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Digital Foundry Face-Off: Dragon Age: Inquisition
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
Then why are you guys worrying so much? What do you guys wat for DF? Would you guys be happy if the If they say: BUY the vastly superior PS4 version, if you buy the xbox one version you are a fool for buying a inferior product and you should not enjoy it at all.
Seems to me that's what you guys want to read, which is like... alright I guess if that makes your life better go for it.
Tidus_Great
Banned
lmao, for real who the hell has a ps4 or xbone and still owns an old ass 720p TV? 1080p tvs are cheap now even the 40-50 inchers,.
And the tools they used to take the measurements?
Tidus_Great
Banned
that makes no sense. 1080p is present all the time. whereas framerate drop only happens rarely. 1080p is much more worth it.
now if we had framerate drops of 5FPS during 25% of the game you might have a point. Rational people will go with 1080p for now though thank you very much.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
Considering only about 4 games are at non-native resolutions on the PS4, I think it's something people assume.
900p
Watch Dogs
Assassin's Creed Unity -
Battlefield 4
UFC
This is not about being rational or irrational, it's about having different sensitivities, viewing setups, etc. Some people are very sensitive to framedrops, some people aren't. Some people have displays and viewing distances that exacerbate a non-native resolution image, some people not so much. Neither of these types of people are "wrong" or "irrational," they're just different.
toddhunter
Member
I have a 720p TV... So yes.
As a real example? I play TLoU at the 30fps option. Why? Well it is bloody hot in Australia at the moment and 60fps causes the fan to kick in. I'd rather the PS4 just takes it easy after this game and GTA5 killed my PS3.
The point is, options are good.
Should EA put in this option for Dragon Age? No. Doing extra dev work and having to support the options to get a couple more fps is nuts.
It is 1080p, it runs great, the job is done.
At a higher level than that, this focus on graphics annoys me anyway. Make it 600p and actually put some interesting AI in... Persistent npcs, job schedules... Anything. Slightly prettier AC is just a waste of the extra power.
As for the conspiracy angle, I'd just like to say the much more interesting take is not what Eurogamer does, it is what every other gaming sight does in regards to technical differences.
Which is basically nothing at all.
statham
Member
*waves*
edit: have 3 720p TVs and a 3D projector. bought them last gen and so far haven't seen a need to upgrade, I still think games look great on them.
Good possibility.
backbreaker65
Banned
What good are the tools, when they tell you not believe your lying eyes?
surely you can afford a 1080p set with these ridiculous deals on BF....
Dat downsampling tho
DR2K
Banned
I think it's fair to say they downplay the disadvantages for X1 (and advantage on PS4) through subtle wording consistently enough for people to make that assertion.
They do present the detailed facts for both versions, but it would be nice if they just used small bullet points at the end with just the facts and little to no wiggle room for opinions to be expressed favorably for either platform.
TerryLee81
Member
Yeah I remember reading a lot about differences between 360 and PS3 in reviews, now they barely mention anything technical, and never anything about platform differences.
Tidus_Great
Banned
ps3/360 games look fine on them, but ps4 is a 1080p console for the most part. not sure why any ps4 owner would fail to buy a 1080p tv with it when it's one of the consoles strongest points.
i bought a 720p tv with my xbox360 , and i bought a 1080p tv with my ps4 personally.
Uninformed people just need to read the article and look at the comparisons, screenshots and videos shown to inform themselves. Informing people is largely what these articles are about.
Lets not pretend that you're here looking out for anybody, either. Don't make me laugh.
What interpretation? The article specifically tells people to make up their own minds. If the PS4 version was comprehensively better in every way, I'm sure it would get the nod that its definitely the version to have. But it just so happens that it has a disadvantage. You seem to want them to declare the PS4 a victor because that's what you would choose, but obviously darkx has made it clear he wouldn't make the same decision and there are others who wouldn't, either, so it is therefore a purely individual thing.
As for your claims, perhaps I'm getting you mixed up with the other guy, sorry. But you seem to be arguing for the same thing, so I suppose most of what I'm saying has applied to you as well.
Tidus_Great
Banned
for 1080p tv owners ps4 version is the victor. it's present at all times/ defintive advantage.
Except framerate. But you know that. And still tried to make that statement anyways.
Why? :/
It should still emphasize that IQ disparity is bigger than the performence one, this is not subjective, if someone cares about FPS above all and is willing to give up more than 30% of the image for a slightly more consistant FPS he can decide for himself, but article shouldn't make the impression that both versions are more or less equal with a minor IQ advantage for the PS4 version and a minor FPS advantage for the XB1.
The truth is that the IQ gap is pretty big technically while FPS gap is pretty close, he shouldn't think about various displays and viewing distances, just to state the facts.
Tidus_Great
Banned
because it's rare enough to call irrelevant. It's taking nitpicking to the extreme. It's fine to mention it, but to pretend it's somehow even close to equal importance as a constant 1080p is insane.
Agreed.
I don't appreciate a significant IQ advantage being glossed over due to minor (and infrequent) frame rate fluxes.
But that gap doesn't mean as much to someone who gets motion sickness from stuttery framerates. Or maybe they don't get sick, it just really, really bothers them. A difference in frame pacing can be very noticeable to and significantly impact the experience of someone with the right sensitivity. This talk of absolutes is kind of missing the point of what I said to begin with.
And the facts are stated in the article. There might be a bit of opinion from the writer at the end, but the facts are there, and the reader can easily decide for themselves which is more important.
Depends on how you mean. If you're talking in terms like raw pixel throughput ratio, then yeah, the PS4 is clearly being measured to be in the lead. But if you're talking about the impact to aesthetics/gameplay, that is absolutely a subjective issue. Most people would probably pick the PS4 version, but it's still subjective.
So once again, the problem seems to be an incapability of understanding that not everybody in the world has the same sensitivities, tolerances and maybe even viewing setup that you do.
I've said it earlier, but when I look at the comparison shots in the DF article after pushing my chair back a few feet from my desk, the differences between the XB1 and PS4 version is quite negligible. I can make out a difference, but only when its side-by-side and its quite a small difference. And that distance from my fairly large monitor is likely very representative of the viewing setup that people have in their living rooms. 1080p isn't always this massive advantage that some people say it is. It may be for you, but that doesn't automatically make it the same for everybody.
It really is.
If its not subjective, then please, tell me EXACTLY, in precise mathematical terms, exactly how many P's equal a single fps so we can say what is a bigger disparity. And explain exactly how you came to this formula using non-subjective reasoning.
TetraGenesis
Member
Why would you drop the persistent resolution to 900p because it has a couple minor drops in framerate?
You're wrong, dawg. Sorry.
Something is not right wiht these screenshots... to the batcave!
Well we can't think about every possible profile of human being available, someone can say he doesn't care if a game runs at 480P as long as he gets a locked 30, the article shouldn't leave the impression that both versions are the same with some minor advantage to each one depending on your preference, it should make it clearer that one version is technically superior, in most cases people would probably prefer it but that's up for them to decide, for me it seems like he downplays IQ and put both version on an equal field, maybe it's true for him and his Kuro display like he said, but not for most others, but he shouldn't think about their displays, just state the obvious.
It's fairly simple, what is more demanding for the hardware? 1080P (with better tessellation as well?) with minor and not frequent dips or 900P with constant 30? where do you need more horsepower?
This is not subjective.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
The PS4 version is 1080p and 30 FPS the vast majority of the time. That, to me, is pretty much the common sense definition of being superior.
However if someone wants to believe that in rare instances the PS4 is 27FPS (still 1080p btw) while the Xbox is 29FPS (900p) is equal then please proceed by all means. Not sure how much of a coalition you'll find for that kind of thing. Most people will just take rare and minor drops for a better overall delivery.
I think thats why a lot of people have an objection - the evidence presented does not bear out the conclusion. It bears out the author's preferences, largely which could be subjective just like Durante said here, that he prefers IQ over minor frame drops here and there.
Was DF presenting similar opinions last gen? I'm genuinely curious as I don't know.
They should already have one. The difference between the PC and PS4 is much larger than the two console versions.
it is subjective, the problem is the focus does not articulate those subjective preferences in a technical analysis. as an indirect effect of that subjectivity, the narrative underplays other information. just because dark or someone else doesn't care, that information should still be provided and easy to digest all at once.
rather than a written conclusion to help support a buyers decision, you can formulate several areas in a comparison chart, summarizing each of the xbone and ps4 review categories such as; features (ie. tesselation, effects), resolution, fps min/max/avg, etc, and having it be "yes/no", or a calculated variance depending on the criteria.
Synless
Member
Didn't the GTA framerate analysis show the PS4 version performing better in the areas they said it performed worse?
That makes... no sense. No sense at all. Running it at 4k/10fps would be even more demanding than that, but not superior. And that measure can't even apply to most comparisons.
Unless your argument is "The PS4 is more powerful so it automatically wins in all categories, always". Which is kind of silly as well.
I can give you a 27" 4k monitor and if you sit 10ft away from it, its not going to look any better than a 720p monitor would, despite it being magnitudes more demanding.
Its a matter of perception, not how demanding it is.
With 4K the FPS disparity is huge in favour of the XB1, with 1080P the IQ disparity is big in favour of the PS4 while the FPS is very close, what is so hard to understand?
If you up-res the XB1 resolution to 1080P with a better tessellation it would probably run at a lower FPS than the current PS4 version otherwise Bioware would just target 1080P for XB1 as well, you don't need to be a genius to figure out which version is technically superior.
Well, we can't think about each and every perception than, just need to state the obvious in a technical analysis: that one version is actually more superior technically, from there if someone is fanatic about FPS and he is willing to give up more than 30% for a slightly more stable experience? be my guest, but it should be known this is the technically inferior version.
ninjablade
Banned
and here we thought DF threads were gonna become boring cause of the huge advantage in Ps4 spec.
The facts and info is all there. If you don't care for the written parts of it, you are free to ignore it and just look at the comparisons and whatnot.
I appreciate the thoughts of the person analysing the game. Just like with reviews, I can listen but still make up my own mind in the end. What are you worried about? Nothing is actually underplaying anything. The people complaining invariably have the same agenda in mind and are 'interpreting' things from a very insecure perspective. They are worried that somebody might be led into thinking that the XB1 version is an actual reasonable alternative! That is what its all about and we all know it. They want the PS4 version recommended hands down and anything short of that is unacceptable.
It's subjective either way you look at it, which seems to be the thing a lot of people are struggling with. Preferring IQ over consistent framerate is a preference, just like preferring a consistent framerate over IQ. It just happens to be a more popular one.
But I also don't know why it matters. Why does it matter what the author says in his opinion when you have all of the actual data right there from which to form your own opinion? Him having an opinion in his conclusion doesn't invalidate all of the data he collected and presented prior.
ninjablade
Banned
he never recommended one version over the other in the conclusion, he did in this thread, but not the article.
Any technical merits of a game are worthless if they don't provide a visual or playable benefit to the user in some way.
Exactly, so I'm not sure why people are so bent out of shape about him not presenting an "objective viewpoint." He presented a technical analysis, and offered the same data to the readers from which he drew any conclusions he did make, so unless people are actually wanting him to say "ps4 rulez xbox droolz" then there's little object to here. An individual can only accurately speak from their own experiences. He could extrapolate for others, but I'm not sure why he absolutely needs to, or how accurate his extrapolations would be in the first place.
ScepticMatt
Member
"Could be smoother"? That's an understatement...Could be smoother:
2560, 780ti
What's up with the 'locked except in cutscenes' business anyway?
(not specific to DA:I)
Jawbreaker
Member
I feel like people would be more content with the conclusion if it were worded in this manner:
After having played and analyzed both console versions of DA: I, it's clear that the Playstation version is pushing much more with a resolution disparity that amounts to roughly 44% while the minor and infrequent dips in frames are more likely to go unnoticed by most, if not simply ignored. The amount of clarity and boost to the overall IQ may not be mindblowing off paper (especially if you're gaming on a high end plasma screen), but it's enough that it lends well to the game's wonderful visuals. Furthermore, DA: I isn't a game that will hugely benefit from an unflinching 30 fps, especially at the sacrifice of the native resolution found in most modern television sets people have at home. While I'm personally one for a no compromise stable frame rate in games (which is why I recommend the PC version above all else) and game on an aforementioned high end plasma screen, I can safely recommend the PS4 version to the average reader. For others like myself which I admit is most likely a small minority, if forced to choose between the console versions, the XBO version offers the most stable frame rate of the two.
After having played and analyzed both console versions of DA: I, it's clear that the Playstation version is pushing much more with a resolution disparity that amounts to roughly 44% while the minor and infrequent dips in frames are more likely to go unnoticed by most, if not simply ignored. The amount of clarity and boost to the overall IQ may not be mindblowing off paper (especially if you're gaming on a high end plasma screen), but it's enough that it lends well to the game's wonderful visuals. Furthermore, DA: I isn't a game that will hugely benefit from an unflinching 30 fps, especially at the sacrifice of the native resolution found in most modern television sets people have at home. While I'm personally one for a no compromise stable frame rate in games (which is why I recommend the PC version above all else) and game on an aforementioned high end plasma screen, I can safely recommend the PS4 version to the average reader. For others like myself which I admit is most likely a small minority, if forced to choose between the console versions, the XBO version offers the most stable frame rate of the two.
sure, in that specific criteria.
when you are measuring capabilities and performance for a review, why would you use a 27 inch monitor? why would viewing distance matter? you just want to be explicit in what the system/app is capable of doing. nothing more.
Tbh, yeah it's not that smooth. Even at 1080p and just high settings it's not as nice as I would like. Noticeably worse.
It's alright though. Not like it's an FPS. But yeah, not that impressed performance wise.
But saying that:
https://dl1.volafile.io/get/MThoPxttVEUoB/Dragon Age Inquisition 11.22.2014 - 23.16.01.19.webm
https://dl1.volafile.io/get/D8izPi9wVEX/Dragon Age Inquisition 11.23.2014 - 01.10.45.36_2.webm
I can't help but think maybe it's a certain setting that's screwing me over but it takes FOREVER to change settings and by that time you forget the differences. Exit the game to apply -_- takes like a minute!
I agree except the bolder. I don't know if that's the case either way.
The controversy here is if that the data doesn't align. The 40% of the battles isn't one of the presented facts. It's also contrary to people (who played through) experiences.
Well obviously if it is superior technically it must provide one, otherwise what exactly makes it more demanding?
After we are clear about that (something the article didn't bother to clarify) you can go with whatever preference you would like, no matter how crazy it is like giving up on more than 30% in favour of a slightly better FPS
