Omotesando
Member
1080p/60fps came with obvious downgrades.
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Digital Foundry: Forza 5 1080p/60FPS gameplay and performance analysis videos
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
This posts compares E3 build to the Machinima video.
Edit: Got confused, sorry.
Red Chocobo
Banned
Same here.
Although, I still wonder if they will ever have dynamic lighting and weather if they are struggling even without those :/
I'd rather they drop to 720p 60fps and add more effects.
Thanks for your response bro. Well my exclusives lies with Microsoft and Xbox. I really hope you are right about the difference being not that big
I wanted to take a look at some of these comparisons.
The amount of both geometry and texture detail in the release version is dramatically improved. I prefer the warmer lighting and the dynamic range we see, though those are stylistic changes.
I see changes, but I don't understand the claims that these are flat-out downgrades in any way.
In addition to much sharper detail, we see more geometry in the scenery, more detailed trackside textures, better lighting and a more pronounced dynamic range. Here's another simple one:
The amount of both geometry and texture detail in the release version is dramatically improved. I prefer the warmer lighting and the dynamic range we see, though those are stylistic changes.
This one's a dramatic upgrade, with more detail on basically everything in the scene with regard to textures, geometry, lighting and the addition of meaningful amounts of new track-side detail. Look at the trolley lines overhead.
I see changes, but I don't understand the claims that these are flat-out downgrades in any way.
Um, my post was made in response to that. The point being that other than the obvious downgrades, buildings/objects have been altered/added in as well.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Doesn't look anywhere near as good as the E3 footage (which blew me away). Guess Thuway was right. In all honesty, this game doesn't represent a generational leap.
Ah hahah Oh speaking of power cords and trolley tracks (well you were anyway, before you edited your previous post heh), they added those in here:
Yeah it looks a lot better now, better textures and much more trackside detail. Some people will see what they want to see such as using the terrible quality DF Youtube video when we have direct capture screens right here.
Why did they do that, track would look cleaner without them .... weird.
I like that motion blur though.
Metalmurphy
Member
Can you specify what video it was? Circuits are usually much bigger then what you'd expect which gives you a false sense of speed.
Take Laguna Seca for example, bet you never realized it's actually a 59 feet drop on the Corkscrew.
Had the same thought. It's as if they wanted to show off jaggies.
SniperHunter
Banned
E3 demo was probably running on a 7970
Metalmurphy
Member
You can't compare the sharpness and texture detail between videos with different compression values...
And there's less trees, which are usually more taxing then a building with simple geometry. Same goes for the bridge that replaced 2 pillars with statues. That looks more like smart optimization of the level layout, and as adelante showed, this optimization actually leads to it looking better on some sections, but the downgrade, technically speaking that is, is more then apparent.
Actually he had a correct, factual post and invited people to correct him if he was wrong.
You on the other hand, came in here with the defensive hurr durr console warrior try so hard bullshit, in response to people discussing graphics in a Digital Foundry thread.
So yeah, keep up the good fight, kiddo.
Have you really not played Forza for over four years? According to your online profile you haven't. Seems you missed Horizon as well. Weird.
It is the video which DF put up on their site. It shows a lap around the track in Prague.
Edit: Direct link to the video - https://mega.co.nz/#!NEhGyIzK!fsxOrlMRjm6Vm-xkTBnbhwyHz0IIP_9smB68pSX0ePQ
Metalmurphy
Member
Horizon is 60fps now?
Previous games being rock solid 60fps doesn't really negate anything in his post... It's a new game on new hardware even, previous games being 60fps with no drops doesn't really mean that this one automatically would be, but he's glad that they are.
FlyStarJay
Member
so how did they manage 1080/60fps and other games cant manage it?
Glorified G
Member
They can, but choose not too. Every ps360 game could be 1080p & 60fps if devs want. But there would be sacrifices in other areas to do so
Different genres, different targets, cross-platform development... etc.
Horizons was 30 FPS.
They chose to make heavy sacrifices. No AA, extremely basic pre rendered lighting system, closed track, etc.
It will be the same as every other generation, a small percentage of 60fps games while the majority are 30fps. Developers will always push graphics over framerates, its just that the Forza developers are super skilled in this by now.
No AA and no dynamic lighting would be my guess.
Yep, I prefer the warmer lighting too. The main problem with the old build is that the cooler color temperature tend to "blend out" the shadows on the ground with the road surface. Kinda makes it hard to distinguish between them and road markings in certain areas.
A shame about the crowd comprising mainly of 2D sprites though. But I guess if there's anything to be thankful for with the extra power that comes with new gen, it's that it allows devs to have:
1) higher-res sprites
2) fuckin loads of them
Whats been 'given' though, just look at the screenshots further up, the final game looks better.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
OK, my first thought when watching the youtube video at 1080p is that this game got a massive visual downgrade since the E3. I decided to shut up until I see better footage, but I see others already are thinking the same.
You are just so excited about this, aren't you? lol
His post history really is a sight to behold.
Static lighting and obvious, heavy reductions in graphical effects (regardless of what some people are saying here).
For a racing game like Forza, those sacrifices are likely worth it (other than the disappointment that some people are experiencing after seeing the final version compared to previous builds). Other games decided that extra effects were worth lower resolution and frame rate, and adjusted accordingly - in the case of Ryse, image quality has gone way up over earlier builds, even as the resolution and frame rate have been scaled back.
Can you refute the specific downgrades he posted? lol
It's difficult to judge detail when you're comparing a 1GB HQ video with 720p YT captures, but I will say the second one definitely looks better in the new build. But the top and bottom imo look better in the older build. There's little point adding those power lines to the buildings when aliasing is so prevalent. I actually think the look of the tree's look better in the older build, and that pass through with the tree's everywhere looked nice. There was no need really to add that bridge, but it was probably an artistic decision.
JackAubrey
Member
You don't really need to "think" just look at the screens above from Prague that prove conclusively otherwise.
Forza 2 and PGR 3 at the very least had a 3D crowd, probably a lot more games as I remember it being next gen feature back then. Not a huge crowd, but 3D
I'm not gonna lie, hiding pop in was my first thought
Just compare it to E3 gameplay, 2 different games. Seriously just looking at the track details, buildings, motion blur, AA etc. it's a massive downgrade, imo. I'm not a fan of racing games, so I couldn't care less which game's the best but Forza did look way better back then. That demo was running on a much better rig. I doubt that was a design decision.
I was more asking the question of why Nib hasn't played Forza for over four years (according to his profile at least) yet still has a big interest in the series. Nothing to do with Horizon being 30fps at all.
I think these highlight it a bit. We may have to disagree on this.
Yeah huge downgrade lol.
Only people who have played the series are allowed to comment in Digital Foundry threads about the game's graphics?
looks good, definite downgrades in some areas though, with upgrades in other areas.
pretty sure the same people in here saying omg downgrade are the same people who point out that Deep Down(grade) actual gameplay footage doesn't look anywhere close to the in-engine teaser footage capcom first showed
pretty sure the same people in here saying omg downgrade are the same people who point out that Deep Down(grade) actual gameplay footage doesn't look anywhere close to the in-engine teaser footage capcom first showed
Back when IGN was the big boy on campus Nibs was hard.....hard...hardcore Sony/PD/GT. He's not as bad now, but I'm sure he still leans that way.
I think these highlight it a bit. We may have to disagree on this.
What are your thoughts on this comparison? Tonnes of different segments of the track compared.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90611423&postcount=203
I didn't need to. Whilst I was at Uni/London most of my 360 gaming was done on my flat mates console. Hence why I was XBL Gold'less for a while. Now I'm back in my own place and have both consoles, as well as PS+ and XBL Gold. That said, I barely had much time with Horizon. The last Forza I played properly was Forza 4, but not as much as 3 because I actually preferred the physics in 3.
Any modern engine can manage 1080/60 fps with ease. The question a dev needs to ask themselves is how much graphical detail are they sacrificing? The more detail in a scene, the longer you need to render it. That's why 3D CGI movies look so good. Their render farms take hours to days to render each FRAME.
Considering the somewhat disappointing leap in power than generation, targeting 1080/60 fps is a major hit in performance and makes many games look uncomfortably close to prior generation games in detail level. And this is what most laymen really even notice.
Metalmurphy
Member
If you make them even smaller you'll be able to hide more stuff.
I'm not gonna lie, hiding pop in was my first thought
HAhah reasonable assumption...but you can actually see the towers and other distant buildings way before you approach the bridge heh.
Not at all. I've seen Nib in multiple Forza threads therefore it's fair to make the assumption that somebody who is visiting and posting in multiple threads about a game would have a lot of interest in that series.
Not sure why you feel the need to be all Kevin Costner but carry on.