-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Neo GPU are point-for-point a match for RX 480
- Thread starter Shtof
- Start date
StrongBlackVine
Banned
If these specs turn out to be final Sony is delusional if they think this will keep people from migrating to PC. I would prefer to stick to console only, but this half-step will push me back into PC gaming for sure(not interested in Scorpio). All this reconstruction/projection talk is not appealing at all.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
It would be a poor mandate, IMO, as it is extra work.
Then wait for PS5. The concept of an iterative unit is what this is, its not intended to be a substantially more powerful box just to play PS4 games, Sony don't have the money to burn to invest into something like that. Maybe when PS5 comes out, you'll get the 60fps patches to those NEO games, cause ZEN will have been fully viable by that time.
Andrew house has also doubled down on generational cycles, and using that power to better gaming as one of their advantages in closed hardware during talks with NEO. They aren't getting rid of that by introducing NEO as a substantially stronger platform that would limit the appeal of a PS5, as that would either be a much smaller jump from NEO, or take much longer to show up to get a tangible hardware upgrade and convince people to upgrade to that.
I just wish it had some more CPU grunt and RAM bandwidth. I'm still fine with this being marketed as a 4K ready PS4, that's something I'd still buy, but I was hoping for more 60fps on this machine. Oh well. Hopefully it's not too expensive.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yah I have a feeling it will be $499, but the core hardware isn't really worth it IMO. The build cost shouldn't really be any greater than the launch PS4 was, which was more or less profitable from the get go. I guess they can stick a big HDD in there to help justify the inflated price somewhat.
They gotta be careful though because I doubt the Scorpio will be anymore than $499. The ~1 year headstart helps but I dunno, it sounds expensive to me at that price.
Btw, if you want to learn more about these temporal rendering techniques, check B3D, there is a thread started by sebbbi that goes into more detail about the different techs.
dead monkey uk
Member
I wonder if the reason they are sticking with Jaguar is ease of development between PS4 and Neo mode.
It means that SE doesn't have any obligation to have a NEO mode in XV, patching later is up to the developer but if you're shipping later than that date you must support NEO. That's what they mean I think.
For games that are gpu bound this could push them to 60fps. For games that are cpu bound it could help stabilise framerate.
gundamkyoukai
Member
The only games that really have a problem getting 60fps this gen are open world games .
Truth is i not certain if devs would go for 60fps on consoles in open world games over more npcs , better draw distance etc etc .
That is if the games cpu bound to begin with .
geordiemp
Member
Yeah, also disappointing thinking we need 4K display and fancy rendering.
Damn 1080p is just fine, just want my open world games with better frame rates.
Damn...looks like I will just build a gaming PC for those open world games that Ps4 cant handle,, and looks like will not be getting any better next year....
If Sony believe that 4K and dipping below 30 FPS for games like witcher 3 in 2017 will maybe convince console enthusiasts not to consider a mid range PC I have no words. I have a 4K TV and dont give a shit.
1080p framerate...framerate...framerate.....lighting...effects....frame rate>>>>>>>>>>4K
Wait, so a PS4 right now will not push you into PC gaming, but an optional upgrade to the one you already have not being powerful enough would push you into PC? So why exactly would NEO even matter in that case if you were going to go to PC anyway despite already owning a PS4?
This is why i don't think the concept of iterative units makes any sense and why i'm generally not interested in NEO or Scorpio. Your still just paying for a unit to play current games a little better. The hardware neccesary for that kind of upgrade is going to generally not be worth it if it doesn't hit the requirements of many gamers to make such an upgrade worth it.
Especially if they bring out PS5 with the full fat ZEN, much stronger GPU, much better RAM ect complete with BC of PS4 and NEO games, it makes owning a NEO pointless in general outside of the few years of it being on the market.
I'd rather Sony have just waited with PS4's hardware and upgraded to PS5 like normal.
No matter what, $499 would be a stupid bussiness decision.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I don't know about that .
Was planing to get a 4K TV this year but change my mind since there is not enough content.
But upscaling is never good enough on fix displays.
R10Neymarfan
Member
All AMD new hardware should have the capability to display HDR now. I remember reading that before RX 480 rumors started
Sony aren't mandating 4K rendering with this thing, and most devs arent going to get there anyway. All they mandate is 1080p minimum and comparable or better fps to regular PS4. So devs are trying out downsampling with higher than 1080p resolutions, like 1440p and the like. Its not that hard a concept to grasp.
So you started with PC gaming and then went PS4 with plans to go back to PC gaming? Can I ask why?
dead monkey uk
Member
This is going to be very interesting, I think Sony are going to make sure the Neo is nowhere near the price of the Scorpio at its launch. If the MS release the Scorpio at $499 I would think Sony will have the Neo around $399.
vpance
Member
Late Sept titles need a Neo day 1 patch.
MisterXDTV
Member
I don't know the release date of that document but I think Sony knows that with those specs they can't reach 4K so they will push for a resolution between 1440p and 2160p. This gives you great downsample quality to 1080p and great upscaling to 2160p for 4K sets.
The other possibility is a dual mode approach: 1080p when a 1080p TV is connected and 2160p (probably upscaled from 18xxp) when UHDTV is connected....
The other possibility is a dual mode approach: 1080p when a 1080p TV is connected and 2160p (probably upscaled from 18xxp) when UHDTV is connected....
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I was already thinking about building a PC after it became apparent just how underpowred these consoles were. It was just a matter of when and people were saying it would smart to hold off with the new tech coming from AMD and Nvidia(which is starting to happen now). Then I thought maybe this PS4 Neo would be enough to satisfy me performance wise, but it won't be if these specs are final. Maybe I'm wrong and this thing will punch above its weight in reality, but on paper it is super underwhelming.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
High end PS4 is barely mid-range but ho hum still interested.
Then it came down to a difference of opinion. For me it was the opposite, NEO is pointless cause PS4 is still outputting great results.
For you, PS4 wasn't cutting it so you wanted a stronger unit. But then without stronger hardware of a specific level, it would not have mattered to begin with, so generally you were probably always going to go back to PC.
Based on what House said, NEO isnt to stop people from going to PC outright as PC will always be stronger, but to mitigate "late 7th gen long in the tooth" syndrome where games were so far behind performance wise with a 7 or 8 year old defcit, it was too obvious.
An iterative unit in general probably will not get a lot of people to bother upgrading without a great trade in program or something similar.
CONFIDENTIAL
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I didn't start with PC, but I was PC only for about 4 years or so. Had a top of the line gaming laptop(which in retrospect was a fucking rip-off, but I didn't know any better back then). I can't remember exactly why I started playing console against , but I think it was because I saw Uncharted 2 and the inFAMOUS games and they really appealed to me. I do remember thinking that those games looked kinda shit compared what my PC was outputting(I didn't buy a PS3 until late 2011), but I guess I got use to it. After my laptop died I just never invested into another gaming PC because at the time I was content. Now I'm not. I really don't want another one, but it seems I have no choice if I want satisfactory performance.
I'll think I will still be console first just because I really like Sony published games and plug and play nature of consoles, but getting another PC will give me access to all the games and way to avoid shitty performance for the most part. I'm still gonna hope for 5TF and Zen in the Neo until it's official though.
Omnistalgic
Member
Yeah, then what is MS doing with Scorpio? Just stealth resetting because XB1 lost? Theyve said they can make a substantially more powerful box without alienating anyone, its PR but if these things are b/c, I dont see whats the harm in offering the best available tech in 2016 for a premium PS4. Again, I just keep coming back to whats the point?"
Perhaps...
Really? even if the base PS4 is half that? I dunno, that seems kinda attractive IMO. A entry model console with thousands of games that look amazing, or a premium console with a bigger HDD, better tech that makes those games look even better.
mitchman
Gold Member
It's not unheard of that the up the specifications in the final console, just look at PS4, so it's not a lock until they say so
Feel free to post a link.serversurfer
Member
That PDF seems fishy. Very odd that SIE don't know their own name, and the document was last modified on 4/20, yet talks about May in the past tense.
I'd have never guessed.
LurkFish17
Member
Something seems a bit off or at the very least outdated with that leaked document. Since this leak is based on the old one from earlier this year. I personally am still going to hold out hope for a bit more of a boost.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It's not unheard of that the up the specifications in the final console, just look at PS4, so it's not a lock until they say so
What about PS4 specs? 1.84TF was leaked 18 months before launch without change....
Well, I haven't seen a single dev or insider here on GAF state it is fake/wrong/outdated. Also the GB/DF silence on these docs being posted online speaks volumes to me.
I'm not sure why most are clinging on to possible higher specs. All logic points to the lower spec and surely it would be better to expect lower and be surprised if Sony pull a higher spec rabbit out of the hat.
mitchman
Gold Member
They doubled the GDDR memory without and dev kits having that, and early dev kits had a widely different specification than the final console.