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[Homeboyd]

Oh, right. So in that case, they might as well completely alienate those users right?

Nah, they can still try. I'm confused... what's stopping them from gathering a bunch of people in the tower, or others they've met in explore, or in story missions, or PvP, or their friends lists?

They're not completely alienated. My point was, taken out of context, this content was not created for the person he described in his post.

 

[Nokagi]

It's a comedic video that exaggerates the problems that occur in a Raid when people don't know the strat, don't listen to Raid Leaders, and just play however they want. Which happens often when you're grouped with randoms. In other types of content, people can do that and it may work out. It absolutely will not if this Raid requires the amount of coordination Bungie claims it does..

Just curious but is there anything Bungie could do that that you wouldn't defend? Anything at all? I notice you in every Destiny thread sounding like a PR mouthpiece.

This has been explained to him numerous times. He just simply cannot make the connection because "the video is fake" therefore whatever point it is trying to make should be ignored. I've tried man... he just doesn't get it.

Boy you love exaggerating. The Leroy thing was made to be funny and nothing more. But elitists like yourself bring it up every single time someone mentions matchmaking as if it's proof of something when in fact it's not.

 

[Maebe]

No reasons not to have it. People are going to be recruiting randoms on forums anyway, this just makes it more tedious.

 

[Spades]

Might as well dumb down the difficulty. That'd be helpful, right? /sarcasm

Seriously though, I will be very upset if Bungie caves in and dumbs down raids difficulty because some people found it too hard for them.

Take everyone off your friends list to unlock the secret SUPER DIFFICULTY setting, where you've got to spend hours finding people manually who want to do the raid with you.

 

[Karl Hawk]

Take everyone off your friends list to unlock the secret SUPER DIFFICULTY setting, where you've got to spend hours finding people manually who want to do the raid with you.

I don't know what's your problem with Raids difficulty, honestly.

It wouldn't kill to have a mode that challenges players for their skills, teamwork, coordination, isn't it?

And your starting to act snarky as fuck with the shit. I don't like that.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Welp.

This is bad for me. I don't really have the time and certainly can't plan when I'll have enough free time to play.

This was gonna be more of a "Oh hey, my wife went out with her friend tonight. I've got 4 hours, let's do this thing" not a "Next Wed, I will block off 4 hours to RAID"

The one area per planet was annoying. This might be a deal-breaker for me for the purchase of the game because it basically locks more casual players out of the end-game.

Raids aren't the only Endgame. High level Strikes and Nightfall Missions are also Destiny Endgame and they don't require the same time investment.

Raids aren't content that everyone is supposed to be able to complete when they first come out. It's the highest tier of content available that is typically designed so that only a few people can accomplish it. This makes these players stand out amongst others and makes other players strive to reach that point. Raids and likely some kind of Ranked PvP are going to be how players earn themselves the standout gear. The barrier to entry and completion is what makes those rewards rare and coveted.

As new Endgame content gets added to the game, the older Endgame content becomes easier by nature due to new, more powerful gear coming out. That allows the rest of the playerbase to experience the initial Endgame. That's how Raids are typically designed to work.

 

[Homeboyd]

Boy you love exaggerating. The Leroy thing was made to be funny and nothing more. But elitists like yourself bring it up every single time someone mentions matchmaking as if it's proof of something when in fact it's not.

Nah, not every time. Just this time... in this thread.

And why, do you think, the video is funny? Where do you think they got the idea to make such a funny video? Perhaps making light of irl experiences? I think it's pretty funny too tbh... I'm nowhere near as serious a gamer as probably 95% of GAF so seeing people get riled up about this stuff is often comical to me... same reason that video is funny. But I can easily make the connection with why that video was created and situations that happen in-game b/c of people that enjoy "ruining it for everyone else."

You were the guy calling us embarrassing for even mentioning the video. Who is elitist again?

 

[Principate]

Nah, not every time. Just this time... in this thread.

And why, do you think, the video is funny? Where do you think they got the idea to make such a funny video? Perhaps making light of irl experiences? I think it's pretty funny too tbh... I'm nowhere near as serious a gamer as probably 95% of GAF so seeing people get riled up about this stuff is often comical to me... same reason that video is funny. But I can easily make the connection with why that video was created and situations that happen in-game b/c of people that enjoy "ruining it for everyone else."

You were the guy calling us embarrassing for even mentioning the video. Who is elitist again?

TBF it really a poor argument since it's clearly simulating raids with people you know rather than pugs. If it was simply a pug then video would be fairly different...

 

[PedroLumpy]

Nah, they can still try. I'm confused... what's stopping them from gathering a bunch of people in the tower, or others they've met in explore, or in story missions, or PvP, or their friends lists?

Nothing, but matchmaking would be a more convenient way of accomplishing the same thing.

 

[Jackbooted]

The argument that came up in WoW eventually with all the high-level raid content being developed that "casuals" never got to see can be translated here. Why is Bungie spending a non-trivial amount of time and effort developing these raids for a trivial amount of the population of the game? Do they think that dangling the carrot will entice more people? FPS players (from my experience) are a different breed than traditional RPG players and seem to put up with a lot less bullshit. Blizz was able to start striking a balance by building hard raids for the hard-core but then putting in an LFR and easy-mode raids for the "casuals." I don't see why Bungie can't do the same.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Watch the raid be super easy and I have to eat every word I've said.

So the crux of your argument is that random raid matchmaking will drain talent pool. After you claim everyone who partakes will fail miserably. That makes a ton of sense. Especially when nearly 5 million played the beta.

Ah, so you're one of those hardcore raiding elitist, now it make sense.

No what I said was that raiding talent will be drained from the matchmaking system by the simple fact that most people who are serious about finishing it won't use matchmaking to begin with.

And no I'm not an elitist, I never raided much in my SWTOR days. I can say with confidence though that when I did with randoms, even just to fill a few spots in an otherwise guild filled team, it was awful. One person not following directions and communicating what they are doing can throw off the whole thing. You get a person in a raid who cant or wont communicate and your fucked. But at least on PC MMOs everyone had keyboards and could atleast text chat. Console matchmaking systems are full of people who straight up don't communicate in game chat, whether because they dont have a mic on or they are in party chat. All of those people would be dead weight in a proper raid. Which brings me to my next response...

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. You go to any Destiny forum on any site right now and it's a bunch of people posting their PSN ID or Gamertag to join up with other completely random forum users to play Raids in the future.
No different from MM with randoms outside of being much more of a chore.

Good. That forces people to prove they can and will communicate. Consider it the first challenge of the raid. It weeds out all who never stood a chance (or would just hold back those that do) to begin with.


----


You guys are members of NeoGAF, if anyone has the platform to find a great group of gamers to play with, its you guys. Is it really that hard? Honest question. Do you really need matchmaking? Don't speak for randoms either, I'm asking you, gaffers, specifically. With access to this site, and bungie.net, and wherever else you socialize, wouldn't you prefer to use these channels to find good players instead of clicking a button and hoping against all odds the slot machine spits out 5 good, mic using, sufficiently geared players that just so happen to have the same schedule as you?

 

[frequency]

Raids aren't the only Endgame. High level Strikes and Nightfall Missions are also Destiny Endgame and they don't require the same time investment.

Raids aren't content that everyone is supposed to be able to complete when they first come out. It's the highest tier of content available that is typically designed so that only a few people can accomplish it. This makes these players stand out amongst others and makes other players strive to reach that point. Raids and likely some kind of Ranked PvP are going to be how players earn themselves the standout gear. The barrier to entry and completion is what makes those rewards rare and coveted.

As new Endgame content gets added to the game, the older Endgame content becomes easier by nature due to new, more powerful gear coming out. That allows the rest of the playerbase to experience the initial Endgame. That's how Raids are typically designed to work.

Raids are an important part of the end game and a part of the $60 ($70 if you're Canadian) price tag but you're locked out of it because you're not a Scarab Lord approved player.

So it's perfectly fine for people to consider this bad and be unhappy about it and to express that dissatisfaction. They pay the same as you do but get less content than you do.

The other content may still be enough value for people but Bungie really needs to open up and talk in detail about what all the other content is. What I got from the article/video is if you're not raiding, you can do (what is essentially) daily quests to grind vendor currency. That's not really all too exciting for many people.

 

[realcZk]

I don't know what's your problem with Raids difficulty, honestly.

It wouldn't kill to have a mode that challenges players for their skills, teamwork, coordination, isn't it?

And your starting to act snarky as fuck with the shit. I don't like that.

I think he was poking fun at the fact that the social system in Destiny is pretty poor (no voice chat unless you're in a fireteam), so if you wanted to find randoms in-game to do a raid with you it's pretty much impossible without people on your friends list.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Just curious but is there anything Bungie could do that that you wouldn't defend? Anything at all? I notice you in every Destiny thread sounding like a PR mouthpiece.

I've already said multiple times that the real issue that this news presents is that it's far too difficult to get a group together. But it's awesome that because I'm not cynical about every piece of info that gets released about Destiny, you feel justified in calling me a shill.

Boy you love exaggerating. The Leroy thing was made to be funny and nothing more. But elitists like yourself bring it up every single time someone mentions matchmaking as if it's proof of something when in fact it's not.

I find this funny, since you use exaggeration directed at me in the same post. The Leroy video is satirical. That's why it spread like wildfire through the WoW community and onwards. It's very clearly an exaggeration of the common situation of having that one guy in the raid group that just doesn't pay attention and somehow screws it up for everyone else.

 

[Homeboyd]

Nothing, but matchmaking would be a more convenient way of accomplishing the same thing.

I think that's the point though. Yes, you can gather these random people on your own and play raids (i.e. you're not locked out). But, we've designed these in a way we believe only strong communication and coordination will get the job done and, in our opinion, that requires you to team up with people you know and trust, who have mics and will communicate, have been proven to be team players, etc...

But you're not being completely prevented from attempting it by gathering up your own random team.

 

[Spades]

I don't know what's your problem with Raids difficulty, honestly.

I don't have a single problem with the raid difficulty. I have a problem with it being restricted to friends only for the reasons I stated a few posts back.

 

[Ramocalypse]

people are also treating this as if its 1-1 with WoW. The chances of a 6-person PUG coordinating in a FPS is not as unlikely as I believe Bungie thinks it is.

Also, I dont get people acting like the "Challenge" of finding people to play with is anything more than a chore, like it is rewarding in some way.

 

[Karl Hawk]

I don't have a single problem with the raid difficulty. I have a problem with it being restricted to friends only for the reasons I stated a few posts back.

Well, my bad. Haven't slept since yesterday. >_<

 

[Homeboyd]

TBF it really a poor argument since it's clearly simulating raids with people you know rather than pugs. If it was simply a pug then video would be fairly different...

Correct. Though the likelihood of getting an ass-clown like that on your team is multiplied exponentially when teaming up via MM vs people you know. Yeah, someone I've played games with for years could spaz the fuck out and ruin the raid.. it's just much less likely than some randy rando on the internet.

 

[Primethius]

I think the option should be there for public matchmaking, but my opinion is based of off what I played in the alpha/beta in terms of the strike. I didn't see anything in the game (strike or campaign mission wise) that required so much coordination as to justify limiting play to only friends and its hard for me to imagine, given what I played in the alpha/beta, that Bungie has these amazing raids that require so much coordination as to completely disallow public matchmaking and justify only friend play.

I guess I'll be a believer as to the difficulty/coordination required when I see it, cause nothing so far has shown anything remotely close to what Bungie's justification for the lack of options is.

 

[Sevyne]

With access to this site, and bungie.net, and wherever else you socialize, wouldn't you prefer to use these channels to find good players instead of clicking a button and hoping against all odds the slot machine spits out 5 good, mic using, sufficiently geared players that just so happen to have the same schedule as you?

I'd rather the clan functions serve more of a purpose within the game than simply being window dressing for your Emblem/Name Card. The social elements should exist within the game that they are trying to pass off as a social game, not only outside of it. For all of the arguments I see about why matchmaking is bad because of how it is in MMOs, they all seem to leave out the part that those MMOs also had all of the proper social tools to organize with guild/clanmates/friends within game. Destiny does not have that. Destiny has no tools for the casuals and it has no tools for the hardcore, so what does it have? Forums? Well that's rather laughable in a game releasing in 2014. Of course people are going to lean back on wanting matchmaking in. It's the more realistic option, because Bungie isn't going to suddenly revamp the entire social aspect (or lack thereof) of the entire game. Enabling matchmaking is just a faster and easier option, because they already have a system in the game for it. It's not the most elegant solution, but it's the most realistic.

 

[BokehKing]

Boy you love exaggerating. The Leroy thing was made to be funny and nothing more. But elitists like yourself bring it up every single time someone mentions matchmaking as if it's proof of something when in fact it's not.

Even if LeRoy Jenkins was fake, that doesn't mean there are not people who do not jump the gun. . We don't know yet if we will be able to only pull certain mobs at a time, but you can't have people pulling the whole room.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Welp.

This is bad for me. I don't really have the time and certainly can't plan when I'll have enough free time to play.

This was gonna be more of a "Oh hey, my wife went out with her friend tonight. I've got 4 hours, let's do this thing" not a "Next Wed, I will block off 4 hours to RAID"

The one area per planet was annoying. This might be a deal-breaker for me for the purchase of the game because it basically locks more casual players out of the end-game.

You and me both. Bungie's taking some odd design choice with Destiny.

 

[nel e nel]

I totally get the no matchmaking decision, and I think it's great to encourage the type of coordinated teamwork that these raids will require, buuuut:

I'm not a Raidlord.

I often play off-hours from the rest of my friends.

The friends I do play with regularly, we rarely connect because I have a 1 year old, another is in a different time zone, and the 3rd keeps crazy vampire hours.

When I am online with my friends, I don't always want to dedicate a 2-3 hour block of time.

Matchmaking would be a nice option for folks like me.

 

[KillerDark]

Raids aren't content that everyone is supposed to be able to complete when they first come out. It's the highest tier of content available that is typically designed so that only a few people can accomplish it.

You say that like its still good design... it isn't.

 

[electricpirate]

I think people are mis-identifying the problem here. It's not a switch that gets turned on or off for Matchmaking or not matchmaking.

It's that Bungie is building content that will only be available to 6 people working in tight co-operation. I mean, that's kind of nuts right? No games outside of the MMO space are doing experiences that absolutely require co-ordination in a co-op space. Especially no action games (Monaco comes close, but it's more of a loose goofy experience). The reason that feature is intensely exciting is the same reason I'll probably never play it.

Matchmaking or not, I'll probably never be able to experience that content because I won't have that crew. Turning on Matchmaking means I'll get to the door, and not much farther. It's probably useful to come to grips with the core issuse (Content designed for extemely high co-operation levels) rather than a symptom of that (matchmaking only for friends groups).

If the major raid is successful, I'd love to see some content that approaches 3 player co-operative in a similar way. Lowering the organization challenge in this way could lower the organizational barrier while maintaining the challenge barrier.

 

[Nokagi]

I find this funny, since you use exaggeration directed at me in the same post.

That was far from exaggeration. I've seen you doing the same thing in the Guild Wars 2 threads. Nothing is ever bad. It's always perfect and everyone else is just wrong.

Even if LeRoy Jenkins was fake, that doesn't mean there are not people who do not jump the gun. . We don't know yet if we will be able to only pull certain mobs at a time, but you can't have people pulling the whole room.

And do you believe that should be reason to exclude the matchmaking feature? Because some guy someday might do something stupid?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Raids are an important part of the end game and a part of the $60 ($70 if you're Canadian) price tag but you're locked out of it because you're not a Scarab Lord approved player.

So it's perfectly fine for people to consider this bad and be unhappy about it and to express that dissatisfaction. They pay the same as you do but get less content than you do.

The other content may still be enough value for people but Bungie really needs to open up and talk in detail about what all the other content is. What I got from the article/video is if you're not raiding, you can do (what is essentially) daily quests to grind vendor currency. That's not really all too exciting for many people.

Well firstly, there's no telling as to whether I'd even be able to do these Raids myself. I could very well be in the group that doesn't end up getting geared well enough or can't complete the Raid. However I understand that not everyone will be able to complete it because it's that kind of activity.

What I find interesting is that Luke did talk about High Level Strikes and Nightfall Missions but because those aren't Raids, everyone is acting as if those won't take a significant time investment themselves or that they won't be rewarding. Luke specifically said that Nightfall Missions have "extremely exotic rewards" and that they offer the most powerful arcane gear in the game. And that's outside of Raids. It's also worth it to note that if grinding those other activities isn't interesting, I don't see why Raids would be any better because Raiding is grinding just the same. It's just a harder activity that requires more players and more coordination, but players will still be grinding it out week in and week out to clear it and get the gear they want from it.

 

[Xamtheking]

You say that like its still good design... it isn't.

So that's why World Of Warcraft shut down 5 years ago
Oh wait....
In all seriousness, shitloads of games do this and they do well

 

[KillerDark]

So that's why World Of Warcraft shut down 5 years ago
Oh wait....
In all seriousness, shitloads of games do this and they do well

More like that's why WoW added LFR, so most people can see the content. Also a pretty bad comparison to MMO's because they actually have a social aspect and you can communicate in game. Destiny is sorely lacking on that front.

 

[Spades]

So that's why World Of Warcraft shut down 5 years ago
Oh wait....
In all seriousness, shitloads of games do this and they do well

Comparing a PC game where you can type/shout to other players to form raid parties, to a game where you can't communicate to anyone unless you're in a Fireteam.

 

[Xamtheking]

Comparing a PC game where you can type/shout to other players to form raid parties, to a game where you can't communicate to anyone unless you're in a Fireteam.

More like that's why WoW added LFR, so most people can see the content. Also a pretty bad comparison to MMO's because they actually have a social aspect and you can communicate in game. Destiny is sorely lacking on that front.

I've said earlier in this thread
Bungie needs to upgrade communication big-time

 

[Jest Chillin]

You say that like its still good design... it isn't.

Why isn't it exactly? Because it highlights some players over others? How is that any different from Competitive PvP? Not everyone can be a top player in every game. I'm okay with a game designing content that pushes those players.

That was far from exaggeration. I've seen you doing the same thing in the Guild Wars 2 threads. Nothing is ever bad. It's always perfect and everyone else is just wrong.

Perhaps it was the fact that my old avatar looked a lot like some of the other members of GW2 Gaf but I'm definitely not one of the members who is in all the threads singing the praise of GW2. I like the game and didn't and don't see any glaring flaws with it but that's true of pretty much anyone that likes any game. But this accusation that I was going around all the GW2 threads shouting other people down is patently false. It's cute though that you edited my post down so that your quoting of me leaves out the problem that I do see with Destiny at the moment given this news. But I guess that doesn't help support your accusations now does it?

 

[Ramocalypse]

People are also acting like mm will lead to 100% random groups. What if you have 3 or 4 friends together and just need a 1 or 2 more players? Honestly you would probably end up with a combination of 2 premades more than anything.

 

[KillerDark]

Why isn't it exactly? Because it highlights some players over others? How is that any different from Competitive PvP? Not everyone can be a top player in every game. I'm okay with a game designing content that pushes those players.

I'm ok with that as well, but making content that most people won't be able to participate in is a bad decision. They should just take the WoW approach, have matchmaking for the raid on a lower difficulty and then have a harder difficulty for more organized groups that will drop better gear. If they don't want matchmaking then they definitely need ways in game to find people to do the raids, that's a huge issue with this plan right now.

 

[Dirtbag]

You say that like its still good design... it isn't.

I'm stoked that there is a game out there embracing 'the challenge'
Games have gotten WAY too easy. Yes its a risk, they openly admit that, but I for one am looking forward to something being difficult. Nut up

 

[Static Jak]

You and me both. Bungie's taking some odd design choice with Destiny.

Bungie has taken some odd choices in their previous games too.

One I remember was how they treated people who disconnected from a match before it finished in Halo Reach. Did it enough times and they would straight up ban you from Multiplayer for a short amount of time.

That was met with a lot of backlash too and it pretty much failed from preventing quitters while punishing those who got randomly disconnected or quit a match because the majority of their team already left.

 

[Xamtheking]

I'm ok with that as well, but making content that most people won't be able to participate in is a bad decision. They should just take the WoW approach, have matchmaking for the raid on a lower difficulty and then have a harder difficulty for more organized groups that will drop better gear. If they don't want matchmaking then they definitely need ways in game to find people to do the raids, that's a huge issue with this plan right now.

You want hard stuff with MM?
Nightfall Missions/High Level Strikes
Done

 

[KillerDark]

I'm stoked that there is a game out there embracing 'the challenge'
Games have gotten WAY too easy. Yes its a risk, they openly admit that, but I for one am looking forward to something being difficult. Nut up

Difficulty doesn't scare me haha. I've raided in plenty of games before for a long time, I know what its like. I'll probably be raiding in Destiny with a combination of friends/DestinyGAF. I just think its a really poor decision to design content that most people won't be able to see since there is basically no social aspect in game.

 

[Pastry]

I'm stoked that there is a game out there embracing 'the challenge'
Games have gotten WAY too easy. Yes its a risk, they openly admit that, but I for one am looking forward to something being difficult. Nut up

All this is doing is making it challenging to form a group to actually play the difficult content.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I'm ok with that as well, but making content that most people won't be able to participate in is a bad decision. If they don't want matchmaking then they definitely need ways in game to find people to do the raids.

I agree that they need better ways for people to form groups and I've said so multiple times in this thread. I think that's the issue that genuinely needs addressing. I don't feel like matchmaking is the appropriate solution to that. It's quick and easy for the players, sure. But it doesn't solve the problems that can come with partying with random players, it actually exacerbates them.

Destiny needs better ways to communicate and group in-game. That will help foster a community where players get to know each other and hopefully treat each other as valuable members and acquaintences. Matchmaking makes every party member disposable because it's easy to just kick them and wait for the next guy or to drop group and queue again.

 

[ultron87]

If the major raid is successful, I'd love to see some content that approaches 3 player co-operative in a similar way. Lowering the organization challenge in this way could lower the organizational barrier while maintaining the challenge barrier.

If none of the high level strikes approach the coordination required with the raids we are dealing with a rather poorly designed progression. It really shouldn't go from strikes that anyone can stumble through to raids that instantly chop your legs off if everyone doesn't jump at the exact same time. The strikes should prepare you for what is required in the raids. The fact that Bungie thinks we'll be totally fine with strikes in matchmaking while the raids are apparently totally impossible and frustrating for randoms makes me quite worried for the overall difficulty curve of the end game content.

 

[Jackbooted]

People are also acting like mm will lead to 100% random groups. What if you have 3 or 4 friends together and just need a 1 or 2 more players? Honestly you would probably end up with a combination of 2 premades more than anything.

This is a very good point that does seem to be getting overlooked. I game with 3-4 other people fairly regularly and we'd like to do raids so being able to fill out the group via a match making system would be awesome.

 

[KillerDark]

People are also acting like mm will lead to 100% random groups. What if you have 3 or 4 friends together and just need a 1 or 2 more players? Honestly you would probably end up with a combination of 2 premades more than anything.

Agreed, this is probably going to be the situation with my group of friends. Getting everyone on at the same time is going to be rare, so its very likely we will have 4 or so people and need to fill a couple spots. I'm sure we will just turn to Destiny GAF and pick up a couple people... but a lot of people in this situation are just going to be out of luck which is bad design.

 

[Dirtbag]

All this is doing is making it challenging to form a group to actually play the difficult content.

Or they fear that the experience will be forever ruined if people try and MM it given the level of commitment. They are in a way pioneering this space on consoles/shooters. So I can understand doing, what they think they have to do, to preserve the experience.

 

[Jest Chillin]

If none of the high level strikes approach the coordination required with the raids we are dealing with a rather poorly designed progression. It really shouldn't go from strikes that anyone can stumble through to raids that instantly chop your legs off if everyone doesn't jump at the exact same time. The strikes should prepare you for what is required in the raids. The fact that Bungie thinks we'll be totally fine with strikes in matchmaking while the raids are apparently totally impossible and frustrating for randoms makes me quite worried for the overall difficulty curve of the end game content.

Nightfall Missions are what you're looking for. There are daily and weekly versions and they'll have modifiers that adjust the difficulty and may require new tactics, gear adjustments and even build adjustments.

 

[frequency]

Well firstly, there's no telling as to whether I'd even be able to do these Raids myself. I could very well be in the group that doesn't end up getting geared well enough or can't complete the Raid. However I understand that not everyone will be able to complete it because it's that kind of activity.

What I find interesting is that Luke did talk about High Level Strikes and Nightfall Missions but because those aren't Raids, everyone is acting as if those won't take a significant time investment themselves or that they won't be rewarding. Luke specifically said that Nightfall Missions have "extremely exotic rewards" and that they offer the most powerful arcane gear in the game. And that's outside of Raids. It's also worth it to note that if grinding those other activities isn't interesting, I don't see why Raids would be any better because Raiding is grinding just the same. It's just a harder activity that requires more players and more coordination, but players will still be grinding it out week in and week out to clear it and get the gear they want from it.

It's because of MMORPGs. I was pretty adamant about not treating Destiny like a MMORPG (like I made some comments in the "only one area per planet" thread) until Mr. Scarab Lord came out with this interview showing me that Bungie actually considers Destiny a MMORPG.

Raids always get the most exciting and interesting mechanics. Everything else kind of exists just to prepare you for the raids. A large part of development time goes towards the raids. It's comparing the daily grinding and 5 person dungeons in WoW to Siege of Orgrimmar. It's totally different and SoO is infinitely more exciting and interesting as a grind than the other PVE offerings at 90.

Based on Mr. Scarab Lord's history and the interview and looking at other games with raids, I would have to believe that Destiny falls in line with MMORPG raid-based content design.

Which is why I said my last paragraph in the post you quoted. I think Bungie really needs to come out to show what else they have on offer other than vendor currency grinds.

 

[ultron87]

Nightfall Missions are what you're looking for. There are daily and weekly versions and they'll have modifiers that adjust the difficulty and may require new tactics, gear adjustments and even build adjustments.

Why can randoms be trusted to do those with Matchmaking? Someone might have a bad time.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Why can randoms be trusted to do those with Matchmaking? Someone might have a bad time.

Perhaps those are targeted at the general populace and raids are targeted at gamers that like to join guilds and play things with extreme difficulty. It really isn't that hard to understand when you let go of the outrage. Everything in the game isn't meant for everyone. The game hopes to have something for everyone.

 

[oldnick]

This topic feels like the WoW LFR rage all over again, except in reverse: funny ;p