Like the rest said, the damage dealt and receive would be minimal and players won't get rejected or discriminated when posting on LFG. Remember forever 29, nobody wants to raid with a player lesser than 30.
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Destiny: The Taken King - Year 2 Reveal - Stream (Summary in OP)
- Thread starter EloquentM
- Start date
Like the rest said, the damage dealt and receive would be minimal and players won't get rejected or discriminated when posting on LFG. Remember forever 29, nobody wants to raid with a player lesser than 30.
robertsan21
Member
200 marks cap split over 3 characters aint really all that great.
Wont this mean that we have to go to tower a lot seeing you will get marks from basically everything you do now, nightfall, weekly, strikes, daily, cruciable. They made it so we didnt have to load up tower all the time to return bounties..now they make us do this?
400 would be a better cap.
Wont this mean that we have to go to tower a lot seeing you will get marks from basically everything you do now, nightfall, weekly, strikes, daily, cruciable. They made it so we didnt have to load up tower all the time to return bounties..now they make us do this?
400 would be a better cap.
Kojirospath
Member
Now you'll just be discriminated based on your light level.
Yeah. Not a fan of the 200 marks cap. It's great that they combined both currencies and made them a shared ressource between all characters but the 200 cap is ridiculous even without weekly limits. I'm sitting on 200 vanguard marks with all three characters. Right now I could easily buy a few weapons or a bunch of gear but in TTK I will be limited to one expensive item across all three characters before I have to grind for more marks again.
Only just seen this thread haha, but no worries OP! I got home from work last night before the stream started and my mouse decided to quit out on me so I just watched the stream on my phone.
Definitely looking forward to TTK now, four weeks ago I couldn't have cared less but now it's one of my most anticipated releases in September!
Definitely looking forward to TTK now, four weeks ago I couldn't have cared less but now it's one of my most anticipated releases in September!
It is "stacking cap" only. There is no reset limit as for current Vanguard/Crucible marks (where you can only earn 100 per week).
I find new system better, especially because it stacks marks from all 3 characters in one pool and encourages playing various modes.
I should have been more specific about there not being matchmaking for Raids, yes there is Matchmaking for some stuff, so now the poster is using rock solid extrapolation of anecdotal evidence. The difference is vast.
This may shock you learn, but if there was Raid matchmaking theres *gasp* nothing forcing you to use it. You could still trawl lfg like some desperate raiding lonely hearts. If the groups you make using online tools are uniformly excellent then Im sure people would stick with them once matchmaking was introduced? Right? And those of us who would like integrated matchmaking for Raids could take our chances
Tragically my anecdotal experience with Weeklies vs Destinylfg boards is the opposite of yours, do they cancel one another out or do they have to fight?
Nice try champ, would you like to see the screenshots I took in alpha? Want me to post my time played or Raid clear achievements? It couldnt possibly be that there are people who have played the game but have a different opinion? No it couldnt be that.
Which takes place outside the game. As much fun as having (literally) the same "debate" is every time this gets brought up I'll bow out here
Breakfast at Noon
Member
*smug has all exotics and leveled post*
No way i'm leveling them again for a upgrade, fuck that.
No way i'm leveling them again for a upgrade, fuck that.
Robdraggoo
Member
One thing they didnt mention was what are we going to do with our stock pile of class upgrade materials.
They didnt show the exchange method
They didnt show the exchange method
They probably just convert automatically when the dlc launches.
The Destiny subreddit has an excellent guide for people coming back to the game that details pretty specifically what's changed since the last time you've played, whether it was at launch, after The Dark Below, right before House of Wolves, etc.
I don't know much about how clan systems work in other MMOs - the only real experience I have is with whatever they were called in FFXIV - but outside of direct text chat, what other clan features are included in the game itself and *not* redirected to external websites? The way I found an interesting crew to run with in FFXIV was by going to Reddit; otherwise I would have just joined the GAF guild if I could get on the server, which is literally the exact same ways I've found people to join up with in Destiny.
Re: the bolded (and I think this is where a lot of the friction of this endless debate occurs) -- the thing is that it's only significantly hard for people to find other players if they choose not to use other Internet sources. Which is fine from a "principle of the matter" standpoint, I guess, but the ironic part is that folks are posting on GAF to criticize having to go on a message board to find people to play with. So rather than a conversation that's meant to help people enjoy the game, the "MM vs. no MM" debate on Destiny becomes a clash of ideologies, which literally never ends. I'm in the camp that really strongly pushes people to try finding people on Reddit, the100.io or even destinylfg.net (though the latter isn't always great for brand-new folks) because it worked for me, and because hell, if you've already bought the game, loading up a web browser and spending some time setting up a session is an inconvenience but it sure beats feeling like you've wasted money. I will happily criticize the game for not including matchmaking in all features, because that kind of choice won't effect my ability to still use other out-of-game resources -- but I'll also consistently recommend that people bend their stance on principle and just use a simple ol' website from time to time.
I know it's anecdotal, so take with salt, but here's where I'm coming from: I'm on PS3, which is the least-populated Destiny platform IIRC, and I spent about 45-60 minutes in a sherpa run on the Crota's End raid with a super-helpful and friendly guide named Whoosk who is a mod on the /r/destinysherpa subreddit. He took a crew of somewhat new people and taught them the basic, legit and non-cheese mechanics for every aspect of the raid, and he gave each person the chance to try out the more intricate mechanics like the bridge and running sword. It was fantastically helpful, and even though I'd run CE a few times already I learned a lot of new mechanics. I found him on Reddit when I was asking for help. The ideal scenario is that there'd be an in-game method for him to post that he's looking to help out new players, but short of that, I'd much rather tell people "Go to Reddit and find helpers."
Sorry for the derail here -- every Destiny thread invariably becomes a referendum on matchmaking. I do hope that future iterations of Destiny include better options for finding similar-minded players and giving new players the chance to be paired with helpful, more experienced folks. Maybe some LFG flags for sherpas and bonuses for helping out new players? Maybe a special clan/faction with bonuses that enable people to earn more gear for running raids multiple times.
Absolutely agree that MM is really a symptom. I've had nothing but love for the100.io (which is an appointment-based LFG for Destiny - I plug this thing every chance I get because a lot of people don't know about it and it's fantastic) and /r/fireteams on reddit is pretty great too, but I'd be happy to use MM if it were available. And in reality, the best "want to find people to play with" option is simply having a stocked friend list with people already playing - the invite and join options are already built-in. I've never even bothered with clans or anything on bungie.net because it seems pretty pointless.
I don't know much about how clan systems work in other MMOs - the only real experience I have is with whatever they were called in FFXIV - but outside of direct text chat, what other clan features are included in the game itself and *not* redirected to external websites? The way I found an interesting crew to run with in FFXIV was by going to Reddit; otherwise I would have just joined the GAF guild if I could get on the server, which is literally the exact same ways I've found people to join up with in Destiny.
Re: the bolded (and I think this is where a lot of the friction of this endless debate occurs) -- the thing is that it's only significantly hard for people to find other players if they choose not to use other Internet sources. Which is fine from a "principle of the matter" standpoint, I guess, but the ironic part is that folks are posting on GAF to criticize having to go on a message board to find people to play with. So rather than a conversation that's meant to help people enjoy the game, the "MM vs. no MM" debate on Destiny becomes a clash of ideologies, which literally never ends. I'm in the camp that really strongly pushes people to try finding people on Reddit, the100.io or even destinylfg.net (though the latter isn't always great for brand-new folks) because it worked for me, and because hell, if you've already bought the game, loading up a web browser and spending some time setting up a session is an inconvenience but it sure beats feeling like you've wasted money. I will happily criticize the game for not including matchmaking in all features, because that kind of choice won't effect my ability to still use other out-of-game resources -- but I'll also consistently recommend that people bend their stance on principle and just use a simple ol' website from time to time.
I know it's anecdotal, so take with salt, but here's where I'm coming from: I'm on PS3, which is the least-populated Destiny platform IIRC, and I spent about 45-60 minutes in a sherpa run on the Crota's End raid with a super-helpful and friendly guide named Whoosk who is a mod on the /r/destinysherpa subreddit. He took a crew of somewhat new people and taught them the basic, legit and non-cheese mechanics for every aspect of the raid, and he gave each person the chance to try out the more intricate mechanics like the bridge and running sword. It was fantastically helpful, and even though I'd run CE a few times already I learned a lot of new mechanics. I found him on Reddit when I was asking for help. The ideal scenario is that there'd be an in-game method for him to post that he's looking to help out new players, but short of that, I'd much rather tell people "Go to Reddit and find helpers."
Sorry for the derail here -- every Destiny thread invariably becomes a referendum on matchmaking. I do hope that future iterations of Destiny include better options for finding similar-minded players and giving new players the chance to be paired with helpful, more experienced folks. Maybe some LFG flags for sherpas and bonuses for helping out new players? Maybe a special clan/faction with bonuses that enable people to earn more gear for running raids multiple times.
king grimlock
Member
Is there a list of year 1 exotics that will go into year 2 already? I skimmed the OP twice and the last few pages and didn't see anything.
Robdraggoo
Member
He had a bunch in the vault still. Im curious. Also i wonder what the exchange rate on marks to commendations will be, it cant be 1-1. Thst would be too awesome
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Yeah, this is the big thing for me. It's one thing to not have matchmaking, but to not have matchmaking AND have no in-game method of viably getting a group together is just boneheaded. I don't care how easy it is or how friendly destinygaf is, you should not be forced to use a website because there are no in-game tools to do it. Period.
Kor of Memory
Member
Oh look, another matchmaking conversation in a destiny thread.
This certainly has never happened before or been discussed to death.
I'm just going to copy paste my last response to this issue:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174577077&postcount=851
This certainly has never happened before or been discussed to death.
I'm just going to copy paste my last response to this issue:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174577077&postcount=851
I'd say the most important function of most clan or guild systems in other online games is a global communication function. Obviously in most PC games the basic form of that is just a global clan-specific text chat channel, which isn't as applicable here. But there definitely could be some other means of clan-focused communication in the game that would further encourage players to seek clans and alliances so they could join these pools of players they'd have a more direct link to contact in-game. Elder Scrolls Online for the consoles for example has a guild-wide voice chat channel that exists separately from the "social" area one similar to what you see in the Tower (though ESO's is opt-out rather than opt-in). Not only do you not have that kind of direct communication access to your clan in-game with Destiny, you can't even see who is in your clan or online at all. There is no indication you are even in a clan in-game other than the modification to your player emblem. They need to find a way to link players in a clan together within the game space to actually give value to using the function in the first place.
Clunker said:
It's not a point I (and I'm guessing thetrin) raise for our own benefit; I've certainly used GAF to do all of my group-based Destiny exploits, and I imagine anyone else that is posting here would probably do the same. It's when you zoom out to the player base at large that this isn't serviceable enough to carry the burden of necessity, which is why this conversation is going to happen forever until Bungie starts to tackle it themselves.
I don't think folks realize how low usage is of things like forums or external websites when it comes to games' player bases. The amount of users that ever make a single post for example on a game's official forums is absolutely tiny relative to the total user base. When you take into account that to even interact with the clan system you have to go to those forums in the first place, it doesn't surprise me that social player exploration feels like a total mystery to the player base at large. In turn compare that to the ability within certain modes to click "Launch" from orbit and have the game match you with two other players within seconds. It is blindingly obvious why there is a constant demand for matchmaking to be implemented more broadly. It's the only player interaction tool available with full-scale visibility that actually works.
Until there is the ability for one player to invite another player to their clan within the game, and in turn have the act of joining that clan enable tools for that player to be able to easily interact with all the other members of that clan in some basic expanded fashion, I don't see the volume of the conversation among the player base getting anything but louder. And if they don't start there, instead choosing to implement some kind of basic LFG system that doesn't encourage actual player interaction beyond individual activities, then the social experience of Destiny is just going to remain tiny little groups orbiting an ever-growing enormous mass of players that feel increasingly disconnected and frustrated.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I guess the idea is that having to go to a third party site to some extent filters out the little kids, super casual players etc. and leads to better groups than you'd get from in game matchmaking?
IDK, I agree in game should be an option. At least some lobby area, allowing some chat in the tower or something to help find people wanting to do the raid. Give party leader an option to boot so bad or AFK players can be kicked out and replaced until you have a good team.
Anyway, I decided to preorder TTK. Hopefully I won't regret it. But it sounds like they fixed a lot of my main gripes with the game and I love the core gameplay. I need to play the two expansion's content more as well. I did the story missions in each, but that's about it. Haven't even done the 2nd raid.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Really well said. The fact of the matter is that Destiny lacks the necessary in-game tools for people to come together in any way aside from matchmaking. People wanting Matchmaking for raids is largely a symptom of this, and until the in-game social functions become much more robust it is going to be keep being a very significant issue regardless of how easy it is for people who actually do use websites to find groups.
And it rightly will continue to occur until Bungie sufficiently rectifies this major oversight in their game.
HiredN00bs
Member
I've put Raid groups together using the Tower.
I played Destiny when it first came up and got to about level 24 I think. A friend just bought a PS4 and is wanting to play Destiny so we are both picking up the combopack. Are we screwed in regards to doing raids and the likes because everyone else is higher level? No one to party with us low level peons?
Post in the GAF Destiny Community thread and you'll find TONS of people who will play with you and regularly organize "newbie runs" for first time raiders and such.
Best Community.
Ramocalypse
Member
100% agreed, it really bugs me the way they talk about getting a group together as being part of the "challenge", at least when it was first announced. They desperately need a social tool ingame similar to an lfg
hollerphonix
Neo Member
I've been out since prior to how and this is almost making me think I need to come back. I'm still a bit undecided as I would like to know more about the story (how much of it here is etc).
The leveling changes are a long time coming and make it easier to understand overall.
The real question is do I need to really play how before I get this (assuming I do)?
What about trials and Poe?
I've never been huge on crucible (although I did play it quite a bit between trophies and iron banner).
Could anyone offer some insight on how as I haven't even so much as touched it even though I have it already?
The leveling changes are a long time coming and make it easier to understand overall.
The real question is do I need to really play how before I get this (assuming I do)?
What about trials and Poe?
I've never been huge on crucible (although I did play it quite a bit between trophies and iron banner).
Could anyone offer some insight on how as I haven't even so much as touched it even though I have it already?
Kor of Memory
Member
Bungie has acknowledged that this is a hot topic for the game. They know how important it is to us.
Discussing it further is just a waste of energy and a distraction for other topics that are worth discussions as well.
robertsan21
Member
I would kill to be able to be part of the Beta testing for this game. Luke or anyone at bungie reading this, hook me up guys! 
No seriously, how would one go about getting into a beta testing for this game?
I notice a lot of "youtube celebs" getting in on beta testing stuff, what about us "non celebs" ?
No seriously, how would one go about getting into a beta testing for this game?
I notice a lot of "youtube celebs" getting in on beta testing stuff, what about us "non celebs" ?
As someone who wants matchmaking in others parts of the game (mainly NF) I agree.
Destiny threads get bogged down to the same conversation over and over again when there's tons of more interesting things to discuss about. We all know the pros and cons of this discussion by heart now. There's better things to talk about.
I know this is all super offtopic but had to respond since Wallach took the time to type out a post:
Having dedicated Clan spaces (mini-Reefs or something) would be immensely helpful, not just for the logistics of setting up games but the actual "sense of community" part that Destiny is really lacking. I remember people being super bummed out about the loot cave being shut down, not so much for the loot as it was for the sense that you could run up to a group in Patrol, know what they were doing, and jump in. Hell, I've even thought that having just separate rooms in the Tower could be helpful (here's a Crota's End setup room to find raiders, a PoE room, etc.). The larger problem is that only 16 people can be in the tower at once - perhaps this is a last-gen thing, and I say this as a PS3 player.
As is, right now the major social interaction with people I don't already voicechat with due to other LFG sites is dancing at the end of a strike.
I'd be curious to see figures on how many people use the voice chat/mic in ESO on console, as I don't know anything about ESO. At least with PC MMOs you have the mandate of a keyboard, so you know everyone has at least some baseline form of communication, but the figures for mic usage on consoles is generally super-low, or at least I've always assumed. I think that's the weird sticking point for Destiny: It's a game trying to be an MMO but with the handicap of a lack of baseline social interaction that is endemic to console gaming in general. Or what's there is the stereotype of the Call of Duty 12-year-old, whether true or not.
I think it's Destiny's MMO-ish flavor (though whether it is or isn't is a whole other debate) that has me questioning how much of the userbase is this type of player. I'd be willing to raise the argument that the style of player who enjoys an MMO enough to stick with it to more complex and eventually endgame content is already a pretty self-selected group that's engaged enough to go beyond casual interactions.
As I write this I'm realizing that FFXIV kind of invalidates this because it's a console MMO with a pretty robust LFG system. I'd love to know what that experience is like, and if mics are common/expected.
Thanks for the detailed response here - as I said, my MMO experience in general is pretty close to nil, and Destiny's the first time I've enjoyed this kind of interaction so I have some heavy blinders on.
Having dedicated Clan spaces (mini-Reefs or something) would be immensely helpful, not just for the logistics of setting up games but the actual "sense of community" part that Destiny is really lacking. I remember people being super bummed out about the loot cave being shut down, not so much for the loot as it was for the sense that you could run up to a group in Patrol, know what they were doing, and jump in. Hell, I've even thought that having just separate rooms in the Tower could be helpful (here's a Crota's End setup room to find raiders, a PoE room, etc.). The larger problem is that only 16 people can be in the tower at once - perhaps this is a last-gen thing, and I say this as a PS3 player.
As is, right now the major social interaction with people I don't already voicechat with due to other LFG sites is dancing at the end of a strike.
I'd be curious to see figures on how many people use the voice chat/mic in ESO on console, as I don't know anything about ESO. At least with PC MMOs you have the mandate of a keyboard, so you know everyone has at least some baseline form of communication, but the figures for mic usage on consoles is generally super-low, or at least I've always assumed. I think that's the weird sticking point for Destiny: It's a game trying to be an MMO but with the handicap of a lack of baseline social interaction that is endemic to console gaming in general. Or what's there is the stereotype of the Call of Duty 12-year-old, whether true or not.
I'm just thinking aloud here, so this isn't an attack or anything, but who exactly is the phantom player who A) plays or is thinking about playing Destiny, B) is finding the lack of matchmaking/LFG for more complex events the dealbreaker, and C) isn't already serious enough about gaming that going to find an external solution isn't a reasonable assumption?Wallach said:
I think it's Destiny's MMO-ish flavor (though whether it is or isn't is a whole other debate) that has me questioning how much of the userbase is this type of player. I'd be willing to raise the argument that the style of player who enjoys an MMO enough to stick with it to more complex and eventually endgame content is already a pretty self-selected group that's engaged enough to go beyond casual interactions.
As I write this I'm realizing that FFXIV kind of invalidates this because it's a console MMO with a pretty robust LFG system. I'd love to know what that experience is like, and if mics are common/expected.
I tend to agree.
I also think it's likely you will potentially be 'locked' into your armor/weapons more than previously because of the light level bonus.
I.e 'I like the perks on x helmet better than y but defense is 350 instead of 400 and the light level bonus is too much for me to give up'
Edit: Basically, I don't trust Bungie to fix the grind until I actually see it in action. They have said the right things many times in the past and not delivered.
All this makes me want to go back and take another look at the game since I haven't really played it since a bit in that first week when I realized the story didn't really get any more in depth than what was in the beta and alpha.
Not sure if I should just wait a few weeks for this and start from scratch or if renting it for a few days and playing around might be worth it.
Not sure if I should just wait a few weeks for this and start from scratch or if renting it for a few days and playing around might be worth it.
Kor of Memory
Member
Do you realize how much more freedom is in this type of "discrimination" though?
I don't think so - the way the new infusion system works, it looks like you'll be able to bring any TTK legendary/exotic equipment up to max attack/defense. Kind of like the Etheric Light system, but now instead of an arbitrary new piece of loot you can only get from specific event, the upgrade cost is any stronger piece of gear.
This looks like it will avoid the problem at launch, when the four very specific pieces of raid gear (all governed by RNG drops that you could only try for once a week) were the only way to get to max level.
It also appears that you can still use an "inferior" weapon (bust out that Gjallarhorn even though it's not at the highest attack level) and still have your Light level only slightly below the max cap due to all your other gear.
Just saw your edit: Don't blame you for waiting! If you feel burned, I'd wait a few weeks and see what people say when they blast through the game ASAP.
I've heard from several sources that 100 percent of your progress and gear will carry over between PS3/PS4 and 360/Xbone. Literally as easy as logging in and seeing it all there.
I might have asked this somewhere, but it would have been months ago, and I've forgotten -- but anyway; I stopped playing Destiny before the first expansion, I was playing a physical copy of the PS3 version, I no longer have that physical copy. I plan on buying the new physical release of the PS4 version of the game (which comes with The Dark Below, House of Wolves, and The Taken King). What will carry over from my PS3 character? Anything? Will I need to go through a process to retrieve that gear/character?
DrROBschiz
Member
Well yeah
I mean instead of a massive 30% performance difference PER light level... you have a system thats way smoother and slighly ambigous
Its not like youd get turned away from having 299 light for a 300 light mission
Im not sure HOW big the difference between various light ranges will be before you start to become too weak for certain missions though
Still lots of unknowns with Light lvl versus performance
I thought they said previously that the class materials will automatically convert to the new singular upgrade mat.
DrROBschiz
Member
Still worth it to
- Collect exotics
- collect materials (for trading to factions/vendors)
- Play for Fun?
Depends on what you mean by "matter."
* If you find an exotic now, you'll be granted the Year 2 version of that stronger exotic weapon later on (unclear if those things will be available right at launch or if you have to be lv 40 or what).
* Ships/shaders/emblems and other such things will carry over and "unlock" in the new kiosks.
* All rep levels with vendors carry over, and I believe existing currencies (vanguard/crucible marks) will be exchanged into special material packages that you can use to boost whatever reps you want in TTK.
I'm still learning how to run the raids a little better, and part of me really wants to believe they'll do some updating to the existing raids in order to inspire players to go back through the "old" raids. Like either a stronger level versions, remixed "Taken" versions or some other gear incentives. I wouldn't be surprised if some quests and bounties involved having to go back through VoG and Crota.
Matchmaking
Want it, but wouldn't need it if Bungie just gave you your Clan list IN GAME. How this game has gone a year without the ability to see online clan members is beyond me.
What is the point of clans except for 2 achievements when you can do literally NOTHING with them in game.
Want it, but wouldn't need it if Bungie just gave you your Clan list IN GAME. How this game has gone a year without the ability to see online clan members is beyond me.
What is the point of clans except for 2 achievements when you can do literally NOTHING with them in game.
Has it been explained how stat rolls are affected by armor items you 'rebuy' from the exotic armor blueprints menu?
If I 'buy' an item I originally had a good stat roll on, what stat roll do I get on the item I 'buy'.
I'm still confused by this menu, I have two of the same armor items currently with different rolls on them (one is half leveled). Which roll is on the item in the blueprints menu?
If I 'buy' an item I originally had a good stat roll on, what stat roll do I get on the item I 'buy'.
I'm still confused by this menu, I have two of the same armor items currently with different rolls on them (one is half leveled). Which roll is on the item in the blueprints menu?
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
It's awful for me as most of my buying is done bulk. When a meta change hits sometimes I need armor with different perks. Now it's going to take longer as I can't spend between vendors with different characters. You can't even buy a weapon and piece of armor for one character without some protracted currency acquisition in between. This is ignoring all of the new systems that now require Legendary Marks. I am reminded of how often Iron Banner weekends turn into; 'Does anyone have the Gatekeeper checkpoint?' You go weeks just burning Glimmer on Heavy Ammo because there is nothing else to buy then all of a sudden there's 10 items to buy that each cost 1/5-1/2 of your Glimmer cap.
The reasoning that this promotes churn is a bit silly. I have not been capped at 200/200 for weeks because I'm too scared to spend my currency. There is nothing to spend my currency on! Now the Cryptarch sells Legendary engrams. The problem solved itself.
I'd like 300 max with a modest price decrease on some items and a modest increase to the cost of Legendary engrams.
In a sea of great changes this stands out as something from the Dark Below school of design.
Seth Enosh
Member
You're missing out on the power of the other classes. Especially with the new subclasses coming I think it will be cool to play as all 3. I have two characters and I don't run the activities 2x a week, so I think the amount of play time you put in doesn't need to correspond to the number of characters you have.