Support NeoGAF

[Jest Chillin]

"The game population remained strong" is not a valid argument against being angry that they're leaving out basic social features in a social video game. Please stop making excuses for Bungie.

It's not an argument against being angry. It's an argument against the claim that it "hurts the game."

I never said that it didn't make some people angry. I said that it didn't hurt the game. Some people being angry =/= hurting the game. Someone will always be unhappy with some aspect of any game. It's impossible to please everyone. However there is a very big gulf between some people being unhappy about decisions a dev makes and a game actually suffering from decisions a dev makes.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It's not an argument against being angry. It's an argument against the claim that it "hurts the game."

I never said that it didn't make some people angry. I said that it didn't hurt the game. Some people being angry =/= hurting the game. Someone will always be unhappy with some aspect of any game. It's impossible to please everyone. However there is a very big gulf between some people being unhappy about decisions a dev makes and a game actually suffering from decisions a dev makes.

So what is the point of your argument exactly? You think that missing basic social features doesn't hurt the game. Okay, great.

Many other people think it does hurt the game. And if they add those features, it literally doesn't impact you at all.

So you're just arguing and defending the decision for the sake of arguing and defending.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Seriously Bungie? Jesus Christ it's like they never learn.

They don't. I assumed people had figured this out after Halo 2 and 3 were so different from Halo CE.

 

[Jest Chillin]

So what is the point of your argument exactly? You think that missing basic social features doesn't hurt the game. Okay, great.

Many other people think it does hurt the game. And if they add those features, it literally doesn't impact you at all.

So you're just arguing and defending the decision for the sake of arguing and defending.

The point that I'm making is that during our discussions, I've actually provided context and backing information to support my stance. You haven't. Yet you continually try to paint my argument as having no base while painting yours, which is purely based on feeling, as objective fact.

Again, I'm not the one being unreasonable in the discussion. You feel the way you feel. I get it. But stop trying to paint opposing viewpoints as baseless when they're not.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Thinking the game should not have in-game LFG for heroic is absolutely baseless. I'm sorry, but it is.

You wouldn't be forced to use it and it would work the same way as an LFG website -- except in the actual damn game and it would be a much faster process.

 

[Big Blue]

Thinking the game should not have in-game LFG for heroic is absolutely baseless. I'm sorry, but it is.

You wouldn't be forced to use it and it would work the same way as an LFG website -- except in the actual damn game and it would be a much faster process.

It's elitist to think otherwise. There is no reason not to have an OPTIONAL feature that can be so easily avoided if you prefer. I have literally spent more time looking for a raid on a hal-baked fansite, than playing one.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Thinking the game should not have in-game LFG for heroic is absolutely baseless. I'm sorry, but it is.

You wouldn't be forced to use it and it would work the same way as an LFG website -- except in the actual damn game and it would be a much faster process.

It's not baseless as, again, there is precedence in it effecting the community negatively in other games.

More importantly though, that's not an argument I've made here. What I've discussed is what appears to be the intent of Guided Games and how I fail to see how Guided Games is a bad thing.

 

[xealo]

No game in 2017 should need external matchmaking tools.

WoW has an internal raid finder and those fights are infinitely more complicated than Destiny raids.

Personally I think it's a content/time block as it keeps more people playing and striving longer.

Those WoW internal raid finder bosses are also tuned to be complete jokes made to be beatable by any random assortment of players with minimal team work, skill, and tries per boss. Trade chat pugs are also just decent at best most of the time.

The actually good group finder tools for WoW aren't all that different from how destiny had things, e.g website for WoW pugging on higher skill levels, or outright gaming clans and guilds recruiting via forums.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It's elitist to think otherwise. There is no reason not to have an OPTIONAL feature that can be so easily avoided if you prefer. I have literally spent more time looking for a raid on a hal-baked fansite, than playing one.

It's absolutely amazing.

Even more so for non-Raid activities. The fact that I needed to go use an outside LFG site for Challenge of the Elders is ridiculous on every possible level.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

This...

Thinking the game should not have in-game LFG for heroic is absolutely baseless. I'm sorry, but it is.

You wouldn't be forced to use it and it would work the same way as an LFG website -- except in the actual damn game and it would be a much faster process.

...and this...

It's elitist to think otherwise. There is no reason not to have an OPTIONAL feature that can be so easily avoided if you prefer. I have literally spent more time looking for a raid on a hal-baked fansite, than playing one.

...are what it comes down to for me. The only excuse I'm seeing is "People might have a bad time sometimes! Then they'll blame Bungie!". First of all, stop patronizing everyone who isn't elite enough to have constant access to 5 other people they can raid with. Second, do you really care? How does it affect you? Do you think people being irrationally mad at Bungie for a bad raid experience is going to affect the game any differently than people quitting the game altogether because they can't get a raid team together in the first place? Give people the option and let them decide for themselves instead of acting like the "I know better than you" parent. No reason to not have this stuff in game.

 

[Orthogonal]

I think that largely the problem with Heroic Guided Games is that the people running Heroic modes don't want to spend time teaching less experienced players how to beat encounters. Heroic Mode is not for teaching......the harsh rules and restrictions on it are not conducive to a learning environment. Players simply want well-experienced and well-geared teammates who don't need to have their hands held. They aren't going to tolerate some greenhorn who dies 2 minutes into a fight and effectively ruins a boss attempt since they can't be revived.

Which is why they never should have named it "guided games" and instead just LFG. Heroic mode players will still have to rely on 3rd party apps to enable functions not available in the game even though a tool to facilitate it exists.

 

[Hatefilled Vengeance]

Bungie is hopeless.

 

[katsais]

Not a big deal and not a surprise. Bungie seems to want Destiny to be as low-maintenance as possible. And if players have been dependent on LFG all is time, what incentive does Bungie have go maintain yet another feature?

Would it be good for players? Yes. But Bungie has shown multiple times that they won't use resources until needed. It took them 2 years to fix the damn Firefly-game-crashing bug.

But to give them the benefit of the doubt, how many players would actually use in-game MM for Challenge Mode Raids? Maybe fewer than we think.

 

[gatti-man]

Thinking the game should not have in-game LFG for heroic is absolutely baseless. I'm sorry, but it is.

You wouldn't be forced to use it and it would work the same way as an LFG website -- except in the actual damn game and it would be a much faster process.

Agreed. I gave *Bungie a pass for the first game because it was forging new ground but to not do it in destiny 2 without having to support legacy hardware...it's bullshit and definitely hurts the game.

 

[tizorres]

Pretty easy work around tbh

- join normal lfg
- "hey wanna try heroic"
- "yeah"
- "k, join the party chat"
- regroup without the lfg
- party up
- start heroic

 

[Orthogonal]

Pretty easy work around tbh

- join normal lfg
- "hey wanna try heroic"
- "yeah"
- "k, join the party chat"
- regroup without the lfg
- party up
- start heroic

We shouldn't need a work around though.

Also, I expect this work around to be common enough Bungie will see the light and change it.

 

[Ominym]

I think the thing that pains me the most about this stuff isn't that Bungie just "doesn't get it" or "hasn't learned", it's that they absolutely know about these user experience quality of life enhancements and simply ignore them because they believe they know better.

For a company that employs some of the best designers in the industry, they're pretty big on form over function.

 

[Kyoufu]

I think the thing that pains me the most about this stuff isn't that Bungie just "doesn't get it" or "hasn't learned", it's that they absolutely know about these user experience quality of life enhancements and simply ignore them because they believe they know better.

For a company that employs some of the best designers in the industry, they're pretty big on form over function.

They're very stubborn for some reason. Luke Smith always says that he wants players to have a good time and that Destiny 2 will unhide the fun. Limiting players in what they can do isn't unhiding anything. You're preventing them from attempting to have a good time, Luke.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Pretty easy work around tbh

- join normal lfg
- "hey wanna try heroic"
- "yeah"
- "k, join the party chat"
- regroup without the lfg
- party up
- start heroic

This is pretty much what every one is going to do so it's stupid on bungie's part to have this restriction.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Ah, so it's a useless feature then. Good to know, Bungie.

How fucking ignorant can you be? They can't be that ignorant. They have to be aware of what they're doing. I'd simply like to hear the reason why. And it better not be that "toxic players" bullshit excuse they said before. I want the real fucking reason.

 

[border]

I suspect that people will pretty much create and name their clans "Heroic Raid" or "Heroic Raiders" or "Heroics Only".

Oh look, the Heroic Raiders want to find a group for the raid -- I wonder which version they're doing?