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DICE: "We right now don't have support for the Wii U in the Frostbite engine."

Foshy

Member
Seriously, a 3DS with Pokemon is going to be a lot more attractive than a £400+ next gen machine. We shall see though.

I don't think Pokemon is going to influence next-gen sales much. Sure, it will sell gangbusters, but many kids that will be getting a 3DS with Pokemon XY for christmas wouldn't have gotten a next-gen console anyway. As for the core gamers, the dudebro type doesn't give a shit about Pokemon and the "true" core likely already owns a 3DS and will get both Pokemon and the 400$+ console.

I can see both 3DS and PS4 doing exceptionally well in Q4.
 

v1oz

Member
The market has never supported three viable 'hardcore' platforms. And for the most part, the days of saturating the entire market with one franchise on everything are over. Granted that there will still be Madden and Call of Duty, big franchises that they want on everything, but there's no Acclaim's or Midway's anymore to just drop NBA Jam or NFL Blitz on every system with a pulse.

There's a reason these companies are going out of business and losing money. Bigger budget, bigger resources needed, opportunity cost with every move. What should companies like DICE do - waste resources that could be used to start working on the next iteration to make a Wii U game that's won't sell near as good as other platforms?

"That's good sales ... for Wii U" isn't good enough to justify games. When Zombii U comes out and it's only done around 150K or so LTD, that's not enough. Games need to do Nintendo numbers, and they're not.
3rd party games haven't done well on Nintendo since at least the Gamecube generation. The only thing that drives sales on Nintendo platforms are Nintendo games themselves. The last time there was a 3rd party game that was a system seller for Nintendo was probably during the Street Fighter II era.

Nintendo will do just fine. Their business plan of producing everything for profit is more sustainable. If the Wii U only sells through 20 million units (which it wont) in its life time like Gamecube did - it will still be profitable for Nintendo. And they still have their loyal domestic Japanese market. Nintendo is a bit like Apple in that they sell their hardware for a profit and there is enough differentiation between their own product and everything else on the market. You buy a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games.

The real loser this generation is gonna come from either Microsoft or Sony. The majority of the games people play on these systems are multi-platform. And there's a lot less to differentiate these two in terms of what they offer.

This coming generation Sony and Microsoft are gonna duel to the death, probably making huge hardware losses and all whilst dealing with increased costs of producing AAA games - which will mean even lower retail margins. Sony might bow out, they are struggling in every other tech industry they are in (phones, tablets, TVs, computers, laptops, mp3 players etc) and they were losers for the majority of the past console generation. And they're coming back on the PS4 with close to the exact same strategy as last time.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I don't think the rest of the industry is struggling as badly as SquareEnix is, but the AAA trend isn't good. The most puzzling thing to me is that people still talk as if the only reason it's happening is because people are tired of existing hardware. They sound like the people who were saying that the economic bust of 2007-Present would stay contained in the housing sector.

People are assuming that the release of new hardware will act as a shot in the arm for AAA. One reason may be because publishers will be finally willing to put out more new IPs in the opening years of a console generation. We'll see.

This coming generation Sony and Microsoft are gonna duel to the death, probably making huge hardware losses and all whilst dealing with increased costs of producing AAA games - which will mean even lower retail margins. Sony might bow out, they are struggling in every other tech industry they are in (phones, tablets, TVs, computers, laptops, mp3 players etc) and they were losers for the majority of the past console generation. And they're coming back on the PS4 with close to the exact same strategy as last time.

I've been thinking the same thing too. With their current model, it's possible that Nintendo could simply outlast Sony. For what happens next, that's way too far off to speculate on.
 

Kickz

Member
Nintendo should make a Pokemon HD RPG on Wii U, I think that would cause mindblowingness.

They don't want to under cut the cash cow the hand held version is.

But yes a Dragon Quest 8 style Pokemon RPG would be too epic for words.
 

C.T.

Member
The frostbite engine is now they main engine EA use internally, right? Wouldn't they have a dedicated team to just work on the engine? And wouldn't it be in EAs best interest, to update the engine for full WII U support? I know this is an obvious question and the answer is even more. I think it's more about the willingsness than the lack of ressources or, for better words, business.
 

pixlexic

Banned
The frostbite engine is now they main engine EA use internally, right? Wouldn't they have a dedicated team to just work on the engine? And wouldn't it be in EAs best interest, to update the engine for full WII U support? I know this is an obvious question and the answer is even more. I think it's more about the willingsness than the lack of ressources or, for better words, business.

The engine will support games on iPhones and iPads .. Trust me.
 

JordanN

Banned
Please. Re-read your post. The "Let me guess..." part was clearly meant as a slam. That's not "civil" at all.

If you had said, "Who do you believe is responsible for their third-party problems?" I would have responded in kind. That's how you carry on a civil conversation. You were projecting.
It's a legitimate question.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
It's a legitimate question.

The way you phrased it, it wasn't a question. It was an accusation. Regardless, let's put it behind us.

Anyway, I do believe Nintendo is fully responsible for their horrible third party relationships. Eventually it is going to result in them either A) Sticking to handhelds only or B) teaming up with another company.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
The frostbite engine is now they main engine EA use internally, right?
For a lot of things, yes.

Wouldn't they have a dedicated team to just work on the engine?
They have multiple.

And wouldn't it be in EAs best interest, to update the engine for full WII U support?
Okay this is where you lost me. If they don't intend to make any games for it, why would it be in their best interest?
 

wsippel

Banned
Okay this is where you lost me. If they don't intend to make any games for it, why would it be in their best interest?
You know, that's the problem: Not intending to make any games for it. And that's a really dumb idea. I'm too drunk to properly explain myself I'm afraid, but I think this line of thinking will hurt EA more than it'll hurt Nintendo over the next couple of years.
 
You know, that's the problem: Not intending to make any games for it. And that's a really dumb idea. I'm too drunk to properly explain myself I'm afraid, but I think this line of thinking will hurt EA more than it'll hurt Nintendo over the next couple of years.

As of now Wii U is bombing in sales and you expect EA to port games to Wii U. They would just waste money as most EA games would probably bomb on Wii U anyway. Wii U is just not the right market for EA games.
 

USC-fan

Banned
You know, that's the problem: Not intending to make any games for it. And that's a really dumb idea. I'm too drunk to properly explain myself I'm afraid, but I think this line of thinking will hurt EA more than it'll hurt Nintendo over the next couple of years.

Doubtful. Once Ea stop with crossover gamse it will be a big advantage for EA not to have a target very low power system compare to next gen.

For next gen games they can target 8gb of ram, dx11.1+ gpus and 8 cpu core x86-64bit cpu.
That would be the "lowest spec" that they need to support. Very smart move IMO...
 

Terrell

Member
As of now Wii U is bombing in sales and you expect EA to port games to Wii U. They would just waste money as most EA games would probably bomb on Wii U anyway. Wii U is just not the right market for EA games.
The PS3 was bombing in sales in its first 6 months, too. Didn't stop them then.
 

Shion

Member
You know, that's the problem: Not intending to make any games for it. And that's a really dumb idea. I'm too drunk to properly explain myself I'm afraid, but I think this line of thinking will hurt EA more than it'll hurt Nintendo over the next couple of years.
So wait.

If you were a CEO at a major publisher like EA, considering how there's this thing called "opportunity cost" that comes into play, would you take the risk of investing money on Wii U ports?

It's been 7 years since this generation started.

By this point, almost anyone interested in current-gen games from 3rd parties already owns a 360, a PS3 or a PC.

Who, and why, would buy the Wii U version?

The PS3 was bombing in sales in its first 6 months, too. Didn't stop them then.
Yes, because publishers expected a migration of the PS2/GC/XBOX audience to PS360 (not to mention that they had already invested money on new engines and tech).

The PS360 audience has no incentive to migrate to Wii U.
 

nekomix

Member
The PS3 was bombing in sales in its first 6 months, too. Didn't stop them then.

Invested too much money in PS360 to turn back when everything was going wrong. That's a big difference : most of them didn't invest or gamble a lot of money on WiiU as Wii in the past so it was/is easier to dump these platforms out of their business plans.
 

USC-fan

Banned
The PS3 was bombing in sales in its first 6 months, too. Didn't stop them then.
But the x360 wasnt. With both being around the same power like this next gen. Every game should be released on both. It was worth the investment in the long run.

So even if the ps4/x720 bombs it will still get games. Since both are based on the same hardware it should make life easy for third party devs compare to this gen.
 

F#A#Oo

Banned
Nintendo's obessession with the trade off of advanced hardware power for hardware innovation is going to cripple them like it did with the Wii in terms of third-party multiplatform support. Third parties have little interest in having hardware gimmicks dictate game design. Unfortunately, it makes little sense to make third party exclusives now that Nintendo's entered HD development. Nintendo can snatch up a handful of third-party exclusives to publish itself, but that's like taking a cup and getting some water out of a lake.

Nintendo can't win regardless.

The Wii showed that even if Nintendo have a best seller pubs and devs will ignore the platform.

There seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy push by everyone in the industry.


Nintendo is for teens and people who don't play traditional games. Nintendo platforms only exist to sell Nintendo games. Nintendo won't get third party support because it's Nintendo.

Even if Nintendo went toe-to-toe in the hardware dept it would matter little since pubs and devs are not willing to take a gamble to prove the above statements wrong and by not trying they are in-directly enforcing these beliefs to become true.

Before the Wii the excuse was Nintendo didn't have an install base. Then it outsold everything and then the excuse was well it's the wrong base for our games.

In the end nothing changes even if Nintendo make the appropriate responses to certain concerns.
 

AzaK

Member
Well yeah, that's all they fucking had back then. I think the average person can tell what's looks better, outside of fps and screen tearing bullshit.

edit: lol at my google results

imagesqtbnANd9GcSHKS39KpTRnFyD5nr-s_zpsa55941ad.jpg

The Nintendo one looks like it has more soul anyway :)
 

Game Guru

Member
Nintendo can't win regardless.

The Wii showed that even if Nintendo have a best seller pubs and devs will ignore the platform.

There seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy push by everyone in the industry.


Nintendo is for teens and people who don't play traditional games. Nintendo platforms only exist to sell Nintendo games. Nintendo won't get third party support because it's Nintendo.

Even if Nintendo went toe-to-toe in the hardware dept it would matter little since pubs and devs are not willing to take a gamble to prove the above statements wrong and by not trying they are in-directly enforcing these beliefs to become true.

Before the Wii the excuse was Nintendo didn't have an install base. Then it outsold everything and then the excuse was well it's the wrong base for our games.

In the end nothing changes even if Nintendo make the appropriate responses to certain concerns.

Which ends up explaining their strategy of seemingly courting indie developers. After all, if the established third-parties aren't going to make games for your systems no matter what, but you need third-party support, what do you do? Go to the companies who will become established third-parties in the future and court them instead.
 
You know, that's the problem: Not intending to make any games for it. And that's a really dumb idea. I'm too drunk to properly explain myself I'm afraid, but I think this line of thinking will hurt EA more than it'll hurt Nintendo over the next couple of years.

Hahaha....how in the world is EA hurt more than Nintendo. EA will continue to make multimillion selling blockbusters unless they horrendously enter next gen, and is the next gen consoles bomb, they have the PS3/360. Nintendo meanwhile loses out on tens of millions royalties and there system looks like shit for the average core gamer
 

SMD

Member
Hahaha....how in the world is EA hurt more than Nintendo. EA will continue to make multimillion selling blockbusters unless they horrendously enter next gen, and is the next gen consoles bomb, they have the PS3/360. Nintendo meanwhile loses out on tens of millions royalties and there system looks like shit for the average core gamer

That's EA whose CEO just resigned for the very reason that Iwata threatened his own departure?
 

AmFreak

Member
Before the Wii the excuse was Nintendo didn't have an install base. Then it outsold everything and then the excuse was well it's the wrong base for our games.

Cause it's right, "nobody" wants to play CoD, Skyrim, Bioshock etc. on the Wii.

In the end nothing changes even if Nintendo make the appropriate responses to certain concerns.

Nintendo has practicaly done 0 to get the hardcore gamer crowd.
 

waypoetic

Banned
Did i just read "and future plattforms we cant talk about"? The PS4 got announced a month ago, you're obviously working on a PS4 version of the game because that info is out - yet you dont mention it at all and treating it like it's still a secret.
 

Radec

Member
Third Parties can easily dont give a fuck about a nintendo console and they still do fine on a Sony/MS console or even a PC.

Wii sold 100m units but still had less 3rd party games especially the high profile ones. Maybe simply because it was an underpowered SD console competing against an HD console with online features. And they just cant take risks on underdeveloping or downgrading their games just to port it.

Then the WiiU comes with great promise and it can easily compete with the PS3/360. But why still the 3rd party drought? Maybe because they are now moving on to a much much better hardwares. Maybe they thought that updating their engines to support the WiiU will just be wasting money and time where you can just allot those in updating your engine and games for the inevitable Next Generation where most 3rd parties dont include the WiiU as part of it.
 

EDarkness

Member
Cause it's right, "nobody" wants to play CoD, Skyrim, Bioshock etc. on the Wii.

Nintendo has practicaly done 0 to get the hardcore gamer crowd.

Man, what about games like Zombie U, Batman, Monster Hunter, Bayonetta 2, Need for Speed U, etc. I guess "core" guys don't play those games? Mario isn't a "core" franchise? Core gamers wanted dual analog and they gave that to folks. Not sure what you want them to do...
 

Terrell

Member
PS3 had the audience they were looking for that will buy their games. Right now Wii U's audience is Nintendo fans.

This is part of the problem: audiences aren't set in stone nor are they immutable properties. And Nintendo's history provides a rather important example of that being the reality.

But that's just an overarching industry problem: it's repeating the comic book industry's failings of targeting over-20 males almost exclusively to a near-pandering level when that's not sustainable, especially as costs increase. And it's doing that by dictating what platforms are for what demographics.
 

AmFreak

Member
If find this very hard to believe. People and their ridiculous hyperboles.

That's the reason i put nobody in quotes. Of course there are people like hardcore nintendo fans, which would have bought the wii versions of such games, but they aren't enough. The post was a response to a post that said that the "wrong base for our games"- statements were only an excuse from devs / publishers. The question then is, what was the true reason? That they all hate Nintendo and thus didn't want money?


Man, what about games like Zombie U, Batman, Monster Hunter, Bayonetta 2, Need for Speed U, etc. I guess "core" guys don't play those games? Mario isn't a "core" franchise? Core gamers wanted dual analog and they gave that to folks. Not sure what you want them to do...

And that you think gets them the hardcore gamer crowd?
And it's not about what i want them to do, but what would have been needed to even have a chance of getting a part of that crowd.
 

EDarkness

Member
And that you think gets them the hardcore gamer crowd?
And it's not about what i want them to do, but what would have been needed to even have a chance of getting a part of that crowd.

Why is what they've done not acceptable to that crowd? The biggest complaint against them before was that they were focusing on games like Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Mario Party and the like. "Core" gamers bitched that the remote was for grandmas and all that as well. So they changed that. What else did they need to do? They went after games that the "core" gamer would have wanted which is why they funded Bayonetta 2. To say they did 0 to get the "core" gamer is flat out crazy. At launch they had Assassin's Creed 3, Batman, Black Ops 2, Zombi U, and Darksiders 2. These aren't "core" games? Or are they less due to the fact that they're on Nintendo's console?

I guess I just don't understand what they should have done if these aren't the types of games the "core" gamers want.

Seemed to piss them off more than anything :p

Definitely. To this day I still don't understand the hate. Nintendo can't win for losing.
 

mclem

Member
Practically means almost nothing so one thing still applies :p

Good choice for them to get bayo but they should have been trying to get capcom and konami on board with ports of their action games aswell to try and build a bit of an audience.

I think the key difference in my eyes is that Bayonetta was up for grabs - and neither Sony nor Microsoft thought it was worth securing it. From a sales perspective, that's probably a reasonable decision... but it's also a step that means they aren't striving to secure quite the same hardcore fanbase as previously.

The bit that interests me isn't as much that Nintendo *did* get Bayo, it's that the others *didn't*.
 

linkboy

Member
Definitely. To this day I still don't understand the hate. Nintendo can't win for losing.

Exactly, people keep saying that Nintendo needs to go out and get games that appeal to "core " (that's such a stupid term btw) gamers, but then when they do, it's nothing but bitching (just like with what we saw with Bayonetta).
 
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