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[dampflokfreund]

Good lord the 900p / 1080p difference is so noticeable. I don't know how people can be okay with that.

It isn't. The improvement is noticable but its not a big deal. 900p and 1080p looks good, but not on this game. In both resolutions the game is looking like a mess.BF4 has better graphics

 

[SniperHunter]

No, it's not bullshit. That's a direct feed screenshot.

That said, what you're getting at without actually realizing it is the factor of view distance and display type.

The type of display you use combined with the distance from which you sit can increase or decrease your perception of visual artifacts. I can admit that, from my normal viewing distance on a good plasma, the game looks better than those screenshots suggest. That has no bearing on what the system is actually outputting.

This is why image quality tends to be more important on the PC front - most people play PC games in front of an LCD monitor. Sitting that close to an LCD display is the most difficult of situations for managing good image quality, I've found. You need better anti-aliasing and higher resolutions to compensate for the viewing distance and display type.

As a reverse example try playing a game on a nice CRT PC monitor. You'll find that higher resolutions suddenly become less useful due to the nature of the display. 1024x768 with 4x MSAA on a CRT looks absolutely super smooth and clean. It's really quite striking, really, just how different it looks.

Still, when analyzing the visual output of a game one must place all platforms on a level playing field. Analyzing output from a system on a monitor against PC output is the only way to understand how they compare.

That said, in the case of BFH, the shimmering and sub-pixel artifacts visible on thin objects are bad to the point that you'd have to stand a good 20 feet away not to be bothered by them. :\

the shimmering problem was also visible on BF4 as well especially on that one China rising man with the big radar on the mountains.

the newest bf games look ugly without at least 2xmsaa with post processing on high

 

[Enilced2]

Full multiplayer suite with new modes and maps plus a full singleplayer campaign. Sounds like a full retail release worth of content to me, even more so when compared to the offerings of some other "full" retail releases from the past year

 

[Barakov]

Well that is a bit of a bummer. I'm not really someone who is bothered by jaggies and lower res textures but the difference between consoles and PC is glaring. I expected this on last gen but it's quite surprising here on current gen.

 

[monocromo]

So... is Visceral becoming something like Battlefield's Treyarch ?

Honest question, not trying to be disrecspectful.

900p at 60 fps is perfectly fine for consoles. Only problem may be the IQ.

 

[nib95]

I actually like the whole premise of the game, cops robbers, heists etc, but graphically it really is a bit of a mess. I suppose it's 60fps at least….mostly….That and the scale is pretty huge.

 

[Bricky]

Care to expand on this? What's wrong with cops vs robbers?

He's probably referring to the many controversies surrounding the American police force and the militarization of law enforcement lately (ferguson being the most notable example). Some people think it is a bit tasteless to release a game like Hardline at a time like this.

Personally I just consider it a rather unfortunate coincidence, not like EA could know it would become a rather controversial topic when they started development on this.

 

[Terbinator]

Care to expand on this? What's wrong with cops vs robbers?

Because as above, but not exclusively, 'Murica can't get its shit together.

I also think it's wrong that EA are getting the heat for a game that was planned well in advance (the initial police "leak" was like 2011 IIRC?) of various incidents within the US.

 

[MaLDo]

so you skipped all of last gen on the consoles?? really??...

as for framerate, non-native makes no difference at all as long as the framerate is capped, and solid...a 30fps game will look identical on any modern TV regardless of refresh rate...60, 120, 240, whatever...



oh dont get me wrong...this game is ugly and im not defending its visuals...im just saying there is a lot of hypocricy here...

if the game was 1080/30 the same people would be screaming that its not 60fps...so they make the game 900/60 and they are screaming its not 1080p...

I play on pc. Your framerate/resolution distinction is only damage control about what you're used to. A 30 fps game will look juddery with the double image visual glitch no matter the refreshrate of the tv.

 

[demolitio]

I actually like the whole premise of the game, cops robbers, heists etc, but graphically it really is a bit of a mess. I suppose it's 60fps at least….mostly….That and the scale is pretty huge.

It'd be better if it was actual cops vs. robbers instead of this hybrid we have now where we have a lot of crazy military gear in some areas, but nothing exciting in others that are a big part of BF like the vehicles in this.

It's a weird mix that doesn't make much sense. I rather them make their own cops vs. robbers game that focuses on that actual aspect instead of trying to shoe-horn it into BF. The SP is the only thing that could be a big improvement over BF4 and we haven't even seen much of it.

I think I just want SWAT 5. Rainbow Six Siege is the only hope anytime soon.

I just want them to do BF1944 on Frostbite and go back to the series' roots in terms of gameplay. They've been veering off course for far too long and while Hardline is an obvious spin-off done by Visceral, the spin-off still doesn't feel that much different, just mostly things taken OUT of the game, and reminds me of the mods we all used to play and work on with 1942, Vietnam, and BF2.

 

[ShadowsFell]

This is embarrassing.

 

[Insane Metal]

And this one... I feel like I'm going to barf

 

[Dyson Industries]

but what about.....?

 

[BONKERS]

The IQ difference between PC and PS4 is amazing

Spoiler

(ly bad)

.

Performance is the most important thing, sure, but a clear picture would be nice.

If the shitty GPUs in these consoles were capable of these rendering setups+4xSGSSAA it'd make a gigantic difference.

Heck, any AA that is better than the shitty FXAA implementation and poor quality MSAA in frostbite.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

I might have to upgrade my PC for this.

Not sure if I can handle the PS4's weaker graphics.

Shame we're only a little over a year in and the PS4 and XB1 are already showing their age.

These systems aren't as powerful for their times as past gen systems were.

 

[rokkerkory]

Will not buy 720p? wth

 

[BONKERS]

I play on pc. Your framerate/resolution distinction is only damage control about what you're used to. A 30 fps game will look juddery with the double image visual glitch no matter the refreshrate of the tv.

A stable 30FPS won't look juddery at all when it's done right. Which is entirely possible on both sides. Using 1/2 refresh rate+a 30FPS cap for additional stability on PC games results in a 99% stable, smooth and judder free experience.

It just doesn't have as many unique frames so every one is duplicated. Which on a TV that has good motion handling and less persistence problems it looks just FINE. Even with double imaging. Which happens even on a CRT. And is entirely livable depending on content.

I'm pretty sick of the bigotry and arrogance people like you show towards anything sub your standards. If it's not people like you with 60FPS. It's 120+hz people looking down on 60FPS/Hz and below.

A stable 30FPS is more than adequate and quality enough to play with. The problem is so few games on consoles achieve a stable 30FPS. And when some do, they massively fuck up frame delivery to the point where it makes it look juddery when it shouldn't. Which is true of many current PS4/XBO games.

I'll take a 100% stable and smooth 30FPS over an unstable, microstuttering and juddery mess of 60FPS any day. Unless it's a game that absolutely needs the extra input precision, like a fighting game, an action game like Bayonetta or Devil May Cry, or a racing game. Or an online competitive multiplayer game. Or a 2D game. 2D games should always be 60FPS.

 

[ryan299]

I know this is made by a different studio, but after this and Battlefield 4 I'm worried about Battlefront.

 

[Kezen]

These systems aren't as powerful for their times as past gen systems were.

They don't have to be. They are powerful enough to create a generational gap compared to the 360/PS3. In the end isn't what really matters ?

 

[Copen]

It'd be better if it was actual cops vs. robbers instead of this hybrid we have now where we have a lot of crazy military gear in some areas, but nothing exciting in others that are a big part of BF like the vehicles in this.

It's a weird mix that doesn't make much sense. I rather them make their own cops vs. robbers game that focuses on that actual aspect instead of trying to shoe-horn it into BF. The SP is the only thing that could be a big improvement over BF4 and we haven't even seen much of it.

I think I just want SWAT 5. Rainbow Six Siege is the only hope anytime soon.

I just want them to do BF1944 on Frostbite and go back to the series' roots in terms of gameplay. They've been veering off course for far too long and while Hardline is an obvious spin-off done by Visceral, the spin-off still doesn't feel that much different, just mostly things taken OUT of the game, and reminds me of the mods we all used to play and work on with 1942, Vietnam, and BF2.

It doesn't make much sense to me and it looks like a RB6/COD hybrid game they're going for at any rate this just isn't a Battlefield game. I can appreciate the effort Viscereal has put into the game and it's not their fault it's not a real BF game but ultimately I don't see this game having mass appeal and it should've been its own standalone game without the BF name on the case for recognition to boost sales. In every BF game vehicles play a huge part in how the games flow and the lack of true military vehicles and mass combat is what seals my opinion that this should've been an add on to BF4 or its own self titled game in the retail space. To add to this I fully believe had they chosen to do another BF Bad Company game it would've sold better than I think this one will. I'll truly be shocked if Hardline sells more than 2 million copies I just don't see it.

 

[alexandros]

They don't have to be. They are powerful enough to create a generational gap compared to the 360/PS3. In the end isn't what really matters ?

I don't think so, no. Consoles do not exist in a vacuum and the core gamer market is not infinite.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Not a fucking clue what is going on here.

Will wait for full release and not give DF a click for reviewing a fucking beta!

Game is out next month. Realisticaly this is closer to a demo than a beta.

 

[Derpcrawler]

That ps4 screenshot is bullshit. On my tv it looks a lot closer to the PC one. The power lines look nothing like that in game.

Lol, check your TV or your eye site. They do direct HDMi capture.

 

[Kezen]

I don't think so, no. Consoles do not exist in a vacuum and the core gamer market is not infinite.

You know I don't really think it has any tangible impact on demographics. Last I heard those consoles sold well enough and PC gaming is not an option for console gamers at heart who don't find the PC environment "secure" enough I think, at least this is what I got from having a chat with some of my console die-hards acquaintances.

I don't think consoles are in danger because of their more modest specs. As long as they are supported by the biggest publishers out there there is nothing to worry regarding the console market.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Wish they had pushed more in a 1080pr direction, but oh well. Probably wasn't going to get it anyway.

 

[MaLDo]

A stable 30FPS won't look juddery at all when it's done right. Which is entirely possible on both sides. Using 1/2 refresh rate+a 30FPS cap for additional stability on PC games results in a 99% stable, smooth and judder free experience.

It just doesn't have as many unique frames so every one is duplicated. Which on a TV that has good motion handling and less persistence problems it looks just FINE. Even with double imaging. Which happens even on a CRT. And is entirely livable depending on content.

I'm pretty sick of the bigotry and arrogance people like you show towards anything sub your standards. If it's not people like you with 60FPS. It's 120+hz people looking down on 60FPS/Hz and below.

A stable 30FPS is more than adequate and quality enough to play with. The problem is so few games on consoles achieve a stable 30FPS. And when some do, they massively fuck up frame delivery to the point where it makes it look juddery when it shouldn't. Which is true of many current PS4/XBO games.

I'll take a 100% stable and smooth 30FPS over an unstable, microstuttering and juddery mess of 60FPS any day. Unless it's a game that absolutely needs the extra input precision, like a fighting game, an action game like Bayonetta or Devil May Cry, or a racing game. Or an online competitive multiplayer game. Or a 2D game. 2D games should always be 60FPS.

30 fps are fine enough exactly like 720p were fine enough 2 years ago. When people have been used to 1080p, they shit over lower resolutions the same way everyone will shit over 30 fps if was used to.

Double image glitch I'm talking about is not frame repeat over two refresh. It's the visual effect produced by our brain at 30 hz games.

 

[Aces&Eights]

After BF4 fiasco I'm out.

This. BF4 Premium was the first "delux" I ever preordered. After 6 months of total disappointment, I've written off anything BF related.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

resolution really isnt that important for most console players because they sit a few feet away from their tv

 

[Kezen]

resolution really isnt that important for most console players because they sit a few feet away from their tv

If it was not important it would not be such a point of contention among console gamers. Just look at this very thread.
Rendering resolution does matter a lot it seems.

 

[MajorTom]

Lol, check your TV or your eye site. They do direct HDMi capture.

I'm just not going to say anything in future :/
It looks to me like they have taken a screenshot and then zoomed in on the screenshot. Let's face it, you are never going to notice that when playing.

 

[Dictator93]

I'm just not going to say anything in future :/
It looks to me like they have taken a screenshot and then zoomed in on the screenshot. Let's face it, you are never going to notice that when playing.

Actually the powerline style of aliasing is something you see really easily in gameplay. It doesn't look jaggy form the distance, rather it flickers on and off and pops in and out. It is really obvious from pretty much any distance.

 

[16BitNova]

Damn. I really thought it was 1080p when playing on PS4. Oh well, game looks and feels great. Plus its tons of fun, which is most important.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

If it was not important it would not be such a point of contention among console gamers. Just look at this very thread.
Rendering resolution does matter a lot it seems.

gaff is hardcore and only represents a tiny minority of gamers. most people dont give a shit

 

[Nzyme32]

If it was not important it would not be such a point of contention among console gamers. Just look at this very thread.
Rendering resolution does matter a lot it seems.

Try the same conversation out of a forum setting. Very few people give a shit

 

[CambriaRising]

Why does this game look so ugly?

 

[Bishop89]

Wasn't feeling it at all. Funnily enough the sp seems more interesting to me. Probably won't try it though. Sorry but only shooter I'm getting from ea this year is sw battlefront

 

[MMaRsu]

resolution really isnt that important for most console players because they sit a few feet away from their tv

I hope u are joking

 

[Gen.Grievous]

Played this beta for longer than Battlefield 4. BF4 I had enough off after only a handful of hours. The TTK was so freaking low and half the time I was dying well behind cover that it was more frustrating than fun. The explosives spam didn't help either. Hardline has much better netcode/hit detection. Which makes it feel a lot more fair. They need to balance some of the weapons but I'm genuinely enjoying this new beta.

 

[Metfanant]

I play on pc. Your framerate/resolution distinction is only damage control about what you're used to. A 30 fps game will look juddery with the double image visual glitch no matter the refreshrate of the tv.

so if you play on PC...why exactly are you here discussing the Xbone and PS4 versions?...as for the framerate im not doing "damage control" at all...its the truth...a solid 30fps game will look IDENTICAL on a 60, 120, or 240hz TV...same with 60fps content...

obviously there is an inherent judder to 30fps images when compared to 60fps...but playing 30fps content on a display with a 30hz refresh rate wont look better because its "native" just like 60fps doesnt look better on a 60hz TV than it does on a 120hz or 240hz...

 

[LegalEagleMike]

I hope u are joking

he is not completely off. Console gamers are not as likely to notice resolution gaps as clearly as PC gamers who sit right on top of their monitors.

 

[HTupolev]

Double image glitch I'm talking about is not frame repeat over two refresh. It's the visual effect produced by our brain at 30 hz games.

The brain doesn't produce double-image glitches. If you see double-images when you play 30fps games, it's probably due to a scree using a refresh pattern with significant dimming between each frame (i.e. a CRT). If your eyes are moving during a frame's display period, the two flashes of the frame will hit different parts of your eye, so you see two images.

The common alternative is to use a more stable sample-and-hold, which produces blur instead.

Actually the powerline style of aliasing is something you see really easily in gameplay. It doesn't look jaggy form the distance, rather it flickers on and off and pops in and out. It is really obvious from pretty much any distance.

Yep. Thin undersampled shimmer tends to be a very high-power alias. Specular aliasing can get particularly bad, in some games you could stand 50 feet from your TV and still see it totally clearly.

 

[family_guy]

I don't think so, no. Consoles do not exist in a vacuum and the core gamer market is not infinite.

The market that really cares that much about this would have gaming PCs and that market is extremely small compared to consoles.

 

[alexandros]

You know I don't really think it has any tangible impact on demographics. Last I heard those consoles sold well enough and PC gaming is not an option for console gamers at heart who don't find the PC environment "secure" enough I think, at least this is what I got from having a chat with some of my console die-hards acquaintances.

I don't think consoles are in danger because of their more modest specs. As long as they are supported by the biggest publishers out there there is nothing to worry regarding the console market.

Only time will tell. I do think that pushing out underpowered consoles was a big mistake.

 

[Dazza]

No, it's not bullshit. That's a direct feed screenshot.

That said, what you're getting at without actually realizing it is the factor of view distance and display type.

The type of display you use combined with the distance from which you sit can increase or decrease your perception of visual artifacts. I can admit that, from my normal viewing distance on a good plasma, the game looks better than those screenshots suggest. That has no bearing on what the system is actually outputting.

This is why image quality tends to be more important on the PC front - most people play PC games in front of an LCD monitor. Sitting that close to an LCD display is the most difficult of situations for managing good image quality, I've found. You need better anti-aliasing and higher resolutions to compensate for the viewing distance and display type.

As a reverse example try playing a game on a nice CRT PC monitor. You'll find that higher resolutions suddenly become less useful due to the nature of the display. 1024x768 with 4x MSAA on a CRT looks absolutely super smooth and clean. It's really quite striking, really, just how different it looks.

Still, when analyzing the visual output of a game one must place all platforms on a level playing field. Analyzing output from a system on a monitor against PC output is the only way to understand how they compare.

That said, in the case of BFH, the shimmering and sub-pixel artifacts visible on thin objects are bad to the point that you'd have to stand a good 20 feet away not to be bothered by them. :

*sob* please don't remind me that SED display technology got shelved

 

[Thrakier]

Wow, what a mess. How long do these consoles have to go? Till 2017? Longer? Was this the first console generation which was underpowered by that much? I know most were outdated pretty fast, but with that gen it feels like they were never...on date.

 

[deltacanuckian]

I love Visceral, I'm enjoying Battlefield 4 (though I just bought it, skipping all the launch issues) but man, I have less than zero interest in Hardline. This game was just a bad idea.

 

[MaLDo]

so if you play on PC...why exactly are you here discussing the Xbone and PS4 versions?...as for the framerate im not doing "damage control" at all...its the truth...a solid 30fps game will look IDENTICAL on a 60, 120, or 240hz TV...same with 60fps content...

obviously there is an inherent judder to 30fps images when compared to 60fps...but playing 30fps content on a display with a 30hz refresh rate wont look better because its "native" just like 60fps doesnt look better on a 60hz TV than it does on a 120hz or 240hz...

What? This DF versus compares three versions of the game. Check your facts.

When you look a sequence like this AABBAABB your brain try to trace two moving objects for every one. The one following AB pattern and the one following the AA pattern. Is easily visible.

 

[Chabbles]

Im watching some beta footage maxed out on PC, and i cant tell if its the engine becoming dated, or if its just this game that looks stale as fuck, visually/aesthetically, in its current beta state anyway. I remember being blown away with the first BF3 frostbite gameplay presentation they showed, im not sure that its the engine but maybe not enough time spent on adding more detail to the maps, shit looks sterilized or something..

 

[MaLDo]

The brain doesn't produce double-image glitches. If you see double-images when you play 30fps games, it's probably due to a scree using a refresh pattern with significant dimming between each frame (i.e. a CRT). If your eyes are moving during a frame's display period, the two flashes of the frame will hit different parts of your eye, so you see two images.

The common alternative is to use a more stable sample-and-hold, which produces blur instead.


Yep. Thin undersampled shimmer tends to be a very high-power alias. Specular aliasing can get particularly bad, in some games you could stand 50 feet from your TV and still see it totally clearly.

Replied before. It doesn't depend of the technology. It's inherent to half refreshrate images.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

So much negativity. Hopefully the game delivers, and all this is just bandwagon dogpiling bullshit mob mentality stuff.... Hoping.