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Did Amazon receive a faulty batch of PS4 Consoles, or was it poor packaging?

Donthizz#

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May 1, 2011
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This is what Amazon had to say when supplied with generalities:



interesting, but a lot gaffers who ordered their PS4's from Amazon has been experiencing the same issues.
 

Superblatt

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May 17, 2007
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This appears to be being blown way out of proportion, which is no surprise. Even if there were 500 or 1000 negative reviews on amazon it would be a fraction of what they have shipped. Human nature means those that are unhappy complain, and those that are happy say nothing. This launch is virtually no different than any other.
 

polyh3dron

Banned
Jan 14, 2007
41,965
3
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Los Angeles, CA
This is a good exemple of ''silent majority'' thing. People who gets their ps4 broken are mad ans flood forums and bad reviews on internet. People who gets their ps4 working actually don't care about reviewing it on amazon and says ''it works !!' cause its normal.

This isn't representative of any ratio. Same things for gaf.
I'd say the jury is still out on that. And I say that while having two PS4s from Amazon that both work perfectly. These consoles haven't been out long enough to know for sure. It took about 5 months for my launch 360 to fall to the RROD and still then I saw posts just like yours trying to downplay the problem.

Also, MS wanted me to pay to ship that broken console back to them and wanted me to pay for a replacement (this was before their change of heart on the matter and Peter Moore was still saying "y'know, things break"). As long as Sony handles this with class and takes care of the people who are unfortunate enough to have bad PS4s without downplaying the issues then I won't be too mad at Sony. MS didn't set the bar very high for this kind of situation anyways.
 

Dueck

Banned
Jul 19, 2011
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Just for the sake of adding information:

My friend manages a GS, and of the 140ish consoles they had for launch there was only 1 call about a defective one as of the afternoon.
 

Krisprolls

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May 20, 2010
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Just for the sake of adding information:

My friend manages a GS, and of the 140ish consoles they had for launch there was only 1 call about a defective one as of the afternoon.

Ok so here are the stats : it's 0,71 % default rate here, so perfectly acceptable, case closed.

For comparison sake, Xbox 360 had 45 % default rate if I remember correctly.
 

The_Lump

Banned
Feb 11, 2012
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This appears to be being blown way out of proportion, which is no surprise. Even if there were 500 or 1000 negative reviews on amazon it would be a fraction of what they have shipped. Human nature means those that are unhappy complain, and those that are happy say nothing. This launch is virtually no different than any other.

True, but that's still a worryingly large amount of complaints in a short space of time. Sure some will be fake/trolling but even accounting for that, it's quite a bit more than normal imo. WiiU for example didn't have anything like that did it? (No jokes, it sold a lot at launch)

I'm monitoring this closely as mine is on preorder with Amazon UK. Might be tempted to cancel and wait till new year if this escalates.
 

Gamespawn

Member
Jan 5, 2012
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490
Maybe it stems from how UPS treat their packages? I had two arrive yesterday. Both in different sized boxes. Mine had padding on both sides and the box was twice the size of my brother's. Mine works perfect. No crashes or anything. He hasn't set his up yet because he works third shift and he's been paranoid about what's going on. If his doesn't work, maybe it's the way they've been packaged?
 

mordecaii83

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May 28, 2013
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Just fyi, I can state with 100% confidence that Amazon had at least 150k units to sell. So keep that number as a low-end baseline when you start trying to figure out the percentage of defective units...

Edit: Revised to be even more safe, it's an estimation but one I have absolute confidence about.
 

RaikuHebi

Banned
Jun 16, 2013
8,576
1
0
I'm fairly sure NeoGAF and Amazon reviews were really quite prominent back in 2005/6 too, even if Twitter and Facebook weren't around. And it's not like we haven't had 3DS, Vita and Wii U in recent years too, not with the same extent of reports of units not working out of the box.

Regardless, I'm hoping this was just a one-off faulty batch, and not something that will affect all/most PS4 units down the line like RROD. It was a PITA having to send my 360 to Germany and waiting for a replacement, especially given Blue Dragon had just released at the time. Bastards.
The internet was big in 2005/06 but you can't compare to just how much bigger it has gotten since then. NeoGaf and Amazon are even more prominent than they were, even if they were pominent then as well.
 

Taker34

Banned
Aug 15, 2013
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It was pretty clear that those who receive a defective console would act as if 50% of all PS4s are broken, while amazon shipped millions of consoles and while most people play with their PS4 system instead of rating it on Amazon, except if it doesn't work of course.

I don't get the fear of hardware failure, btw. So, then I should also be worried 24/7 about all my TVs, PCs or smartphones and that is paranoid. The gaming community is acting very weird sometimes, like aliens. Like little aliens.
 

Krisprolls

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True, but that's still a worryingly large amount of complaints in a short space of time. Sure some will be fake/trolling but even accounting for that, it's quite a bit more than normal imo. WiiU for example didn't have anything like that did it? (No jokes, it sold a lot at launch)

I'm monitoring this closely as mine is on preorder with Amazon UK. Might be tempted to cancel and wait till new year if this escalates.

Failure rates :

Xbox 360 – 54.2%
Playstation 3 – 10.6%
Wii – 6.8%

PS4 - 0.7 % ? (see calculation above, 1 on 140 in a shop)

Looks really low until now...


http://uk.ign.com/articles/2009/08/17/report-xbox-360-failure-rate-reaches-54
 

Popup

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Oct 20, 2007
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Is there a poll facility on Gaf? It would be interesting to have some stats..
 

Metfanant

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Jun 23, 2010
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check the other thread, and check reddit as well, vast majority of them Amazon orders.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716732

Thats not what I asked...you said "a lot" of the gaffers who ordered from Amazon had problems...that doesn't seem to be true...

Maybe "a lot" of the people with problems got them from Amazon...

...but thats also probably because more people got them from Amazon than most other places COMBINED
 

KORNdoggy

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Sep 20, 2013
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check the other thread, and check reddit as well, vast majority of them Amazon orders.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716732

And what are the numbers concerning the amazon orders that are working fine?

Even if 10,000 people on reddit said their PS4 was DOA. If amazon sold 1,000,000 thats still only 1%, which is well within normal for a mass produced consumer electronics device.

The way people are talking about this you'd think we had another 360 on our hands...lol. We MIGHT do, i'm not saying it's impossible, but right now it's just fear mongering and people with an agenda WANTING it to be a RROD situation so they can point and laugh.

It's been a single day since launch. How about we wait a while before crying into our pillow?
 

The_Lump

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Feb 11, 2012
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Krisprolls

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Yeah it's a rough estimate, 140 consoles are not enough of a sample.

Still, why be worried about <1 % defect rate if every console default rate was bigger before ?
 

Papercuts

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Sep 1, 2007
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Ok so here are the stats : it's 0,71 % default rate here, so perfectly acceptable, case closed.

For comparison sake, Xbox 360 had 45 % default rate if I remember correctly.

It's still an assumption based on thinking all 140 of those units were bought, immediately hooked up and used fairly extensively. Many people are just buying stuff as gifts.

And the 360 didn't have a 45% defect rate on DAY ONE. Nothing would ever be that bad.

It's way too early to be freaking out over this, but I find all the people trying to use math and figure out percentages odd. Those will not be remotely accurate.
 

bootski

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Apr 8, 2013
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i think Sony said they're expecting .4% DOA right off the bat. if they pushed out a million units for this launch, that's gonna be about 4000 very unhappy people right off the bat. and that's not accounting for units damaged in transit or faults that are not accounted for.
 

LuchaShaq

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Jun 10, 2011
11,741
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interesting, but a lot gaffers who ordered their PS4's from Amazon has been experiencing the same issues.

Amazon is very good at putting something under review if they receive a bad percentage of issues on a high dollar/high volume item.

example - 3ds when the screen scratching thing came up.
 

Neff

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Feb 6, 2012
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I think what DistortionOfReality was trying to tell you is that you don't have perspective on how the launches were during 1995, 2000, 2004, 2006 were in terms of internet presence.

I get that. I'm comparing PS4's review/failure ratio to platforms released relatively recently like 360 S, 3DS, Vita, Wii U, and new tech generally. If accurate, and not some monstrously underhanded PR/FUD assault by competition, it does portray PS4 in a very poor light.
 

Xone9

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Jul 17, 2013
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wait a sec...

the fail rate for a first gen 360 was high, but at least you could play it for 4 months or so before it started happening....

these PS4's don't even work at first boot!
 

Flek

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Jul 31, 2006
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do we know how many maufactorin plants for ps4s are there? Also have we ever heard of a US gaffer who got a PS4 from a different plant then Hongfujin?

If sony has more manufacturing plants chances are really good that only the us units where manufactured @ Hongfujin. Because AFAIK they also box the consoles at the plant. So a sepereate one for US, Europe and Asia makes sense.

wait a sec...

the fail rate for a first gen 360 was high, but at least you could play it for 4 months or so before it started happening....

these PS4's don't even work at first boot!

lol? I prefer a console breaking right away instead of month later where i can´t even return it and loose save games and shit.
 

Elchele

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Aug 9, 2013
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wait a sec...

the fail rate for a first gen 360 was high, but at least you could play it for 4 months or so before it started happening....

these PS4's don't even work at first boot!

I prefer it this way, to be honest. You can get a refund or change the console
But what if other units start to fail in next few weeks?
 

The_Lump

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Feb 11, 2012
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And what are the numbers concerning the amazon orders that are working fine?

Even if 10,000 people on reddit said their PS4 was DOA. If amazon sold 1,000,000 thats still only 1%, which is well within normal for a mass produced consumer electronics device.

The way people are talking about this you'd think we had another 360 on our hands...lol. We MIGHT do, i'm not saying it's impossible, but right now it's just fear mongering and people with an agenda WANTING it to be a RROD situation so they can point and laugh.

It's been a single day since launch. How about we wait a while before crying into our pillow?


Or some people are genuinely concerned?

I'm not saying it's a huge deal right now, but cultivating this environment of reflexively writing of anything negative about PS4 as trolling/hyperbole is dangerous. Lets not do that.

If people are trying to blow this up, fine; shoot 'em down because as of now it's not a big deal.

But if people are really concerned, this is a good place to discuss, look at the numbers and analyse. Consumers have a right to do that.
 

KORNdoggy

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Sep 20, 2013
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wait a sec...

the fail rate for a first gen 360 was high, but at least you could play it for 4 months or so before it started happening....

these PS4's don't even work at first boot!

You claiming EVERYONE who bought a 360 had a working unit day 1?
 

Krisprolls

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May 20, 2010
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It's still an assumption based on thinking all 140 of those units were bought, immediately hooked up and used fairly extensively. Many people are just buying stuff as gifts.

And the 360 didn't have a 45% defect rate on DAY ONE. Nothing would ever be that bad.

It's way too early to be freaking out over this, but I find all the people trying to use math and figure out percentages odd. Those will not be remotely accurate.

And maybe the only default was a user error. So maybe the default is closer to zero, who knows.

My point is everybody is shouting to the sky the house is burning while the defect rate seems actually pretty good compared to nearly every piece of consumer electronics nowadays.

Especially compared to last gen consoles. If the defect rate was bad, with 1 million consoles out, you would have a lot more than a handful of posts on GAF and a lot more than 170 bad user ratings on Amazon. Those are strong anecdotal evidence that there is no widespread problem at all with PS4 hardware. 1% of 1 million is 10 000 after all.

Still, I agree we'll have to wait for some time before we conclude it's actually good.
 

The_Lump

Banned
Feb 11, 2012
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Yeah it's a rough estimate, 140 consoles are not enough of a sample.

Still, why be worried about <1 % defect rate if every console default rate was bigger before ?

Because this is after 1 day and there's not enough of a pool of data for ps4 yet. I can only compare it to 1 day after
WiiU
launch, for which I don't remember anything like that many complaints.
 

pants

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Feb 21, 2012
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Between PS4 and Knack I'm honestly starting to think that Cerny sold Sony a lie, and that he's way out of his depth considering the pedestal they (and we) have put him on. Or they (and we) were stupid and desperate.

There weren't even this many RRoDs on launch day. I have a very bad feeling about this.

 

Krisprolls

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May 20, 2010
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Because this is after 1 day and there's not enough of a pool of data for ps4 yet. I can only compare it to 1 day after
WiiU
launch, for which I don't remember anything like that many complaints.

You don't remember but it happened the same way since it happens with EVERY consumer electronics.
 

Tux

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Nov 14, 2006
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I get that. I'm comparing PS4's review/failure ratio to platforms released relatively recently like 360 S, 3DS, Vita, Wii U, and new tech generally. If accurate, and not some monstrously underhanded PR/FUD assault by competition, it does portray PS4 in a very poor light.

I would think that it would portray the PS4s that were actually faulty in a poor light not the whole PS brand. Not unless you want to see it that way (why would you do that unless you already have a bias?). The real questions should be how fast are the replacements sent out? What are Amazon and Sony doing about it?

Also, I suspect that the "underhanded PR/FUD assault by competition" exists on those reviews. But it's not all of them. Even some of the five star reviews get vetted. This happened the last launch and anytime new hyped games came out. Their was an influx of early reviews that looked cookie-cutter and shallow. I just read about 500 of the comments and I noticed that some of them use the same phraseology. Different people. Same writing stye. :/
 

KORNdoggy

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Sep 20, 2013
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Or some people are genuinely concerned?

I'm not saying it's a huge deal right now, but cultivating this environment of reflexively writing of anything negative about PS4 as trolling/hyperbole is dangerous. Lets not do that.

If people are trying to blow this up, fine; shoot 'em down because as of now it's not a big deal.

But if people are really concerned, this is a good place to discuss, look at the numbers and analyse. Consumers have a right to do that.

Oh, concern is fine. I'm worried myself being a UK buyer in 2 weeks time. BUT...i'm not looking at these dud consoles are going "OMG, almost half of them bust be defective" or thinking we have some 30% failure rate on our hands like the 360. And similarly, if i, myself receive a dud unit, i know it means very little when for every defect there is potentially 10,000 working consoles.

Being on that failure pile can be disheartening, i've been there, surface pro (day 1 dud) and 360 to name 2. But i'm not going to jump to conclusions over it. So far this is all normal. You get it replaced and all is well. If things change however, then yeah, we can start making the bold claims.
 

The_Lump

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Feb 11, 2012
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And maybe the only default was a user error. So maybe the default is closer to zero, who knows.

My point is everybody is shouting to the sky the house is burning while the defect rate seems actually pretty good compared to nearly every piece of consumer electronics nowadays.

Especially compared to last gen consoles. If the defect rate was bad, with 1 million consoles out, you would have a lot more than a handful of posts on GAF and a lot more than 170 bad user ratings on Amazon. Those are strong anecdotal evidence that there is no widespread problem at all with PS4 hardware. 1% of 1 million is 10 000 after all.

Still, I agree we'll have to wait for some time before we conclude it's actually good.


No, they aren't. If anything [what I can only assume are] Sony fans are shouting to the sky that everything is fine when only a few are saying otherwise and they really don't have enough evidence either way. Everyone needs to wait this out before concluding whether it is or isn't a problem. Right now, it's worth monitoring for sure.

You don't remember but it happened the same way since it happens with EVERY consumer electronics.

I disagree. I don't have figures to back that up but I did watch
WiiUs
launch closely and after 1 day we werent getting widespread reports of bricked systems outside of people bricking it themselves (turning off during update).

Oh, concern is fine. I'm worried myself being a UK buyer in 2 weeks time. BUT...i'm not looking at these dud consoles are going "OMG, almost half of them bust be defective" or thinking we have some 30% failure rate on our hands like the 360. And similarly, if i, myself receive a dud unit, i know it means very little when for every defect there is potentially 10,000 working consoles.

Being on that failure pile can be disheartening, i've been there, surface pro (day 1 dud) and 360 to name 2. But i'm not going to jump to conclusions over it. So far this is all normal. You get it replaced and all is well. If things change however, then yeah, we can start making the bold claims.

Yeah I'm not jumping to any conclusion at all either. Just don't like the amount of people who seem to be reflexively trying to sweep this aside. More data is needed either way, but imo it's not something to ignore completely.
 

Applecot

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Jun 13, 2012
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I prefer it this way, to be honest. You can get a refund or change the console
But what if other units start to fail in next few weeks?

That may be the case. Until we're well past the launch phase (we haven't even seen the EU launch yet) we have no idea how bad (or good) these numbers are going to be.

Like I mentioned before, the only way you can guarantee a broken PS4 is to put it through a blender.
 

LordCanti

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May 8, 2011
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590
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Man...I have to wait till Tuesday to find out if I got a borked one since Amazon failed to send me my pre-order. If it's broken on top of late....fffffffffuuuuuuuuu.