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Digital Foundry: Spec Analysis: Xbox Project Scorpio

T

TheHellsLord

Member
My guess would be that they are talking about the color compression that is going on when running 4k over a pre-HDMI 2.0 connection or something like that. However I'd assume that holds true for the One S too given that it supports HDR.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Renekton said:
No point having 6TF GPU and 320GB/s bandwidth if a lightweight Jaguar CPU is feeding them.
Click to expand...

plenty of point sticking with Jaguar.

- Keeps the die area down for CPU so you can max the GPU. Zen would take a lot more space and is also unproven in an APU situation
- Games likely still targetting PS4/XB1 so will be tuned around Jaguar's capabilities. Then the extra GPU on Scorpio goes to work to render at a higher resolution and detail levels that aren't so reliant on CPU
 
K

KratosEnergyDrink

Member
CassidyIzABeast said:
grass2hqjni.png


Scorpio is for the PS4/X1 grass difference is huge and meme worthy while the difference between PC and PS4 is meh crowd.
Click to expand...

Talking about grass...

29.jpg

WVW69ioRT5YuPaZ8QY

xenoblade-chronicles-x-running.jpg

35.jpg


Wii U is more powerful than PS4/PC/Scorpio confirmed and Xenoblade Chronicles X is the most beautiful open world game this gen (the last part is true).
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
But this is due in 2017 and Neo is rumored for 2016. PS4 Neo could get a yearly refresh in 2017 that matches Scorpio
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
...Scatter... said:
Extremely Trump. Because comparing consoles to racist right wing tools is appropriate.
Click to expand...
Ever heard tongue in cheek? Besides, it was a reference to all-hot air no substance, which had been more Trump trademark than the racism (which I think is a recent thing for him).
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
hemo memo said:
I truly think Microsoft is turning this around with play anywhere games and clearly they have a clear vision and learned from the first reveal. The conference was the best by far and Sony's one was middcore and with first titles with release date announce mostly getting delayed as usual and with the Crash remaster troll made everything worse.

Not just about power but there's a clear vision.
Click to expand...

--------------------------
"But why would I buy a scorpio when I can get way more power from my dedicated gaming PC?"

"Cool - enjoy your gaming PC and play our games from the W10 store"

--------------------------
"I'm limited on budget but I want to play great games now. I'm thinking to upgrade to a PC in a year or two"

"Great - buy our Xbox one S now and later on if you buy a gaming PC you can play our games on that for no extra cost, and take your saves and friends lists with you"

--------------------------
"I like the convenience of a console under my TV compared to a PC, but they get outdated after a few years"

"Scorpio next year will play all your current XB1 games and new ones at a level comparable to a high end PC now"



They're covering a lot of bases by having two power levels for consoles and the cross-buy for PC. What would be a killer blow would be if they could persuade third parties to do that, but I expect that is a step too far.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
Ravage said:
This is going to end badly for the xbox division imo.

1. XB2 will cost significantly more than NEO for questionable gains (worsening CPU-GPU imbalance + every dev will be targeting vanilla PS4 as base)

2. The target audience of XB2 overlaps with the PC crowd, and the sharing of exclusives is only going to entice them to go full PC instead.
Click to expand...

They have to keep the Jaguar if they want to make porting easier between systems. But it's not going to help the Scorpio if games can't reach 60fps.
 
A

AmFreak

Member
Bsigg12 said:
AMD at Computer already said they have a Zen based APU in the works for 2017. This looks like it is just that.
Click to expand...

Yes and that APU has 4 cores and is supposed to be used in desktops meaning it can draw 100W. And now double the cpu cores and quintuple the gpu ...
 
S

Septic360

Banned
Digital Foundry say:

It's also unfeasible for Sony to produce a radically revised Neo - the silicon has been designed, developer kits have gone out. Matching Scorpio would require scrapping Neo's existing processor completely.
Click to expand...

Is this really the case? Is the prospect of the Neo not coming back more powerful than the X1 really low?

I dunno; will Sony allow MS to deliver a more comprehensive 4K Capable machine? I know they have less pressure on them considering the remarkable success of the PS4 but in this industry you just cant rest on your falafel.
 
R

Renekton

Member
mrklaw said:
plenty of point sticking with Jaguar.

- Keeps the die area down for CPU so you can max the GPU. Zen would take a lot more space and is also unproven in an APU situation
- Games likely still targetting PS4/XB1 so will be tuned around Jaguar's capabilities. Then the extra GPU on Scorpio goes to work to render at a higher resolution and detail levels that aren't so reliant on CPU
Click to expand...
Zen cores don't sound very big, besides Polaris 10 so far is a small die so they got lots of room anyways.

Septic360 said:
Is this really the case? Is the prospect of the Neo not coming back more powerful than the X1 really low?

I dunno; will Sony allow MS to deliver a more comprehensive 4K Capable machine? I know they have less pressure on them considering the remarkable success of the PS4 but in this industry you just cant rest on your falafel.
Click to expand...
If Scorpio still uses weak Jaguar CPUs, then meh let them have the GPU crown.
 
dead monkey uk

dead monkey uk

Member
Theorry said:
If Neo was to come out in 2016 they would have said that last night.
Click to expand...

No they would not, they could easily launch at Gamescon, TGS or a press only event and still launch this year. Look at the Xbox One S revealed and launched within a few weeks.

4 months from reveal to market is plenty of time to launch an updated console, Neo is not a new gen.
 
L

leeh

Member
Septic360 said:
Digital Foundry say:



Is this really the case? Is the prospect of the Neo not coming back more powerful than the X1 really low?

I dunno; will Sony allow MS to deliver a more comprehensive 4K Capable machine? I know they have less pressure on them considering the remarkable success of the PS4 but in this industry you just cant rest on your falafel.
Click to expand...
Unless they want to take a huge loss in R&D and delay the project till after Scorpios release, which is massively unlikely, then yeah it is the case unfortunately.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
Septic360 said:
Digital Foundry say:



Is this really the case? Is the prospect of the Neo not coming back more powerful than the X1 really low?

I dunno; will Sony allow MS to deliver a more comprehensive 4K Capable machine? I know they have less pressure on them considering the remarkable success of the PS4 but in this industry you just cant rest on your falafel.
Click to expand...
I don't think Sony was aware of the Scorpio plans until we all found out via the leaks last month or whenever they were. They pulled neo talk out of E3 to wait and see what Microsoft would say at their E3 conference.

Not sure if neo was planned for 2016 or 2017 originally, but there aren't enough games to show off the console yet, which is another factor in them holding it back for now.

Chances of it being revised at this point are slim- devkits are already in-hand.
 
K

Killer Queen

Banned
Serious question: I'm considering getting the Neo and Scorpio except I don't have a 4k TV and I don't plan to get one any time soon, obviously the improvements will still benefit one with a 1080p TV right?
 
C

creatchee

Member
mrklaw said:
They're covering a lot of bases by having two power levels for consoles and the cross-buy for PC. What would be a killer blow would be if they could persuade third parties to do that, but I expect that is a step too far.
Click to expand...

If Valve and Microsoft made nice-nice and partnered up, shit would get crazy. The Windows Store is not very good atm, and nobody would miss it if they scrapped it and went full-on Steam For Xbox. It's probably a pipe dream, but Microsoft and Valve would quite literally take over gaming if they could iron out an agreement that benefits both parties in regards to crossbuying and profit sharing etc.

As for specific publishers, I could actually see a crossbuy deal with EA happening first.
 
T

Theorry

Member
dead monkey uk said:
No they would not, they could easily launch at Gamescon, TGS or a press only event and still launch this year. Look at the Xbox One S revealed and launched within a few weeks.

4 months from reveal to market is plenty of time to launch an updated console, Neo is not a new gen.
Click to expand...

The slim is a whole different thing. This is almost a new gen.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
Killer Queen said:
Serious question: I'm considering getting the Neo and Scorpio except I don't have a 4k TV and I don't plan to get one any time soon, obviously the improvements will still benefit one with a 1080p TV right?
Click to expand...
Definitely. Games will run smooth and look super sharp, even on 1080p tvs. It's a win-win.
 
R

RE4PRR

Member
Well I'm not buying another Xbox again. They fucked me over when they started making all their Xbox exclusive games Xbox and Pc exclusive, I'll just stick to ps4/pc in the future.

It being in 2017 screams Vega though, especially being more TF then the rumored 480x in the Neo.
 
T

Tatsumi Oga

Banned
I have to admit that i don't know a whole lot about this, but MS would be fools if they come with such good specs except for that the CPU will be th3 bottleneck. Why go all out and introduce "the most powerful console ever." But still have a weak CPU? If Jaguar is indeed considered weak, that i don't know.

But i really doubt that.
 
T

The Baron Count

Member
Septic360 said:
Digital Foundry say:



Is this really the case? Is the prospect of the Neo not coming back more powerful than the X1 really low?

I dunno; will Sony allow MS to deliver a more comprehensive 4K Capable machine? I know they have less pressure on them considering the remarkable success of the PS4 but in this industry you just cant rest on your falafel.
Click to expand...

Sony aren't even trying to deliver a real 4K machine at all and it remains to be seen how well the scorpio can handle 4K even with the extra power.

And no they can't just decide to change their specs at the last second, just because they are x86 now doesn't mean that the rules of making consoles suddenly change in that regard. These things are carefully planned and have to be tested before they are manufactured. These companies aren't just building a PC with parts off of NewEgg or something.

I think people are looking at this wrong in a lot of ways. Given what MS said, it doesn't seem like there will be any real discrepancy at all in terms of visuals aside from resolution. Making a 4K Xbox One means exactly that. Current gen visuals at 4K. And I am not convinced that the average consumer really cares all that much about 4K yet, I certainly don't.

I expect we will see games looking almost identical across the Neo and Scorpio with the Scorpio running them at higher resolution. It would essentially be a reversal of what we have seen so far this gen.

Tatsumi Oga said:
I have to admit that i don't know a whole lot about this, but MS would be fools if they come with such good specs except for that the CPU will be th3 bottleneck. Why go all out and introduce "the most powerful console ever." But still have a weak CPU? If Jaguar is indeed considered weak, that i don't know.

But i really doubt that.
Click to expand...

As has been stated, if they are intending to focus on increased resolutions then the CPU doesn't really make a difference.
 
M

Maximilian Kolbe

Member
Septic360 said:
Digital Foundry say:



Is this really the case? Is the prospect of the Neo not coming back more powerful than the X1 really low?

I dunno; will Sony allow MS to deliver a more comprehensive 4K Capable machine? I know they have less pressure on them considering the remarkable success of the PS4 but in this industry you just cant rest on your falafel.
Click to expand...
Neo coming this fall is very likely because Neo+VR combo.
 
S

Sydle

Member
Theorry said:
If Neo was to come out in 2016 they would have said that last night.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Other companies like Apple do surprise launches often, or have announcements close to the release date.

Nvidia just did something similar where they official announcement and unveiling was within a month.

creatchee said:
If Valve and Microsoft made nice-nice and partnered up, shit would get crazy. The Windows Store is not very good atm, and nobody would miss it if they scrapped it and went full-on Steam For Xbox. It's probably a pipe dream, but Microsoft and Valve would quite literally take over gaming if they could iron out an agreement that benefits both parties in regards to crossbuying and profit sharing etc.

As for specific publishers, I could actually see a crossbuy deal with EA happening first.
Click to expand...

If MS allowed Steam and GoG on Xbox I'd replace my desktop PC with Scorpio. I don't imagine they'll do it, but it's nice to dream.
 
dead monkey uk

dead monkey uk

Member
Theorry said:
The slim is a whole different thing. This is almost a new gen.
Click to expand...

Its not almost a new gen, there will be no exclusive titles. I agree Slim is not the same as the Neo, but the Slim is a (slight) upgrade over the Xbox One. Reveal the Neo in August/September and release in October/November would work fine and not effect sales as much as announcing at E3.
 
K

Killer Queen

Banned
wesleyshark said:
Definitely. Games will run smooth and look super sharp, even on 1080p tvs. It's a win-win.
Click to expand...
I tried to explain this to a friend when he was bitching about my interest in the consoles complaining that 'your TV isn't high res so the graphics wouldn't make a difference to you' 'my games run at 40fps on ps4 the only reason yours don't is because your ps4 has too much stuff on it, why pay money for 20 more fps"
I'm well aware that that isn't at all how things work
But I'm glad to know my suspicions were correct and that it'll still be a great purchase.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
I feel it is going to get to a point with new systems every 2-3 years where it will beg the question, 'How much more power do we really need right now?' I know I sure as hell will be feeling that way after getting a system like Scorpio, and likely the Neo as well. But thankfully, it looks like it is going to be okay to feel that way and wait according to the road map. I have come to terms with that and will be fine with waiting every 4-5 years.
 
vpance

vpance

Member
Septic360 said:
Digital Foundry say:



Is this really the case? Is the prospect of the Neo not coming back more powerful than the X1 really low?

I dunno; will Sony allow MS to deliver a more comprehensive 4K Capable machine? I know they have less pressure on them considering the remarkable success of the PS4 but in this industry you just cant rest on your falafel.
Click to expand...

A verified insider already said Sony has a considerably more powerful plan B in the works. Might cost more than $499.
 
D

daveo42

Banned
Dahaka said:
The Neo is the "PS4S", the real upgrade will come further down the line

BELIEVE
Click to expand...

That would be Sony's best option at this point, though it doesn't seem like MS is pushing HDR and 4k as much on devs with their 'S' console. Then again, it was just announced so that might change soon. I'm sure AMD is probably helping to push Sony in that direction as well so they can sell more APUs in next-gen consoles. If this does pan out and consoles contiue to sell well between hardware updates, then this will be very good for AMD.

vpance said:
A verified insider already said Sony has a considerably more powerful plan B in the works. Might cost more than $499.
Click to expand...

Who and on top of that, hardware prices will probably come down if they target late 2017 release.
 
F

Final Verdict

Member
From what they revealed, I don't think they have the cpu pinned down yet.
They could probably go with Zen, or with the puma (slightly modified jaguar).

I think they are trying to figure out the price point they want to hit, and deciding how aggressive to be.

Good article read btw.
 
B

Bornstellar

Member
Ravage said:
This is going to end badly for the xbox division imo.

1. XB2 will cost significantly more than NEO for questionable gains (worsening CPU-GPU imbalance + every dev will be targeting vanilla PS4 as base)

2. The target audience of XB2 overlaps with the PC crowd, and the sharing of exclusives is only going to entice them to go full PC instead.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'd say it's just as likely to go the other direction. Getting the power in a console ecosystem is very attractive.
 
S

sunshine and gasoline

Banned
dead monkey uk said:
Reveal the Neo in August/September and release in October/November would work fine and not effect sales as much as announcing at E3.
Click to expand...

I don't know it would be wise to have such a short reveal to release for the Neo. I can easily see some gamers who purchased a PS4 in June/July/before the reveal being pissed at the Neo being revealed and launched so soon. I imagine that quite a few would have preferred to wait it out for the Neo.
 
V

VinFTW

Member
vpance said:
A verified insider already said Sony has a considerably more powerful plan B in the works. Might cost more than $499.
Click to expand...
Lol

How can sony afford to have two friggin systems in development? This is unheard of and highly unlikely, no?
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
VinFTW said:
Lol

How can sony afford to have two friggin systems in development? This is unheard of and highly unlikely, no?
Click to expand...

Given X1 and PS4 are basically using off-the-shelf PC parts, I would imagine R&D costs for iterative improvements are substantially cheaper than previous generational consoles have been.
 
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