nutshell he is criticising how story-telling mechanics are used in games and questioning how to do it better. But the "way" he is conveying his message it seems like he is drawing some firm stances in his POV. That is why I bring up the AC comparison because in terms of "experience" felt by gamer and driving motivation not only do we experience things differently but most gamers have different levels of things they can except. I doubt the first few minutes of interactive gameplay in AC, registered as an issue in most gamers mind.
 
Always love Jaffe, but I couldn't disagree more with him.

Probably in the minority around here, but story, a game's "fiction" is a lot of times the main reason why I play through something. Don't mind cutscenes, don't mind story being the main attraction, don't mind any of that. A written narrative/set of characters plays an integral part in most of my favourite games.
I agree completely.
 
I don't really understand opinions that state "If a video game has no story = no buy". Do you play games for an interactive movie, or to play video games?

To me, the emphasis should always be about the gameplay, story always comes after said gameplay. It's a video game after all.

Both, as long as "interactive movie" doesn't mean something like Heavy Rain. That was a bad movie and a worse game. Story provides context for the gameplay if nothing else. Speaking for myself it's very hard to get into a game without compelling context. I've given up on (rented) games due to boring/bad/poorly presented stories because even if the gameplay was good without story to compel me I just didn't give a damn. I've also endured bad gameplay to see what happens next in a great story (Killer7, The Getaway, Silent Hill 2 and some others). It's extremely rare for me to find a game that can get by solely on gameplay, and the few that do still benefit from context provided by the story.
 
God of War does a lot right with storytelling, but there's an example in it I'd like to look at.

Throughout the game, you're playing as Kratos, who's a bloodthirsty killer who's willing to do whatever it takes to achieve his goals of revenge and redemption. He doesn't care about other people, which is established by the end of the hydra fight ("I didn't come back for you."). This isn't a big deal, because most players who bought the game also don't care about non-player characters. They care about killing shit.

In Pandora's Temple, there's a puzzle where you have to sacrifice a soldier to open up a door. You push a cage with a guy inside up a slope, protecting him from enemies and keeping him from sliding downwards, so he can be dropped into a fire pit. Once he realizes what's happening, he starts begging you for mercy. This was a moment that was featured in a lot of the game's early press coverage.

Did anyone actually feel bad for that guy? Was anyone conflicted over what to do in that situation? I know I wasn't, because as a player, I'm usually as goal-driven as Kratos. If that were a movie, I might feel guilty or sad (it's not me doing it, so I can assess the implications), but as the actor, I want to do what I'm supposed to do, even if it's something that would traditionally be "wrong", or at least complicated.
There was no choice in God of War. Killing him was the only path to advance and the developer is telling you that it's ok, that killing him is the right path to take. It takes the burden of guilt off of your shoulders and that I believe is what keeps you distant and indifferent to the NPCs fate. But what if you had the choice to either use his death to your advantage or find another way which may be inconvenient for you, but will allow him to live?

Mass Effect had a few choices like this and I truly did care who lived and who died, even if they were just NPCs that I just got finished fighting or was about to fight. Shepard was just as goal-driven as Kratos, but I still was allowed to stop and weigh a character's life when left in my hands and it is pretty powerful.

Also, for the cut scene argument, Metal Gear Solid 3 had me misty eyed and Silent Hill 2 had my wife in full on tears. Stories in games can be pretty moving if done right.

But I do understand what Jaffe is saying, I think. The act of playing the game and being in the moment and kind of making your story as you go along kind of like a kid using their imagination as they play with toys is amazing and something that can only be done with games. The player driven story, as he put it is a powerful tool that we should take advantage of. That was the whole point of the original table top D&D games, but somewhere (I'd say it really started in the SNES era) we kind of branched off from that and things became more linear and focused and stories and characters started getting thicker and more fleshed out. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, player driven or cut scenes, just different and I feel there is room for both styles of story telling.
 
Just separate the two perspectives by exercising a separate lexicon: 'Video games' will be more gameplay and mechanics focused, while the 'video games as a communication medium' will be more about story and characters and such. As long as we're sticking everything under the umbrella of 'video game,' it's automatically going to cause disagreement.
 
I think David Jaffe's argument is wrong on so many levels. First of all, games like Deus Ex and Metal Gear Solid disprove his entire argument. I could get into this in more detail, but for now I don't think it's necessary. He also mentioned that people who wanted to "say something" or "get something out of them" whether that be some political issue/stand or philosophy then they should just write a book, become a politician/philosopher, etc.

What if this mindset/philosophy applied to music? Should music be purely mechanical? If you applied what David said in this presentation to music then bands should just be solely instrumental. What about bands who try and "say something" through the use of music and lyrics? What about bands like Rage Against the Machine? Or really any fucking band for that matter!?

I don't think any form of media should just be ONE thing and only ONE thing, as David seems to be suggesting here.

There is a lot more I have to say about this, but I just wanted to get that out, for now.
 
It would be interesting that there would be a game, which could tell a non-precanned interactive story.
It might start with a setting, but everything after it would be up to 'chance'.

In this case the story wouldn't be in a way of actual gaming, but gaming would be the vessel for the story to unfold and all the stupid things that gamer would do would in fact affect the story.

Sadly this also would have to mean a game should carefully follow what player character would be doing and change accordingly.
It certainly would need persistent world as well. (or at least seemingly persistent.)

This is the only way I can think in which the story is not feeded on player to follow and in the same time developers would not have to think all possibilities for the players actions and try to write story for. (ie. mass effect.)
It would also mean that game could have several endings which would range from happily ever after to beggar for life. (IE. Pirates!)
 
To quote an absurdity, "only a Sith deals in absolutes." I don't agree with anyone who thinks there is any one thing games should or shouldn't be or do. Developers should have ambitions and pursue them. They certainly don't all need to have the same ones.
 
Video games span too wide to make any definitive statements like this.

It always confuses me when someone says that video games should only work in one certain way. Tetris is a video game. Wii Fit is a video game. Night Trap is a video game. Silent Hill is a video game.

There are video games that are very similar to sports or board games with well-defined rules and mechanics, then there are games like "visual novels" which are basically interactive fiction.

Now I will certainly agree with the idea that many story centric games sacrifice a lot of mechanics and gamey stuff for lousy stories.
 
I don't really understand opinions that state "If a video game has no story = no buy". Do you play games for an interactive movie, or to play video games?

To me, the emphasis should always be about the gameplay, story always comes after said gameplay. It's a video game after all.
It's not that cut and dry for me. I enjoy games that don't have much story, or where I pay zero attention to the story/fiction (League of Legends, Counter-Strike, NBA 2K, Torchlight, and plenty others) but narrative just happens to play an integral part in most of my favourite games.

And yes, there are games that I love because of their story, despite having somewhat mediocre gameplay. If that makes me a fan of interactive movies as opposed to video games, then so be it. Those games/interactive movies/whatever you want to call them appeal to me in a way that no other medium ever has. Something goes off in my brain that says "hey, this is interesting, I enjoy progressing through this". Not sure how else to put it.

That's not to say I prefer that. The best games are, of course, games where I enjoy the story and gameplay equally. I just don't mind developers making room for story. Like I said before, I'm totally okay with cutscenes and/or any other method that devs want to employ in order to communicate their fiction.

Also, I'm starting to hate the term "story". It's too broad in my opinion. I don't love Fallout for the story. A nuclear apocalypse after powerful countries go to war is hardly original or captivating on its own. It's the characters, locations, and small side stories that make the Fallout series so incredibly interesting for me. I don't love the Grand Theft Auto games for their stories. Their actual plots (just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!) are pretty basic and have been done millions of times. But they serve as the foundation for quality dialogue, immersive environments, cultural parody, and memorable characters. The term "story" by itself just isn't specific enough to describe why a certain game appeals to me.
 
I agree with him in some degree. I mean, Mario games doesn't need story but I also enjoy the story in games like mass effect.
 
Games that defy the points Jaffe is making (which include his own God of War) are amongst the many that serve as justified exceptions to a righteous rule. Just because we can all think up countless games that go against his point here doesn't mean he's wrong.

I think what's important about what he is saying is not that story is a dead-end for gaming (clearly, it's not; in fact, games have become more compelling since titles like Ninja Gaiden and Zelda reached out for greater narrative,) but that this is now where the germination of game design is coming from in this business, and that's a problem. Game designers are not asking, "what kind of game would we like to create," but instead, "what kind of game fits this story I've come up with?" Developers get roped into fitting their play into the mold that they pre-created before they started writing code. They fall in love with their stories or dialogs or even details and they want to direct (or force) the players to experience what they intended. They fall into schedules and budgets where they have to end a sequence where the FMV being rendered in another department begins, or fit to the pre-recorded voice-over/mocap that was filmed weeks ago with expensive actors, rather than play loose and free when they're in the moment with their creation (or better yet in many cases, allow the player to play as they wish even if it's not what you intended.)

Story is dictating EVERYTHING in game production, from the budget to the schedule to the kinds of talent hired on to the art style to the play testing checkpoints to the marketing. That part of your $60 that you're plunking down to move the controller around and press buttons, that is no longer the priority, no matter how good the game eventually becomes, and that puts us in a precarious position as this medium grows.


...And by the way, some of the titles like Metal Gear Solid or Assassin's Creed or Prince of Persia 2003 that people here are citing have an interesting history because they didn't start with a story or even a setting; they started with a desire to try something new in gameplay, and then a sandbox (or concept build, or what have you that the designers worked with, depending on the game) that they could throw these ideas into. The story in many of these cases (and same with God of War, which I believe started with a concept of adventures in mythological times but other than that I'm not sure there was a story and it certainly changed drastically as it evolved) organically grew out of the work once the game designers saw what they had to work with in the gameplay and in the inspiration of the room.
 
I wouldn't go that far to say I wouldn't buy a game without a story, but games with stories hold my attention for longer stretches of time. Even if the story isn't particularly great.

Example:

When I first played Tales of Symphonia, I played it for over 10 hours non-stop without even realizing how long it had been. Yes, the story is cliche JRPG crap you could say, but it, along with great gameplay, were both motivating me to continue without thinking of the time.

When I played Mario Galaxy, on the other hand, I would only play in short 30 minute to 1 hour bursts before I would find myself looking at the clock and deciding to take a break to do something else. It's not that Galaxy isn't fun, it has fantastic gameplay, but "something" about it leaves me with a lack of motivation to continue for long time spans. I have found that lacking "something" to generally be a story.

This is a general trend I've noticed in how my gaming habits differ between story driven games and more pure gameplay games. I'm more inclined to lose track of the time while playing a story driven game. Obviously both can be great, and I would hate if the industry was just one or the other.

You make it sound like quality of time spent with games doesn't matter and all that matters is that you feel compelled to play them so they kill more time. In this concept games are the ideal "story telling medium" because they force you to press on through poor content by using more tricks to make it compulsive.
 

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I think David Jaffe's argument is wrong on so many levels. First of all, games like Deus Ex and Metal Gear Solid disprove his entire argument. I could get into this in more detail, but for now I don't think it's necessary. He also mentioned that people who wanted to "say something" or "get something out of them" whether that be some political issue/stand or philosophy then they should just write a book, become a politician/philosopher, etc.

What if this mindset/philosophy applied to music? Should music be purely mechanical? If you applied what David said in this presentation to music then bands should just be solely instrumental. What about bands who try and "say something" through the use of music and lyrics? What about bands like Rage Against the Machine? Or really any fucking band for that matter!?

I don't think any form of media should just be ONE thing and only ONE thing, as David seems to be suggesting here.

There is a lot more I have to say about this, but I just wanted to get that out, for now.
Perfect post!
 
I don't agree with him. There is room in this video game medium for all types of games and types of story telling. And types of gameplay while I am at it.
 
Always love Jaffe, but I couldn't disagree more with him.

Probably in the minority around here, but story, a game's "fiction" is a lot of times the main reason why I play through something. Don't mind cutscenes, don't mind story being the main attraction, don't mind any of that. A written narrative/set of characters plays an integral part in most of my favourite games.

Feel the same way completely. I'm all for games just being played for fun, but generally, I play games that interest me. Even if the Story itself isn't the strongest attribute, I want a reason for push on forward otherwise I'd just buy Mario or something that is purely gameplay.
 
Stories should never be more than a backdrop. The second you're not interacting with a game, but rather watching it emulate other media, the game has failed.
 
I mostly agree with his viewpoint and I'm very happy that game designers like him still exist, in the current climate of "AAA Cinematic Experiences" nonsense.

Damn, he is dropping bombs of truth and wisdom 20mins in.
 
I used to suspect he was saying this because his team of warhawk programmers aren't strong at single-player content. Now I don't know what to say.
 
Whether or not a game has a good story, isn't important to me. My all time favorite game RE4 didn't have me coming back because of the story. Halo 1 didn't keep me coming back because of the story. I do believe that a good or great story...good voice acting included can add to the overall experirence.
 
Game designers are not asking, "what kind of game would we like to create," but instead, "what kind of game fits this story I've come up with?"
Jaffe's line about designers having a trailer for a movie that doesn't exist in their head as the genesis of their design nailed this point. They're starting with a 'story concept' instead of a 'game concept.' Start with the game and clothe its bones with story.
 
Interesting that Sakaguchi was on Iwada asks recently and mentioned that his games start with story first. But I think that's something that RPGs can get away with by their very nature.
 
So if we are to make games without a story. We make games about or for what?

When you explain to someone that you have this game. Its a shooter. They ask "Whats it like or about" you say. Well there is no story or anything you just shoot. Without a sense of story you lack the purpose for the actual character that your playing. What motivation do you get when you dont have a story?
 
Interesting that Sakaguchi was on Iwada asks recently and mentioned that his games start with story first. But I think that's something that RPGs can get away with by their very nature.

It's not surprising to hear a Japanese developer say that, but one probably has to understand a caveat about it: Japanese developers have a history with constructing elaborate story worlds in games that don't have a line of dialog. I think this is in part because of their love of character design.

Eastern game makers have long applied the same standards for character design originating with manga and anime, in terms of elaborate histories, motivations, and personal traits.

Mega Man, for example, is a game with a lot of story that shows but doesn't tell. Dr. Light and Wily have a history together, Rock (Megaman) and Roll have traits, personalities, purposes, and histories. Boss robots have specific personalities and reasons for existing, and you can construct a story about them based on the level that they're in charge of.

There's no text (mostly) in the games themselves, but the story plays out and creates a memorable universe.

I think part of the conflict over "should games have stories" arises from very different views on what the story part of a game is. This generation we have a common stereotype of "games trying to be movies", arguably from western developers keen to use their game to compete with hollywood. They have a seemingly singular goal, and that's to become filmmakers competing with the traditional definition of film. Just with some interactivity grafted on.

But there are many ways for "story" to be integrated into a game, including ways that may have been invisible to gamers in the past, and so some take it for granted that "games didn't use to need stories, and they don't need them now".


So if we are to make games without a story. We make games about or for what?

When you explain to someone that you have this game. Its a shooter. They ask "Whats it like or about" you say. Well there is no story or anything you just shoot. Without a sense of story you lack the purpose for the actual character that your playing. What motivation do you get when you dont have a story?

This is the secret art of showing without telling that was a given in games from earlier generations. People think that a lot of old classic game archetypes "have no story, and didn't need them" but that's not true. A modern game like Left 4 Dead is considered a prime example of how to "show without telling", to let the world and the action of playing the game tell the story. Well, that's the way it's always been with compelling games. Even if there's not a lick of dialog on screen or in speech, a story can be constructed that justifies the game's primary goal.

A good, basic case in point, might be the Orbitron, the Xbox indie title. It's a "random" shooter, but thought was put into it with regards to the craft of the player and its pilot having an insinuated history, and the space station you protect being a real place. The inspiration was in part taken from the Wipeout series, which also crafted a universe and actors with purpose thanks to its fictional companies and race sponsors.
 
I think it was overall a great talk. Though I think Jaffe's opening few remarks might have confused people a bit on his overall point.

The crux of his talk is embodied within the anecdote he puts forth, where somebody is pitching a game in the same way as someone might pitch a movie, and the exec gets all pumped up about some big exciting adventure without pausing to think about the gameplay mechanics and why, if at all, they are suited to bringing forth this kind of narrative.


I think this gen more than any other is guilty of this mindset. How many FPS's have we seen with basically interchangeable gameplay with slightly different stories grafted onto them? And how easily forgettable are these games in the long run?
 
I haven't watched it, but wouldn't it depend entirely on the game? I sure as hell wouldn't enjoy RPGs and such if they didn't have entertaining stories.

Something like Twisted Metal? Yeah, sure, trying to tell a story would probably just get in the way unless done really well.
 
Agreed 100% I don't think I have ever played a game for it's story. I do remember a lot of times when I stopped playing a game that tried to be cinematic. Games should be fun to play, everything else is secondary. Quicktime events are a good example why cinematic games fail.
 
I really enjoyed watching that.

Even though I don't agree with him 100% (though, I do side with him a lot, surprisingly). I like that he's extremely passionate about the industry. I like that he mentioned Arkham City, because I felt the same way about it.
 
I enjoy story in my games. If the backstory doesn't exist, the environments you visit don't make sense or fit into the context of the whole picture. Characters with no motivation, outside of a platformer like Mario or something, are boring.

All games don't always need a story to be enjoyable though, but if it fits the context of the game, I want a story behind it; at least to some degree.

As to his original motivation... which seems to have been lost in some of these replies, games should indeed start with a game design, then craft a fiction around that, rather than starting as a cinematic movie ideal.
 
I don't agree with his sports analogy. Take Tim Tebow for instance, he is a average player with average stats. It is Tebow's story and character that sell tickets and improve ratings, not his actual gameplay. I enjoy sports talk commentary sometimes more than the games. I actually get a bigger kick out of watching the guys on ESPN debate whether or not Tebow is a "good QB'. I find the whole circus entertaining. The games sometimes lack the same luster of the pregame commentary.

"It was called the rematch of the century, pitting a revenge-hungry Tom Brady and his three Super Bowl Rings against the oft-underrated Eli Manning."

Tom Brady's story is just as important to Super Bowl 46 as the game itself. The story just adds extra incentive to watch/play even harder. Expert commentators have a way with storytelling that can make you cry for the losing team. What does this have to do with video games?

I see video game stories sorta like a fight promotion. If any of you have ever seen Mike Tyson fight, you know it is a sight to behold. How many of you have watched his fights promoted? The promotion is just as important if not more important to the actual fights.
 
I've been saying this for years. Videogames have too much focus on story these days with lackluster gameplay. Game play should be king. It's a distraction, it should be fun all the way through.
 
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