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[Digital Foundry] Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora PC - An Incredible Showcase For Cutting-Edge Real-Time Graphics

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Physiognomonics

Member
SlimySnake said:
Nah, the foliage density in HFW is definitely behind Avatar. Avatar not only has more foliage, it has different kinds of foliage. Like literally dozens of different plants, grass, and trees in one area compared to maybe half a dozen in a HFW screen. HFW does do a great job masking its last gen roots but once you play Avatar it will become abundantly clear why its foliage is leagues ahead of horizon.

You can see it not just in your gif but in this screenshot below. Maybe 6 different types of trees, plants and grass at best.
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FUTDVQAXEAYKU2e


Here is a random area in Avatar.

HG5bf53.gif


ptOCgwb.gif



And while those particular rocks good in HFW, the rest of the game has severe issues with rock rendering and draw distance. I have covered it ad nauseum in the graphics fidelity thread. Its not a knock on HFW. its held back by last gen hardware, and it will be fixed when H3 comes out in 2027, but right now rendering rocks is not its strongest suit.


FMFvR8YXwAItxPw

FcenHWiWQAQ08UQ

FMFvSt7XoAQKzmI



FMOkGR5WUAckE6J


I dont have any footage of rocks and pebbles but they are also a leap forward. You can see it as soon as you look on the ground. I did a sky islands mission yesterday and the floating rocks looked stunning. Very highly detailed Just like those pics you posted of Horizon.

Horizon had its time. It held the title of the best looking game of the generation for almost two years, but Avatar has fixed all of its shortcomings while expanding of its strengths. GG didnt have the ability to design the game around next gen specs like Massive did. So the fact that HFW is even in the picture is an accomplishment itself. However, its clear that Avatar is a significant leap forward.
Click to expand...
Horizon does that while having much higher resolution though in both respective modes, like 2x higher on average? Different goals. Besides while Horizon vegetation is less diverse, there are actually more individual stuff moving. Like the number of grass blades is higher in Horizon vs the tropical leaves. And aren't rocks more detailed with higher resolution textures in Horizon? Not sure here but it seems so.

What's impressive in Avatar is obviously RTGI and RT reflections, meaning their engine is currently more advanced than Decima overall. Here it's Guerrilla's fault that their engine is still rooted in PS4 hardware.
 
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Masterofchapter

Member
Physiognomonics said:
Horizon does that while having much higher resolution though in both respective modes, like 2x higher on average? Different goals. Besides while Horizon vegetation is less diverse, there are actually more individual stuff moving. Like the number of grass blades is higher in Horizon vs the tropical leaves. And aren't rocks more detailed with higher resolution textures in Horizon? Not sure here but it seems so.

What's impressive in Avatar is obviously RTGI and RT reflections, meaning their engine is currently more advanced than Decima overall. Here it's Guerrilla's fault that their engine is still rooted in PS4 hardware.
Click to expand...
Horizon foilage looks plastic compared to avatar and upper plains foilage looks much more dense than horizon
 
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Physiognomonics

Member
Masterofchapter said:
Horizon foilage looks plastic compared to avatar and upper plains foilage looks much more dense than horizon
Click to expand...
Isn't thanks to the RTGI lighting in Avatar? Horizon has a big problem with it's PS4 level lighting. I agree it does look more dense in Avatar because they have being smart with the diversity of the foliage. What's impressive in Horizon is the grass (the sheer number of it) but they basically have 2 types of grass from memory, one you can hide in (quite impressive rendering with physics) and the one you can't.
 
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playsaves3

Member
Gameplay Gods Bless said:
Neither Xbox nor PS5 are holding back PC at Unobtanium settings. I wouldn't be surprised if not even the PS6 will be able to run Avatar at Unobtanium settings at 60fps. Very similar to Control last gen, the PS4 and X1 ran the game at lower settings while the PC version was state of the art technology with RT GI (like Avatar but on a last gen game which is 8nsane to imagine), RT Reflections, RT Shadows and RT AO.

The PS5 comes out with next gen hardware, 7 years of hardware advancement since the PS4 and it still can't run control at max settings, 0 RT GI and only RT reflections and shadows at lower fidelity because those are easier to run. Maybe the PS6 will be able to run control like the 2080ti could 5 years ago and maybe it'll be able to run Avatar at Unobtanium settings but I guarantee you the PS5 and PS5 Pro will absolutely not, this game screams on PC regardless of what the consoles are capable of.
Click to expand...
The pro potentially could do it at like 1080p 30 but no one will buy a pro for something like that
 
Gameplay Gods Bless

Gameplay Gods Bless

Member
playsaves3 said:
The pro potentially could do it at like 1080p 30 but no one will buy a pro for something like that
Click to expand...
It's certainly possibility but maybe not part of the problem is that somethings that work well on PC are a big struggle for consoles or just flat out wasteful to enable on consoles. A good example of this is anisotropic filtering, PC has been able to run 16X AF effortlessly since the PS3 era but consoles struggle to because AF puts a heavy strain on the unified memory bandwidth of the consoles. PC GPUs have their own memory so this isn't an issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the "fuck it turn the knob up to max" in the Unobtanium settings may just not be ideal in a console scenario. What id personally love to see is path traced games like Minecraft RTX built from the ground up for the PS5 Pro. I don't think MS will do it but the Series X could run Minecraft RTX at generally 30fps, PS5 Pro should be able to handle it and other game like it. Imagine Uncharted 2 Path Traced or Little Big Planet 1 or 2, any older Sony game could be a great candidate.
 
sendit

sendit

Member
SlimySnake said:
Nah, the foliage density in HFW is definitely behind Avatar. Avatar not only has more foliage, it has different kinds of foliage. Like literally dozens of different plants, grass, and trees in one area compared to maybe half a dozen in a HFW screen. HFW does do a great job masking its last gen roots but once you play Avatar it will become abundantly clear why its foliage is leagues ahead of horizon.

You can see it not just in your gif but in this screenshot below. Maybe 6 different types of trees, plants and grass at best.

Here is a random area in Avatar.

And while those particular rocks good in HFW, the rest of the game has severe issues with rock rendering and draw distance. I have covered it ad nauseum in the graphics fidelity thread. Its not a knock on HFW. its held back by last gen hardware, and it will be fixed when H3 comes out in 2027, but right now rendering rocks is not its strongest suit.


I dont have any footage of rocks and pebbles but they are also a leap forward. You can see it as soon as you look on the ground. I did a sky islands mission yesterday and the floating rocks looked stunning. Very highly detailed Just like those pics you posted of Horizon.

Horizon had its time. It held the title of the best looking game of the generation for almost two years, but Avatar has fixed all of its shortcomings while expanding of its strengths. GG didnt have the ability to design the game around next gen specs like Massive did. So the fact that HFW is even in the picture is an accomplishment itself. However, its clear that Avatar is a significant leap forward.
Click to expand...
Nice narrative. Comparing a animated GIF (down sized no less) to direct images (of Horizon) where flaws become more glaring.

 
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playsaves3

Member
Gameplay Gods Bless said:
It's certainly possibility but maybe not part of the problem is that somethings that work well on PC are a big struggle for consoles or just flat out wasteful to enable on consoles. A good example of this is anisotropic filtering, PC has been able to run 16X AF effortlessly since the PS3 era but consoles struggle to because AF puts a heavy strain on the unified memory bandwidth of the consoles. PC GPUs have their own memory so this isn't an issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the "fuck it turn the knob up to max" in the Unobtanium settings may just not be ideal in a console scenario. What id personally love to see is path traced games like Minecraft RTX built from the ground up for the PS5 Pro. I don't think MS will do it but the Series X could run Minecraft RTX at generally 30fps, PS5 Pro should be able to handle it and other game like it. Imagine Uncharted 2 Path Traced or Little Big Planet 1 or 2, any older Sony game could be a great candidate.
Click to expand...
I was saying I think there is a way the pro could run it instead of not run it at all it just wouldn’t be the way we want to run it
 
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