Davey Cakes
Member
For the record, I totally believed you.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DF: Zelda Breath of the Wild "Wii U" Vs. "Switch"
- Thread starter TheZink
- Start date
Diablohead
Member
Fast rmx is 1080p but I can't say for bomberman.
It would be nice if there was an option to keep 720p when docked but I guess nintendo want to make the switch look better then another Wii u so they will keep the docked 900p no matter what.
The "first" village is kind of messy since it the game slow down a bit and only in certain sections but is not as bad as Blighttown (Dark Souls) or Havana (Assassins' Creed IV on PS3)
Beyond that the game is pure bliss on the open world but I have not reached an area full of foliage like the jungle from the Game Awards show.
Beyond that the game is pure bliss on the open world but I have not reached an area full of foliage like the jungle from the Game Awards show.
Kakariko village
Was fine for me too on docked Switch.
I don't know if "superior" is the right expectation to have, but i think that expecting it to run as well docked as it does undocked is perfectly reasonable. This is how i see it:
(from yesterday)
It not running in docked mode as well as in handheld mode is more that enough to call it disappointing.
It goes against the very concept of the switch. Nintendo sells it as an hybrid that allows you to seamlessly transion from the tv to the switch sreen, and back to the tv, and you're paying for that (300$/330€, definitely not the price of a "handheld").
Nintendo doesn't need to directly say "i promise, games are going to run the same one way or the other". When you see an ad where someone is playing on the tv, then suddenly picks up the switch and continues playing on the go, people are naturally going to assume that you're going to be playing the same game, running as it was running before changing modes (gameplay at least, and that includes the framerate). Isn't that part of what that scene is implying?
- "You see, if you have to go, you can continue playing, same as you were doing just now on the tv, but on the switch!" tv -> switch
(this being a framerate upgrade right now)
or the other way around
- "you're already home? enjoy the same game you were playing (on the switch) just now, but on the tv!" switch -> tv
(this being a framerate downgrade righ now)
I would certainly expect to have the same experience (in both modes) at he very least. You can't tell me that the system is super versatile and then add "but for best results, use it this way".
I'm in some parts of the game on Switch now where it's dropping consistently and staying there pretty much for the duration of certain fights (and not in fights, but it gets way more frustrating during fights).
It's borderline unplayable in those situations. I dunno how these issues were brushed aside so casually in the reviews.
It's borderline unplayable in those situations. I dunno how these issues were brushed aside so casually in the reviews.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah I'm pretty shocked to hear the Switch dock mode is similar to the Wii U. The Wii U is just awful for me. It's a shame to hear the switch isn't really an improvement on the TV at least. This game really deserves better
Interesting. Does this mean it can potentially not have added input lag with respect to the original hardware?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I am surprised they didn't up the texture resolution a lot on Switch. Doesn't it have far more RAM than Wii U?
Also, I think they should have left the 'performance' option in the game for the docked mode, so that it would just run at 720p at a solid 30FPS.
Also, I think they should have left the 'performance' option in the game for the docked mode, so that it would just run at 720p at a solid 30FPS.
LoveCake
Member
I have the WiiU version on the way and I am glad I stuck with my WiiU, there seems to be pretty bad issues on both WiiU and Switch versions in different areas I admit, but it's not perfect on Switch so there is little point in getting a Switch with the costs involved, I think in pushing for a Switch version and adding in elements for the higher power but porting from WiiU code has impacted both versions and made both worse than they could have been, if built only for WiiU then the WiiU version would be better and if built only for Switch it would run better.
My main concern (going off topic) is Nintendo seemingly had nothing else to launch with the Switch, and is this launch game already pushing the Switches limits? I doubt that it is, but it is a valid question I think.
:/
My main concern (going off topic) is Nintendo seemingly had nothing else to launch with the Switch, and is this launch game already pushing the Switches limits? I doubt that it is, but it is a valid question I think.
:/
darkazcura
Member
Zelda Switch looks amazing on my B6.
The only thing I can't figure out is how to set the black level properly, lol. Setting the TV to 'high' black level and then the Switch to limited RGB actually makes the game look pretty good even though it should be crushing blacks lol. I gave up and set the TV to 'low' black level and the Switch to automatic. Looks kinda washed out at times, but it's still awesome looking.
They definitely made the Wii U version worse. It's so clear that the game was designed with the Gamepad (i.e. Sheikah Slate) in mind and yet they stripped all functionality away for the Switch version to compare favorably.
killatopak
Member
DJ Lushious
Member
This has happened to me a few times on the docked version of Switch Zelda.
Damn, that's poor. Particularly when you consider there is a generation difference between the two consoles. The sad thing is that Zelda is one of Nintendo's premium products and you should really expect Nintendo to be able to work a generational difference between their two consoles.
DeuceGamer
Member
Good to know that the Wii U version is comparable outside of the lower resolution.
I find the best experience for me is Switch docked. I have encountered a few drops, and while they can be a bit jarring and distracting, they really haven't been that frequent at all for me. Maybe that changes later on but for now it's not negatively impacted my overall view of the game.
I think people should remember that these videos are obviously focusing on the trouble areas, and rightly so. The drops aren't constant but it does seem like Nintendo could do something to fix them on the Switch since most of the drops I've encountered occur in the same area's and are at times when there isn't much occurring on the screen. I may be wrong, and I'm sure someone will point it out, but it seems like something that could be addressed somehow.
I find the best experience for me is Switch docked. I have encountered a few drops, and while they can be a bit jarring and distracting, they really haven't been that frequent at all for me. Maybe that changes later on but for now it's not negatively impacted my overall view of the game.
I think people should remember that these videos are obviously focusing on the trouble areas, and rightly so. The drops aren't constant but it does seem like Nintendo could do something to fix them on the Switch since most of the drops I've encountered occur in the same area's and are at times when there isn't much occurring on the screen. I may be wrong, and I'm sure someone will point it out, but it seems like something that could be addressed somehow.
Ah we're discussing it here...
Summary of this analysis (which isn't all that detailed with the areas covered and early on, but they'll have more):
*To expand - the video shows the WiiU staying at 20fps as they descend from the first hill you see in the game for a few seconds, while Switch stays at 30fps, as Link keeps going and runs into enemies to attack, Switch stays at 20fps for a few seconds and WiiU is at 30.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have many more of you noticed that playing on the gamepad only seems to mask performance issues? It looks and runs great for the most part on the gamepad for me and someone else mentioned the same. Not sure if it's dropping resolution internally or if the gamepad hides it will. I'm playing the digital version installed to internal memory.
Maybe it's the v-sync? Maybe placebo.
Summary of this analysis (which isn't all that detailed with the areas covered and early on, but they'll have more):
- 720p vs 900p (they're comparing the tv performance of both - undocked switch runs better and at 720fps)
- Improved audio on Switch is hard to discern, even with headphones
- Better texture filtering on Switch, every other effect is identical
- Docked mode and WiiU performance is similar: just in different areas on the Great Plateau* (which is only what was tested here - both have the drops to 20fps, especially when approaching a new area quickly
*To expand - the video shows the WiiU staying at 20fps as they descend from the first hill you see in the game for a few seconds, while Switch stays at 30fps, as Link keeps going and runs into enemies to attack, Switch stays at 20fps for a few seconds and WiiU is at 30.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have many more of you noticed that playing on the gamepad only seems to mask performance issues? It looks and runs great for the most part on the gamepad for me and someone else mentioned the same. Not sure if it's dropping resolution internally or if the gamepad hides it will. I'm playing the digital version installed to internal memory.
Maybe it's the v-sync? Maybe placebo.
Xdrive05
Member
Interesting theory they put forth that it might be streaming-related with the world loading being partitioned differently because of the different ram sizes.
I also do wonder if Nintendo plans to release performance patches at any point. Have they ever done that before? Maybe it's never been needed before...
I also do wonder if Nintendo plans to release performance patches at any point. Have they ever done that before? Maybe it's never been needed before...
MarkRenton
Banned
Has there ever been such a small difference in games between a generation before?
killatopak
Member
NinjaCoachZ
Member
From a technical perspective Twilight Princess was basically identical on GCN and Wii. Only difference was widescreen, flipped map, and motion controls.
Astral Dog
Member
Im happy with the U
Xdrive05
Member
It's interesting how Mario Kart 8D and Fast RMX show a huge improvement over their Wii-U counterparts while this game only has 56% more pixels and a step up in filtering. I know they started the port late and while still working on the original at the same time, but the math doesn't really add up even when you take the most conservative estimates of the Switch's capabilities. You'd expect something more like we see with the other cross gen ports.
Maybe something about the way the BotW engine is written that doesn't let it take advantage of the Switch's extra muscle properly? Or conversely something about it that hits a bottleneck in a way that Fast and MK doesn't?
Maybe something about the way the BotW engine is written that doesn't let it take advantage of the Switch's extra muscle properly? Or conversely something about it that hits a bottleneck in a way that Fast and MK doesn't?
Astral Dog
Member
Both.but mostly the first one its clear they had trouble adapting to Switch architecture after making Zelda U for so long
It's made me consider getting an nvidia Shield tbh. Would come in handy for other games too. Playing in bed rules. Maybe the next model.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
The Switch's tegra chip is better suited for 720p than 900p.
Welp.
Those lurches in battle looked horrid. Thankfully Wii U version compares just fine, given the hardware, and seems to validate a decision to not drop $360+ to play BotW.
Welp.
Those lurches in battle looked horrid. Thankfully Wii U version compares just fine, given the hardware, and seems to validate a decision to not drop $360+ to play BotW.
Unknown Soldier
Member
This is going to be amazing on Cemu.
- 4K resolution or even 8K downsampled
- 16x anisotropic filtering
- as much AA as you care to slather on
- locked 30 fps
- increased libido
I'm going to drop by Best Buy later today and pick up my Wii U copy of BOTW so I'll be ready for Cemu support lol
- 4K resolution or even 8K downsampled
- 16x anisotropic filtering
- as much AA as you care to slather on
- locked 30 fps
- increased libido
I'm going to drop by Best Buy later today and pick up my Wii U copy of BOTW so I'll be ready for Cemu support lol
Icedburden
Member
"Disgusting" is a bit hyperbolic. If you own the game and dislike the performance, there is nothing wrong with trying alternatives.
Scrotum Phillips
Member
Oy. It's disheartening to hear that a $300 just released console is struggling to play a game released on the previous gen at 900p/30fps. As someone who will 99.9% of the time play while in docked mode, also a bummer to hear that portable mode sounds like the prefered option as well.
Hopefully this is all growing pains and this gets straightened out.
Hopefully this is all growing pains and this gets straightened out.
LordOfChaos
Member
Pretty interesting how close the Wii U sticks to the Switch build, even in docked mode, when it's a ~50% pixel increase on the Switch and by all accounts on paper the Switch docked should at least be 2-3x as powerful as the Wii U. And without those pretty bad framerate dead stops the Switch sometimes has docked.
That's maybe just because most of its development happened on the Wii U, but this being the Wii Us swan song, we'll never have a 1:1 comparison to make again.
That's maybe just because most of its development happened on the Wii U, but this being the Wii Us swan song, we'll never have a 1:1 comparison to make again.
LordOfChaos
Member
What about cutscenes? Didn't it have all sorts of issues with in game video playback on other games?
Yeah dips were noticable when going down that path on WiiU. Be interested to see stuff regarding the villages.
Anyway I am glad that the WiiU version still holds up well, since I want to wait out for a bit on how the Switch pans out. Quite frankly, much of the framerate dips doesn't bother me much, and I feel this game can still be worthy of its high praise.
Anyway I am glad that the WiiU version still holds up well, since I want to wait out for a bit on how the Switch pans out. Quite frankly, much of the framerate dips doesn't bother me much, and I feel this game can still be worthy of its high praise.
Well it's good that the Wii U version does not appear to be significantly worse than the Switch version.
Since Tom suggests that some of the issues may be related to data streaming, I wonder if it's a disc/download being tested on the Wii U, and if installing the game to an SSD might help performance any. Apparently that can be faster than the internal storage despite only being USB2.
That's how I'll be running the game anyway since I couldn't get any other USB storage to work with my Wii U.
This is just another release which makes me very disappointed that Nintendo have their own systems instead of being a multiplatform developer though.
Zelda is twice the price of new PC games here, Nintendo games never get discounted over time, and performance and image quality are terrible on both platforms.
I'm sure that the game will be good, but I regret ever buying a Wii U.
It can be used for piracy, but so can actual Wii U hardware.
Unfortunately it may not be possible to bypass the 30 FPS framerate cap.
Unfortunately there are only some older Panasonic 4K TVs which have this option, and I think it may only have applied to 1080p sources.
If you're going to have filtered scaling applied, the more resolution you have, the better the result should be.
Would I be correct in assuming that the Switch version is limited to outputting 1080p, and doesn't have the option to scale 900p to 4K directly?
Having the image upscaled twice could be harmful to image quality, but I suspect that the higher rendering resolution is still going to make a bigger difference to image quality.
Since Tom suggests that some of the issues may be related to data streaming, I wonder if it's a disc/download being tested on the Wii U, and if installing the game to an SSD might help performance any. Apparently that can be faster than the internal storage despite only being USB2.
That's how I'll be running the game anyway since I couldn't get any other USB storage to work with my Wii U.
This is just another release which makes me very disappointed that Nintendo have their own systems instead of being a multiplatform developer though.
Zelda is twice the price of new PC games here, Nintendo games never get discounted over time, and performance and image quality are terrible on both platforms.
I'm sure that the game will be good, but I regret ever buying a Wii U.
Emulation is not piracy.
It can be used for piracy, but so can actual Wii U hardware.
A lot of emulators are now including options to overclock the emulated hardware, which can help with performance issues.
Unfortunately it may not be possible to bypass the 30 FPS framerate cap.
Or they decided that an extra frame of input lag at 30 FPS would be pretty bad. (depends how triple buffering is implemented)
If HDTVs did unfiltered scaling that could be true.
Unfortunately there are only some older Panasonic 4K TVs which have this option, and I think it may only have applied to 1080p sources.
If you're going to have filtered scaling applied, the more resolution you have, the better the result should be.
Would I be correct in assuming that the Switch version is limited to outputting 1080p, and doesn't have the option to scale 900p to 4K directly?
Having the image upscaled twice could be harmful to image quality, but I suspect that the higher rendering resolution is still going to make a bigger difference to image quality.
Backfoggen
Banned
It won't scale PERFECTLY but it will still look way better at 900p.
DeuceGamer
Member
Strangely, I've not had a drop during battles.
Also, I think he meant 720p for this specific game. Being as it was made with Wii U in mind it seems Switch isn't enough of a leap in power to brute force it at 900p and a more stable frame rate. I would expect Nintendo games made for Switch won't suffer the same performance issues. That said it doesn't look good for anyone that was expecting AAA western third party releases.