Support NeoGAF

[Gbraga]

Devs only have 1.18 Tflops to work with, this is a hardware issue.

Could be if the game was multiplatform. It's an exclusive game, 60fps is a design decision. If you want locked 60 you'll make how many compromises you have to achieve that with the hardware you have available.

They didn't want to sacrifice zombie count or whatever the reason is for the drops and instead were ok with 20 at those parts, it's that simple.

I may be completely wrong though, I'm not a developer of any kind.

 

[Chance Hale]

Tonnes of enemies but with barely any AI has been done countless times.

See Heavenly Sword, Kameo, there's even one PS2 game where the name escapes me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS0psmmGsvs

The quality of the models matters, as does the AI. The giant enemy sequences in Heavenly Sword and Kameo were neat at the time but the models used weren't very detailed(especially in Kameo's case) and didn't really have interesting reactions other than flap about in the air and disappear.

Every zombie in Dead Rising 3 on the other hand has to have any number of animations involved with getting hit with weapons, smacked into, etc. Every single one has different body parts, clothes, and modeled internal organs as there are dozens if not hundreds of ways in which they break apart. And the AI is hardly advanced but they still swarm and have various ways of attack. Just not the same thing, the examples you give are basically the same as Dynasty Warriors.

Still doesn't excuse the performance though.

 

[Feorax]

Why are you buying an X1 if your enjoyment of it is contingent upon good-looking games with a steady framerate? I don't mean this as a "hurr durr X1 is less powerful than the PS4" slight, but rather it simply doesn't make much sense to me to buy a console when the things you desire are unknown quantities at this juncture. It brings to mind the cries from many PS3 fans when FFXIII X360 was announced, who felt cheated because they'd bought a more expensive console to play a particular game -- granted, it was believed to be PS3-exclusive prior to the "megaton", but the point is that if they had only waited, they could have opted for the cheaper alternative instead.

Well to be fair, MS still has some big names wrapped up as exclusives. I'll probably get an XB1 for Halo if it's received well.

That being said, there's only so much I'll be willing to take between now and Halo's launch before I just think "fuck it, it's not worth it for a handful of exclusives". I wish I'd done that with the PS3 to be honest, although at least the PS3 has strong support at the end of it's life-cycle.

 

[fantomena]

I bet the the cloud will bosst the FPS to 60.

 

[Huggers]

Surely if the frame rate is going as low as 16fps other concessions should have been made. Less zombies might be a good place to start as you don't want to mess with the textures too much more

 

[MMaRsu]

if i was i developer and had to work on a 100gflops machine i would do point and click adventure

certainly not an FPS

Dude wtf are you even saying can you ever directly respond to a question from another poster? You're dodging questions like Ali dodges punches.

The question he asked was, if more games end up like this will you claim all of the had lazy developers working on them?

 

[zainetor]

Doesn't even look current gen quality, never mind next gen. A real disappointment.

lol keep going with the hyperbole.

 

[statham]

I bet the the cloud will bosst the FPS to 60.

most likely.

 

[Steroyd]

i know most of ppl would end there.....

sorry leghorn...this time the tf are the wrong place to find the problem

Clearly the hardware doesn't have enough brute force to fulfill the developers ambitions, standards should be raising when new more powerful hardware is being bought, Dead Rising, should have been the type of title to benefit from stronger hardware.

 

[Dictator93]

Dude wtf are you even saying can you ever directly respond to a question from another poster? You're dodging questions like Ali dodges punches.

Do not even try. It is futile.

 

[DBT85]

Dude wtf are you even saying can you ever directly respond to a question from another poster? You're dodging questions like Ali dodges punches.

At least Ali would come back later with a knockout. Kayle just runs around screaming.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

Weird, all the people who played it didnt mentioned these problems.

I'd wait for official reviews before judging

 

[FranXico]

Rushed. For shame.

 

[crinale]

Someone at MS is now getting spanked for moneyhatting this one.

I was thinking the same thing too.

 

[DJ12]

Looks like Richard has accepted he was trying to back a loser. A very scathing article about his beloved Xbox.

 

[REV 09]

DR was never a looker. Disappointed about the framerate though.

Edit: lol at people thinking digital foundry was ever biased.

 

[neptunes]

If more games end up like this are you going to say they are all just lazy devs?

20Fps? no

Tools and HW design, developers should be able to realize their ideas without having to be wizards (a la PS2 & 3)

You can see the difference in titles where MS has a hand in development (Forza, Ryse) and titles where MS isn't (Pretty much everything else)

 

[le.phat]

i don't get it. So drop a LITTLE bit of the chaos and bring that shit back to 30. Just like 720P should be the absolute minimum, so should 30 fps be. Both Sony and Microsoft have to mandate that shit. There has to be a baseline!

 

[Batigol]

How does Capcom always have framerate issues with this series? Especially on a more powerful machine?

Are they just incompetent? Because I don't know any more developers that constantly have issues with a series

 

[Hindle]

Oh in which case that's okay. I hadn't realised they were used to it......

6m people have bought the DR franchise so far, and the series has always had numerous issues graphically and in terms of framerate. It's obvious people who play these games don't particular care about those issues.

 

[Hanmik]

Looks like Richard has accepted he was trying to back a loser. A very scathing article about his beloved Xbox.

this article is written by Thomas Morgan..

 

[mxgt]

Ugly and runs like shit. What a great start.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

When people say it looks last gen they aren't comparing it to it's predecessor but a moderately good looking PS360 game. Could you compare the graphics to the last Halo or TLOU?

About the fanbase you better believe they expect the game to look a lot better on new hardware. It may look good enough for them and do enough for them but they expect more if they have to buy a newly made console for it. It's like saying Gran Turismo fans know what they're getting, they don't care about the graphics or the amount of cars on the screen. Ok GT might not match since it's usually a great looking game, but you can use Resident Evil instead.

Any time new hardware is out and bought, people buy games to see what that puppy can do. Think back on the first times you had with each first console the different generations. Expensive console + game + maybe a second controller. You better had picked a good game because maybe you would be stuck with that for a while, and it better show off that spending the money was worth it.

Ironically, my first console last gen (or more accurately, since SNES) was PS3 with Motorstorm bundled.

It looked great, but I chucked it as soon as I bought resistance.

The shiny wrapper effect only lasts for so long. What keeps people playing games is not the textures. Not even the fps unless its 100% crucial to the experience.

Story/gameplay/general addictiveness is why people put in the hours. Visuals don't have to be picturesque to be immersive, although it does help depending on the game.

I guess my last point is that imo, nobody is buying the system for one game. Especially early adopters. Its like the "nobody buys a console just for release titles" argument that was going around during the "[non indie]PS4 exclusives at launch look sparse" episode.

Looks like Richard has accepted he was trying to back a loser. A very scathing article about his beloved Xbox.

this article is written by Thomas Morgan..

lol

 

[Miles Quaritch]

It's also unfortunate that the game runs at far from the promised locked 30fps - rather a chugging 20fps during the zombie action while out in the big city.

Having played it, I can't agree with this. Game was silky smooth at the X1 tour.

 

[coldfoot]

i was talking about exclusives that will run at less than 1080p ....(that im sure before or later will arrive...)

I don't know if you're for real or a CBOAT impersonator with that typing style, but there are already PS4 exclusives that run at less than 1080p. The Order is 1920x800, which is about 25% less pixels than full 1080p.

So even though you try to move the goalposts when you're completely owned, you still fail. DR3, ported straight to PS4, would not run/look this bad. The Cerny TTT (Time to Triangle) stuff is real, and is meant to benefit smaller and mid-size teams as they have to worry less about making their games run so they can focus on optimization.

 

[DBT85]

20Fps? no

Tools and HW design, developers should be able to realize their ideas without having to be wizards (a la PS2 & 3)

You can see the difference in titles where MS has a hand in development (Forza, Ryse) and titles where MS isn't (Pretty much everything else)

I wasn't asking if things will improve. Of course they will.

I was asking if more games come out with the same problems, if Kayle will just blame lazy devs for all of them.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Damn. This was one of my 'must have' games, but drops to 20fps is really disappointing.

Having played it, I can't agree with this. Game was silky smooth at the X1 tour.

Huh, that sounds encouraging. Maybe it's only in one or two spots. Guess I'll wait for more impressions after it's out.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Not locked at 30 and only 720p...
Eek

 

[mugoldeneagle03]

We all expect 720p sub 30fps on 7 year old hardware.

The point I was making was I'm reading a lot of "more zombies", or "supposed to be a 360 game" or "most launch games will look like this" excuses when if it was reviewed on 360 it would be getting a 7/8 tops. Which isn't that impressive.

This is pretty disappointing for someone waiting for good Xbone game news to appear

 

[JaseC]

Well to be fair, MS still has some big names wrapped up as exclusives. I'll probably get an XB1 for Halo if it's received well.

Sure, but his posts suggests that image quality and performance are of particular importance to him, which makes a pre-order rather premature and, as implied, a potential waste of money if he's just going to come out of the other side disappointed.

 

[Chance Hale]

Having played it, I can't agree with this. Game was silky smooth at the X1 tour.

One can only hope the build they had access to wasn't the final one, although why it would have been shown at the event anyway is an interesting question if it isn't.

 

[Tsundere]

What was expected to happen, happened.

CAPCPOM lied about locked framerates and the technical fellows who were contracted to help them out, weren't able to squeeze out the lowest of the low of the expected performance for a next-generation console.

This is not utter disappointment and embarrassment not only for Xbox One buyers, but for the developers and publishers themselves.

 

[grandwizard]

16 fps is not next-gen.

 

[Broder Salsa]

16 fps is not next-gen.

It's more cinematic this way, I never like +24fps in games.

 

[eso76]

Only if your hardware isn't up to the task.

That doesn't really have a lot to do with it.

I'll write that again.

Any sandbox game, where the amount of stuff going on can't be controlled or constrained by the developers, will always show framerate dips.

You can design your game to only use 50% of the GPU in typical situations, so that when things get a lot busier than expected, with the player mowing through hundreds of zombies in a flame throwing steamroller (with shadows being cast accurately by multiple dynamic light sources like headlights and beacons) you still have a lot of spare power to handle things without your framerate dropping.

Or you can have a game that uses 80% of your resources in typical conditions and be able to maintain 30fps for 'a lot of the time' but still suffer from framerate dips when things get extremely messy.

Point is the huge 'variability' in the amount of stuff that can be going on at once in DR.
Either you 'underuse' your hardware a lot of the time, or you risk a few slowdowns.

The point is striking a balance, and from what i've seen, things are not bad at all in DR3.

Dynamic resolution wouldn't have been a bad idea

 

[neptunes]

I wasn't asking if things will improve. Of course they will.

I was asking if more games come out with the same problems, if Kayle will just blame lazy devs for all of them.

It's best to ignore him. it's pretty simple.

 

[Burgess_101]

Thats just horrible. Anything lower than 30 fps in next gen should just be scoffed at. I recently started playing my PS3 backlog and playing lower than 30 is difficult (playing SUDA51 games you better get used to it though).

Im spoilt on my computer.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

16 fps is not next-gen.

Gets upscaled to infinite FPS by your eyes anyway...

 

[Gbraga]

Weird, all the people who played it didnt mentioned these problems.

I'd wait for official reviews before judging

All the people who played GTA V before release were saying it was stable 30 as well. People tend to get hyped and not notice such things.

It's not likely of DF to be wrong about framerate, they even provide video evidence.

 

[Steroyd]

I don't know if you're for real or a CBOAT impersonator with that typing style, but there are already PS4 exclusives that run at less than 1080p. The Order is 1920x800, which is about 25% less pixels than full 1080p.

I believe The Order actually does render the game in 1080p, it's just that it has black borders at the top and bottom like Beyond Two Souls.

Even if you don't want to count it as 1080p it can't be upscaled to 1080p either way.

 

[Broder Salsa]

Gets upscaled to infinite FPS by your eyes anyway...

If you got a bravia tv you just enable motionflow to avoid your eyes overheating from all that upscaling.

 

[Thrakier]

i don't get it. So drop a LITTLE bit of the chaos and bring that shit back to 30. Just like 720P should be the absolute minimum, so should 30 fps be. Both Sony and Microsoft have to mandate that shit. There has to be a baseline!

The game "The Last of Us" from Naughty Dog won many Game of the Year and probably also GOO awards. It's praised from all reviewers and a lot of fans. On average it runs with about 26FPS.

Same for GTA V.

There is no baseline.

 

[CambriaRising]

That's disappointing. Hopefully they might try to improve performance with a patch, but I know they won't because it's Capcom.

 

[jet1911]

To think that MS will be stuck with this hardware for the next 7 or 8 years...

 

[coldfoot]

I believe The Order actually does render the game in 1080p, it's just that it has black borders at the top and bottom like Beyond Two Souls.

Even if you don't want to count it as 1080p it can't be upscaled to 1080p either way.

It is not rendering at 1080p. It's rendering 1920x800 and then puts two black bars 1920x140 on the top and bottom. You are right that it's not upscaled, but that's not relevant, you're still getting less pixels than full 1080p, only difference is that those pixels aren't being blown up, but instead you're sacrificing from the visible area of your TV.

 

[Burgess_101]

The game "The Last of Us" from Naughty Dog won many Game of the Year and probably also GOO awards. It's praised from all reviewers and a lot of fans. On average it runs with about 26FPS.

Same for GTA V.

There is no baseline.

For the next gens I guess people expect just a little more.

 

[hwy_61]

The game "The Last of Us" from Naughty Dog won many Game of the Year and probably also GOO awards. It's praised from all reviewers and a lot of fans. On average it runs with about 26FPS.

Same for GTA V.

There is no baseline.

Holy...seriously? I never noticed in TLoU! How come I can notice framerate more in GTA and Farcry 3 but not in TLoU?

 

[Gbraga]

That doesn't really have a lot to do with it.

I'll write that again.

Any sandbox game, where the amount of stuff going on can't be controlled or constrained by the developers, will always show framerate dips.

You can design your game to only use 50% of the GPU in typical situations, so that when things get a lot busier than expected, with the player mowing through hundreds of zombies in a flame throwing steamroller (with shadows being cast accurately by multiple dynamic light sources like headlights and beacons) you still have a lot of spare power to handle things without your framerate dropping.

Or you can have a game that uses 80% of your resources in typical conditions and be able to maintain 30fps for 'a lot of the time' but still suffer from framerate dips when things get extremely messy.

Point is the huge 'variability' in the amount of stuff that can be going on at once in DR.
Either you 'underuse' your hardware a lot of the time, or you risk a few slowdowns.

The point is striking a balance, and from what i've seen, things are not bad at all in DR3.

Dynamic resolution wouldn't have been a bad idea

This makes a lot of sense really, so it depends on how much it drops, if it's way too frequent, then they should have fixed it, if it's not frequent at all and you have to go out of your way to make it drop, it's normal.

I think the bigges issue is that they promised locked 30, they should've just kept their mouth shut, or just say they're working on the framerate and would definitely improve it.

 

[Majanew]

So why were the devs bragging about the game being locked at 30fps? Thought no one would find out they lied?

 

[Hanmik]

The game "The Last of Us" from Naughty Dog won many Game of the Year and probably also GOO awards. It's praised from all reviewers and a lot of fans. On average it runs with about 26FPS.

Same for GTA V.

There is no baseline.

but do you really want games to go down the LAST GEN road, instead of upping the ante and actually be NEXT GEN..?