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DF - Lego Builder's Journey: Ray Tracing Showcase Hits PS5 - PC /Xbox Series X/S

winjer

Member

Consoles use FSR, with very good results
PS5 and Series X uses resolution of 2954x1662
Series S uses resolution of 1970x1108
30 fps with RT enabled. RT only on PS5.
Raytraced Ambient Occlusion on consoles is equivalent to Low on PC
Raytraced reflections on consoles use similar level to Low on PC. But PS5 version might have a bug with fog rendering, that occludes some of the reflections
Excellent frame pace on PS5 and Series X, both on RT mode and 60 FPS mode. No drops of frame rate.
Series S has performance drops to the mid 50s in the 60 FPS mode.
 
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"Raytraced Ambient Occlusion on consoles is equivalent to Low on PC"

Ouch. AMD RT performance strikes again?
You got to pay pretty much the price of the entire console just for a RTX 3060, what did you expect? They are going to have their limitations but so far they have produced very impressive results and that is all that matters.

Now that we got to see Spider-man with RT going way above 60fps with VRR it's pretty clear how capable these consoles can be if the dev know what it's doing.

What is the most impressive use of RT on PC so far?
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
"Raytraced Ambient Occlusion on consoles is equivalent to Low on PC"

Ouch. AMD RT performance strikes again?
HDRP + Raytracing is just pretty brutal on hardware specially as you go up resolution.
An RTX 3080 maxed out will fail to hit 60fps at 1440p.
 

Darsxx82

Member
So the Xbox consoles just straight up don't have ray tracing?
In the same video DF says that the Studio informed them that a patch for XSeries will come later...... "when the Unity engine adds support for RT on Xbox consoles"

What is surprising is that at this point it has not yet been updated. Probably the fault of MS that seems to be more focused on optimization for UE5.
But If you add the fact that on PS5 the RT does not seem to work correctly either and will need a patch, then more reasonable if they have parked RT for XSX for later.

PS. This Lego look great.
 
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In the same video DF says that the Studio informed them that a patch for XSeries will come later...... "when the Unity engine adds support for RT on Xbox consoles"

What is surprising is that at this point it has not yet been updated. Probably the fault of MS that seems to be more focused on optimization for UE5. Which would not be less unacceptable.

PS. This Lego look great.
Once they sort out the tools, they'll patch in RT support. Nothing unusual.

HDRP + Raytracing is just pretty brutal on hardware specially as you go up resolution.
An RTX 3080 maxed out will fail to hit 60fps at 1440p.
Reality is a lot less impressive than the wild claims of the average PC owner that owns a RTX 3080. You would think that they would be playing it a 4K native 60 fps before talking down on $400~$500 consoles, but just look at that 19 fps, brutal.
 
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rodrigolfp

Member
You got to pay pretty much the price of the entire console just for a RTX 3060, what did you expect? They are going to have their limitations but so far they have produced very impressive results and that is all that matters.

Now that we got to see Spider-man with RT going way above 60fps with VRR it's pretty clear how capable these consoles can be if the dev know what it's doing.

What is the most impressive use of RT on PC so far?
I did expect nothing, that why it was a question.

Spiderman, afaik, have only RT reflections.

I think it's Marble RTX.
 
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winjer

Member
"Raytraced Ambient Occlusion on consoles is equivalent to Low on PC"

Ouch. AMD RT performance strikes again?

There are no free lunches. The SoC on the PC5 needs room, for more than just the GPU.
The RT cores in Turing, for example, use around 10% of die space.
So if these consoles had RT units similar to nVidia, they would probably end-up with a 9 TFLOps PS5.
RDNA2 has ray-testing and ray-intersection units, just like Turing and Ampere. The difference is that nVidia also has units to accelerate BVH traversal.
On a console like the PS5, with low level API's it might be possible to implement custom BVH structures, per game, made by the developer.
This might help bridge the gap a bit.
 

Hugare

Member
Console games pretty much always lacking RT Global Ilumination is so annoying (Dying Light 2, Cyberpunk, Control and etc.)

It's such a transformative feature that I just cant play those games without it. Bought Cyberpunk and DL 2 on the PS5, but started over on PC because of it

From what I'm seeing, I'll have to buy RT intensive games on PC and others on PS5 for the whole duration of the generation

Was expecting FSR to make a difference for consoles, but it seems that it wont be the case

Or give an option for Full HD + all the RT features. Fuck resolution, gimme all those shinny graphics
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Is this with Low AO and Low reflections?
High settings.
Comparatively the game isnt exactly geo or effects heavy.
Which almost certainly is showing the weakness in HDRP+ RT.
Near no games use HDRP let alone HDRP and RT.
Its not cuz devs dont know it exists likely just the hardware cost is super high.
 

assurdum

Member
A
He seems really upset that the RT isn't on Xbox. He spends most of the time at shitting on the PS5 RT implementation.
What impress me more about ps5 hardware it's how incredibly balanced is it. You expect a console with 52CUs literally destroy a 36CUs one when the raytracing is used indeed some developer seems still find more easy to use it on ps5. Literally unexpected to me.
 
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Darsxx82

Member
He seems really upset that the RT isn't on Xbox. He spends most of the time at shitting on the PS5 RT implementation.
RT on PS5 is not working properly and of course he has to show it..... That the XSeries version does not have RT is a relevant fact and it does the right thing when they ask the Studio about its absence.
I don't know, maybe it would have been more normal for you to speculate and say that maybe XSX is not capable of RT? How did someone here in the case of Little Nightmare 2? LOL

The hatred that some of you have for DF is very close to being a religion🤔
 
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assurdum

Member
He shouldn't because it isn't the hardware that's stopping it from getting RT. My guess it's something on the devs end because we have seen RT work with other titles.
I mean it's not the first time that happened though. Probably introduce raytracing with the ps5 tools is easier.
 
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Synless

Member
You got to pay pretty much the price of the entire console just for a RTX 3060, what did you expect? They are going to have their limitations but so far they have produced very impressive results and that is all that matters.

Now that we got to see Spider-man with RT going way above 60fps with VRR it's pretty clear how capable these consoles can be if the dev know what it's doing.

What is the most impressive use of RT on PC so far?
I don’t own a PC, but from what I could see it is Cyberpunk.
 
I don’t own a PC, but from what I could see it is Cyberpunk.
Yep and that says it all.

What's even more funny is that even the people that have the most expensive cards probably disable it because of the performance hit. That is, assuming that they are still playing the handful of games that have any significant use of RT like Control, Cyberpunk or Metro, they must be getting pretty old at this point.

At the end of the day no matter how much money you spend on hardware, bug budget games will still be made with consoles in mind and at most you'll be getting better performance and slightly better details and that's it. Devs aren't going to waste their time with something that most people won't use.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I mean it's not the first time that happened though. Probably introduce raytracing with the ps5 tools is easier.
What impress me more about ps5 hardware it's how incredibly balanced is it. You expect a console with 52CUs literally destroy a 36CUs one when the raytracing is used indeed some developer seems still find more easy to use it on ps5. Literally unexpected to me.

Unitys HDRP RT implementation is behind on consoles.
Very little to do with the actual Xbox itself and more to do with Unitys dev team.
If they ported to Xbox well before the console RT implementation was in engine they basically had no choice but to port without RT.
 

assurdum

Member
Unitys HDRP RT implementation is behind on consoles.
Very little to do with the actual Xbox itself and more to do with Unitys dev team.
If they ported to Xbox well before the console RT implementation was in engine they basically had no choice but to port without RT.
I don't follow you. Why they should have ported the game well before the console raytracing on Xbox and later on playstation hardware?
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I don't follow you. Why they should have ported the game well before the console raytracing on Xbox but not on playstation hardware?
You do know this game came out on Xbox last year.
It only came out on PS5 this month.

For whatever reason they would have started work with an older build of Unity when they were porting to Xbox, which is why they need to patch the Xbox version to include RT.

There are a number of examples of devs using the latest builds of an engine for later ports....PS5 getting a port later is extra time and having the latest build of Unity.
 
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assurdum

Member
You do know this game came out on Xbox last year.
It only came out on PS5 this month.

For whatever reason they would have started work with an older build of Unity when they were porting to Xbox, which is why they need to patch the Xbox version to include RT.
Ok. However XSX was released like...two years ago? And Medium had raytracing at launch on it. The fact they haven't updated it yet this game on XSX make me think it was easier on ps5. From what I remember it happened something similar with Little Nightmare 2.
 
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Hugare

Member
This look like a glorified tech demo for ray tracing more than a puzzle game to me
76 MC score

Better than many 1st party titles in terms of critical acclaim


Seem like the main criticism is its short lenght, but its pretty fun
 

Darsxx82

Member
Ok. However XSX was released like...two years ago? The fact they haven't updated it yet the game on XSX make me think it was easier on ps5? From what I remember it happened something similar with Little Nightmare 2.
No, nothing similar to LN2. In LN2 was a bug and was resolved within the next week. In fact the update that removed the bug did not produce a penalty in framerate or resolution in XSX.

in this case it certainly seem it is a circumstance of the graphic engine not updated in XSeries that makes the developer's work difficult. The fact that it doesn't work properly on PS5 tells you how premature the implementation of RT is in Unity on console.
 
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assurdum

Member
No, nothing similar to LN2. In LN2 was a bug and was resolved within the next week. In fact the update that removed the bug did not produce a penalty in framerate or resolution in XSX.

In this case it is a circumstance of the graphic engine not updated in XSeries that makes the developer's work difficult. The fact that it doesn't work properly on PS5 tells you how premature the implementation of RT is in Unity on console.
It take more than a week. Post edited.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Ok. However XSX was released like...two years ago? The fact they haven't updated it yet the game on XSX make me think it was easier on ps5? From what I remember it happened something similar with Little Nightmare 2.
Little Nightmares 2 was an Unreal Engine 4 game.
We have already seen small developers use UE4 with RT....the devs fixed that in two seconds.
Likely down to having a unified development environment....one ini setting wrong and the XSX/XSS/XB1 could all have a setting thats supposed to be on XSX off.

Unitys HDRP and RT console support has been pretty slow, the Xbox build coming earlier would be an older Unity build.
Why did they NOT patch it yet?
Thats absolutely impossible to know unless they tell us.
 

GermanZepp

Member
I thought this was a building game not a puzzle one. What a wasted opportunity. I would love to build dioramas or stufff like that in this engine
 

assurdum

Member
Little Nightmares 2 was an Unreal Engine 4 game.
We have already seen small developers use UE4 with RT....the devs fixed that in two seconds.
Likely down to having a unified development environment....one ini setting wrong and the XSX/XSS/XB1 could all have a setting thats supposed to be on XSX off.

Unitys HDRP and RT console support has been pretty slow, the Xbox build coming earlier would be an older Unity build.
Why did they NOT patch it yet?
Thats absolutely impossible to know unless they tell us.
Forgive me what make you think ps5 access to the raytracing via Unity in this game?
 
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Almost useless comparison, one console has broken RT, the other doesn't have RT at all. Should've waited for patch.
DF doesn't control when the game comes out. They made their analysis for the PS5 now because it was released now.

If they were going to operate by the logic of waiting for patches then they wouldn't have reviewed anything because the PS5 had VRR as an upcoming feature since the beginning of the gen and plenty of game that now have VRR on PS5 were reviewed when it wasn't available.
 
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