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#DEFLATEGATE: Goodell never had any balls

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JABEE said:
The Pats already proved this in the early 2000s. Keep the prestige, the dynasty, and the wins. All you have to do is pay the same fine that Marshawn Lynch would have been forced to pay if he didn't talk at media day. Add a pick, and you just bought a dynasty built on cheating.
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JABEE said:
They cheated though. It's clear that they did. I'm not sure why there is an argument about Spygate.

There is still an argument to be made about deflating balls, but spygate was clear cheating.
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No one argues with them being caught in 2007, but when people are telling you taping wasn't a banned thing until 2006, they aren't doing it to make the 2007 Spygate seem "okay." They are saying it because people like you like to discount the 2001, 2003, and 2004 championships, which happened BEFORE taping was made illegal. I mean you just did it yourself (see bolded). Taping walkthroughs or practices ('01 claim) has never been proven so you can't hold that against them. No facts, though, I guess.
 
Spygate didn't happen now. We're through the looking glass.

But at least this explains why Bellicheck is so angry.
 
darkazcura said:
No one argues with them being caught in 2007, but when people are telling you taping wasn't a banned thing until 2006, they aren't doing it to make the 2007 Spygate "okay." They are saying it because people like you like to discount the 2001, 2003, and 2004 championships, which happened BEFORE taping was made illegal. I mean you just did it yourself. No facts, though, I guess.
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It wasn't on the books, but it wasn't like teams were cool with you doing that. It was still cheating. Teams weren't inviting other teams to attend walkthroughs even if they just wanted to set up their cameras, but not to tape.

They cheated before and after there was a rule explicitly banning it.
 
JABEE said:
It wasn't on the books, but it wasn't like teams were cool with you doing that. It was still cheating. Teams weren't inviting other teams to attend walkthroughs even if they just wanted to set up their cameras, but not to tape.

They cheated before and after there was a rule explicitly banning it.
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These are two different things. Spygate was taping signals during the game from the sidelines, which the Patriots were caught doing. This is what was banned in the season previous to them being caught. This has no bearing or similarities to any walkthrough or practice tapes they may have made, which has never been proven and is likely false. Objectively speaking the '01, '03, '04 championships should not be nullified in anyone's mind. It's nonsensical to do so considering what they were actually punished for happened many seasons after and was actually legal during their run.

EDIT: Just saw your edit. If it wasn't in the rule book, then it's NOT cheating. You can't say they were cheating if you admit there wasn't a rule explicitly banning it. If you want to say it was morally questionable from a competitive standpoint, fine. That's an okay opinion to have, but to call it outright cheating when there wasn't a rule against it is disingenuous at best.
 
darkazcura said:
These are two different things. Spygate was taping signals during the game from the sidelines, which the Patriots were caught doing. This is what was banned in the season previous to them being caught. This has no bearing or similarities to any walkthrough or practice tapes they may have made, which has never been proven and is likely false. Objectively speaking the '01, '03, '04 championships should not be nullified in anyone's mind. It's nonsensical to do so considering what they were actually punished for happened many seasons after and was actually legal during their run.
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It's nullified in my mind. It's nullified in many people's minds. The evidence and proof was burned. Any other evidence that may be out there is also probably gone.
 
darkazcura said:
These are two different things. Spygate was taping signals during the game from the sidelines, which the Patriots were caught doing. This is what was banned in the season previous to them being caught. This has no bearing or similarities to any walkthrough or practice tapes they may have made, which has never been proven and is likely false. Objectively speaking the '01, '03, '04 championships should not be nullified in anyone's mind. It's nonsensical to do so considering what they were actually punished for happened many seasons after and was actually legal during their run.

EDIT: Just saw your edit. If it wasn't in the rule book, then it's NOT cheating. You can't say they were cheating if you admit there wasn't a rule explicitly banning it.
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It was 100% cheating. Breaking into opposing teams walkthroughs and setting up filming equipment is cheating even if you don't keep a tape of it.
 
JABEE said:
It's nullified in my mind. It's nullified in many people's minds. The evidence and proof was burned. Any other evidence that may be out there is also probably gone.
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My edit from my last post:

If it wasn't in the rule book, then it's NOT cheating. You can't say they were cheating if you admit there wasn't a rule explicitly banning it. If you want to say it was morally questionable from a competitive standpoint, fine. That's an okay opinion to have, but to call it outright cheating when there wasn't a rule against it is disingenuous.

JABEE said:
It was 100% cheating. Breaking into opposing teams walkthroughs and setting up filming equipment is cheating even if you don't keep a tape of it.
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We are talking about two different things. I'm talking about Spygate not something that was never proven. Stay consistent. We are talking about the rule that was put into place in 2006, which banned sideline taping of signals. Don't change the subject.
 
You won't convince him. Many can't accept a team that has been successful for a long time, especially if their own team is mediocre. It happens in every sport - from American Football, to Soccer, to Baseball, etc.
 
Quotient said:
You won't convince him. Many can't accept a team that has been successful for a long time, especially if their own team is mediocre. It happens in every sport - from American Football, to Soccer, to Baseball, etc.
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Yeah. I'm totally fine with someone hating the Patriots or thinking they are a morally questionable team when it comes to riding the fence on the rulebook, but some people here are outright changing the facts or misconstruing the information, which is so odd.
 
darkazcura said:
My edit from my last post:

If it wasn't in the rule book, then it's NOT cheating. You can't say they were cheating if you admit there wasn't a rule explicitly banning it. If you want to say it was morally questionable from a competitive standpoint, fine. That's an okay opinion to have, but to call it outright cheating when there wasn't a rule against it is disingenuous.



We are talking about two different things. I'm talking about Spygate not something that was ever proven.
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It's cheating. Tainted championships and a fake "good" franchise. Parade around talking about the Patriot way. It's a cheating, franchise that will bend the rules in calculated ways to will their way to victory. The burned tapes means that we will never have a chance to produce concrete proof.

The league burned it before the public could know the extent of the Patriots cheating.
 
Quotient said:
You won't convince him. Many can't accept a team that has been successful for a long time, especially if their own team is mediocre. It happens in every sport - from American Football, to Soccer, to Baseball, etc.
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I know. I just want to see how far he will go with his tin-foil hat delusions. Maybe he can top EDP as the world's most obnoxious and insane Philly fan.
 
http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

Something interesting that I mentioned and was half wrong, but turns out I was also half right.

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Look in the bottom row. Brandon Tate is listed as having 11 fumbles in 35 touches during his time playing for "Non NE". That's absurd. How is that possible? Is Tate a fumbling machine?

Of course not.

According to NFL.com, all 11 of Tate's fumbles during his four years with the Bengals came on kick or punt returns, and because special teams fumbles use different balls, there is no reason for them to be included in this analysis. In other words, not only was the author using inappropriate methods in all three of his posts, but there is a reason to believe he also wasn't using the correct data, either.
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Quotient said:
You won't convince him. Many can't accept a team that has been successful for a long time, especially if their own team is mediocre. It happens in every sport - from American Football, to Soccer, to Baseball, etc.
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I accept that there are plenty of great teams. Even teams that beat my team. The Blackhawks were a great team. The Rams were a great team. The 2002 Buccaneers were a great team. I once thought the Pats were a great team until I found out that they cheated. They are unworthy of the praise they have received.

Derpyduck said:
This is like having a front seat to watching someone go bonkers. Gotta get my popcorn.
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I'm not going bonkers. I disagree with him and anyone that supports cheating.
 
I personally wouldn't consider spy-gate as cheating, but if the Patriots are found to have deflated footballs intentionally, i would consider that as cheating.
 
Quotient said:
I personally wouldn't consider spy-gate as cheating, but if the Patriots are found to have deflated footballs intentionally, i would consider that as cheating.
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I'd consider what they did after they were told to stop recording games as cheating. So essentially two games that they did it in. Agreed about willfully deflating the footballs below the acceptable PSI. If they did that, it's cheating. The penalty for which is a small monetary fine, which leads me to believe the league doesn't consider it to be that big of a deal.
 
JABEE said:
It wasn't on the books, but it wasn't like teams were cool with you doing that. It was still cheating. Teams weren't inviting other teams to attend walkthroughs even if they just wanted to set up their cameras, but not to tape.

They cheated before and after there was a rule explicitly banning it.
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fWFJ6rm.gif
 
JABEE is the engineer of the crazy town up in here.. damn man.. having that much hate up in ya is taking years off your life man.

Can only imagine how crazy he goes in a few days when the Patriots stomp the Seahawks and then the NFL clears them about this whole non-story of Deflategate.
 
JABEE said:
I accept that there are plenty of great teams. Even teams that beat my team. The Blackhawks were a great team. The Rams were a great team. The 2002 Buccaneers were a great team. I once thought the Pats were a great team until I found out that they cheated. They are unworthy of the praise they have received.


I'm not going bonkers. I disagree with him and anyone that supports cheating.
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But Brad Johnson admitted to paying a ball boy to rub the ball down to let air out.....
 
forgeforsaken said:
Has this been posted? Debunks that Warren Sharp Fumble analysis

http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/
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More than Half of my post the past week has been explaining how Sharps report was manipulating numbers:

Caja 117 said:
i know why it didnt include the N.O saints, still, Data is been manipulated to get specific numbers. Also, for those teams that play on dome stadium games why not include the away home games that were out doors? They didnt play 16 games in their home stadium, and did the report also excluded all the game the Pats played in a Dome stadium as well?Did the report also analized how good the opposing was good at forcing fumbles? Given two NFL teams can face different teams in a season, especially NFC vs AFC teams?
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But that doesn't matter, people already made up their mind if they Cheated or not, if the investigation report concludes the Pats didnt do anything wrong, most people will just say that is the NFL covering this out.
 
Derpyduck said:
Tyson admitted he was wrong today. That's what happens when attention whores try to use a national news story to push themselves.
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He did, but he's still wrong when he corrected himself. He still hasn't taken into account "rubbing" the football or simulating one that is also wet.
 
Hey guys, the Pats didn't cheat. They just made a rule afterwards to prevent them of ever doing it again. That's not cheating. Nope. Now where is that snowplow, we need to deflate some balls.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

Something interesting that I mentioned and was half wrong, but turns out I was also half right.
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Not just that... but wtf... BenJarvis GreenEllis ended up with 500 receptions and only 24 carries for the rest of his career...? That... that can't be right, haha.

Almost the entire difference is made up by 1 player who, as you point out, is a special teamer, and even regardless of that, the rest of the data looks so fucked up.
 
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