Yeah is actually good to see this stats about the performance of MK8. It could have been worst and is nice to see that this issue is almost unnoticable to 99% of people who have played it so far. No reviewers stated that like on this article, meaning that they actually didn't notice it at all so that's good. My point was that this type of technical articles can get out of hand sometimes by people who just like to bash stuff, especially when it's about a game/console they don't like.
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Digital Foundry vs Mario Kart 8
- Thread starter XDDX
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Yeah is actually good to see this stats about the performance of MK8. It could have been worst and is nice to see that this issue is almost unnoticable to 99% of people who have played it so far. No reviewers stated that like on this article, meaning that they actually didn't notice it at all so that's good. My point was that this type of technical articles can get out of hand sometimes by people who just like to bash stuff, especially when it's about a game/console they don't like.
Why would you do that?
Member
I think the (rather odd) outrage is coming from the fact that many here likely aren't Digital Foundry's target audience. DF is a great place to read about the little technical details about games, things you wouldn't normally notice. However, many Nintendo fans have a gameplay first mentality and don't really care too much about graphics and tech, and the one that do (like me, sorta) would definitely not hold them over gameplay. To someone who doesn't care at all about that kind of thing, mentioning that one frame drops every 64 frames sounds like finding something negative to say for the sake of it. However, that's something DF always does, and it is not out of malice. It is for the sake of being interesting, informative, and complete.
Digital Foundry provides a lot of technical insight by scrutinizing the smallest details, and it is even a great way to learn a few things about 3D rendering. I very much enjoy reading DF articles about games I will never play and don't care about playing, because the topic really is enjoyable to me. Their articles aren't click-bait, and the goal of the articles isn't to make a game less fun or to turn you away from it. It is just a good read.
It is okay if it is not your thing. If reading articles like that actually make games less fun to you, that's fine, and even understandable, but I think it is a mistake and also just plain mean to call the whole thing trash and Eurogamer, DF, and/or its readers trash because it isn't something you are interested in.
Some of the outrage also seems to come from the fact that DF is criticizing this game harsher than some other games, which I don't really agree with, either... It is clear by the language used in the article that the game is great and that the tiny technical issues (which is their "job" to point out) are near inconsequential, but yet they have to point them out anyway.
Digital Foundry provides a lot of technical insight by scrutinizing the smallest details, and it is even a great way to learn a few things about 3D rendering. I very much enjoy reading DF articles about games I will never play and don't care about playing, because the topic really is enjoyable to me. Their articles aren't click-bait, and the goal of the articles isn't to make a game less fun or to turn you away from it. It is just a good read.
It is okay if it is not your thing. If reading articles like that actually make games less fun to you, that's fine, and even understandable, but I think it is a mistake and also just plain mean to call the whole thing trash and Eurogamer, DF, and/or its readers trash because it isn't something you are interested in.
Some of the outrage also seems to come from the fact that DF is criticizing this game harsher than some other games, which I don't really agree with, either... It is clear by the language used in the article that the game is great and that the tiny technical issues (which is their "job" to point out) are near inconsequential, but yet they have to point them out anyway.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
As I mentioned in this earlier post, I've only seen a single 60fps footage provided by Blim, and I did not notice the issue. In contrast, the youtube videos (granted, at 30fps) of the game are abound with micro stutter, but that means little, as it could be for various reasons (encoders, decoders, current machine load, etc).
Yes.
I only had the disc version but I tried it on two consoles.
The console I used in testing was sent to me as I have an NTSC system and the disc was PAL. Unfortunately, I didn't receive the gamepad (which I discovered to be region locked) and couldn't connect the system to my network. This is why I couldn't capture online footage.
The other system I used was not at my place but the problems were consistent with my findings; AI racers = stuttering
It definitely isn't isolated to one system.
Clockwork5
Member
It was not mentioned in any of the reviews of the game as far as I know.
The frequency-mismatch stutter is really interesting. Maybe the CPU kart AI was brought over from the prequel and is framerate-dependent. That's the first explanation that comes to mind if the stuttering only appears during AI races.
A bummer.
edit: also, it's a real bummer that people are being presented with solid, detailed tech analysis and are rejecting it because it's saying things they don't want to hear.
A bummer.
edit: also, it's a real bummer that people are being presented with solid, detailed tech analysis and are rejecting it because it's saying things they don't want to hear.
dark10x was the person who wrote the article.
The stuttering and the game not being 60 fps with more than two players in split-screen are two different issues. MK Wii also wasn't 60 fps at over two players in split-screen, either.
Have you read other DF threads, the console doesn't matter....it brings out the worst in people.
Good on DF and people like dark I guess, doing such a deep rooted analysis of games, I just don't see how they can enjoy them...I'd rather be oblivious to something like this and enjoy my entertainment, but that's me.
Yes, Mr. gif reply, we got that cleared up...
This thread is comedy gold right now. I've been laughing my ass off all morning.
Solid Samus
Banned
I realized this almost immediately and edited accordingly. Got to it just before you posted this in fact xp
I don't know, I like seeing technical details every now and then and I just don't understand these reactions at all to facts. I understand the outlook of wanting to be oblivious to the tech details, I don't understand rejecting them outright like they're goddamn sacrilege
At least PC gamers generally understand that numbers and facts won't threaten their sense of fun or the strength of their fanboy convictions. I never see this type of shit over a PC game or its inclusion in a comparison. Oh, any crossplatform release is gonna have an argument from the losing side, and any hyped console exclusive that doesn't get top marks in everything, that won't fly, DF! craziness
He wrote the damn article.
Ah, this makes sense. Thanks.
I think the somewhat extreme reactions to the 59FPS thing are largely down to "Nintendo's stratospheric standards", as the article puts it.
Readers get frustrated because they feel that the 'issue' will be misinterpreted by others as a more serious issue than it actually is.
There's nothing wrong with the article and it is for the most part very positive. I found the duplicate frame thing interesting if anything.
The image used to explain texture filtering issues showing the green and pink lanes didn't seem like the best example, especially with the light from the kart shining over the green side.
And also...
It's not always that simple, DF.
Otherwise a good read.
Readers get frustrated because they feel that the 'issue' will be misinterpreted by others as a more serious issue than it actually is.
There's nothing wrong with the article and it is for the most part very positive. I found the duplicate frame thing interesting if anything.
The image used to explain texture filtering issues showing the green and pink lanes didn't seem like the best example, especially with the light from the kart shining over the green side.
And also...
Digital Foundry said:
It's not always that simple, DF.
Otherwise a good read.
lightchris
Member
The reason is different: COD just had the framerate unlocked while it's most likely an unusual bug in MK8's case. But the result is similar. A judder free motion is only possible when the frame rate divides the refresh rate without remainder (60, 30, 20..). Otherwise some frames have to be displayed longer than others, resulting in said judder.
Needless to say, it happens in most console games, as most games don't run at a fixed 60 or 30 fps all the time. It might be more distracting if it is periodic though.
EricDiesel
Member
I probably wouldn't even notice. I'm fine with that.
Also the game still looks gorgeous. God damn.
Also the game still looks gorgeous. God damn.
Solid Samus
Banned
Gosh, wow
That sure is a post alright. Good work son.
And always remember, Don't try. Just do
n't.
Thanks for the response. And lol at region locked Gamepad.
mullet2000
Member
Reading through this thread, it kinda blew my mind how many people complained about "nit-picking" on Digital Foundry's part, "over-blowing" the issue, etc.
It's....a tech site. It's their job to determine exactly how the game runs. Man, I don't get it.
Anyway, I often can't notice stuttering due to non-60-or-30 framerates (although this is a different situation than a pure 59 FPS framerate would be...) so hopefully this isn't an issue for me.
It's....a tech site. It's their job to determine exactly how the game runs. Man, I don't get it.
Anyway, I often can't notice stuttering due to non-60-or-30 framerates (although this is a different situation than a pure 59 FPS framerate would be...) so hopefully this isn't an issue for me.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
There's a 60fps MK8 video footage on DF? Where?
Schnozberry
Member
I pick it up when focused on scrolling text, but not when focused on the game. Not a deal breaker for me. It's a bummer that you're so susceptible to noticing it. Hopefully it can be patched.
I honestly don't understand how so many people here still thought the game was 1080p based on the debunked articles. Just goes to show how misinformation spreads like wildfire if not corrected.
Hopefully Nintendo fixes it. Just tone down the anti-aliasing... Oh wait.
Still gonna be a blast though but I'll wait for the fix. I'm normally sensitive to judder.
Hopefully Nintendo fixes it. Just tone down the anti-aliasing... Oh wait.
Still gonna be a blast though but I'll wait for the fix. I'm normally sensitive to judder.
DeuceGamer
Member
If it's a bug I'd expect it will get patched. Like you say they normally take care of that type of thing. If it's not patched it would make me curious whether their is some sort of strange reason for it. I'm not the most knowledgeable on that sort of thing, but I would think they would already know about it. If they know about it and don't end up fixing it then one would have to wonder why.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Whats funny about this subject is, the writer himself, ( dark? ) says this
How are people getting so up in arms about being able to notice this stuff, when he points out immediately after speaking of the issue that most people will not notice this, and it has zero impact on the actual playability of the game or the visual representation.
... very odd.
How are people getting so up in arms about being able to notice this stuff, when he points out immediately after speaking of the issue that most people will not notice this, and it has zero impact on the actual playability of the game or the visual representation.
... very odd.
Yes there are graphics enthusiasts. Yes there are some on GAF. Instead of telling the poster how glad you are that you are not like them, why don't you resist posting in threads about graphics if it doesn't matter to you personally? As far as I can tell, your posts seem to pretty much equate to" I don't care" which it has already been stated by mods not to do in tech threads.
i like how the article lavishly complimented the game every time it mentioned gameplay or art direction, and even carefully pointed out several times that this is overall a minor issue that won't even be noticed by lots of players and only stands out because of nintendo's usual perfect standards when it comes to framerate
and then this thread happened
and then this thread happened
Because it bothers people who CAN see it. For a goof, I just capped Dark Souls 2 at 59fps and was immediately off put by how jarring it is. It's going to be much worse for a racing game.
condompickle
Banned
yup, still buying. 59 fps or bust! nintendo still got it, wish everyone else realized it. should be called wii amazing.
Saint Gregory
Member
Is the consensus that this is something that can be patched out or not? If it's to devote all system resources to the AI during every 64th frame it doesn't sound promising 
Can this be in any way related to disc version? I think a lot of reviewers got download codes.
Dictator93
Member
You can see it occuring in the prerelease 60fps footage too.
Just watched some.
No one is saying the game looks like shit.. It looks great for a Wii U game, it is just that it has a performance bug which distracts from its fluidity. In fact, it makes the game look pretty darn jittery if you ask me.
Just watched some.
No one is saying the game looks like shit.. It looks great for a Wii U game, it is just that it has a performance bug which distracts from its fluidity. In fact, it makes the game look pretty darn jittery if you ask me.
Which one? Doesn't seem obvious in the gamersyde video.
Dictator93
Member
Saint Gregory
Member
Of course it looks wonderful but not locking the game's framerate into either 30fps or 60fps is unfortunate. No one likes judder.
dark_prinny
Banned
So just 1 frame affects the overall performance of the game and make it noticeable?
I would never have thought that. I´m not a technical guy but that sucks :/
I would never have thought that. I´m not a technical guy but that sucks :/
ChainsawFilms
Member
If there's a repeated frame every 64 frames or whatever (??), that's got to be a bug and I'm sure they can patch it out. Even if it's performance related, surely they can eke out the extra <2% performance to catch up with that missing 60th frame.
Hoping this isn't too jarring in the game. Yep, some people won't notice it, but some will, even if they can't describe why the game looks "odd".
Also, a real shame about no AA.
And yes, odd DF don't make a big issue about games with other much larger frame rate issues, but that doesn't make their observation here any less valid. Every second, they'll be a slight jump for 16ms. Every single second. That's worrying to me.
Hoping this isn't too jarring in the game. Yep, some people won't notice it, but some will, even if they can't describe why the game looks "odd".
Also, a real shame about no AA.
And yes, odd DF don't make a big issue about games with other much larger frame rate issues, but that doesn't make their observation here any less valid. Every second, they'll be a slight jump for 16ms. Every single second. That's worrying to me.
dark_prinny
Banned
I don´t notice anything in that footage.
I don't see it, I tried to focus on different parts of the footage and I'm not seeing it. But I believe you. Good (or bad eyes) for me, I guess.
Thanks! I didn't see a clear link, but I though maybe the repetitiveness of this is anyway related to reading/spinning from disc.
Very unlikely considering how it manifests itself.
After reading the article, it seems those mocking Digital Foundry for nitpicking are nitpicking DF themselves. Because it really is an overwhelmingly positive article. It presents what inconsistencies it found in framerate, texture filtering, etc, because that's what the site is about; once found, they can't just ignore such things, no matter how minor (and especially considering the magical tech Nintendo has proven more than capable of over the years). But even while pointing such details out, it reiterates again and again that these are very minor issues in what's mostly a flawless package. It's written by someone who clearly considers it an amazing game, and who encourages everyone reading to go get the game and have themselves a helluva time. Did you guys read the concluding thoughts?
It's like people want to find a scapegoat.
It's like people want to find a scapegoat.