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[c0de]

At this rate, with Sony releasing Neo later this year, and Scorpio being rumored for Fall 2017 MS will already be late as Sony will simply release a PS8k 2018/19.

And I expect Sony to stress that this is not a new platform or new generation. They will simply talk of this as an upgrade to their existing ecosystem.

And then MS releases a new Xbox in 2019/2020...
You see there is no really “counter“ in this discussion anymore? Who releases first has worse hardware than the one coming late.
It's basically the question “When will I upgrade my PC“.

 

[Luckydog]

Curious to see their cooling setup.

PS4 is quite notorious for running rather hot and loud so I hope they are putting in some extra work into making this thing both powerful, yet silent and compact.

Basically, i'm asking them to do the impossible I guess. I just don't want an Xbox One like VCR unit in my shelf.

I have never understood this thinking. No I don,t want a huge ugly dodecahedron in pink on my shelf, but what the heck is wrong with a black rectangle. Even one the size of the Xbox. The thing is damn near silent compared to the PS4 and once it is in the rack, no one really looks at it again.

On top of that, I have never once heard someone complain about the size of AV receivers. You know, those monster size big black rectangles that are 3 times the size of a VCR with a million buttons and dials and generally sit on the same shelf as video game systems....but put an Xbox name on it and it is now the ugliest thing in the world.

 

[Larogue]

Good but still bottle-neck'ed by netbook trash CPU.

 

[gofreak]

Wait how is this supposed to run games in 4k I didn't think 480 was that powerful.

It's not really meant to do that in any general way. The '4K' of rumours to date relates more to media capabilities and maybe the occasional less resource intensive game.

 

[Shtof]

And then MS releases a new Xbox in 2019/2020...
You see there is no really “counter“ in this discussion anymore? Who releases first has worse hardware than the one coming late.
It's basically the question “When will I upgrade my PC“.

Yep. Arms race into the death of consoles. Guys, witness the beginning of the end.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Don't let this arms race confuse you. Consoles are still going to die, and an arms race is the perfect way to go out with a bang.

And what pray, will take their place? Streaming?

 

[dead monkey uk]

i think the consideration is more long term.

If Sony intends to roll out a PS5 in 2-3 years and want to support ps5 and ps4k in the same way (same games on the same disc) and phase out ps4 support, the lowest common denominator would be these jaguar cores. That would be a problem for maintaining the same cpu in the neo.

If they intend to start a new generation then the neo cpu is inconsequential.

I think that's the consideration they are having.

I think this is what Sony will do, in around 3 years they will release the PS5 that will run all PS4(K) games but also have exclusive PS5 games. Support for the PS4 and PS4K will end at the same time. The Neo was born out of Sony developing a PS4 slim, its just now they have the bonus of improved performance. I would not be surprised if production of the PS4 is stopped when they can get the PS4 Neo down to around $299.

 

[Mivey]

Good but still bottle-neck'ed by netbook trash CPU.

I'm guessing it will make GPGPU even more imperative going forward. Of course, not all code can be efficiently parallelized, and you want to have parallel algorithms when you send stuff to the GPU.

 

[Durante]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

 

[c0de]

Why? What's the point? The CPUs aren't bottlenecking the system.

What?

 

[Shtof]

And what pray, will take their place? Streaming?

The writing is on the wall. But Sony and MS will still be at the forefront but this time as content providers. And Nintendo of course.

 

[Long Division]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

Don't forget the playstation plus subscription

 

[gofreak]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

I know we're talking apples to oranges here, but if I could buy a PC with a RX480 grade GPU - even a lower clocked one! - at my local Argos for $400 I would (very genuinely) be all over that.

 

[c0de]

People always forget that Sony is thinking also about developing games time for these machines, Introducing new CPUs can add more burden on the devs.

PS4 is already successful, Sony wants minimal efforts in porting the games to the NEO ( if any). Thats why sticking to the same APU is best business decision.

Thank God we have Sony insiders on this forum which also are devs.

 

[J-Skee]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

Would you also have to upgrade your CPU & power supply to accommodate the new GPU or is that not necessary?

 

[Odorono]

Would you also have to upgrade your CPU & power supply to accommodate the new GPU or is that not necessary?

Depends on what you had before.

 

[GHG]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

Breh, everyone knows you need to be a millionaire nerd to be able to build a PC. I saw that those Dell 4K OLED monitors cost $5k alone. And that's not even taking into account your increased electricity bill and having to spend days troubleshooting every single game.

Would you also have to upgrade your CPU & power supply to accommodate the new GPU or is that not necessary?

Lmao...

 

[120v]

i was expecting this thing to match a 970, best case scenario. color me surprised.

with that kind of jump i'm not buying that there will never be Neo exclusives

 

[KurtSloane]

Polaris has been designed around thermal performance, specifically gaming laptops.

Heard it all before, AMD chips have almost always been more power hungry and hot.


Will believe it when I see it (with regards to Polaris)

 

[Zedox]

It makes sense that Sony would be using that GPU. Good stuff.

 

[mejin]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

I'm sure your old PS4 can be traded for $200.

 

[pswii60]

NEO will be a nice complement for my new B6 OLED

Can't wait to get more details on which upcoming games will take advantage of the extra power and if any older ones will receive patches. 60fps for Ratchet please!

 

[J-Skee]

Depends on what you had before.

Got it, thanks.

 

[tzare]

I have never understood this thinking. No I don,t want a huge ugly dodecahedron in pink on my shelf, but what the heck is wrong with a black rectangle. Even one the size of the Xbox. The thing is damn near silent compared to the PS4 and once it is in the rack, no one really looks at it again.

On top of that, I have never once heard someone complain about the size of AV receivers. You know, those monster size big black rectangles that are 3 times the size of a VCR with a million buttons and dials and generally sit on the same shelf as video game systems....but put an Xbox name on it and it is now the ugliest thing in the world.

It may not affect you , but i does affect others. My ps4 is under my tv because it is small, my ps3 or and XBO could not go there and had to stand in vertical behind the TV. Not to mention to have a few power bricks is also not very convenient. Not everyone has enough room. Myself i am looking for a slim AV receiver for the same very reason. I cannot use my current one on the shelf i have. It is just too big.

 

[PodcastFips]

So it is indeed closer to the Scorpio's 6TF than those 4TF rumors suggested? Good.

It really looks like I need to get rid of my old PS4.

 

[KingBroly]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

$250 for RAM parity.

 

[Odorono]

So it is indeed closer to the Scorpio's 6TF than those 4TF rumors suggested? Good.

It really looks like I need to get rid of my old PS4.

Read the article.

 

[dead monkey uk]

I'm fairly certain the leaked Neo policies indicate that software will perform exactly the same as on a standard PS4 without a patch - i.e. standard PS4 binaries will run in a 'standard' mode on Neo, probably with the CPU physically clocked to the same rate as the standard machine, and standard PS4's worth of GPU resources exposed via the hypervisor. They can't really risk fidgeting with the performance profile of existing games in an automatic fashion given how some games can do weird things linked to the framerate etc.

Fair enough, I did not see that in the leaks I read. I just thought if a game is locked at 30fps but drops are happening, an improved CPU will automatically improve this. Digital Foundry also discussed this as a possibility in one of their articles, so could still be possible. Your post made me think a game with an unlocked frame rate may run into problems if a better CPU is introduced.

 

[c0de]

I think Sony is even looking for a NEO architecture that very compatible with current PS4 games, for example I can run The Order 1886 on Neo by simply putting the disc and game will run flawlessly with no bugs or problems.

You don't want to confuse 40m users with NEO.

But how would that not work for other systems, too? I can buy a game now for my PC that is five years old and can play games on that PC that are 10 or 20 years old.
There is no magic involved, it's called binary compatibility and is how pc's work since a long, long time.

 

[reKon]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

And you can't sell your old console then? Okay.

 

[Odorono]

And you can't sell your old console then? Okay.

And you can't sell your old graphics card?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Based completely on rumor but:

PS4 Neo
-significant upgrade
-low cost to entry
-day one ready for VR
-superior versions of games though not completely nullifying base model.

Scorpio
-Huge upgrade
-likely higher price point
-likely supports Occulus
-later release date
-best version of multi plats similar to PS4/X1 now.
-completely replaces current X1.

Based on this assumption I don't see MS taking back a significant amount of market share. The big caveat will depend on how long Neo is on the market before Scorpio.

What do you guys think?

 

[c0de]

So you can upgrade your console for $400 rather than buying a (higher clocked?) GPU for $200

I would laugh Sony would “invent“ something like MXM and people would go crazy about it.

 

[dead monkey uk]

So it is indeed closer to the Scorpio's 6TF than those 4TF rumors suggested? Good.

It really looks like I need to get rid of my old PS4.

No the article says the Neo is clocked lower than the 480, so backing up the leaks. We are passed the rumor stage by now, a rumor is the Scorpio is 6TF.

 

[J-Skee]

Based completely on rumor but:

PS4 Neo
-significant upgrade
-low cost to entry
-day one ready for VR
-superior versions of games though not completely nullifying base model.

Scorpio
-Huge upgrade
-likely higher price point
-likely supports Occulus
-later release date
-best version of multi plats similar to PS4/X1 now.
-completely replaces current X1.

Based on this assumption I don't see MS taking back a significant amount of market share. The big caveat will depend on how long Neo is on the market before Scorpio.

What do you guys think?

I missed that part. So Microsoft will no longer support the Xbox One?

 

[OléGunner]

So does Scorpio outclass Neo by quite a bit then?

 

[reKon]

And you can't sell your old graphics card?

I don't care about PC gaming cost comparisons. My point is that if you want to upgrade, it doesn't have to be a $400 net cost.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

So does Scorpio outclass Neo by quite a bit then?

By the looks of it, yes.

 

[GHG]

Based completely on rumor but:

PS4 Neo
-significant upgrade
-low cost to entry
-day one ready for VR
-superior versions of games though not completely nullifying base model.

Scorpio
-Huge upgrade
-likely higher price point
-likely supports Occulus
-later release date
-best version of multi plats similar to PS4/X1 now.
-completely replaces current X1.

Based on this assumption I don't see MS taking back a significant amount of market share. The big caveat will depend on how long Neo is on the market before Scorpio.

What do you guys think?

Scorpio is an iteration, it doesn't completely replace the xb1.

And no, none of what you posted fixes the issues Mcrosoft face in territories outside of the U.K. And US. If anything the situation for them on the console front will continue to get worse as word gets round that all their games are also available on the PC.

 

[Vanillalite]

So does Scorpio outclass Neo by quite a bit then?

If you go by the two rumor it's either

Neo 4.2 TF
Scorpio 5.5 TF

Or

Neo 4.2 TF
Scorpio 6.0 TF

Either way there is over a 1TF gap.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I missed that part. So Microsoft will no longer supported the Xbox One?

Well won't the jump between the two consoles be too significant for there to be two versions? Would the next Halo really be on both and if so won't there gulf between the two versions be too massive for the consumer to take the X1 seriously

 

[MilkyJoe]

I missed that part. So Microsoft will no longer supported the Xbox One?

Highly unlikely, game swill be scaled back on x1

So does Scorpio outclass Neo by quite a bit then?

50% more, according to rumour. But the numbers are still both very high compared to what we currently have. So multiplats I would expect pretty much the same, at least for the time being.

 

[gofreak]

So does Scorpio outclass Neo by quite a bit then?

The possible range of improvement based on current info is anywhere from 25-50% really. It's a bit unclear right now where exactly things will fall within that range.

 

[HighResTomato]

Can't wait for E3 it's gonna be great

 

[reKon]

Scorpio is an iteration, it doesn't completely replace the xb1.

And no, none of what you posted fixes the issues Mcrosoft face in territories outside of the U.K. And US. If anything the situation for them on the console front will continue to get worse as word gets round that all their games are also available on the PC.

This! If they want their console sales, they need to do better with their marketing exclsuives and console/PC exclusives vs PlayStation for the console only gamers.

 

[c0de]

Based on this assumption I don't see MS taking back a significant amount of market share. The big caveat will depend on how long Neo is on the market before Scorpio.

What do you guys think?

I think MS stopped to think in generations. They will release a new console every once in a while which is an entry point to their UWP platform for games. But so is every PC that is sold out there. This is more a step sideways than it is towards Sony. Every steam machine could be considered as an “opponent“ to whatever Sony releases as you are free to buy Windows 10 and then buy games there.

 

[Guerrilla]

Based completely on rumor but:

PS4 Neo
-significant upgrade
-low cost to entry
-day one ready for VR
-superior versions of games though not completely nullifying base model.

Scorpio
-Huge upgrade
-likely higher price point
-likely supports Occulus
-later release date
-best version of multi plats similar to PS4/X1 now.
-completely replaces current X1.

Based on this assumption I don't see MS taking back a significant amount of market share. The big caveat will depend on how long Neo is on the market before Scorpio.

What do you guys think?

I think there are too many variables at this point to call it. Neo could still release late (March for example) and Scorpio could be well before the end of 2017. The might be only a couple month apart, at this point its basically guesswork. However, power isn't gonna sway too many people anyways, Ms has got to think about alternatives to get there.

I could see them uncoupling Online Gaming from Xbox Live Gold. If they truly embrace pc gaming and put every exclusive on the windows store with crossplay/croosbuy and so on (which def. seems like they're planing) I bet they will give out multiplayer for free and add other incentives for gold. Now this would be waaaay bigger than any 40% power difference could ever be.

 

[PodcastFips]

No the article says the Neo is clocked lower than the 480, so backing up the leaks. We are passed the rumor stage by now, a rumor is the Scorpio is 6TF.

I don't know, we had PS4 rumors suggesting 4GB of RAM for a long time, and it turned out to be 8GB. Clocking down the card that much is probably not the final solution here (with Scorpio rumors in mind).

 

[Dunlop]

I have never understood this thinking. No I don,t want a huge ugly dodecahedron in pink on my shelf, but what the heck is wrong with a black rectangle. Even one the size of the Xbox. The thing is damn near silent compared to the PS4 and once it is in the rack, no one really looks at it again.

On top of that, I have never once heard someone complain about the size of AV receivers. You know, those monster size big black rectangles that are 3 times the size of a VCR with a million buttons and dials and generally sit on the same shelf as video game systems....but put an Xbox name on it and it is now the ugliest thing in the world.

This, as long as it fits on my shelf make it as big as needed so it is silent.

I'm always puzzled by the PS4 and XB1 console manufacturing comparison.

XB1 looks like a high ends piece of hardware while the PS4 looks so cheap up close (yes I have both)

After going through 3 DS4 due to shoddy quality, I really hope Sony does a better job this time

 

[GHG]

Well won't the jump between the two consoles be too significant for there to be two versions? Would the next Halo really be on both and if so won't there gulf between the two versions be too massive for the consumer to take the X1 seriously

I have a hard time believing that they will just drop support so suddenly on the Xbox one and leave in excess of 25 million users high and dry. But then, it is Microsoft after all...