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[BlackTron]

Because the Nintendo Switch has sold 125 million units, that is why, despite any hardware limitations, developers want to continue developing games for it. It's just as simple as that.

I, too, remember when devs made games for Game Boy alongside home consoles. Yeah, it wasn't the same then, either.

 

[Bogroll]

Gamepass money does.

So they're just moaning like people at work everyday all over the world. They get paid to do a job tuff shit if they don't like it. Like 99.9 % of us in the world.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So they're just moaning like people at work everyday all over the world. They get paid to do a job tuff shit if they don't like it. Like 99.9 % of us in the world.

Maybe they should get a different job? Like the one you have for example.

 

[Audiophile]

Series S should have been 5TF+ GPU, identical CPU clock and have 12GB GDDR6 @ 336GB/s. Then scaling down would have been more straightforward. As it is though it's bordering on a feature-breaking gulf.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Someone has to push back against the nonsense in here.

If you believe that Series S is and will continue to hold back gaming then make a case for it. So far we haven’t really seen it. Some of the most graphically intensive games of the generation have ran just fine on the Series S.

Erm bro multiple Devs over multiple years have made this claim and have made their case for it. And releasing an 8gb (for games)console in 2020 alone is stupid and makes a case for it by itself.

What you're doing, is burying your head in the sand, while you ignore what we already know .

I swear, your posts make literally no sense and read like someone rushing to "pwn" by getting the first post in a new thread. It would actually be really good to get legitimate developers on this forum to comment on how they deal with parity clauses and compatible development on the varying specs in the current gaming market. Otherwise, these threads continue to be circlejerks of which console warrior can get the best zinger for all those emoticon reactions.

It makes perfect sense. Multiple threads and Devs stating issues with said console. Vs childish console warriors putting there fingers in their ears and lecturing Devs that they're wrong .
Seeing the most obnoxious poster on the forum embarrass himself is entertaining.

There is a discussion to be had. People are trying to discuss why it's holding back and the consequences of it. Then there's the shills who aren't interested in that, and comically blame lazy Devs.

It's the equivalent of Einstein telling you how gravity works and Riky telling Einstein it doesn't work like that.

 

[twilo99]

As next gen consoles get crippled by new UE5 games, Series S will eventually have to go into negative resolutions.

Imagine what we would have if devs didn’t have to accommodate for the archaic hardware in the consoles..

To a 4090 rig owner, a PS5 is what the xss is to xsx owner?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Imagine what we would have if devs didn’t have to accommodate for the archaic hardware in the consoles..

To a 4090 rig owner, a PS5 is what the xss is to xsx owner?

I doubt the PS5 is as weak as the XSS. Plenty of comparisons prove that wrong.

 

[Interfectum]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

 

[mckmas8808]

Not saying this is true as twitterusers tend to talk a lot of bullshit as the day goes on, but as a developer myself I could at least understand not wanting to have to deal with that situation.

But devs have been saying the issues they have with the Series S, since launch. This isn't new news in of itself. The new news is how much they still hate it and how this isn't changing.

Most of us were waiting "on the tools" to help out, but that doesn't seem to be helping. This is bad man.

 

[Mr.ODST]

Its true, what we heard as devs prior to release, wasn't true. We here didn't received XSS for development for over 2 years. XSX dev kits are overpowered even to XSX retail units and that GDK software profile, really works how they told it, but it seems it just limits resolution and VRAM (SW wise), but then you get hands on true HW and its...a mess.... X1X is better designed and more powerful GPU wise in a lot of scenarios.

So yeah, I was hopeful for some major API update, but sadly thats probably not coming for it. There is a lot of cool tech in consoles, which sadly isn't that useful when you are RAM bound.

This makes me depressed how good and better alot of these games would perform on Xbox without the Series S

 

[MasterCornholio]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

There we go. Problem solved.

 

[DeepEnigma]

We are the the phase of "devs need to find a new job then" line of brand defense.

 

[Banjo64]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

The only solution, drop the parity clause. I hope this is implemented for everybody and not just because Larian have a GOTG contender.

 

[Hugare]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

So Phil is opening the floodgates

But only if your game is as good as BG 3, I presume.

I doubt that they will do the same for other "lesser" games. We will see.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

This is not a passional hobby, it's a professional work. The only feature that has been very conflicting with XSS setup is couch co-op, I've not seen any other feature that has been a problem for devs, I mean, it's basically the one feature that is just too heavy on memory and that might be the reason it stopped being done on 7th gen, only Nintendo kept doing it and that's because Wii U had absurd amount of memory compared to PS360.

I would blame the publishers and not the developers in most cases, but yes. By the way, two pieces of news came out yesterday about games with online modes having features cut or limited to accommodate the lowest common denominator.

In the case, it was a Naruto game that will have the option to prevent playing online against people using consoles where the game runs at 30fps, and Forza limiting multiplayer to 60fps.
In the Naruto case, the game honestly should be capable of running at 60fps even on the PS4.
I don't think it's a limitation of the Series S, but rather a cost-cutting measure to not spend too much time developing for it.

In the end, either the hardware is a limitation, or because it's not a sales leader and it's not worth the effort. Either way, the Series S is in a tough spot.

 

[twilo99]

I doubt the PS5 is as weak as the XSS. Plenty of comparisons prove that wrong.

With games developed for the PS5? Sure.

Show me a game developed specifically for a 4090/7900x3D with 64 bg RAM and let’s see how that runs on the PS5.

I think UE5 is accidentally going to expose some of that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

 

[Esca]

I remember before this gen started people were trying to explain how the S was going to hold back this gen and all the defenders were like na, adjust some sliders and all is good.

It's hurt Ms a lot already. They could have had both starfield and bg3 together, instead the s is gimping bg3 and had given Sony a big exclusive when they didn't have anything coming out near starfield. Way to hurt yourselves you fucking cock munchers at ms

 

[Banjo64]

Also, I take it that means that even Phil acknowledged that the super duper Xbox engineering team that was helping out couldn’t get it working.

 

[Putonahappyface]

You're arguing with a cult member who thinks series s is more powerful than ps5.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Show me a game developed specifically for a 4090/7900x3D with 64 bg RAM and let’s see how that runs on the PS5.

Nobody will do that for .0003% of the gaming population.

 

[adamsapple]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

Great, this is the approach they should have taken since announcement.

That being said, I don't know if I'll even have time to play it this year.

 

[twilo99]

Also, I take it that means that even Phil acknowledged that the super duper Xbox engineering team that was helping out couldn’t get it working.

For now..

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

Not sure why they didn't just do this at the outset, my personal feeling is that I don't care about splitscreen, but I'm sure some people out there do. If it means that going forward the Series S is the "no splitscreen" machine, then it's still half the price of the other consoles playing current gen games so it'll surely be difficult to feel hard done by.

 

[Unknown?]

If it wasn't for that there wouldn't be an issue.

Honestly how many Series S owners are going to complain about the lack of Splitscreen?

They'll start complaining when more and more games lose features to the X. Honestly, in the end, I can see the Series S being worse than Kinect was for the One.

 

[jm89]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

But they will manage to work round it, we'll see when the game comes out on Xbox.

No working around it boss, they removed it entirely.

 

[TheTony316]

The same Devs getting verified for Steam Deck and who will be releasing games for Switch 2.

Devs aren't required to release games on the Steam Deck and the Switch is missing out on a lot of third party content, same will happen to the Switch 2.

 

[twilo99]

No working around it boss, they removed it entirely.

How can you be so sure it won’t be added with a future upgrade?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Monumental shift and what many have been arguing for in this very thread

Sets a huge precedent moving forward

 

[Topher]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

 

[mckmas8808]

Seems games are beginning a trend of getting delayed for Xbox, doubt Twitter users have a lot to do with that

What are these games that are getting delayed? I haven't seen any.

 

[jm89]

How can you be so sure it won’t be added with a future upgrade?

No one knows, maybe it will, right now it's a pointless discussion that smells like damage control.

 

[Zheph]

The devs sent out to help Larian right now

 

[graywolf323]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

can some of the usual suspects stop pretending it wasn’t the Series S causing issues finally? we have it right here from the horse’s mouth, it was split-screen co-op on Series S that was causing the problem & now that Phil has relented allowing the parity clause to be dropped BG3 will be coming to Xbox this year after all

Monumental shift and what many have been arguing for in this very thread

Sets a huge precedent moving forward

yep, it will be interesting to see if the feature parity clause is just gotten rid of entirely or does Xbox try to hold devs to it as long as possible? because you know there’s going to be plenty that will be like “well why do we have to if Larian didn’t?”

it’ll be really interesting to see what GTA VI supports on Series S vs. X for example

 

[DeepEnigma]

What are these games that are getting delayed? I haven't seen any.

BG3 was being delayed on Xbox to "sometime next year" due to the parity clause for the boat anchor. MS just lifted that clause for a 97 rated game and GOTY contender since they were taking some heat for it at Gamescom and online.

 

[twilo99]

Sets a huge precedent moving forward

It’s a good precedent, you get what you pay for after all.. can’t have it all and still pay less.

 

[TheTony316]

What delayed games? The minimum requirement for most PC games is still lower than Series S.

But PC minimum requirements increase over time. This isn't possible with a console.

 

[MasterCornholio]

They'll start complaining when more and more games lose features to the X. Honestly, in the end, I can see the Series S being worse than Kinect was for the One.

It's fine Microsoft fixed the policy. It means games won't be delayed anymore due to the Series S.

Plus Series S owners will appreciate having the game with a few less features rather than not getting it at all.

 

[Audiophile]

This would have been the much more measured play for MS imo:



A smaller, cheaper chip with a slightly faster GPU front-end on the XSX and a more straightforward memory scheme. Equivalent clocks across APUs on both XSX/XSS. And finally a half-size GPU on the XSS; but with 2GB more memory and higher bandwidth, again with a simplified memory scheme. Focus on APIs.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Well, MS kinda confirmed this with BG3 lol

 

[foamdino]

Someone has to push back against the nonsense in here.

If you believe that Series S is and will continue to hold back gaming then make a case for it. So far we haven’t really seen it. Some of the most graphically intensive games of the generation have ran just fine on the Series S.

And some of the most complex games cannot run on it - gfx is not the be-all/end-all of game dev. The arguments around "Series S can run game X fine" always boil down to it can run a game with very few systems running at a reduced framerate/resolution. As soon as a more complex game appears it shits the bed - it is massively disingenuous to compare doom with BG3 and I'm getting irritated by the false narratives being pushed by the usual warriors, but oh look (from before the launch, devs were worried):

 

[Three]

Not sure why they didn't just do this at the outset, my personal feeling is that I don't care about splitscreen, but I'm sure some people out there do. If it means that going forward the Series S is the "no splitscreen" machine, then it's still half the price of the other consoles playing current gen games so it'll surely be difficult to feel hard done by.

Because they made a massive blunder and claimed the machine has all the same features of the SX but just at a lower resolution. They really wanted to continue with that even if it pushed the burden onto the devs. They opened themselves up for a lawsuit from Series S buyers but I suspect they feel safe enough knowing this wouldn't bring a class action from xbox buyers.

 

[Bogroll]

Maybe they should get a different job? Like the one you have for example.

Yes that's one option.
Yes I did and now I love my work.

 

[StereoVsn]

Then don't say you would fit right in at Larian and stop pretending you have the answers because you watched a youtube video.

I'm also a non-gaming software engineer with 20+ years of experience. Doesn't mean I know jack shit about making video games.

Yep, I have been doing software and infrastructure architecture for many years. Doesn't mean I can waltz into Epic and help them optimize Fortnite, lol.

Although, Tim, if you are reading, make me an offer!

 

[Kappa]

One dev can't make a feature work and it's the end of the world apparently. Yet the Xbox one is still being supported by big studios....

 

[mckmas8808]

So Phil is opening the floodgates

But only if your game is as good as BG 3, I presume.

I doubt that they will do the same for other "lesser" games. We will see.

They have to allow this on all games going forward right? MS is boxed in now.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Because they made a massive blunder and claimed the machine has all the same features of the SX but just at a lower resolution. They really wanted to continue with that even if it pushed the burden onto the devs. They opened themselves up for a lawsuit from Series S buyers but I suspect they feel safe enough knowing this wouldn't bring a class action from xbox buyers.

I think Series S customers would have been more likely to not even notice that BG3 doesn't have split screen rather than launching a law suit, but let's see what happens.

 

[NeroDaGod]

You're arguing with a cult member who thinks series s is more powerful than ps5.

Saying this with absolutely 0 shame is embarrassing.

 

[foamdino]

Boom. Phil already relenting. BG3 coming to Xbox this year. No split screen coop for Series S.

And there it fucking is - so all those shills banging on about lazy devs - yep Series S literally could not run the game with split screen. Series S owners now getting the "not quite as parity as we were sold as parity" experience.

 

[Killer8]

I fear the alternative is Sony hoovering up more 'defacto' exclusives where given the choice between dealing with S or skipping Xbox entirely, more devs choose the latter. You can force the issue if you have the market share to be unskippable... But Xbox is not and does not.

He can't seriously believe this choice will realistically happen.

Xbox Series is at, what, 22 million units sold by now? By the end of the generation, probably double that. Presuming Series S is still around then, the choice of the headache of getting a game running on Series S vs missing out on potentially millions of sales is not a choice any developer (more like publisher) will be taking lightly. It's why Larian are getting MS engineers in to try to make it work rather than giving up completely. If developers just threw in the towel if they faced some hurdles in development, nothing would ever get released.

If a game is completely skipping Xbox, there will be other reasons for doing so: historically low sales on the platform, differences in geographical interest (ie. Japan), exclusivity deals on PS5, no developer experience with the platform (ie. Japan...) etc.

Microsoft would not be prepared to lose games completely over their Series S requirement and I can see it being dropped as soon as it becomes a serious barrier to the game releasing. Just like historically dumb requirements like "XBL Arcade titles must be 50mb". If Microsoft were given a choice between a game releasing on Series X only, or not at all on Xbox, which do you think they will choose?

A sticker on the box to clarify hardware requirements can do wonders.

EDIT: Oh, look who was right:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/series-x-s-parity-clause-changed-bg3-coming-to-xbox-this-year-no-split-screen-coop-for-series-s.1660214/

Imagine what we would have if devs didn’t have to accommodate for the archaic hardware in the consoles..

To a 4090 rig owner, a PS5 is what the xss is to xsx owner?

Your 4090 is already archaic hardware for this particular game, it struggles to hit 4K60 on low settings. No one is really prepared yet for the UE5 titles using the full feature set.