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[Roronoa Zoro]

Well, that settles it. I'm selling my entire PS library, including my PSN ID. Let me know if you're interested, these quotes are staggering and I need to jump ship now cause PS5 games are going to suck and look a generation behind the SeX. I'll be using the funds from my sell off to buy into the my new home now, Xbox. I'm looking to make new friends as well, i need to fill that friends list...

this is how I imagine some people are being right now LOL honestly, if power was that much of selling point for you, like everyone says "Go build a PC" yes, it is expensive but you get all the power you could ever want. Also, you can sell your Switch, that weak ass system with great games, to help pay for PC parts.

Relax boys, it'll all be okay in the end. PS & SeX will both get great games. 3rd party games will look identical, unless you're pixel peeping! 1st party games will, in the end, look fairly similar save for art style and art direction.

Well if power meant so much you would have already avoided PS1 and PS2 and the second half of PS4's gen

 

[DynamiteCop!]

But surely the SSD and unified RAM and increased clocks count for SOMETHING to actually make the gap smaller again? Either that or there really is a big difference which will force them to put it $100 cheaper if they weren't already which of course worked fine for the less powerful early Sony systems and Pro

It amounts for something, but it doesn't amount to a remotely close scenario of suddenly overcoming or even coming close to matching 16 additional compute units and a 44% higher amount of RT intersections. It will push the fill rates up a bit but that's pretty much the long and short of it, it's still a sizeably inferior GPU. The whole GPU for the X scales upwardly, it has more CU's, it will have more ROPs, it will have more TMUs, the pixel and texel fill rates will still be higher, there's just no way around any of this.

Given the undoubtedly high cost of their SSD any cost proposition they would have likely of had is most likely lost. Even worse it's lost on something which will probably fall under the veil of diminished returns and in practice not reveal itself to be very advantageous. They're both already incredibly fast SSD's, they both have intelligent delivery systems setup which are tied into them and handle data a bit differently.

 

[azertydu91]

Not everyone is a console warrior circle jerking.

That's neat you don't care though? I'm simply interested in the tech; and if I am going to discuss it would prefer people discuss it accurately.

I'll be buying both systems and enjoying the games like you said... but still find it fun/interesting to predict / discuss the differences. People using it as some "war" are annoying, but even some of those people have knowledge so I don't dismiss them.

But yeah, if you don't find this interesting.. the fact it took you so long to come to this "epiphany" deserves you no cookies., sorry lol

I'm not looking for any cookie and have been talking to a lot of people here or on era to simply to understand more about tech (you can find me on the what is a flop on Era)and I enjoy talking about tech but there's too much warrior here that information is too diluted (dilued?) here and franckly too few people here are willing to discuss tech without some console (or pc sometimes) warrior shitting the threads eother on PS or xbox.
Which is better I don't care what I want is to understand how it works.
But there's too much console war for people to be honest here (maybe we don't know enough to really form an educated opinion).And I have to admit it is hard to follow sometimes the serious tech talk considering english isn't my native language but there's too much bias to be able to talk technologies.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

It amounts for something, but it doesn't amount to a remotely close scenario of suddenly overcoming or even coming close to matching 16 additional compute units and a 44% higher amount of RT intersections. It will push the fill rates up a bit but that's pretty much the long and short of it, it's still a sizeably inferior GPU. The whole GPU for the X scales upwardly, it has more CU's, it will have more ROPs, it will have more TMUs, the pixel and texel fill rates will still be higher, there's just no way around any of this.

Given the undoubtedly high cost of their SSD any cost proposition they would have likely of had is most likely lost. Even worse it's lost on something which will probably fall under the veil of diminished returns and in practice not reveal itself to be very advantageous. They're both already incredibly fast SSD's, they both have intelligent delivery systems setup which are tied into them and handle data a bit differently.

That seems a bit far fetched that they would be willing to make the equivalent of an Xsex cost wise and waste all that money on something that won't be any different. This isn't like Kinect where you can clearly see where the extra cost went. It has to have some real world benefit over the much cheaper ones that they could've gone with and beefed up their GPU

 

[DynamiteCop!]

That seems a bit far fetched that they would be willing to make the equivalent of an Xsex cost wise and waste all that money on something that won't be any different. This isn't like Kinect where you can clearly see where the extra cost went. It has to have some real world benefit over the much cheaper ones that they could've gone with and beefed up their GPU

It's not far fetched, an SSD of that nature would literally be several hundred dollars. Sure they would get discounts and what not but it's still the most expensive component in that system by far.

 

[The Pleasure]

 

[Zok310]

wow, holy shit

 

[KINGMOKU]

Maybe the CU's are timed exclusive and they get unlocked on the PS5 a month after launch?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

It's not far fetched, an SSD of that nature would literally be several hundred dollars. Sure they would get discounts and what not but it's still the most expensive component in that system by far.

But why would they choose to throw away money if it's not gonna get more than the SSD that MS has (noticably and especially compared to a 12tf GPU)

 

[Rxq109]

wow, holy shit

Oh my thats from that peter pan movie right

 

[DynamiteCop!]

But why would they choose to throw away money if it's not gonna get more than the SSD that MS has (noticably and especially compared to a 12tf GPU)

Well no one is saying it's not useful, but practical application and results are something else entirely. There's only so much you can do, there's only so much that can be rendered or loaded into a scene, the SSD isn't a replacement for memory bandwidth, it's absurdly slow in comparison. People also forget how fast Microsoft's drive is as well and what they're doing with it, at minimum it's a 40x uplift in I/O.

Look at what an SSD has done for Sony's marketing, a fucking SSD.... With a factually weaker system people just gloss over that in its entirety and shout SSD! SSD!

It's turned a marketing blunder into something questionably positive and the funniest part in all of it is no one can actually explain how it will factually benefit in game design over Microsoft's system. People seem to forget that just because something can hypothetically stream in data faster that it also has to render it, and Sony is at a disadvantage here, they're also at a memory bandwidth disadvantage which is far more important.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Maybe the CU's are timed exclusive and they get unlocked on the PS5 a month after launch?

Maybe they'll both have to delay a year to give people time to get their lives back together and Sony can copy MS' work

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Well no one is saying it's not useful, but practical application and results are something else entirely. There's only so much you can do, there's only so much that can be rendered or loaded into a scene, the SSD isn't a replacement for memory bandwidth, it's absurdly slow in comparison. People also forget how fast Microsoft's drive is as well and what they're doing with it, at minimum it's a 40x uplift in I/O.

Look at what an SSD has done for Sony's marketing, a fucking SSD.... With a factually weaker system people just gloss over that in its entirety and shout SSD! SSD!

It's turned a marketing blunder into something questionably positive and the funniest part in all of it is no one can actually explain how it will factually benefit in game design over Microsoft's system. People seem to forget that just because something can hypothetically stream in data faster that it also has to render it, and Sony is at a disadvantage here, they're also at a memory bandwidth disadvantage which is far more important.

But like...they had to KNOW their memory and GPU were incapable of taking advantage of such a thing and those aren't gonna change so why throw away money if it's just being wasted on something that has nothing to do with all it's speed? It's not like they surprised Cerny after he developed the SSD and said "sorry mark were downgrading everything else but we'll waste money on this thing you made and waste money putting one in every console for 7 years"

 

[DynamiteCop!]

But like...they had to KNOW their memory and GPU were incapable of taking advantage of such a thing and those aren't gonna change so why throw away money if it's just being wasted on something that has nothing to do with all it's speed? It's not like they surprised Cerny after he developed the SSD and said "sorry mark were downgrading everything else but we'll waste money on this thing you made and waste money putting one in every console for 7 years"

Like another user stated, look at the Nintendo 64. Those people then who developed that were just as intelligent as the ones behind this, that doesn't mean it can be effectively leveraged or can actually be leveraged in a meaningful capacity beyond something else which is already exceedingly fast. Nintendo 64 games still ended up operating sub-optimally as they were GPU and CPU limited, 20 FPS games were the standard. These SSD's are slow, both of them, not relative to SSD's in general but relative to the real defactor differentiator in all of this, the RAM.

There's not going to be a meaningful difference between these consoles in terms of streaming and loading. "PS5 will have virtually no loading times", what's a 2x multiplier on effectively 0? Do you see where I'm going with this? It's overblown, they're both lightyears ahead of where they need to be, they're both beyond development constraints.

 

[The Pleasure]

wow, holy shit

For the players baby. Henshin a gogo!

 

[Hendrick's]

But surely the SSD and unified RAM and increased clocks count for SOMETHING to actually make the gap smaller again?

No way to tell that now. All we have are the raw numbers.

It could make the PS5 be so much more than the sum of its flops.

It could also not.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Damn, y'all still doing this?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

No way to tell that now. All we have are the raw numbers.

It could make the PS4 be so much more than the sum of its flops.

It could also not.

You're telling me PS5 could be so advanced it will retroactively make PS4 even better?

 

[Shambala]

Damn, y'all still doing this?

7 years of frustration built up from the Xbox fanboys lol. It’s only just begun

 

[The Pleasure]

You're telling me PS5 could be so advanced it will retroactively make PS4 even better?

Dio's stand, the world makes this possible, potatoe.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The title is talking about new quotes from devs that have more experience with the dev kits...

I open the thread...

They are all oldish quotes.

My impression is that it depends what they are testing with exactly, the xsx will definitely have an advantage if you want to quickly upgrade your existing games, the faster GPU, slightly faster CPU, etc. would definitely give it an advantage over the PS5, however without technical descriptions we don't really know what they consider "staggering". Does it mean ports of games that run at 4k/60 on the xsx would run at 1080p with stuttering and all? or does he mean games that would run at 4k/120 on the xsx would run at 4k/60 on the PS5?

I don't think that the faster SSD was implied to replace the slight benefits in computing speed on the XSX, nor will it make initial loading that much faster... however for games that do dynamic loading of assets during gameplay it would mean that they can load twice as much in a given time frame... that could be used to free up memory (to load better textures by example), or to load more detailed assets... so while the 10.2TF GPU will never compute more than the 12.1TF one, it could end up working with more data.

What I'm wondering about is will that scenario where more data is required to be streamed in a given scene be a relevant marker? I don't know that, but I do know that a ~20% GPU difference (even 25%) is not that meaningful if you manage resolution/details levels intelligently... I mean, compare the characters in TLoU2 vs what was in the reveal of Senua's Sacrifice 2, and those machines have way more than 50% difference, I'm not denying the differences, just highlighting that they may not be as relevant as some would like us to believe.

 

[Hendrick's]

You're telling me PS5 could be so advanced it will retroactively make PS4 even better?

Who can keep track? I prefer my consoles to have random names each new generation.

 

[mejin]

And XsX exclusives won’t?

that's a good question. X is much more powerful than Pro and this meant nothing in the end.

There are no MS games that beat AAA games coming from Sony WWS. Looking at TLoU 2 and Ghost this year and gap is too damn big.

 

[SonGoku]

I dont see how two "developers" (dynamic voltage i am cry),one retired over a decade ago the other anonymous... , are enough to form a consensus of anything especially considering the amount of active devs singing praises publicly and rating both consoles pretty close to each other which is no surprise if you look at the specs.

Even assuming the xbox podcast member is telling the truth about speaking with a developer there are some pretty glaring holes in some of the claims made

First off, we have no clue what the sustained numbers of the GPU and CPU are.

Admits to not having a clue about PS5 specs (no devkit access)

However judging by the leak that did nail the Series X numbers, they are significantly lower.

Doesn't 't know a thing about the console (by own admission) but just runs with info that directly contradicts Mark Cerny under the pretense that it got some things right while conveniently omitting it got just as many things wrong. Claiming with certainty that its significantly inferior even though by his admission he doesn't have a clue about PS5 specs

That said, one of the things you and most general users skip over is how the CU count is a huge drawback on all modern executions such as ray tracing, variable rate shading, VFFR, etc…meaning the CU cores are tied to the ray tracing cores. So with that said, the PS5 has 40% or so fewer CUs.

Disingenuous statement considering their CUs run at different frequencies, PS5 CUs do more per cycle than SEX CUs. The xbox still has the overall advantage but its much smaller: 17-21%.
(Wrong math too its 30% less CUs).

Not surprised a clickbait site ran with it

 

[Journey]

Xbox one x whatever was more powerful than the ps4 pro and ot still tanked. Good graphics and powerful hardware do not mean good games. And that's what a console is all about, games. Xbox doesn't have many good exclusive games, Sony has a better selection of good games from all genres.

Curious, which did better on apples vs apples, PS4 Pro or X1X?

 

[semicool]

The way I see it. PRO is winning lots in framerate, which is always the preferred metric.....Granted MS always has the higher rez but most times at a serious deficit to framerate.....The divide next gen? Without taking PS5's customized engineering into the equation and if you were actually looking at these consoles as similarly engineered is only about 15-17%, that makes it much lower than the 35% that XBONEX has over PRO, not forgetting XBONEX's extra bandwidth and Vram……..

If you begin to think about it, the rez divide between next gen consoles will be very negligible, the rez will most times be 4k native on each, the textures and loadtimes will be better on PS5 and the framerate may go to PS5 in many scenarios, that is when we consider PS5's strengths, which it has many relative to customized hardware...…..It's not going away......Vgtech/NXgamer/DF comparisons will be interesting indeed......If persons were so sure that XBOX would runaway with everything, they would not be so defensive in people talking up the unique hardware of PS5.....None of what we are excited for on PS5 are imaginary or "powah of da cloud coolaid"...….That's the big difference here....

Because the PS4 pro renders half the pixels in said games than the X, at least it's substantially less, don't be obtuse please.

 

[Hobbygaming]

There's going to be a lot of disappointed people expecting a big difference between multiplatform games

 

[V4skunk]

Behold!

A bathroom tile?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Who can keep track? I prefer my consoles to have random names each new generation.

It's true. Counting in order is so antiquated

 

[Urprobablyright]

I'm an unnamed expert.

You can quote me.

The consoles are going to be more or less identical in terms of performance on opening weekend. The differences in hardware are probably going to evidence themselves in some vastly different system exclusive titles, in which entirely different aspects of gameplay experience will be focused on, but both of the consoles will be entirely capable of rendering games with perfect fidelity on release. PS5 will have markedly lower load times and users wearing headphones will shit themselves with the new 3D surround sound, but on the flip side the XSX will probably be releasing bling'er system exclusives a few years from now.

We here at my unnamed industry powerhouse design studio are more excited for the PS5 as it seems to be trying to rock the boat of standard consoles. Whether or not it succeeds is not something we care to speculate on, at least not until gameplay videos are revealed. Which may have to wait until after coronavirus burns itself out a tad.

 

[SatansReverence]

So all the customizations and extra silicon is bullshit? So you would rather obfuscate tangible hardware that will actually make a huge difference at runtime between these consoles because you just want to push "it's simply a 10.3 vs 12.1 equation full stop?".....Got it....

You are literally the current version of the team xbox "xbox one esram hidden dgpu dx12 secret sauce" from the start of last gen. Congratulations.

Yes, 12.1 > "10.3" and no amount of dGpuSSD secret sauce bullshit is going to change that.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You are literally the current version of the team xbox "xbox one esram hidden dgpu dx12 secret sauce" from the start of last gen. Congratulations.

Yes, 12.1 > "10.3" and no amount of dGpuSSD secret sauce bullshit is going to change that.

I have to admit it is pretty hilarious watching them become the very people they argued against at the beginning of the current gen. While they are becoming increasingly annoying seeing things come full circle is comical.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

The whole GPU for the X scales upwardly, it has more CU's, it will have more ROPs, it will have more TMUs, the pixel and texel fill rates will still be higher, there's just no way around any of this.

I heard it was likely series x and ps5 would have the same number of ROPs.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I heard it was likely series x and ps5 would have the same number of ROPs.

Extremely doubtful, the current estimation given the known specifications would be 80 ROPs with the PlayStation 5 at 64.

PS5 doesn't have the gusto to require that kind of output, the Series X does, hell it wouldn't surprise me if the Series X had 96 ROPs.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Extremely doubtful, the current estimation given the known specifications would be 80 ROPs with the PlayStation 5 at 64.

PS5 doesn't have the gusto to require that kind of output, the Series X does, hell it wouldn't surprise me if the Series X had 96 ROPs.

I've heard it likely has 64 rops too. But we'll see weren't the docs hacked and about to be leaked?

 

[Barakov]

Who can keep track? I prefer my consoles to have random names each new generation.

The PS5 is definitely the new Playstation and The XSX is definitely the new Xbox.....probably.

 

[The Pleasure]

You are literally the current version of the team xbox "xbox one esram hidden dgpu dx12 secret sauce" from the start of last gen. Congratulations.

Yes, 12.1 > "10.3" and no amount of dGpuSSD secret sauce bullshit is going to change that.

MUH FLOPS is going to be the new Xbox battle cry much like ZELDA 64 was the battlecry of N64 with all of its power and one game a year to be hyped for.

 

[eastwood333]

Because sells is more important than what the games will look/play like. Right? Good thing we all have stocks in these companies.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Curious, which did better on apples vs apples, PS4 Pro or X1X?

Usually X but not always(which is odd)

 

[eastwood333]

MUH FLOPS is going to be the new Xbox battle cry much like ZELDA 64 was the battlecry of N64 with all of its power and one game a year to be hyped for.

You haven't seen all the investment in new studios by MS? Where have you been the last year? Dreaming of all that revolutionary coming from the PS5's SSD?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Because sells is more important than what the games will look/play like. Right? Good thing we all have stocks in these companies.

Well thankfully PlayStation also puts out the best rated and best looking games as well.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Well thankfully PlayStation also puts out the best rated and best looking games as well.

 

[eastwood333]

Well thankfully PlayStation also puts out the best rated and best looking games as well.

And majority of game releases are multiplats, which will look and play best on XSX. And MS has invested in a lot more studio's since. We will see those games in the new gen. So I expect both companies to come out swinging in 1st party. You should play Ori and the Will of the Wisp, better than any PS4 exclusive released this year so far

 

[The Pleasure]

You haven't seen all the investment in new studios by MS? Where have you been the last year? Dreaming of all that revolutionary coming from the PS5's SSD?

You mean those studios that are AA at best? Or the fact that they shut down studios left and right? Or the fact that if they make one big hit they're going to grind that thing into the ground? Don't get it twisted, I love Double Fine, InXile, but they're not huge well known names. Microsoft needs to hype my ass with Age of Mythologies sequel, Age of Empires IV, Flight Sim XI, Close Combat needs a revival and a few other things.

And you think Phil Spencer is going to be given free reign of Microsoft's wallet after the Xbox being third place three times in a row? Microsoft's biggest accomplishments are charging for online, exclusive apps, grinding franchises into the ground and being the rich kid trying to buy shit while having mommy and daddy leash them on their fancy. So pardon me if I'm not bowing to the magical X which makes console warriors praise the mighty flop. Just remember the Mantra of healing

QUEST 64 SUCKS

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You haven't seen all the investment in new studios by MS? Where have you been the last year? Dreaming of all that revolutionary coming from the PS5's SSD?

They been investing in studios since the OG XB.
How long do we have to wait to see the fruit of all those acquisitions?
Hopefully they finally do something and not waste them like they have done with Rare.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

And majority of game releases are multiplats, which will look and play best on XSX. And MS has invested in a lot more studio's since. We will see those games in the new gen. So I expect both companies to come out swinging in 1st party. You should play Ori and the Will of the Wisp, better than any PS4 exclusive released this year so far

It's not better than Nioh 2 and I doubt it sells half of what Nioh 2 sells even though it's double the price.

Ori is a nice Indy series though and I can't wait to play it in 60fps on XSX

 

[eastwood333]

You mean those studios that are AA at best? Or the fact that they shut down studios left and right? Or the fact that if they make one big hit they're going to grind that thing into the ground? Don't get it twisted, I love Double Fine, InXile, but they're not huge well known names. Microsoft needs to hype my ass with Age of Mythologies sequel, Age of Empires IV, Flight Sim XI, Close Combat needs a revival and a few other things.

And you think Phil Spencer is going to be given free reign of Microsoft's wallet after the Xbox being third place three times in a row? Microsoft's biggest accomplishments are charging for online, exclusive apps, grinding franchises into the ground and being the rich kid trying to buy shit while having mommy and daddy leash them on their fancy. So pardon me if I'm not bowing to the magical X which makes console warriors praise the mighty flop. Just remember the Mantra of healing

QUEST 64 SUCKS

Wait, The Initiative new game is AA? Playground's new RPG is double AA? Obisidian's new open world RPG is AA? Future Turn 10, 343, The Coalition games are AA?

MS 1st party will have a balance of AAA and AA. People want to purposefully take Booty's remarks out of context when all he said was is their games will not be 100hr games made by 500 people. Majority of Sony's 1st party are 7-15 hr games.

Work on your trolling skill, they're lacking

 

[eastwood333]

They been investing in studios since the OG XB.
How long do we have to wait to see the fruit of all those acquisitions?
Hopefully they finally do something and not waste them like they have done with Rare.

No they haven't. They've been shutting studio down until Phil took over as Head of Xbox. They acquired around 7 studios in just the last couple years, which is more than the 360-XB1 era combined.

Again, be better at being a troll. We all know some of you guys have your jimmies in a wrestle over the fact XSX is superior in power

 

[The Pleasure]

Wait, The Initiative new game is AA? Playground's new RPG is double AA? Obisidian's new open world RPG is AA? Future Turn 10, 343, The Coalition games are AA?

MS 1st party will have a balance of AAA and AA. People want to purposefully take Booty's remarks out of context when all he said was is their games will not be 100hr games made by 500 people. Majority of Sony's 1st party are 7-15 hr games.

Work on your trolling skill, they're lacking

I'm saying this as someone that's been playing Microsoft's games from the 90s. Perhaps they left me behind? Maybe I'm turning too old and shit isn't exciting me anymore? Who knows to be quite frank. But yes, I do have a shitload of Microsoft games from the 90s and 2000s but they're all PC. Perhaps it's my state of not being satisfied anymore? And Obsidian's RPGS have too much jank for me. Turn 10? Forza? Screw that. 343. Didn't they kill Halo after Bungie dipped?

But who knows. Perhaps I'm not the type of person they're advertising to anymore? Now you depressed me making me feel all old. I'm going to look at my boxes of Microsoft Entertainment Packs and remember when PC gaming fascinated me back in Windows 3.1

Sounds like you lackin. You're defending Microsoft like it's your wife. Does Microsoft cut off the sex when you don't defend her honor? Or are you the Johhny Turbo variant where you're like OH MY GOD! SONY"S NOT EVEN HUMAN! DON"T LET THEM TELL YOU LIES! ONLY THE XBOX SERIES X HAS TERAFLOPS!

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Wait, The Initiative new game is AA? Playground's new RPG is double AA? Obisidian's new open world RPG is AA? Future Turn 10, 343, The Coalition games are AA?

MS 1st party will have a balance of AAA and AA. People want to purposefully take Booty's remarks out of context when all he said was is their games will not be 100hr games made by 500 people. Majority of Sony's 1st party are 7-15 hr games.

Work on your trolling skill, they're lacking

Halo hasn't been AAA since Reach.
I luv Gears but it's not considered AAA anymore (even though I disagree)
Forza is legendary.
You played the new games from the
acquisitions?

Bloodborne kills any exclusive ever made for any XB console but Sony does nothing with it so it's almost non existent.