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Analysis DF Direct: Xbox Series X First Party Games To Run On Xbox One - Is this a good thing?

DynamiteCop!

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100% correct. Sumo Digital created the 360 version off of the X1 version and did their best since FH was pretty new franchise and they wanted to give 360 users who might of purchased FH1 something rather than shafting them, that's clear as day. Playground Games/Turn 10 did the XboxOne version, which was obviously the main game, fully featured. Others beyond were X1 only.

What bugs me is that FH2 is the only one not "X-enhanced", so I hope down the line, it is, would look amazing in 4K.
Precisely, I don't know why that guy can't understand this, my only guess is his literary capability but it might just be trolling, not sure. Them not X enhancing it likely had to do with the timing because I'm pretty sure you're aware their music licenses had expired and they had to stop selling the game.
 
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ethomaz

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These games were designed and made for Xbox One with no thought towards running on older generation hardware.

It's literally spelled out right there. You can't spin this into anything. How do you get to these games were held back by that line?
Yet sometimes they showed compromisses like DF state... even with MS putting 2 dev teams to try to mitigate the compromises of the project.
 
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urmie

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Precisely, I don't know why that guy can't understand this, my only guess is his literary capability but it might just be trolling, not sure. Them not X enhancing it likely had to do with the timing because I'm pretty sure you're aware their music licenses had expired and they had to stop selling the game.
I don't try to think how others think, that's for moderators to figure out. I didn't need Eurogamer or Digital Foundry to tell me what I already know years ago when FH2 released. This isn't even debateable.
 

Nikana

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Yet sometimes they showed compromisses like DF state... even with MS putting 2 dev teams to try to mitigate the compromises of the project.
You didn't answer my question. At all.

They showed how the 360 was different than the Xbox one. There is ZERO footage of them showing how the Xbox one altered anything to make the 360 version possible.
 

Memorabilia

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You guys have some literacy issues, take it in line by line with proper separation.




  • These games were designed and made for Xbox One with no thought towards running on older generation hardware


  • It was left to talented external teams to fashion these impressive downports. (RotTR, FH2, Titanfall for 360)
  • Sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly. (of said downport)

  • Sumo Digital's port of Forza Horizon 2 is a lovely Xbox 360 game but it's lacking a lot of the Xbox One version's content

What he's saying is clear as day, you'd have to be intentionally misunderstanding what's being said or have poor literacy with English to get confused. The Xbox One games were built for the Xbox One flat out, next-gen games. Third parties took those next-gen games and reworked the hell out of them to get them running on the 360.
I own both versions of FH2 and from an end-user perspective this is absolutely correct. It seems people are misinterpreting (whether it's willful or not is another matter).
 

OneShotThrill

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I think it's smart to have a short transitional period if they can effectively pull it off. As they've shown previously with their own games and games they've directly backed it's not a developmental problem. They have plenty of capital and there's plenty of resources both internally and externally to tackle these tasks.

There's ways to navigate it that result in what you would expect on a next-gen console and also give the people with lesser hardware who simply can't transition yet an opportunity to play a modified take on that next-gen experience.
I agree with your take on the games themselves. They wont suffer...they will for sure be downgraded for softer hardware. I just dont think this is the best strategy to move console units. Ms is trying something new here. We will have to see. The xone and one x ports will be fine tho
 
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ethomaz

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You didn't answer my question. At all.

They showed how the 360 was different than the Xbox one. There is ZERO footage of them showing how the Xbox one altered anything to make the 360 version possible.
I replied but you keep ignoring... you can start to read the thread again maybe you find enlightenment.
 
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NickFire

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Yes, why would it be different? Games that run on the X have to run on the S.
Perception. I'd personally like to believe that whatever box I pay $400-$500 for, will be running games that are not possible on machines that struggled to hit 1080P in November 2013.
 

Omeggos

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Perception. I'd personally like to believe that whatever box I pay $400-$500 for, will be running games that are not possible on machines that struggled to hit 1080P in November 2013.
Running on the same type of architecture would alleviate some of the frustrations. By this point its barely different than customizing a game with highest (in this case the SX) and low (the One S) specs just like a pc.
 

01011001

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Since Microsoft is aiming to deliver at least 60fps on Series X with a potential 120fps for some games, I have no issue in believing they can downport these games at 30fps, reduced settings and a dynamic 1080p or 900p on base Xbox One.

that's exactly those games we also saw really fast being ported to Switch, games that ran at 60fps on base Xbox One. half the framerate, reduce settings and reduce the resolution... that alone goes a long way to make the transition possible.

let's say that Halo Infinite is optimised to have a 120fps mode, a 30fps Xbox One version doesn't seem so far fetched does it?
that's obviously just an example, I'm pretty sure Halo will target 60fps even on base Xbox One since it was most likely targeted at that hardware.
 
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MayauMiao

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If XSeX games allows me to game one XOne then there would be less reason to buy XSeX on day 1. Its like buying a new console for the sake of backward compatible.
 

Gargus

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Its neither good nor bad to me, I'm not buying a new xbox. Xbox one s is going to be the last xbox I own and I dont anticipate really using it again since most of the few xbox exclusives I want to play I can play on my pc.
 

ethomaz

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Running on the same type of architecture would alleviate some of the frustrations. By this point its barely different than customizing a game with highest (in this case the SX) and low (the One S) specs just like a pc.
To be fair PC target a minimum specification to not be hold by too much older hardware.

Each new year they increase the minimum target so that way they are slowing moving ahead the gaming development.

Excption was Crysis when Crytek moved too much the minimum to reach new heights in graphic quality and that paid off for years with games not reaching what Crysis did.

You can say Crysis was probably a big push ahead in PC gaming development... something a new gen of consoles is expected to do.

BTW these that plays PC games the minimum specification today are below or ahead Xbox One specs? Because XB1 will probably pause or slow down a lot the minimum for some years.
 
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hunthunt

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Its a good move.

They released zero good exclusives in like 5 years for their main console, give these people something exclusive to play at least for some time. 😆
 

Omeggos

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To be fair PC target a minimum specification to not be hold by too much older hardware.

Each new year they increase the minimum target so that way they are slowing moving ahead the gaming development.

Excption was Crysis when Crytek moved too much the minimum to reach new heights in graphic quality and that paid off for years with games not reaching what Crysis did.

You can say Crysis was probably a big push ahead in PC gaming development... something a new gen of consoles is expected to do.

BTW these that plays PC games the minimum specification today are below or ahead Xbox One specs? Because XB1 will probably pause or slow down a lot the minimum for some years.
While true, and to add, while modern games are definitely designed around cards like 1080-2080Ti, a lot these games can still run (albeit at significantly lower resolutions and settings) on older cards like the 760.
 

Dory16

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The One X is only a few years old, it would be unfair to tell people who spent 450£ for it just 2 years ago that games are coming out THIS year that they can't play. This was a predictable side effect of having mid-gen refreshes.
They have to account for the X and decided to drag the S in because you might as well, since they are all connected to game pass.
The games that solely focus on the Series X are the 5 year development time type of games. Bear in mind that the final specs of the Series X are still not ready as we speak (there was just news today about the SSD supplier that they might be using). So the notion that we could have seen a game at launch "solely designed with the Series X hardware in mind" is simply irrational. It would have been a game that only runs on the Series X, nothing else.
 
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WorldHero

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I'm split on this. I love my Xbox One X, but also love new hardware. It will be very interesting to see the differences between One X and Series X games.
 

Gashtronomy

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Last year Microsoft said it was only the X that would be 'forward' compatible, or words to that effect.

I do not expect the base Xbone or XboneS to be forward compatible. That way, MS can push X sales and XSX sales, while distancing themselves from the base Xbone.

I imagine the X could run next gen games at 1080p/30fps, for at least the first 12 months after launch.
 

DrNeroCF

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This is the first generation that's made up of mostly the same hardware as the last. Series X will still run on whatever cut down version of Direct X Xbone uses... Anything running 4k60 on Series should run 1080p on XBX, don't know about the original One though.

Would prevent the use of anything more CPU heavy, destruction, physics... but I'd be surprised if that stuff is improved significantly for next gen anyway.
 
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Xbox Series X games are NOT going to run on Xbox One. The entire basis of this thread is built on a lie.

The Xboxd Series X games are going to be released one year after Xbox Series X launches. That's all it is. Pretending that Xbox series X games are able to run on Xbox One is insane, unless MS actually extend the compatible period for the lifetime of Xbox Series X.

Seriously, 12 months of delay is all it was. Congratulations for everyone falling for the silly marketing tactic of selling a bad news.
 
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CrisPy2019

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If switch can run Doom and Xbox one X can.

Or if 3DS can run Hyrule Warriors and WiiU can.

I wouldn't worry about games not working on XBO or holding back the XSX.

4k60Ultra super fast loading
vs
1080p60 medium or 720p60 low slow loading.
And all games should automatically work.

And if needed then make the base XBO version run at 600p30.
Make it basically like Switch playing Doom/Wolfenstein today.

Works. Not elegant but works.
 
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DaMonsta

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Can’t wait to see the amazing unprecedented “next gen” things Sony games are doing, that no other games are, when these things launch.
 
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The people who will buy Xbox exclusives will buy them regardless of this, and those who won’t buy them likely never had any intention.
I agree with everything else you said.

But, this is a gem of a statement, I don't think many people go about their day thinking, oh this game would seem interesting.... but MS published is so I'll just pretend it's bad. If they publish real gems people will take notice and do what they can to get them, obviously there are these 1 system people who either don't have the time or money to get more than one console per generation so obviously these people think they got the right one (they picked the one they prefer)... These same people will buy the machine with the most buzz whenever they make their purchase, publicity, media and their geek friend give them the current vibe of the industry.

Otherwise how would anyone beyond Atari would have made money in video gaming? How would the 360 have happened? How could Sony have entered the market at all when Sega and Nintendo released consoles in the same generation as their first console?

There is serious merit in succeeding in this industry, doing it repeatedly is even more impressive.

MS would not release a new consoles if they saw things the way you do, they would say, well no matter what we do we will never sell more than 80 million consoles in a generation, we have better things to do with our money.
 

SlimySnake

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Good on john to put this in perspective. its an absolutely shocking move by MS that deserves to get called out by game critics, journalists and game enthusiasts everywhere.

no matter which way you spin it, their games are going to be held back by current gen hardware and its going to show. it showed at E3 when they revealed halo infinite looking pretty current gen and it really showed when they showed hellblade 2 which is clearly next gen. if you dont see the difference, bless your heart.

but the rest of us, for the rest of the gaming community that looks up to first party publishers to take risks when third party publishers wont at launch, this is going to be a disappointment worse than sony cancelling their e3 conferences. it will affect everyone's gaming experience. it will delay the move to next gen adoption. and it will make xbox series x gamers absolutely miserable when they see other next gen only games on other platforms.

the jump to next gen is going to be much bigger than current gen thanks to the ssd and the cpu. we will find out soon enough when sony reveals their next gen lineup. but i suspect some still wont understand the sheer gap between ms and sony games until they see those cross gen games in action.

i think its a bone headed business move. ms is trying to chase the psn crowd. selling gamepass is fun, but getting a 30% cut from every digital game sale and $60 per xbl user is much more lucrative. i highly doubt their accountants and sales guys told them this would be a sound strategy to make profit. they are doing this because they didnt plan ahead and did not acquire studios fast enough. they needed to start dev on next gen games by the end of the 2017 to have games ready for the launch window. but they didnt acquire any of their new studios until 2018. and by then everyone of these studios were already working on games set to release in 2019 and 2020.

im pretty sure they know this and will have a bunch of next gen only trailers at their reveal. they have already done this with the hellblade 2 trailer. im guessing fable 4 teaser should be there. whatever rare is working on is likely next gen as well. there is no way they show up with only cross gen games at their reveal conference. no way.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Good on john to put this in perspective. its an absolutely shocking move by MS that deserves to get called out by game critics, journalists and game enthusiasts everywhere.

no matter which way you spin it, their games are going to be held back by current gen hardware and its going to show. it showed at E3 when they revealed halo infinite looking pretty current gen and it really showed when they showed hellblade 2 which is clearly next gen. if you dont see the difference, bless your heart.

but the rest of us, for the rest of the gaming community that looks up to first party publishers to take risks when third party publishers wont at launch, this is going to be a disappointment worse than sony cancelling their e3 conferences. it will affect everyone's gaming experience. it will delay the move to next gen adoption. and it will make xbox series x gamers absolutely miserable when they see other next gen only games on other platforms.

the jump to next gen is going to be much bigger than current gen thanks to the ssd and the cpu. we will find out soon enough when sony reveals their next gen lineup. but i suspect some still wont understand the sheer gap between ms and sony games until they see those cross gen games in action.
Basically this whole section of your post is hyperbole and rendered false by actual evidence of Microsoft involved Xbox One to 360 conversions.

The base games from Xbox One arrived in an uncompromised next-gen state on Xbox One and were retrofitted from those builds for an Xbox 360 conversion.

I don't know what it is with you guys but you seem to make a concerted effort to trip over basically everything you say because you don't bother to do even the slightest bit of research.

P.S.

Trying to introduce Halo Infinite into the equation is stupid from the onset as some comparison to Hellblade 2 because it was not only originally announced just for the Xbox One, but also because of the context of what was presented, and because Halo Infinite could be operating at 60-120 FPS on Series X.
 
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Shmunter

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It’s only good for people that wish to continue playing the latest games on their last gen console.

Not good for game evolution, limiting the scope for next gen adopters, including Sony (and PC) if 3rd parties follow MS lead.

MS better not be mandating all Xbox games must work on Xbox VCR edition otherwise Sony will get the same 3rd party software from the last decade. I would be mighty displeased.

We shall soon know if boxart just carries Xbox as the master banner and whether Sony clearly displays PS5 on their’s, including for 3rd party games.

This is a very perilous time, and MS seems to be standing in the way of everything I look forward to. Even TV, TV, TV was nothing compared to this.
 
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Heinrich

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Lol if it would be the other way around the reaction would be way different:

„that’s great Sony! Thanks for supporting the PS4 longer and thanks for supporting your loyal user!“

„typical M$! Can’t wait to start the new gen and fuck their userbase over! M$ just recently released the One X and now I can’t get new games? Fuck M$!“

AS I see it. It does not matter. The first year we don’t see true nextgen games anyway. And it will ONLY FOR THE FIRST year where the base Xbox has to be supported. NOT TWO YEARS, Only for the FIRST YEAR after launch of the seriesX. ONE YEAR.
 
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ghairat

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Lame IMO. Why would developers be designing the game based on old hardware?? And usually, the original developers aren't the ones developing the game for older hardware vs new hardware.
 

nikolino840

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If XSeX games allows me to game one XOne then there would be less reason to buy XSeX on day 1. Its like buying a new console for the sake of backward compatible.
Well...Is like trying to convince someone to upgrade from a 1070 to 2080rtx
 

stranno

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BC? Check.
It's only a shock because SONY didn't give it the last two generations.
PlayStation 2 emulator on PlayStation 4 was really good, quite an improvement over Playstation 3's ps2_emu and ps2_netemu. But yeah, other than that they don't even delivered a Playstation emulator. And I wouldn't even call an emulator the Japan Studios compatibility layer for Playstation Portable Remasters. Not to mention PlayStation 3..
 

dark10x

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Honestly John seems all pissy in this video just like he is on Twitter, rattled by emotion while not actually knowing that much about the processes and what can be done. Then you have Richard who is being calm and citing what I have been repeatedly here about the ways in which games could still target the top end in full but be scaled back for operation on lesser hardware.

This is actually kind of hilarious.
I know a lot about the processes BUT I was also jet jagged and sick which made it not so fun.

...but I'm definitely not an expert here. It's just random off the cuff discussion. Nothing too special. Hopefully I'm 100% wrong on everything.

*sigh*

Yet again... one more time...

Third parties... are free... to do... whatever they want.

Want the full spec of the SX and not release for older hardware? Go for it. Want it to run on everything? Be their guest.

So, let’s say jt from the top, one more time...

THIRD PARTIES CAN RELEASE GAMES “JUST” ON SERIES X.
Exactly. I don't think we ever said otherwise. It's obviously about first party only.
 
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o'dium

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Exactly. I don't think we ever said otherwise. It's obviously about first party only.

Wasn’t aimed at you John, don’t worry. You have a point as usual, and a right to be a bit miffed. I still am a bit. Just a little bit fed up of people acting like it’s the end of days, when to be fair, we have all been here done this before.
 

UnNamed

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Difference between XSX and XB1X is big but not huge, it's not like PS4 vs Switch. But in terms of CPU could be a problem, think of Assassins Creed Unity which required a lot of CPU power on current gen console. With XSX in mind, it would be easier to convert a game to XB1X reducing effects, objects on screen, resolution, etc. Speaking of XBOX ONE S, I belive the only compatibility will be through Project Cloud.
 

dark10x

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Difference between XSX and XB1X is big but not huge, it's not like PS4 vs Switch. But in terms of CPU could be a problem, think of Assassins Creed Unity which required a lot of CPU power on current gen console. With XSX in mind, it would be easier to convert a game to XB1X reducing effects, objects on screen, resolution, etc. Speaking of XBOX ONE S, I belive the only compatibility will be through Project Cloud.
I dunno, I think the difference is MUCH greater than PS4 vs Switch. The Jaguar CPU is really so poor and the storage so much slower. We've been limited by CPU speed for a very long time.
 
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General Lee

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And usually, the original developers aren't the ones developing the game for older hardware vs new hardware.
That was because previous gens had different architecture that required much more effort to do a port. This gen transition entices publishers to sell games that can be easily sold on both generations with just minor tweaks in graphics settings by the original dev team. Essentially the first few years of the upcoming generation is going to be just XSX and PS5 having games with some combination of higher res, higher lod, higher fps and maybe with some effects like reflections replaced with ray-traced equivalents. The games will still be otherwise designed around Jaguar limitations, so only the visuals are next gen, but nothing else. If design teams start building games next gen first and then want to make a port for old gen, they'll quickly realize it's not happening without compromising one or the other, and once money comes into the equation, publishers will insist that superficial "ray-traced visuals" are enough to sell "next gen", and devs are forced to design to old gen limitations primarily.

Third party certainly won't be doing any risky exclusives, other than maybe few indies trying out a low budget gimmick game to differentiate themselves. It's the job of the first party studios to push next gen, but MS's stance seems to be that XSX doesn't need such things, and that the superficial updates will be enough to sell their new console for the first year or two. This could be a huge mistake if Sony makes any compelling exclusives instead.

I do get where MS is coming from with this strategy. In reality, launch year exclusives are often not that special, and these days making a truly next gen experience is not going to be easy to fit into a launch year window. Personally I think they should still try to showcase what can't be done on previous gen, otherwise the selling points of the new console are pretty lackluster. I think there would be room for more experimental smaller games that couldn't be done on previous gen, but MS seems to still be lacking the studios to do such a thing, so they'd have to essentially pay smaller third parties to come up with such stuff, but that is not very feasible when we are talking about launch window titles.

In any case, I think MS and Sony have been rather lackluster with their first party ambitions. It feels like they're trying to make safe boring sequels that sell well, essentially the same thing that big third parties do. There's very little experimentation or pushing of new ideas, which is what I feel first party should be doing. Instead, it's just "let's make yet another third person cinematic action adventure" that's like the fast food burger everyone knows what it's about, with nothing truly surprising about it, just dressed up slightly prettier than before. It kinda misses the point of gaming vs. movies. They're not making better games, they're making games look more like movies while the actual gameplay doesn't evolve much at all.
 
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Orpheum

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So what? Sony is going the same route i think. As long as the games are made with next gen hardware in mind and scaled down for current gen, i don't see an issue.

It was the exact same thing with the previous transition into this gen, why would it be different.
 

icerock

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Genuinely curious as to hear why so many think developers scale down their games rather than scale up. Some of the premier devs in the industry design their games (such as GoW, Death Stranding, TLOUII) around base hardware (PS4) rather than Pro. Keep in mind, when it comes to CPU, GPU, Storage etc. these two SKUs are much closer than the next-gen consoles.

Why would they do that when they can leverage extra from a more powerful SKU? Answer is quite obvious, largest demographic game on the base model and they don't want to hamper their experience by giving preference to those with the higher-end model. This would also apply to all those first party MS studios who are designing these cross-gen games, yes these consoles are sharing the same architecture (so did PS4 and PS4 Pro) but the compute power available on next-gen Xboxs' is leagues apart to Xbox One family. They can't design their game around the Series X, and then cut down heavily to somehow make it run on Xbox One. Why? Because they wouldn't want to compromise the experience of what would be majority demographic of these games.

That is the core reason why many games scorn at the idea of cross-gen games, devs don't cater to the minority new-console owners at the beginning.
 

Grinchy

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Once again, a misleading headline.

It should be "Xbox Scarlet games are behind schedule by one year, is it a good thing?
This is the clear and simple truth that so many people are trying so hard to spin in some kind of positive light. Once MS manages to finally release actual next-gen software 12 or more months after launching their next-gen console, they will be "leaving Xbone users in the dust" just like "evil Sony who doesn't care about their customers."
 
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