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[diffusionx]

What is this "life in danger" stuff? Yes, people who have been outed as transgender have been attacked before, but people who have been outed as transgender have also NOT been attacked.

If you want to raise public money for something, you need to be honest, because there will be scrutiny applied. If your story is BS and doesn't hold up, expect to get called out. That simple.

 

[AkuMifune]

What everyone did, and is doing and this whole thing is gross.

But reading NeoGAF does not constitute investigative journalism. Did he visit her doctor? Did he interview her psychologist? Did he go undercover in the trans community to expose some malicious corruption? No. He called out someone with severe emotional issues on pretty obvious conjecture from forum posts. It should probably have been done, but not like this. And stop pretending this is like Woodward and Bernstein or something.

 

[Lambtron]

According to other people in this thread, it was already known that she was trans. He didn't out her, all he did was say that the money was for SRS.

CSi Reddit had speculated that she was. She'd never said anything. Judging by the reactions to this after the fact I'm not fucking surprised she wasn't sharing that information.

What do you mean by this? Are there active trans-hate groups in whatever country she is located?

Does she live on planet earth? There's are active trans-hate groups then.

 

[Delusibeta]

Neither of which are justifications for outing her as a trans person.

I would question if there would be a functional difference if he didn't out her: "she is transsexual and was attempting to raise money for sexual reassignment surgery under false pretenses" had become oft-repeated and generally assumed true internet lore pretty shortly after the IGG went underway. Doesn't excuse *how* the journo in question went about outing her, but accusations of transsexuality (and attempting to scam people) would pretty much be guaranteed every time she gained attention for the foreseeable future. The internet never forgets, y'know (or, more accurately, someone will remember and remind people).

 

[The Faceless Master]

i thought people said Destructoid was one of the good ones. nope! no such thing as games journalism.

 

[Kinyou]

Neither of which are justifications for outing her as a trans person.

Was there a way to reveal the true purpose of the crowdfunding project without outing her?

 

[Ravensmash]

Neither of which are justifications for outing her as a trans person.

Well, that's not entirely true...

The whole basis of the fundraising was to obtain money relating to her being a trans person, and she attempted to obtain that money under false pretences which would likely never be revealed.

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but haven't numerous public figures been outed due to scandals? If something is newsworthy enough to warrant public knowledge, then hiding the actual story would be doing a disservice, no?

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Trans people are far more likely to be assaulted or murdered, yes. This isn't really a matter of conjecture appropriate for this thread.

If we're going to be throwing around the simplistic notion that her life is now in a much greater danger than it was before these tweets, then yes, it's absolutely relevant, though probably not enjoyable. This is a heavy topic and requires a lot of questions.

If there was an actual definable risk tied to being outed, then why did she even do this entire campaign in the first place? Seems ridiculously risky if there's actual danger.

 

[Sophia]

What do you mean by this? Are there active trans-hate groups in whatever country she is located?

There was a list linked earlier in this thread. There's also a few sites dedicated to those who were murdered simply because they were trans. At least one trans person is mrudered every three days too. (Source)

Nobody's defending her scam, but outing her in real life was the worst possible action to come of this.

According to other people in this thread, it was already known that she was trans. He didn't out her, all he did was say that the money was for SRS.

To my understanding, she was only known online. It wasn't known information in real life.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

This story is fucking depressing. I wish them luck.

 

[Alec]

i thought people said Destructoid was one of the good ones. nope! no such thing as games journalism.

You can believe in Jim Sterling.

 

[mollipen]

Don't have time to read the full thread, but wanted to quickly give my thoughts.

The information may have been relevant to the story, but it was completely irresponsible for him to include that information. This isn't hard-hitting journalism that will affect the world - this is video games. He either could have written the story without revealing that key piece of information, or he could have not done the story at all.

Outing somebody is a HUGE deal, especially when they're trans - a segment of society who still struggles with acceptance - and he showed no appreciation for what it means to out her. It should be her right to reveal that information, and hers alone.

Chloe screwed up. That's not in question. But her screwing up didn't deserve this outcome. Anybody who thinks they deserved to know this is simple wrong in that assumption.

 

[Jburton]

Was there a way to reveal the true purpose of the crowdfunding project without outing her?

Exactly ..... It's not like he had any other reason to "out" her ......... It is not like it was some sort of transsexual witch hunt, it was a fact in this altogether unfortunate story.

 

[ArchedThunder]

There was a list linked earlier in this thread. There's also a few sites dedicated to those who were murdered simply because they were trans. At least one trans person is mrudered every three days too. (Source)

Nobody's defending her scam, but outing her in real life was the worst possible action to come of this.

It was the central part of the story. It was the core of the whole thing and people deserved to know.

Don't have time to read the full thread, but wanted to quickly give my thoughts.

The information may have been relevant to the story, but it was completely irresponsible for him to include that information. This isn't hard-hitting journalism that will affect the world - this is video games. He either could have written the story without revealing that key piece of information, or he could have not done the story at all.

Outing somebody is a HUGE deal, especially when they're trans - a segment of society who still struggles with acceptance - and he showed no appreciation for what it means to out her. It should be her right to reveal that information, and hers alone.

There is no "story" with out that key piece of information. Also it isn't just "video games" when some one is lying about their well being saying they will die if they don't have a surgery and then ask for the money to afford said surgery.

 

[Jacobbles]

Destructoid stood behind Jim Sterling and some of his more outrageous phrasings and continually refused to fire him (and good on em for doing so), but Alistar wouldn't get that kind of protection...why? I'm not entirely sure.

Why would Dtoid ever fire Sterling? He brings in most of their readers.

 

[Hrothgar]

CSi Reddit had speculated that she was. She'd never said anything. Judging by the reactions to this after the fact I'm not fucking surprised she wasn't sharing that information.


Does she live on planet earth? There's are active trans-hate groups then.

Which reactions? I have not seen anyone on GAF call her out on being some sort of monster for being transgendered. The outrage seems to be purely aimed at the fact that she scammed people for money to get a SRS under false pretenses.

 

[Juken]

I'm still ignorant of some of the finer details of this story, but I feel right now that if you don't want to be outed as trans you shouldn't run scams relating to it.

 

[Macho Madness]

It was the central part of the story. It was the core of the whole thing and people deserved to know.

No they really didn't. The whole thing had already been stopped.

 

[Spongebob]

Don't have time to read the full thread, but wanted to quickly give my thoughts.

The information may have been relevant to the story, but it was completely irresponsible for him to include that information. This isn't hard-hitting journalism that will affect the world - this is video games. He either could have written the story without revealing that key piece of information, or he could have not done the story at all.

Outing somebody is a HUGE deal, especially when they're trans - a segment of society who still struggles with acceptance - and he showed no appreciation for what it means to out her. It should be her right to reveal that information, and hers alone.

She had already been outed.

 

[Vanillalite]

If it was fraud and blackmail why not actively go to the police with this info and then let them handle it all?

Shitty situation all around.

 

[Jacobbles]

I'm still ignorant of some of the finer details of this story, but I feel right now that if you don't want to be outed as trans you shouldn't run scams relating to it.

I too am ignorant to some of the finer details, but this seems like a pretty solid point.

 

[Omikaru]

Reporting on the scam is journalism, and Chloe should be rightly criticised for it.

Outing her as trans is gossip, and there was no need to reveal it.

Only one is necessary for this story; we don't need to know what she planned to spend the money on, just that the reason she stated was a deception. It should've been Chloe's decision entirely to reveal the true reason for wanting the cash, and Pinsof should be fired for outing her, especially since the publication he was working for told him not to.

 

[Akira_83]

There was a list linked earlier in this thread. There's also a few sites dedicated to those who were murdered simply because they were trans. At least one trans person is mrudered every three days too. (Source)

Nobody's defending her scam, but outing her in real life was the worst possible action to come of this.



To my understanding, she was only known online. It wasn't known information in real life.

so what? theres hate groups for all walks of life, not just transgendered. Dont they always say they want equal treatment? but when it comes to privacy they deserve more than a non-trans person?

why?

if i had done a scam like this they would leak whatever they can and people would find out i have children and where i live and i would get threats to

trans gender deserves no special treatment

 

[Lambtron]

Which reactions? I have not seen anyone on GAF call her out on being some sort of monster for being transgendered. The outrage seems to be purely aimed at the fact that she scammed people for money to get a SRS under false pretenses.

People not thinking it's a big deal that she was outed. People not thinking there's a risk for her by being outed.

It's never anyone's place to out someone.

so what? theres hate groups for all walks of life, not just transgendered. Dont they always say they want equal treatment? but when it comes to privacy they deserve more than a non-trans person?

why?

if i had done a scam like this they would leak whatever they can and people would find out i have children and where i live and i would get threats to

trans gender deserves no special treatment

Jesus fucking christ. Did you read the wiki link posted earlier? Life is fucking awful for trans* people. I'm sure if you scammed people they'd be upset, but I doubt you'd be killed over it. What she did does not deserve the outrage it has received. There would've been a significant risk for her if she was upfront about it. Significant. Even people in other marginalized groups are really shitty towards trans* rights.

 

[Sophia]

Don't have time to read the full thread, but wanted to quickly give my thoughts.

The information may have been relevant to the story, but it was completely irresponsible for him to include that information. This isn't hard-hitting journalism that will affect the world - this is video games. He either could have written the story without revealing that key piece of information, or he could have not done the story at all.

Outing somebody is a HUGE deal, especially when they're trans - a segment of society who still struggles with acceptance - and he showed no appreciation for what it means to out her. It should be her right to reveal that information, and hers alone.

Chloe screwed up. That's not in question. But her screwing up didn't deserve this outcome. Anybody who thinks they deserved to know this is simple wrong in that assumption.

I'm glad someone understands how big of a deal it is to be outed.

so what? theres hate groups for all walks of life, not just transgendered. Dont they always say they want equal treatment? but when it comes to privacy they deserve more than a non-trans person?

why?

if i had done a scam like this they would leak whatever they can and people would find out i have children and where i live and i would get threats to

trans gender deserves no special treatment

Would you like it if you committed a Misdemeanor or felony and something that could get you killed was outed to the world?

You're tossing around the term "special treatment" very casually and might want to reconsider how you're using it.

 

[ghst]

by the time the article came out, the nature of the situation became apparent to anyone willing to pay attention. chloe talked extensively regarding the life saving prospects of gender reassignment surgery within the discussions of her campaign, while only at the very outset referring to metal poisoning as the cause. referring instead to her life threatening condition in only the most nebulous terms.

given how the situation appeared, and the aggressive mauling which anyone entertaining these factors was subjected to, it did appear to become almost farcical. like a crowd-funded super-injunction against something which sadly became in the public interest as soon as people were asked to donate money.

sticking rigidly to journalistic codes and practices is no doubt going to but you in some extremely morally difficult situations which will make you very unpopular. but then, destructoid isn't exactly the BBC.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

i thought people said Destructoid was one of the good ones. nope! no such thing as games journalism.

Since when...?

Jim Sterling's Reborn Journalist sketch is pretty recent...

 

[ArchedThunder]

Reporting on the scam is journalism, and Chloe should be rightly criticised for it.

Outing her as trans is gossip, and there was no need to reveal it.

Only one is necessary for this story; we don't need to know what she planned to spend the money on, just that the reason she stated was a deception. It should've been Chloe's decision entirely to reveal the true reason for wanting the cash, and Pinsof should be fired for outing her.

It isn't gossip when it is the core of the story.

 

[BronsonLee]

trans gender deserves no special treatment

Wat

Not outing someone as trans is special treatment now?

 

[Ravensmash]

Reporting on the scam is journalism, and Chloe should be rightly criticised for it.

Outing her as trans is gossip, and there was no need to reveal it.

Only one is necessary for this story; we don't need to know what she planned to spend the money on, just that the reason she stated was a deception. It should've been Chloe's decision entirely to reveal the true reason for wanting the cash, and Pinsof should be fired for outing her.

"That crowdfunding campaign you're donating too...it's a scam, can't say why though!"

All that would result in is more speculation, it would be half the story. The fact that she was outed was a mere consequence of its relation to the story as a whole.

 

[Askherserenity]

So the people saying that it was just the manner in which he outed her out...how did he do it? Was he saying anything derogatory? Really don't see how he is at fault here unless he was being an asshole about it. But it seems like he was actually trying to help her?

 

[dave is ok]

GAF's preferred headline would have been "IndieGoGo Campaign Funds Being Misappropriated, Life Threatening Metal Poisoning a Lie, Can't Tell You Anything Else, Sorry"

 

[Hrothgar]

No they really didn't. The whole thing had already been stopped.

Not really:

I think he chose to out the scam because a lot of independent game developers were going to donate their game sales for a period of time, not to mention all the other people who might have donated.

 

[AkuMifune]

Why would Dtoid ever fire Sterling? He brings in most of their readers.

Why would gamespot ever get rid of Gerstmann?

Follow people, not sites.

 

[Delusibeta]

Only one is necessary for this story; we don't need to know what she planned to spend the money on, just that the reason she stated was a deception. It should've been Chloe's decision entirely to reveal the true reason for wanting the cash, and Pinsof should be fired for outing her.

Eh, there were plenty of people with the assumption that it was for SRS, I would imagine that in the absence of confirmation that would become the general assumption. Again, I'm not entirely sure where the practical difference is.

 

[Selkies!]

This whole thing is a mess. I have no idea how I would react if I was in the same situation as any of the involved parties, Destructiod management included. NeoGAF tell me what to feel.

 

[Sblargh]

Wat

Not outing someone as trans is special treatment now?

Don't even try to understand, it's probably something like "Black people have hate groups too and we out them" or something that is only making sense in his angry mind.

 

[prwxv3]

Did he out her before the suicide broadcast? From reading this, it looks like he mentioned the details afterward.

It was after. He said he kept the info secret because she was threatening to kill herself if he let the info out. And since she tried to kill herself anyway he decided to tell everyone.

 

[mollipen]

She had already been outed.

That was not my understanding of the situation, but to be fair, I've been picking this story up in pieces during the week due to being at pre-E3 events. So, to be fair, I'm going on what information I understood as of this point, and am going to try to catch up on the full details later today.

Even if somebody else somewhere had outed her, that doesn't make it okay for somebody else to. It is Chloe's decision as to if people know she is trans or not, and if that is a detail that she doesn't want to be brought up, that should be respected.

 

[Omikaru]

"That crowdfunding campaign you're donating too...it's a scam, can't say why though!"

All that would result in is more speculation, it would be half the story. The fact that she was outed was a mere consequence of its relation to the story as a whole.

Doesn't matter if it resulted in more speculation. It's still her right to explain why she did it, especially given the circumstances.

All that needed to be said is that Chloe isn't going to die from the embedded metal or whatever it was, because she lied about the IndieGoGo. You don't need to say that it was a cover up to pay for SRS. At that point, most people will just assume greed and be outraged at being lied to. It is then up to Chloe about whether she says the true motive and outs herself, or not.

 

[Jac_Solar]

CSi Reddit had speculated that she was. She'd never said anything. Judging by the reactions to this after the fact I'm not fucking surprised she wasn't sharing that information.


Does she live on planet earth? There's are active trans-hate groups then.

The way it was said made it sound as if there are groups hunting, or actively looking for trans people.

There was a list linked earlier in this thread. There's also a few sites dedicated to those who were murdered simply because they were trans. At least one trans person is mrudered every three days too. (Source)

I'm somewhat familiar with what a trans is, but that's it. I'm not very well informed on the subject.

 

[Ravensmash]

Don't have time to read the full thread, but wanted to quickly give my thoughts.

The information may have been relevant to the story, but it was completely irresponsible for him to include that information. This isn't hard-hitting journalism that will affect the world - this is video games. He either could have written the story without revealing that key piece of information, or he could have not done the story at all.

Outing somebody is a HUGE deal, especially when they're trans - a segment of society who still struggles with acceptance - and he showed no appreciation for what it means to out her. It should be her right to reveal that information, and hers alone.

Chloe screwed up. That's not in question. But her screwing up didn't deserve this outcome. Anybody who thinks they deserved to know this is simple wrong in that assumption.

How else would a journalist fully report on a story like this without including the core of the story though?

And while the story was about video games, it was also about people's hard earned money being donated under false pretences.

 

[baphomet]

Just one more reason to never visit Destructoid again. He was in the right for telling the truth about the thief, and they're going to let him go because of it.

Fuck Destructoid.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Don't have time to read the full thread, but wanted to quickly give my thoughts.

The information may have been relevant to the story, but it was completely irresponsible for him to include that information. This isn't hard-hitting journalism that will affect the world - this is video games. He either could have written the story without revealing that key piece of information, or he could have not done the story at all.

Outing somebody is a HUGE deal, especially when they're trans - a segment of society
who still struggles with acceptance - and he showed no appreciation for what it means to out her. It should be her right to reveal that information, and hers alone.

Chloe screwed up. That's not in question.
But her screwing up didn't deserve this outcome. Anybody who thinks they
deserved to know this is simple wrong in that assumption.

Except the story isn't about video games. Its about a transgendered person saying that she needed money for surgery to save her life, when she actually was planning to use it
to get a sex change. Peoples money was taken from them under false pretences.

If he didn't do it somehow this information would have needed to get out considering how important this person being transgendered was to the issue. It was the basis of the entire story and people were
going to ask what their money was really for if it wasn't to save this girls life.

Also, you say that people don't deserve to know this about this woman, but the people she took money from and lied to absolutely deserve to know the truth about what was happening.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Reporting on the scam is journalism, and Chloe should be rightly criticised for it.

Outing her as trans is gossip, and there was no need to reveal it.

Only one is necessary for this story; we don't need to know what she planned to spend the money on, just that the reason she stated was a deception. It should've been Chloe's decision entirely to reveal the true reason for wanting the cash, and Pinsof should be fired for outing her.

So then he's not a journalist then. I think people have a right to live their life as they see fit. And to each their own. But when you commit fraud and are exposed, no duh the details are going to come out.

I don't know how any journalist can do a story on fraud and leave out the relevant part of why. Just do who, what, where, when, and how (maybe, if you can dance around it)? The why is usually the post relevant part of any story. It's not journalism if you're going to omit wholesale sections.

 

[Ravensmash]

Doesn't matter if it resulted in more speculation. It's still her right to explain why she did it, especially given the circumstances.

All that needed to be said is that Chloe isn't going to die from the embedded metal or whatever it was, because she lied about the IndieGoGo. You don't need to say that it was a cover up to pay for SRS. At that point, most people will just assume greed and be outraged at being lied to. It is then up to Chloe about whether she says the true motive and outs herself, or not.

It would still be half a story though - there'd be no hard reporting there. It'd be a case of "believe me, I'd tell you if I could" as opposed to laying out the facts.

 

[Akira_83]

Wat

Not outing someone as trans is special treatment now?

uh yes

if i was running a scam for the publics money and a website found out, all those internet sleuths would be digging up ALL the dirt on me they could. all my secrets. its happened a million times and always will.

no one would be standing up for me and saying i need my privacy and its not right

why is that? because im a straight white male?

 

[Domstercool]

Only one is necessary for this story; we don't need to know what she planned to spend the money on, just that the reason she stated was a deception. It should've been Chloe's decision entirely to reveal the true reason for wanting the cash, and Pinsof should be fired for outing her.

The donators didn't need to know what their money could have been potentially supporting? I'm not sure about that. It's the public, not a private donation, it's different and the person lied to the public.

Would be no different if a politician was found out that they set up a donation plea, but had plans to party and get drunk with it all. When it comes down to the public, it's a very tough and different matter than privately.

 

[YouEnjoyMySelf]

The girl sounds mentally unstable and needs to seek serious help. Shame that this guy lost his job over exposing a dirty scheme.

Video Game Journalism, lol.

 

[Quixzlizx]

People not thinking it's a big deal that she was outed. People not thinking there's a risk for her by being outed.

It's never anyone's place to out someone.

I would suggest to people who are attempting to hide something not to bring attention to their secret by committing crimes involving the public that are at least tangentially related to said secret, especially if the crimes involve exploiting the public's good intentions towards them.

I don't think the outrage would've been the same if the NYT had broken the story, because people expect actual journalism to happen at a newspaper.