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Digital Foundry: Forza 5 1080p/60FPS gameplay and performance analysis videos

ekim

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May 2, 2012
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Like I said in the last thread. Thuway and CBOAT said they're would be downgrades.

In fact, I was told there would be downgrades by Thuway even before FM5 was originally shown. He said their kits used much more powerful GPU's while Sony had weaker GPU in their kit.

But people were saying at expos it looked the same like in the initial reveal video and there it was running on devkits based on final HW.
 

Metalmurphy

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Jan 17, 2007
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I mostly agree. But to say 'I guess the downgrades went unnoticed by reviewers' implies that the reviewers should take them into account or mention them.

It's a wrong notion by whoever said that. Sure this is material for gaming articles, but not for a review.
But people were saying at expos it looked the same like in the initial reveal video and there it was running on devkits based on final HW.

"based" being the key word probably.
 

Ty4on

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Jun 22, 2011
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In the second picture I can tell they're the same flat photo cutouts as in the other picture posted above with Dan Greenwalt circled. It doesn't look like that in the first one, although it could be the low quality material.

(I assume people will be driving around the track fast enough they won't actually notice these things anyway while playing, just something that was noticeable in these pictures).

I just saw all the blur and assumed they looked like the ones in the first pic. They do seem 3D, but at the same time The Sims 1/PGR 3 3D :p
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Oct 25, 2011
28,719
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0
Polygon punishes the entire Killzone franchise because of that:

5/10

Is there an indication that this consideration contributes to the score, though? If it's just fluff to make the review more readable then I don't see the problem; like starting a review of Uncharted 4 by saying 'Uncharted was one of the best franchises of the last generation, so obviously hopes are high for its first PS4 outing...'.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
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DAT 3D CROWD, though.

No one seems happy to be there, haha
 

phosphor112

Banned
May 23, 2009
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Indiana
www.outofcontinues.com
You're trying pretty hard I see.

Fight the good fight bro!

If you insist.

But people were saying at expos it looked the same like in the initial reveal video and there it was running on devkits based on final HW.

That's obviously bullshit then.

You can't deny the physical evidence here. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much in this case.
 

shandy706

Member
May 3, 2011
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If people want their eyes to bleed, wait for Horizon 2.

The "downgrades"/changes are acceptable from what I've seen....WITH 60fps and accurate physics. The responsiveness is a key in Forza.

I dont know how they can think they can get away with it.

Screw You MS+Turn, this has completely turned me off getting an X1.

Another person that should probably just cancel every console purchase for the foreseeable future. Games in development are always going to change. Some for the better in areas, some for the "worse" in other areas.

If they had to back off on some things to hit 60fps locked, then I'm for it in the case of this game. If it were any other game I'd prefer prettier graphics and a locked 30.
 

keit4

Banned
Apr 11, 2009
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Well, the downgrade is pretty clear. I suppose that it's better to sacrifice some effects than let the framerate drop.
 

phosphor112

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May 23, 2009
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If people want their eyes to bleed, wait for Horizon 2.

The "downgrades"/changes are acceptable from what I've seen....WITH 60fps and accurate physics. The responsiveness is a key in Forza.

The 60fps with all those graphical perks wasn't a problem earlier. It's clear they had a higher build on better hardware and then had to pair back considerably for the retail hardware.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Sep 29, 2011
27,243
39
670
Good lord, the same exact trolls from every Forza 5 thread ruining another thread.

It's a digital foundry thread, if you haven't noticed.

So yeah, shit is going to get scrutinized.
And when you have been blatantly misrepresenting your game right up until launch like with F5, then people tend to get a little bit annoyed.
 

KOHIPEET

Member
May 10, 2013
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Just watched the race footage and the sense of speed is just seriously off. In one corner the car was doing 60 miles per hour and it felt more like 25 or 30. Was it always like this?
 

TheCloser

Banned
Mar 8, 2013
1,974
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Here are the differences I've noted. Correct me if I am wrong.

Downgrades.

- Overall lighting and dynamic range
- Textures on certain buildings
- Geometry
- Shaders
- Ambient Occlusion
- Quality of crowd models
- Motion blur reduction
- Shadow quality
- Post processing (reduction of fog etc)
- Anti Aliasing
- Number of trees and quality of foliage

Upgrades.

- Certain buildings now have windows
- Bloom has been reduced
- Road textures in areas are better

Yep, its pretty clear as day. Downgrade just like i said would happen.
 

shandy706

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May 3, 2011
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That's a lot of downgrades to fit those cars in. Even if you insist that it were the car count, that would mean Time Trial would look like the E3 footage. So far we have no evidence of that (though we have no TT footage).

You know, someone pointed out gameplay vs replay.

I don't see them building different LOD/textures/lighting for replays or single car runs.....really don't see that.

Would be interesting if so....if not a strange waste of development time. lol
 

nib95

Banned
Feb 26, 2007
34,618
2
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Yep, its pretty clear as day. Downgrade just like i said would happen.

To be fair though, Ryse seems to have seen upgrades. Well at least from the footage we have seen anyway. It has dropped resolution from 1080p to 900p, and lost some polygons along the way, but overall the lighting, shaders etc look much improved. The DF analysis should be interesting.

DR3 and F5 imo have taken pretty big downgrades.
 

Ty4on

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Jun 22, 2011
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You know, someone pointed out gameplay vs replay.

I don't see them building different LOD/textures/lighting for replays or single car runs.....really don't see that.

Would be interesting if so....if not a strange waste of development time. lol

Forza 3 cars had "ten times the polycount".
In photo mode and menus only. Forza 4 used the model when you only had one car on track.
 

Goldmund

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Sep 1, 2009
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It still looks serviceable, I guess. The racing needs to be good, the frame rate and resolution are also there. The game doesn't have to be a looker.
 

AstroNut325

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Oct 15, 2011
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So Thuway was correct. Link.

BTW I am predicating a downgrade based on what developer's have at the moment. Most third parties don't have beta devkits yet and are using uber powerful alpha kits with 7970s. You can make a damn gorgeous looking demo using those kits. The next devkits will break into the stage of optimization which will be a task that will last until the days of release.

Unlike MS, Sony worked in revese. They had hardware that was underpowered and slowly made the kits better as time went on. We are now at a point where the specs are official and any one with half a brain can approximate the results of what you can get.

*Salutes*
 

adelante

Member
Dec 28, 2005
6,413
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730
Here are the differences I've noted. Correct me if I am wrong.

Downgrades.

- Overall lighting and dynamic range
- Textures on certain buildings
- Geometry
- Shaders
- Ambient Occlusion
- Quality of crowd models
- Motion blur reduction
- Shadow quality
- Post processing (reduction of fog etc)
- Anti Aliasing
- Number of trees and quality of foliage

Upgrades.

- Certain buildings now have windows
- Bloom has been reduced
- Road textures in areas are better

The downgrades are pretty clear, but again, you seem to be ignoring the improved/replaced assets (and I don't mean just "windows"). So higher fidelity building models in certain areas counts as an upgrade, imho, however insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

 

IRQ

Banned
Apr 30, 2013
208
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Man..I really don't know what to think about X1. Here I have a pre order active from a country to a non launch country and waiting for it. I'm really not that impressed by the review's, the downgrade or what the future might hold. Is it really that big of difference between the two consoles? Should I proceed with my order or just grab a PS4? Am a hardcore Xbox fan. But I also want quality for my money. I can live with ps360 difference. But not with 360 Wii differences. Might as well buy a PC or quit gaming all together. This is the first time I feel really unsure about Xbox.
 

KOHIPEET

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May 10, 2013
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Welcome to circuit racing.

I don't get it. I know I shouldn't expect arcade-style whoosh, but around the 2:16 mark, when the car goes by the fence (which cannot be more than 2 meters away) at a speed of 60 is just awkward. I'm trying to find some real footage for comparison, because I'm curious.
 

Madness

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Jan 1, 2013
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I played the demo, couldn't figure out how to get out of the damn first person mode, but it ran smooth. Amazing to see they've locked it at 1080p/60 FPS without any drops.
 

RetroStu

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Feb 6, 2013
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The downgrades are pretty clear, but again, you seem to be ignoring the improved/replaced assets (and I don't mean just "windows"). So higher fidelity building models in certain areas counts as an upgrade, imho, however insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

The screens on the left look far better to me, whichever one that is.
 

shandy706

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May 3, 2011
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The downgrades are pretty clear, but again, you seem to be ignoring the improved/replaced assets (and I don't mean just "windows"). So higher fidelity building models in certain areas counts as an upgrade, imho, however insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Oh wow...it looks like they went in and completely redesigned the track. I see that with those images. Seems to be a complete rebuild rather than a "downgrade".
 

Ty4on

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Jun 22, 2011
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I'm aware of that :)

I'm talking just tracks, lighting, and poly-count in surroundings.

Sorry. That was just a car LOD never seen in gameplay so doing something similar for replays didn't seem unlikely. Graphics are really important in selling the game and that way they can show "in game footage" that really isn't in game :p
 

Mascot

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Aug 9, 2009
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Posted this in the OT, but did DF also test the framerate with the max 16 cars on track? Their analysis video is from an 8-car race.
 

scandisk_

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Dec 19, 2009
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Man..I really don't know what to think about X1. Here I have a pre order active from a country to a non launch country and waiting for it. I'm really not that impressed by the review's, the downgrade or what the future might hold. Is it really that big of difference between the two consoles? Should I proceed with my order or just grab a PS4? Am a hardcore Xbox fan. But I also want quality for my money. I can live with ps360 difference. But not with 360 Wii differences. Might as well buy a PC or quit gaming all together. This is the first time I feel really unsure about Xbox.

Go with the system that has the exclusives you want bro. Grab that X1. And for the record the difference isn't 360-wii wide.
 

RetroStu

Banned
Feb 6, 2013
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That is the final build. But those are direct feed screen grabs.

They have added a lot more into the scenes though, even the textures are better. Its obviously just a case of the E3 version not having final tracks and placeholder assets etc.
 
Sep 27, 2006
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It's a digital foundry thread, if you haven't noticed.

So yeah, shit is going to get scrutinized.
And when you have been blatantly misrepresenting your game right up until launch like with F5, then people tend to get a little bit annoyed.


This is a thread about frame-rate performance and i came in this thread to see if it was a solid 60fps or had noticeable drops. I'm sure other's who are actually interested in this game did the same.
Nothing more nothing less.

As far as the graphical quality of the game is concerned i will take the word of the people who actually own the game and universally praised the graphics as oppose to people comparing internet videos of various builds of the game.
 

RayMaker

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Dec 25, 2012
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If people want their eyes to bleed, wait for Horizon 2.

The "downgrades"/changes are acceptable from what I've seen....WITH 60fps and accurate physics. The responsiveness is a key in Forza.



Another person that should probably just cancel every console purchase for the foreseeable future. Games in development are always going to change. Some for the better in areas, some for the "worse" in other areas.

If they had to back off on some things to hit 60fps locked, then I'm for it in the case of this game. If it were any other game I'd prefer prettier graphics and a locked 30.


games that I remember seeing a downgrade

brother in arms hells highway
aliens :CM
Bioshsock infinite

and now forza 5


I understand things can change in development, but dont tell me you are so naive to think that these devs arent being over ambitious with there gameplay debuts to get more attention positive feedback.

The majority of devs deliver or exceed on there initial visual pitch and these devs should be an example to the shoody,dishonest and slightly devious act the above devs do by showing something greatly better then the finall product.

Killzone looks better and driveclub seems to be improving, and even if its an honest development fault with turn 10, it does not inspire confidence in them if they cant deliver on what they promised.

Devs should try there hardest to show initial gameplay that they are 100% sure they can achieve on the retail version, and if they are not 100% confident they can achieve it, they should downgrade the footage they have to ensure the final product is better or at least as good.

Anyway I'll vote with my £££$$$

This is the final nail in the coffin.