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Diablo II is still the best ARPG I've played.
- Thread starter DeSo
- Start date
I'm actually playing Diablo II along with III and it does feel dated. The combat is simply lagging behind and will get worse as time goes on. It's too slow and simplistic as far as fighting mechanics goes if you base it on modern standards imo. Outside of the combat, it's still a great game so it's worthy of it's classic status. :] The loot is second to none, everything dungeon is randomized and you can build a lot of different characters thx to the talent trees & attribute points. It also goes to show you how much of an influence it had on World of Warcraft (color coded loot system, exclamation point above npcs, etc).
I don't care as much as others do for the mood and atmosphere, but it is noticeable. Art style is unique among Blizzard games since the gore factor is more prevalent than in the sequel and there's distinctive color palette as well.
I think Blizzard had an incomplete understanding of what made D2 appealing and thought that it all came down to killing tons of enemies and bosses for loot over and over again, so they designed the game to encourage that mindset, such as giving messages for killing tons of enemies quickly or the Nephalem Valor mechanic that gave magic find bonuses for killing multiple bosses in succession. I feel like they saw everything else as secondary, so they took the path of least resistance to make the story and atmosphere seem big and important, like a lot of loud, bombastic music and a general reliance on SHOCKING TWISTS to move the plot forward.
No Diablo II thread is complete without this music track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2evIg-aYw8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2evIg-aYw8
SocksForWoks
Banned
It's so good that I even bought it again for my MacBook : )
allgamespc
Banned
pre 2.0 is atrociously bad. after 2.0 its decent. still not a very good game, very console oriented.
Edit: OH OH, we talking about D2 here, man i need to sleep. yes d2 is great, d3 sucks
Edit: OH OH, we talking about D2 here, man i need to sleep. yes d2 is great, d3 sucks
the funny thing about diablo2 is that I acknowledge its greatness. Somehow I know it has gameplay that makes you addicted, moreso than Diablo 3 and Diablo 1 had. However, I always return back to Diablo 1. I love the simplicity, forwardness and atmosphere of Diablo 1. What really drives it is the feeling of constant tension. You only go one step at a time because you know you can't handle more than 2 creatures at once. Whilst diablo 2 is more of bam-bam-bam, you go so fast that you can't even process everything in your mind. It's somehow mindless fun. Well, and Diablo 3 is at first more about the story and the effects; it's less about the core gameplay, also (at least the first few months, haven't played it in a long time) tension only came up when fighting against elite monsters and then it was more luck-based whether or not these were fair fights or not. Not a good game design by any means. It did not live up to the first two games. The focus of the developers was wrong. But then again: It only makes Diablo 1 and 2 even more respectable in retrospect.
I still kinda regret never going back and playing Diablo 1 on Nightmare/Hell. When it first came out, I didn't realize that there were multiple difficulty levels until around when Diablo 2 came out. So when I beat it as a Rogue, I said, "Oh neat, that's it? Yay!"
I should go back and do it as a Sorcerer...
styl3s
Member
Does the game even run well on W7 without having to do all kinds of mods? I have been interesting in revisiting the game but not if it's a hassle. If that's the case i will drive to my storage and dig out my old ass PC that has it installed. Computer is probably so full of viruses i would be afraid to turn it on.
piratepwnsninja
Member
Yeah, a lot of people don't remember that vanilla was good, but not great. It's only that we've been playing 10 years of D2 with everything fixed that's made it great. I whole-heartedly feel that D3 will get there, too.
lazorexplosion
Member
Diablo 2 is a masterpiece; really top of its class.
I tried to like Diablo 3 when it came out, played through regular difficulty and was bored out of my skull. Re-installed recently to try out the new patch and it's still not for me. Might give it another shot but I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to enjoy it.
I tried to like Diablo 3 when it came out, played through regular difficulty and was bored out of my skull. Re-installed recently to try out the new patch and it's still not for me. Might give it another shot but I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to enjoy it.
Not sure if it's still the best. D3 is now outstanding. Marvel Heroes, PoE, and Torchlight 2 are all really great.
With that being said, for a 14 year old game Diablo 2 still holds up amazingly. Probably no other game around that age that even comes close.
zero mods. update to the newest patch and run it in windowed mode. I believe the only downside/bugged stuff are the cinematics.. I know I had issues with them looking awful in fullscreen (on top of non-native res on LCD), and they don't play at all in windowed. But windowed D2 runs flawlessly and the window is sizable.
With that being said, for a 14 year old game Diablo 2 still holds up amazingly. Probably no other game around that age that even comes close.
zero mods. update to the newest patch and run it in windowed mode. I believe the only downside/bugged stuff are the cinematics.. I know I had issues with them looking awful in fullscreen (on top of non-native res on LCD), and they don't play at all in windowed. But windowed D2 runs flawlessly and the window is sizable.
D3 is in a really good place right now. It IS a different game than D2, but as an ARPG it is finally dropping good loot, the AH is shutting down the week after next, and there's actually a fun end game. And all of this is without RoS even out yet.
I know we all love Diablo 2, but Diablo 2 wasn't Diablo 2 on release. It was buggy and broken, crashes, save deletes, hacks, scams, online server crashes, unbalanced classes and skills. Someone already mentioned one of them, the zeal spam whiff. There were plenty of others. And there was a lack of content.
Sure, there were more items and it wasn't as bad as D3 on release, but it took years upon years of dedication, patches, and expansions to bring D2 up to where it is today.
Also, there are a ton of great games from back then and a lot of them hold up. Games like Fallout, System Shock 2, and so on are still revered today, and rightly so.
Sure, there were more items and it wasn't as bad as D3 on release, but it took years upon years of dedication, patches, and expansions to bring D2 up to where it is today.
Also, there are a ton of great games from back then and a lot of them hold up. Games like Fallout, System Shock 2, and so on are still revered today, and rightly so.
Maybe I just tried the wrong class or something? I came back and started a witch doctor and was just not having it.
Do you find that scaling enemies difficulty to level makes leveling feel awful? That was my impression from the start of the game. Does this get better? What's a good class to try and enjoy this game as?
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Diablo II is a work of art, pure and simple. The story, music, gameplay, loot, skill system, and maybe most importantly the atmosphere and look all work together to create an incredible game that to this day has not been topped IMHO. What hasn't aged so well is the interface, its still adequate but more modern games have improvements that I wish D2 could have.
I still wish that D3 had the graphical look and feel of D2, but we won't ever see that now. PoE has it, but lacks the gameplay and feel of D2 (and now D3 too).
But yeah, no game has yet topped Diablo II IMHO too. It's a masterpiece.
Just take it with you.
Member
I enjoyed Diablo 2 a lot, and like the OP, I've played it single player only. However...
I have to agree somewhat with this. I haven't played the others listed here, so I can't comment, but the Torchlights really benefit from overall refinements in this style of game that have come about over the years.
I have to agree somewhat with this. I haven't played the others listed here, so I can't comment, but the Torchlights really benefit from overall refinements in this style of game that have come about over the years.
Sanctuary
Member
Diablo 3 still can't hold a fucking candle to this game in terms of atmosphere and design even with the loot changes. It just has "better" graphics. The combat is similar, but still nowhere as good. Blizzard may have made it so that more skills are viable the third time around, but in the end you're still primarily using the same one or two skills for just about everything. And in that light, they are ultimately boring compared to the skills you'd spam in Diablo 2. They just aren't anywhere near as fun.
Diablo 3 never had anything close to:
The orignal CE Necro
The nerfed CE Necro + Summons
The Skelemancer/Zookeeper
The Hammerdin (we'll see how close the Crusader gets)
The Orb Sorceress (bomb was a more convoluted way to get kind of similar, but not quite the same results)
The Nova Sorceress
The original Singer Barbarian
The original WW Barbarian
The nerfed WW Barbarian
The Strafeazon
The Multishot Amazon
The Burizon
The Javazon
Forsaken82
Member
I can't agree with this. It is great that the loot dropping finally feels significant, but the difficulty is far to easy, even on the higher difficulties, and name me any game in the genre that made it possible for you to basically have a character decked out in Legendaries before the end of your first fucking play through? I have crafted more Brimstone in the first 10 levels of a new Witch Doctor than the amount of legendaries I found before Loot 2.0 because they are so fucking useless and frequent this early in game.
They took the itemization to far. Guaranteed Legendaries after boss fights is not the right approach to have taken and the fact that they basically drop nearly as frequently as good Yellow items makes them completely irrelevant. End game may finally be fun to play, but I preferred my 1-60 trek before loot 2.0 a lot more than I am 1-60 now. I guess thats why everyone is setting there shit to torment 6 and just having there friends boost them to level 60.
I remember my days in Diablo 2, I would go an entire Normal playthrough without ever finding a unique or set piece making that moment all the sweeter when it finally did happen sometime in Nightmare or Hell. I guess it helped that the items didn't suck half of the time.
eot
Banned
I guess it's good that people like it, but that game is just unsalvagable in my eyes. Increasing drop rates doesn't fix the +main-stat problem, or how boring the progression is when a level 60 weapon is always way better than a level 55 one, or how stupid it is that casters do spell damage based on weapon damage, or how DPS is the only stat that matters on weapons, or that a spear is functionally identical to a dagger etc. It doesn't fix the shitty boss fights, champion affixes, environments or the quest system.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Yes, very much so, I can totally see that. Dark Souls feels a lot like a 3D modern first person Diablo III game. The loot is toned down but the character building has very much the same feeling to it. Nice analogy, and I agree.
Rushersauce
Banned
Indeed it is.
I disagree with you, I think it's getting closer to Diablo 2 now than it did before, Diablo 2 originally had tons of issues and it took a long time and really once LOD came out than Diablo 2 hit it's potential.
I pretty much did the same thing in Diablo 3 as I did with Diablo 2, I beat the games on multiple difficulties and than didn't play it until the expansion came out.
I really don't get that point of view, I just don't see how you can write off the game like that.
FWIW i agree with all of those negative assessments of this game though. Some of the decisions (like caster spell damage being based on weapon damage) are fucking senseless.
Diablo 2 -> Diablo 3 is the poster child for modern over-engineering.
Diablo 2 was and still is a massively broken game. It didn't ever get close. Skills were broken and unusable (or too usable), items didn't scale, gems were useless, gambling was useless, hirelings were useless, uniques were mostly useless, you could get mobs that were unbeatable, the economy was fucked with dupes, enemies and bosses were too farmable. They fixed a lot of it and yet even now it's still pretty broken, only a few builds with heavy gear are viable at the top end. I think it was those rough edges that gave rise to organic player strategy and that made it fun. It was always fun to create a new character an see how far you could go before you hit the wall. Much more boring to respec. Diablo 3 tries so hard to avoid pitfalls it simply feels forced, there's a particular path they want players on, a certain way to play. Maybe it's less repetitive but it saps a lot of strategy and makes it less fun. Truly great games often are broken experiences, but that's okay. Throwing 200 people on a game and playtesting the shit out of it makes it more generic, maybe the lows get brought up but the highs come down too.
Diablo 2 was and still is a massively broken game. It didn't ever get close. Skills were broken and unusable (or too usable), items didn't scale, gems were useless, gambling was useless, hirelings were useless, uniques were mostly useless, you could get mobs that were unbeatable, the economy was fucked with dupes, enemies and bosses were too farmable. They fixed a lot of it and yet even now it's still pretty broken, only a few builds with heavy gear are viable at the top end. I think it was those rough edges that gave rise to organic player strategy and that made it fun. It was always fun to create a new character an see how far you could go before you hit the wall. Much more boring to respec. Diablo 3 tries so hard to avoid pitfalls it simply feels forced, there's a particular path they want players on, a certain way to play. Maybe it's less repetitive but it saps a lot of strategy and makes it less fun. Truly great games often are broken experiences, but that's okay. Throwing 200 people on a game and playtesting the shit out of it makes it more generic, maybe the lows get brought up but the highs come down too.
foobarry81
Member
I feel the same way. I did only play the game for the first time a few years back though. Maybe if you played it around its original release the experience would've felt completely different. But nowadays I find it hasn't aged well at all, both graphically and in its mechanics. I enjoyed the Torchlights a lot more, really.
Meanwhile I can keep getting back to other games (like the Infinity engine ones) from the same era without any problem.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Diablo 3 still can't hold a fucking candle to this game in terms of atmosphere and design even with the loot changes. It just has "better" graphics. The combat is similar, but still nowhere as good. Blizzard may have made it so that more skills are viable the third time around, but in the end you're still primarily using the same one or two skills for just about everything. And in that light, they are ultimately boring compared to the skills you'd spam in Diablo 2. They just aren't anywhere near as fun.
Diablo 3 never had anything close to:
The orignal CE Necro
The nerfed CE Necro + Summons
The Skelemancer/Zookeeper
The Hammerdin (we'll see how close the Crusader gets)
The Orb Sorceress (bomb was a more convoluted way to get kind of similar, but not quite the same results)
The Nova Sorceress
The original Singer Barbarian
The original WW Barbarian
The nerfed WW Barbarian
The Strafeazon
The Multishot Amazon
The Burizon
The Javazon
Don't forget the Frenzy Barb (It wasn't viable in hell but it was hella fun!) and the Zeal Paladin. It's all about that attack speed, boys!
D2: LoD is a masterpiece.
That being said, I legitimately enjoyed my time with D3 (about 400 hours). The only reason I stopped playing is because I got super busy with work. If I were to start playing again I know I would get sucked back in, but I have too many other games to play right now and I can't let that happen
That being said, I legitimately enjoyed my time with D3 (about 400 hours). The only reason I stopped playing is because I got super busy with work. If I were to start playing again I know I would get sucked back in, but I have too many other games to play right now and I can't let that happen
played the hell out of D2 in college. LOD made it better.
I think the addition of the runes and charms in LOD was one of my favorite aspects and something I miss from D3 (and the horadric cube). I was really hoping that we would get that for ROS expansion but instead it seems like just more items (which is fine I guess) and a new Act/class but it doesn't feel like there is anything substantial being added to the CORE experience.
loot 2.0 has made it fun to play self-found (which is how I played mostly before anyways) but I don't feel like that ADDED anything meaningful to the game. It just re-balanced stuff to how it feels like it needed to be from day 1.
I know LOD was a long long time ago but it just feels like it was a much more significant content addition and game-changer than ROS is going to be.
I still occasionally fire up D2 though. I have my old Blizzard sorceress and hammerdin that took a LOT of failed builds before they felt right. Game is still a lot of fun but hard to go back to vanilla D2.
I think the addition of the runes and charms in LOD was one of my favorite aspects and something I miss from D3 (and the horadric cube). I was really hoping that we would get that for ROS expansion but instead it seems like just more items (which is fine I guess) and a new Act/class but it doesn't feel like there is anything substantial being added to the CORE experience.
loot 2.0 has made it fun to play self-found (which is how I played mostly before anyways) but I don't feel like that ADDED anything meaningful to the game. It just re-balanced stuff to how it feels like it needed to be from day 1.
I know LOD was a long long time ago but it just feels like it was a much more significant content addition and game-changer than ROS is going to be.
I still occasionally fire up D2 though. I have my old Blizzard sorceress and hammerdin that took a LOT of failed builds before they felt right. Game is still a lot of fun but hard to go back to vanilla D2.
D2 singleplayer only? You must be crazy or have a bone to pick with d3.
Working with my mates to collect the end game keys and defeat the final forms in tristram before d3 was a great memory. I couldn't imagine enjoying the game without anyone to share the experience with. Amazing game for the ages.
Working with my mates to collect the end game keys and defeat the final forms in tristram before d3 was a great memory. I couldn't imagine enjoying the game without anyone to share the experience with. Amazing game for the ages.
pieatorium
Member
Chain Lightning xbow sorc was cool, i like weird mechanics like that where non traditional stats boost mage classes. Sucks they patched it out , i think in 1.10?
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
The fact that you could fill up your inventory with charms made pretty much any build viable in Hell, which I think is great. For Diablo 3, Blizzard went for balance and is making sure you can't get too powerful in one area or another, but I think it takes away from feeling like you've created a unique character. Paragon levels help to an extent, but it's still just so limited in comparison. Now if they doubled the Paragon increments and the categories couldn't get maxed out, that'd be a different story.
That's my biggest qualm with D3. It's getting to be quite balanced, but between that and being able to change skills/paragon allocation whenever you want, it makes for a pretty cookie cutter experience. I want my guy to be different than your guy. I want to focus on certain strengths and be able to work off another character with different strengths; that's where the "role" in role playing game comes from.
I think most people would agree with you there, the action/physics are just better realized because it's a modern game. But the nostalgia argument doesn't apply to D2...I played that game 2 years ago and it's still fuckin awesome. The combat is still pretty satisfying too.
Take nostalgia out of the equation and I think D3 is the better game. If it weren't for poor level design and story, it would be so much better. But the core mechanics and flow of gameplay is vastly superior to D2. The Witch Doctor is one of the best realized concepts I've ever seen in a game.
Sanctuary
Member
True, but Zealots only mattered if they had a Schaefer's (*which was almost as rare as a not botted/duped/bought Windforce). They weren't really viable on the higher difficulties as anything other than to screw around with. I didn't mention Frenzy simply because it was never as overpowered as the WW or Singer builds. The original WW + Iceblink = lols.
Oh, and don't get me wrong; I am more than likely going to get RoS. I stopped playing D3PC after the first three weeks of launch, but then decided to give the PS3 version a go. And I thought it was a massive improvement, even though it was really just loot changes (loot that was still mostly boring, but at least you actually saw something drop for a change). It's still just not going to be Diablo 2, even if it's much better than what it was at launch.
I'm just worried about the monster density. It was anemic on the PS3 compared to the PC, and 2.0 apparently nerfed the higher density areas again. Sometimes it's not just about loot you know? Killing legions of enemies is where the game truly shines.
So a stripped down Necromancer/Druid hybrid is one of the best realized concepts?
Okay. The worst part about D3 is just how much WoW influenced its design. Not that I actually have anything against WoW, but it didn't need to be used as a model on how to make the Diablo franchise "better", by a team that knew next to nothing about what made Diablo 1&2 so great.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
What as the last version of D2 that you played? I had a Zealot that could rush hell with a ebotd berserker axe. Hammerdin was definitely better overall, but zeal may have dealt even more damage against single enemies.
Gotcha. Not sure when they added Eternal Breath of the Dying runeword, but it definitely contributed to making it a viable Hell build, and oh so much fun.
Sanctuary
Member
1.10. Stopped playing it years ago when I started focusing more on EQ/WoW.
I_D
Member
I'm glad other people share my obsession. Diablo 2 is the best game ever made.
I just did some Googling and found that my old guides, four years later and very out of date, are still at the top of the page on Diablo2.com.
http://www.diablo2.com/forum/paladin-guides-f22.html
I still haven't purchased Diablo 3 because I played it at a friend's house shortly after release and it was a piece of shit.
From somebody who has played a fair amount of Diablo 2, how does Diablo 3 honestly hold up nowadays?
I just did some Googling and found that my old guides, four years later and very out of date, are still at the top of the page on Diablo2.com.
http://www.diablo2.com/forum/paladin-guides-f22.html
I still haven't purchased Diablo 3 because I played it at a friend's house shortly after release and it was a piece of shit.
From somebody who has played a fair amount of Diablo 2, how does Diablo 3 honestly hold up nowadays?
Netherscourge
Banned
If Blizzard slapped Diablo 3's visuals, models and engine onto Diablo 2, I'd be playing Diablo 2 right now.