Support NeoGAF

[RPS37]

Always slightly more impressed by stuff after I watch a DF Analysis.

 

[Romulus]

I wasn't arguing the fact that it makes a game look great by its self, but you have to take into consideration why when one game is pushing 60fps and 4x the resolution does one look like it has more detailed back ground environments? TLoU2 will be like the first and a very static environment, it's silly comparisons to have.

My issue was its ike asking why CoD doesn't look as detailed as Uncharted. Games targeting totally different genres and goals.

If Sony ever release a FPS again I hope people don't go expecting as much detail as their story telling walking pace games, we won't be getting a truely noticeable generational jump here. My 1080ti puts out games in the same vicinity of my X in a visual perspective (not the framerate). Games will look better on the PS5 nextbox, but will they look as good as any previous jump? Nah, they'll use the resources for higher resolutions and frame rates, which I'm actually all for.

I know you weren't arguing that, I was just making that statement to go with my point. Halo infinite hasn't proven itself to look great while pushing all those tech goodies and maintaining 4k 60fps. We've seen a couple of cut scenes with zero gameplay but people are taking it as gospel, so it really is senseless to argue anything until they show how it really looks with all the bells and whistles.
Until then, we can compare cutscenes, and in my opinion, some current-gen titles are more impressive, despite the technical limitations to frames and resolution. Should it be me more impressive considering Halo is doing more(in a small confined space)? I don't think so, not considering how underpowered current gen is compared to next gen. PS4 and the original Xbox one are completely outdated and that might be part of the problem if 343 is forced to port this to the old machine.
I actualy think ps4 Horizon is more impressive in ways considering its full open world, and I don't doubt we'll see that at 4k 60fps next gen.

 

[pawel86ck]

I wasn't arguing the fact that it makes a game look great by its self, but you have to take into consideration why when one game is pushing 60fps and 4x the resolution does one look like it has more detailed back ground environments? TLoU2 will be like the first and a very static environment, it's silly comparisons to have.

My issue was its ike asking why CoD doesn't look as detailed as Uncharted. Games targeting totally different genres and goals.

If Sony ever release a FPS again I hope people don't go expecting as much detail as their story telling walking pace games, we won't be getting a truely noticeable generational jump here. My 1080ti puts out games in the same vicinity of my X in a visual perspective (not the framerate). Games will look better on the PS5 nextbox, but will they look as good as any previous jump? Nah, they'll use the resources for higher resolutions and frame rates, which I'm actually all for.

I expect both consoles will be close to 1080ti performance, and people who game on 1080ti know already what to expect from GPU like that and new consoles. It's very hard to max out PS4 / XBOXO games on 1080ti if you aim at 4K 60fps target. Rise Of The Tomb Raider run with 45fps dips maxed out, so I was using high settings, or max settings at 1800p. I sold my 1080ti just before shadow of the tomb raider has launched on PC, but that game runs even worse compared to ROTTR (according to benchmarks 40fps average). Even 2080ti struggles and cant provide solid 60fps in this game at 4K (game made with current gen consoles in mind), and that's 1200$ GPU!

During PS3 / X360 era games run at 720p already, so going to 1080p on XBOX ONE / PS4 wasnt so big resolution boost as going from 1080p to 4K now (you need 4x more powerful GPU to run the same game at 4K 30fps, and 8x to run 4K at 60fps). People here mention The last of us part 2, and although graphics looks great it's just 1080p 30fps game (probably with 25fps dips there and there) so it's 8x less demanding than Halo Infinite running at 4K 60fps. There's no way xbox scarlett or PS5 will run games at 4K 60fps and provide much higher graphics fidelity than the best looking PS4 / xbox one games, there's simply no GPU resources for that even if new consoles would use 2080ti GPU equivalent. Im sure developers who will target 30fps and 1440p on next gen console will be able to increase graphics fidelity as it was before (PS3 vs PS4), but not at 4K 60fps target.

Keeping that in mind I'm impressed how halo infinite looks, because not only game runs at 4K 60fps but provide some really amazing details. Indirect lighting and shadows looks stunning, even small objects are round and detailed and textures quality is INSANE (at 4K stream texture fine details just pop and that's just low quality YT stream). I'm guessing halo infinite use well over 10GB VRAM for textures alone but finally we can see textures that look razor sharp even at 4K (there are some games on xbox x that also run at 4K but with much worse textures). Game looks beautiful considering 4K 60fps target and IMO people who expect much more from next gen consoles will be really disappointed.

 

[Romulus]

I expect both consoles will be close to 1080ti performance, and people who game on 1080ti know already what to expect from GPU like that and new consoles. It's very hard to max out PS4 / XBOXO games on 1080ti if you aim at 4K 60fps target. Rise Of The Tomb Raider run with 45fps dips maxed out, so I was using high settings, or max settings at 1800p. I sold my 1080ti just before shadow of the tomb raider has launched on PC, but that game runs even worse compared to ROTTR (according to benchmarks 40fps average). Even 2080ti struggles and cant provide solid 60fps in this game at 4K (game made with current gen consoles in mind), and that's 1200$ GPU!

During PS3 / X360 era games run at 720p already, so going to 1080p on XBOX ONE / PS4 wasnt so big resolution boost as going from 1080p to 4K now (you need 4x more powerful GPU to run the same game at 4K 30fps, and 8x to run 4K at 60fps). People here mention The last of us part 2, and although graphics looks great it's just 1080p 30fps game (probably with 25fps dips there and there) so it's 8x less demanding than Halo Infinite running at 4K 60fps. There's no way xbox scarlett or PS5 will run games at 4K 60fps and provide much higher graphics fidelity than the best looking PS4 / xbox one games, there's simply no GPU resources for that even if new consoles would use 2080ti GPU equivalent. Im sure developers who will target 30fps and 1440p on next gen console will be able to increase graphics fidelity as it was before (PS3 vs PS4), but not at 4K 60fps target.

Keeping that in mind I'm impressed how halo infinite looks, because not only game runs at 4K 60fps but provide some really amazing details. Indirect lighting and shadows looks stunning, even small objects are round and detailed and textures quality is INSANE (at 4K stream texture fine details just pop and that's just low quality YT stream). I'm guessing halo infinite use well over 10GB VRAM for textures alone but finally we can see textures that look razor sharp even at 4K (there are some games on xbox x that also run at 4K but with much worse textures). Game looks beautiful considering 4K 60fps target and IMO people who expect much more from next gen consoles will be really disappointed.

I think it's difficult to compare cards and match performance against consoles when first party studios are pushing them.

And one huge point I don't see mentioned in your post is the cpu upgrade next gen. The development point you make in terms of framerate, and to a much lesser degree resolution, almost excludes the cpu entirely as a factor, and that makes sense because there's really nothing remotely modern that matches a jaguar because its complete and utter trash. So the comparison is force limited in your case to a GPU comparison, which in my opinion, is unfair.

Let me get this out of the way first. I am in no way suggesting we see 4k 60fps across the boord with high settings. Not even close. and especially not with goodies like ray tracking. HELL NO.

What I am saying is the difference between a Jaguar and Zen 2 is an absolute monster gulf in power. And considering some of the best developers in the world will be allowed to take advantage of that in a closed box after years of squeezing water out of a stone with a tablet cpu, I am convinced we will see massive differences on the first party front. I see huge differences especially if they decide to use/improve checkboard dynamic solutions to really bolster performance even more. Even more if they go with performance modes at the 1800p checkboard range, high settings, and 60fps on many high fidelity large open world titles. Even 4k 60fps in some cases.

Why? It's not just the cpu.

This is the first time I can remember that consoles are launching without an obvious Achilles heel. Not to say they're high end PCs, but past generations consoles have had either 1) very limited memory 2) extremely underpowered cpu or gpu. 3) all of the above.

This is the first time these big studios get the advantage of working with closed boxes that aren't don't have a huge anchor but actually somewhat well rounded low-med tier gaming PCs. There are no obvious, massive downfalls to work around. I honestly think a lowly X1X with paired with a Zen 2 would do wonders with first studios and that's only 6TF, we'll get at least another 3TF along with more/better memory. I actually see more 60fps games next gen than this gen, and that's at high settings and a 4k or checkboard solution.

 

[Wimbledon]

It will be a painful wait, but until then i just need to upgrade my PC to run Halo Infinite at it's best. Also will need to buy a 4k monitor.

 

[pawel86ck]

According to NXGamer Halo Infinife was running on Xbox X. He has even analysed performance (42-50 fps dips). Personally I still think it was xbox scarlett version running, textures quality looks extremely good, and even on 2080ti if you max out details you will see shadows imperfections he points out. If people expect 4K 60fps and much increased graphics fidelity (perfect shadows, lighting, much improved polygon counts at the same time) they will be very disappointed.

 

[Mass Shift]

According to NXGamer Halo Infinife was running on Xbox X. He has even analysed performance (42-50 fps dips). Personally I still think it was xbox scarlett version running, textures quality looks extremely good, and even on 2080ti if you max out details you will see shadows imperfections he points out. If people expect 4K 60fps and much increased graphics fidelity (perfect shadows, lighting, much improved polygon counts at the same time) they will be very disappointed.

Considering that it's going to be a cross gen title I'm leaning towards this being an X1X demonstration.

 

[Armorian]

According to NXGamer Halo Infinife was running on Xbox X. He has even analysed performance (42-50 fps dips). Personally I still think it was xbox scarlett version running, textures quality looks extremely good, and even on 2080ti if you max out details you will see shadows imperfections he points out. If people expect 4K 60fps and much increased graphics fidelity (perfect shadows, lighting, much improved polygon counts at the same time) they will be very disappointed.

X1X have tons of RAM for textures and that's rarely used. It was a tech demo and IMO it didn't look that great to not be able to run on X1X.

 

[Aintitcool]

This is what next gen looks like when you have only 3 months to port to next gen. Also disappointed the DF critic is talking about magic TAA solutions rather than the more realistic idea that the trailer was captured in 8k and downsampled to produce the sharp 4k trailer.

 

[pawel86ck]

X1X have tons of RAM for textures and that's rarely used. It was a tech demo and IMO it didn't look that great to not be able to run on X1X.

Sorry but I havent seen game on my xbox x that would look as impressive as Halo infinite. Xbox x is barely capable of 4K native 30fps (even many games advertised as 4K native are in fact 4K dynamic, for example gears of war 4) and not to mention 60fps and with textures like in this halo trailer. This trailer is impressive and even on my old 1080ti I havent seen better looking game besides UE4 tech demos. There's no way xbox x would run it.

 

[Armorian]

Sorry but I havent seen game on my xbox x that would look as impressive as Halo infinite. Xbox x is barely capable of 4K native 30fps (even many games advertised as 4K native is 4K dynamic, for example gears of war 4) and not to mention 60fps and with textures like in this halo trailer. This trailer is impressive and even on my old 1080ti I havent seen better looking game besides UE4 tech demos. There's no way xbox x would run it.

We still don't have games that looks as good as "Wizard" PS4 demo and it was running real time on 1.8TF console. I think X1X is perfectly capable of running this demo but how it will fare in full game... we will see.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Sorry but I havent seen game on my xbox x that would look as impressive as Halo infinite. Xbox x is barely capable of 4K native 30fps (even many games advertised as 4K native are in fact 4K dynamic, for example gears of war 4) and not to mention 60fps and with textures like in this halo trailer. This trailer is impressive and even on my old 1080ti I havent seen better looking game besides UE4 tech demos. There's no way xbox x would run it.

I think it's too contained and therefore easy to trick, just look at what Naughty Dog did in the Uncharted 4 cut scenes on a base PS4:

Remember that the Master Chief has no body hair or facial details to render!

I don't claim that the quality is exactly equivalent, but the differences aren't that striking, I mean yeah they can make all the details they want on the inside of an escape pod that is shown in a cut scene, we can look at the first Uncharted 4 60 fps footage as an example of what's possible in real time in a perfectly controlled environment.



I think it makes sense for it to look like it does on the xbox one x, especially if they use the extra memory to store textures.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

I really didn't see next gen there. Maybe because it was a stream but it looked top end this gen.

 

[Romulus]