iceatcs
Junior Member
Wat?
Not for me, I need 4K everything. 1440p is not enough that can see much difference to 4K.
Maybe it is depend of screen size.
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Digital Foundry :- Does resolution really matter?
- Thread starter DHC-Shannow
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Wat?
Not for me, I need 4K everything. 1440p is not enough that can see much difference to 4K.
Maybe it is depend of screen size.
Yea I just saw that post a bit late.dark10x said:
Anyway I was surprised with how we perceive resolution in VR headsets as I expected it'd be most obvious there (and personally I kind of hate dropping res when TV gaming nowadays), I suppose it's a bit like old CRT days when resolution changes were less offensive too.
aspiegamer
Member
Although the piece would be absurd without this, this survey and the plastering of results right in the article amplify the stupidity. He honestly should probably have just not mentioned it. It's very literally "I like this thing more because reasons ("brand") and I'm going to sit down and tell you why the reason you like your thing is wrong. Also, you have a big fat stupid face, are a meanie and have cooties."
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Last gen every single missing line of pixels mattered greatly. Now a rather massive difference like 1080p vs 900p is just, eh, whatever. I mean, resolution isn't the only thing that matters (although I vastly prefer games to run at my TV's native resolution, upscaling never looks good), but it just seems like the differences in inferior PS3 ports last gen were presented as much more important than they are now that it's usually the other way around.
Handy Fake
Member
it is one of thw top reason cited for people buying a ps4. this is factually wrong, and considering this is even in the DF aeticle itself, you clearly didnt even read it.
Derpcrawler
Member
Of course resolution matters, that's why I gave up on this weak ass generation of "next-gen" consoles which were outclassed by my 5 year old PC that could do everything they did, but in 1080p and most games at 60FPS.
Now after I upgraded to Haswell-E, I think I am good till PS6.
Now after I upgraded to Haswell-E, I think I am good till PS6.
ScepticMatt
Member
I know about that study. Even though they can identify it, it doesn't mean there is a viewer preference.
For 3 picture heights, the ITU/EBU studies showed that differences are below error margins.
In any case, higher contrast and higher frame rates are much more important.
From Hollywood Professionals Alliance Tech Retreat.
So what? Because he wrote more articles for the PC he can't never expressed his implicit favour for a single console in the others? Seriously? I never said he biased some company. I said he definitely prefer one over another. What the hell of conspiracy is it think he prefers a company to another? To me seems undeniable.
People are irrational and dogmatic on this issue. Sure it matters. No it doesn't matter that much.
This gen's two best-looking games are both sub-1080p on consoles (Ryse and The Order). Would they look even better at 1080p? I guess. But the fact of the matter is that resolution is only one of many many factors. Since it's an easy one to put a number to, people on these boards get silly and make it a deal breaker.
The article's most important findings was not expanded on, but it was the blind test. I fully suspect a large majority of people would not tell the difference between a game at 1080p and 900p, all other IQ settings being equal.
This gen's two best-looking games are both sub-1080p on consoles (Ryse and The Order). Would they look even better at 1080p? I guess. But the fact of the matter is that resolution is only one of many many factors. Since it's an easy one to put a number to, people on these boards get silly and make it a deal breaker.
The article's most important findings was not expanded on, but it was the blind test. I fully suspect a large majority of people would not tell the difference between a game at 1080p and 900p, all other IQ settings being equal.
1080p is better than 900p it's simple as that. What does that have to do with buying a PC?
resolution makes a difference when comparing images back and forth or side by side. unless you somehow play multiple consoles at once its not really all that important in practice, its mainly ammo for fan boy wars.
the gamespot version test video is worth the watch. it would be nice to see someone do a similar test with more subjects, maybe 10 casual and 10 hardcore tech junkies/gamers. maybe do a test where only one version is running at a time as well to double check first test answers. the results would probably be similar to the video I would guess.
the gamespot version test video is worth the watch. it would be nice to see someone do a similar test with more subjects, maybe 10 casual and 10 hardcore tech junkies/gamers. maybe do a test where only one version is running at a time as well to double check first test answers. the results would probably be similar to the video I would guess.
icecold1983
Member
theres no point even arguing with people who would prefer to spend 400% more performance on resolution. thats like 7 releases of gpu improvements gone to nothing but resolution. sooooo dumb.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I sit very close to my TV when playing games so res is very important to me .
Of course some good AA with sub 1080p games can help but 1080p and good AA is even better .
Of course some good AA with sub 1080p games can help but 1080p and good AA is even better .
Ok, how's this?
Can you see changes happening on a microscopic level with your naked eye? No? That's because as things get smaller, the differences become more difficult for you to identify, which also applies to any resolution gains on a TV of the same size. That's not to say you can't notice a difference, but you'll notice it a lot less than a similar change at lower resolutions.
I'm inclined to agree, but where is the justification for it in the article? Any studies mentioning or showing perceptual differences between the different resolutions. Or possibly showing where IQ is lost by scaling and what is gained by post-proc. There are a few quotes from people but that is about it.
Like for example 'Lately every single time there is something of negative about the ps4, he was in first line for the article'
Your words are perfect example of a conspiracy theory.
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And where does anyone say that it isnt? Within the same render of course.
I can provide some but am on mobile at the moment.
The Ryse and Order comparison you make is disingenuous. Ryse is 900p which gets upscaled, Order is native red with black bars. So Order has inherently higher IQ.
Where is exactly the conspiracy theory? O_O Just to say, I need to link the later articles of him about the ps4 or the xbone just to show to you his different 'approach on both console?
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I know about that study. Even though they can identify it, it doesn't mean there is a viewer preference.
For 3 picture heights, the ITU/EBU studies showed that differences are below error margins.
In any case, higher contrast and higher frame rates are much more important.
From Hollywood Professionals Alliance Tech Retreat.
Never heard of this, do you have a link for it?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Is it? I mean, I don't know how well-researched this particular chart is or how accurate the numbers are, but the reasoning behind it is sound. It's obvious that as you move farther and farther away from your TV, without it getting larger, the difference you can notice by going to higher and higher resolutions diminishes. Past a certain point 720p will look as good as 4K. It's simple reasoning. Humans don't have infinitely sharp vision. Of course, it will also differ from person to person based on how good your vision is, so it's true that one chart cannot fit all.
That he writes article only when he can "punish PS4" somehow?
Which is not even what this article is about.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
Of course it matters. I've got a 65" TV.
As for mentioning the Gamespot 'research' blind testing if people could tell the difference between PC, Xbone and PS4?
He tricked everyone with Unity. However, the 'trick' aside, any test to see if people can see differences should not contain Unity in any case due to parity.
It was badly conceived nonsense.
As for mentioning the Gamespot 'research' blind testing if people could tell the difference between PC, Xbone and PS4?
He tricked everyone with Unity. However, the 'trick' aside, any test to see if people can see differences should not contain Unity in any case due to parity.
It was badly conceived nonsense.
I don't think its really a case of people being able to see the difference, or looking for the difference its more a "why get the weaker console when I can get the more powerful one for the same price". When people google PS4 v X1 the first thing that probably pops up is the power difference. And this becomes the determining factor. Who doesn't want to get their money's worth?
kingkenny76
Member
I never said he punished ps4. I said he's incredibly subtle to write article for different hardware.
Near as I can tell in the previous gen it mattered an absolute fuck ton even when going from 720p to like 680p or the like. From this gen I've learned from DF that resolution now only matters if Microsoft res is higher than Sony. If it is then it matters so mostly this gen it doesn't matter.
FullMetaltech
Member
Im baffled that he thinks over a year into the consoles that resolution isnt really a deciding factor. Im pretty sure that a dual console owner looking to buy the best version for thier buck will look at both specs of the game and see 1080p and 900p and buy the 1080p version.
I think the point with The Order is that the developers likely benefited a fair bit in terms of pushing graphics by rendering at a reduced resolution. There's no scaling necessary, but the general idea is the same.
Brad Grenz
Member
There's no research behind those charts. It's just a mathematical extrapolation based on the standard vision test they give you as a child. Sine that metric measures vision using black and white images of reflected light it is not clear it applies at all for motion, color and emitted light, not to mention the artifacts inherent to real-time 3D graphics which are all exacerbated severely by low rendering resolution and scaling.
Handy Fake
Member
I think the issue with regards to this article (and others of the ilk) is that he's taking what is essentially a large advantage that the PS4 has over it's rival and passing it off as inconsequential. I think even an objective observer can see a reoccurring theme.
ScepticMatt
Member
Slides aren't online yet, only what people said about it:
e.g.
http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/hpa-tech-retreat-2015-day-1
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/138-avs-forum-podcasts/1908769-tales-hpa-tech-retreat.html
As for other studies (from SMPTE webinar, also not online):
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-latest-industry-news/1609674-smpte-webinar-quad-hd-uhdtv.html
older ITU test 2246.06b
http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/opb/rep/R-REP-BT.2246-1-2012-PDF-E.pdf
Portugeezer
Member
I recently upgraded my PC monitor from 1600x900 to 1080p, and I found it difficult to notice much difference except for the Windows UI looking smaller. But if I make my games run at 900p they look a blurry mess.
Being the native resolution of the display is what really matters, that is what I care about and why I prefer 1080p for my PS4 games. Would probably be good to use a 900p monitor for some XB1 games.
It's a fallacy to imply that people only notice side by side or that it's for fanboy ammo. When I played BF4 on PS4 I could notice that it wasn't 1080p. Now, I still enjoyed the game so did it "matter" as far as making me not enjoy the game? No.
Being the native resolution of the display is what really matters, that is what I care about and why I prefer 1080p for my PS4 games. Would probably be good to use a 900p monitor for some XB1 games.
It's a fallacy to imply that people only notice side by side or that it's for fanboy ammo. When I played BF4 on PS4 I could notice that it wasn't 1080p. Now, I still enjoyed the game so did it "matter" as far as making me not enjoy the game? No.
I agree with you that it would largely be wasteful, but I'm not so sure the consoles are going to make a push for it. They might tout it early on as something they can do, but I could see developers largely sticking to 1080p. At the distance I sit from my TV I don't think I would get much benefit from 4K unless I got a 90-100" TV, and I am someone who has a much better eye for resolution differences than the average consumer. I really don't think 4K is going to be enough of a reason for most people to buy a new TV. The jump to HDTV's not only brought a resolution increase, but it also brought much larger, thinner, lighter, and "smarter" TV's. At this point most people are fairly happy with the size of their TV's in relation to the size of their viewing areas, and I don't think the jump to the ~100" that will be needed for the resolution difference to take real effect is practical for most people.
I would rather see the next console generation stick to 1080p and focus on better AA methods instead of a jump in resolution. I just think about what they could manage on consoles five years from now when they can focus all of the added power on increasing the graphical quality and physics instead of throwing most of it at a resolution that simply won't make a difference for most people. 4K makes perfect sense for PC gaming at a desk, but I just don't see it making sense in the console space for many years.
That survey is bonkers. Nintendo gamers buy the system to have fun, Xbots are fanboys and PS4 purchases are over fear of resolving too many pixels.
Dafuq?
And what exactly do You want him to say in 'comparison' articles, so not even this the thread is about?
Xbox one sucks? - it does not
900p sucks? - it does not
900p to 1080p difference on TVs is big? - it isnt
resolution is more important than fidelity? - it does not
resolution is more important than framerate? - it does not, and that would hurt if devs pushed 1080p in some games on Xbone
There is nothing more he wrote in any of his articles in recent years, so where is that negativity over PS4, or downplaying differences in Xbone hardware?
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But thats the thing, the difference isnt 'large', its meaningful, but generally it all comes to 900p to 1080p resolution difference in most games and this difference isnt large, it is noticeable, especially on monitors, but it isnt large. It really depends of the user home setup.
Large is 30 to 60fps difference, it affects everyone and everything about the game.
Well that's no doubt true, but its far more arguable how much this really matters to people beyond using it as a 'this number is bigger so its better' aspect.
All the sub 720p games last gen and very few people paid it any attention. I think resolution, while not unimportant by any means, and DF does not say that either, has become more of a buzzword than something that is genuinely important to the average person.
Vroadstar
Member
+1 I couldn't agree more
SneakyStephan
Banned
Scaling blur is terrible, no matter what some eurogamer shill says.
Backfoggen
Banned
What an unnecessary article. I normally don't care about whether or not DF comments about gameplay and stuff but this is completely out of place for a tech analysis site/blog whatever.
mejin
Member
Xbox is not bad, PlayStation 4 is just better.
You have the answer under your quote. If you are not sensible to those 'details', well, it's your problem. There is nothing of conspiracy here.
DF article saying "res reductions well-handled on Xbox One"... is that a new term now?
Even if you want to discount the resolution differences you should point out that the PS4 is capable of doing more when you even out the resolutions, yet all they say is "removing resolution as most crucial factor in overall image quality, both PlayStation 4 and Xbox One games stand to benefit."
Oh, so like Tomb Raider Definitive Edition which gives double the frame-rate on the PS4 version isn't worth pointing out, but both consoles stand to benefit from even resolutions? This article is incapable of really pointing out the PS4 advantage.
Even if you want to discount the resolution differences you should point out that the PS4 is capable of doing more when you even out the resolutions, yet all they say is "removing resolution as most crucial factor in overall image quality, both PlayStation 4 and Xbox One games stand to benefit."
Oh, so like Tomb Raider Definitive Edition which gives double the frame-rate on the PS4 version isn't worth pointing out, but both consoles stand to benefit from even resolutions? This article is incapable of really pointing out the PS4 advantage.
Handy Fake
Member
I think that's semantics with regards to what I said. Even if you substitute "meaningful" into it, the point stands, non?
And he never wrote otherwise, so where is that Xbox bias?
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I'm very sensitive to it, but most people arent, thats the point. Even most people on GAF arent, going how people defended The Order's post-processing.
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But this article isnt about comparison between multiplatforms.I think that's semantics with regards to what I said. Even if you substitute "meaningful" into it, the point stands, non?
It is comparison between spending GPU buget on fidelity over resolution and which gives higher returns. If You checked few links that were posted in article, one shows Ridge Racer 1080p next to Avatar framegrab. One has higher resolution and clarity, but is looking significantly worse.
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