BassForever
Member
Its one of those things that 99% of people won't notice unless it's pointed out to them and even then during gameplay they probably won't notice it.
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Digital Foundry vs Mario Kart 8
- Thread starter XDDX
- Start date
Its one of those things that 99% of people won't notice unless it's pointed out to them and even then during gameplay they probably won't notice it.
most people won't notice. sucks for those that do.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I said this earlier, but the much more noticable thing isn't the judder. It's the amazing visuals that are taken down a notch due to the lack of AA. Just hurts the overall IQ.
PS: I saw this having played the demo at GS.
PS: I saw this having played the demo at GS.
CouldBeWorse
Member
13 pages in and the defenders still don't get it. It's not about a number. It's about the stutter. Boiling down the whole article to 59 vs 60 completely misses the point and only serves as an uneducated attempt to mask the actual impact of the issue.
It's not something that bothers me all that much, but I can see it being really annoying for someone who is more sensitive to that.
It's not something that bothers me all that much, but I can see it being really annoying for someone who is more sensitive to that.
It is not our eyes, which are perfectly capable of seeing the judder. It's your perception.
ChainsawFilms
Member
Worse than I feared. Certainly looks every second, but could it be the webm? Because the pause looks HUGE. If it's that bad, this is a bug, no way no-one at Nintendo didn't notice that.
Day 1 patch? I'm probably far too optimistic
Apophis2036
Banned
Same here.
Obviously this is a tech thread and people shouldn't be saying stuff like "why are DF nitpicking" ect but there is a case to be made for how noticeable 1fps will be.
I just downloaded all the Gamersyde 60fps videos and try as I might I can't see anything wrong with the footage, like at all.
I feel like there should be more celebration about how the game looks, it's one of if not the best looking WiiU game so far. Great character models, tracks and animations.
dark_prinny
Banned
I guess they had to made sacrifices and they have to go with no AA to get a better framerate?
IAmRandom31
Banned
I have been gaming my entire life, and my eyes are very in tune with frame changes and such like that. But this is not noticeable sorry.
If you notice this, then you may be coming from PC gaming using a 2,000$ PC where everything is 60fps at all times without every moving from that mark and you just havent seen 59fps in 4 years.
No way anyone other then .01% of the population notices that, especially to the point of it being DISTRACTING OR JARRING. That is just a bit ridiculous. I hadn't watched the videos up till now, but from the hyperbole I was expecting something that could make me sick it was so bad. But nope, looks smooth as hell to me! lol.
but still, very jelly of this game. I want it. And may have to steal a friends Wii U for a month or so.
I'm more flipped out about the 720p x No AA stuff. I don't think I've ever heard another number besides 1080p for MK8.
Saint Gregory
Member
Hmm, I always thought I had really good vision for stuff like this but I don't see it either. It doesn't excuse it though, if it's fixable Nintendo should address it.
I don't see a thing, thankfully. Tiny little problems like that normally drive me nuts!
If I really focus on finding it, I can see it. But I never would have noticed if not for this thread, and even then, I can only barely see it.
Not really a problem at all.
Naked Snake
Member
Did not know you worked with DF now. That's cool.
Solid Samus
Banned
Have you actually played a game that has this same kind of bug on show, like Bethesda's open world titles? From my perspective it's pretty damn noticeable in those games and I'm someone who enjoys unlocked framerates and the judder that brings.
I feel like it's fairly noticeable across Gamersyde's 60fps videos but for real never once does it seem nearly as jarring as Fallout/Elder Scroll's microstudder even though this game moves faster.
It's *sort of* like how shutter 3D glasses work on the rendering side, if that's a useful frame of reference. Except it's for players 3/4 rather than for one eye instead of the other.
I'm pondering reasons why that extra frame might appear. 64's an oddly specific number given the computation associations with it.
It was never supposed to be 1080p. Just some sites making a mistake. The game still looks nice though.
ChainsawFilms
Member
If your TV updated at 59hz, this would not be an issue in the slightest. The issue isn't the disparity between 59 and 60fps, which I imagine no-one would actually notice if shown on matching synched monitors. The problem is the pause every second when a frame is duplicated. It's hugely jarring and distracting to some*
*based on a webm, I won't have the game (or the console) until Friday.....
I think you're right in that most won't notice it, heck, I can't see it either myself but I can understand how annoying it would be for those that can. I think there is plenty of praise about how good this game looks from the press. Actually the DF article itself praises the game if you read it. One article and thread about a flaw that some will notice is hardly a case of people at large not appreciating the game graphically. Some people, and not you specifically, are getting way too defensive about this issue.
Otakumegane
Member
Finally I see it but even then I have to really focus on just one aspect of the picture.
Doubt it'll be an issue for me when actually playing which is a relief.
Doubt it'll be an issue for me when actually playing which is a relief.
IAmRandom31
Banned
* sigh *
Yeah, think I'm done with this portion of the conversation. To those who can notice something like this, congratulations! lol.
Do we know where the 1080p stuff originated? I really have never seen any other resolution mentioned for this game.
dark_prinny
Banned
I think it was Eurogamer who first pointed out the game being 1080p.
panda-zebra
Member
I checked through that webm, there are 30 repeated frames throughout the 36 seconds or so of video. Mostly they were after every 64th frame as DF stated, but there were times when they were more often and also a period when there were a consistent 60 unique frames for a few seconds in sequence. Of course doesn't mean much as I don't know where the webm came from or how it was created.
Anyway, here's the dupe frames I noticed in the above webm:
143, 144
147, 148
209, 210
274, 275
339, 340
404, 405
469, 470
534, 535
599, 600
664, 665
729, 730
794, 795
859, 860
924, 925
989, 990
1054, 1055
1119, 1120
1144, 1145
1185, 1186
1250, 1251
no dupe frames for a while here
1699, 1700
1764, 1765
1829, 1830
1894, 1895
1959, 1960
2024, 2025
2142, 2143
2154, 2155
2219, 2220
2284, 2285
It's not so much a dropped or missing frame, it's the duplicate frame that it doesn't seem to be replacing a missing frame, so effectively the game stalls very slightly every second or so.
I edited the webm and deleted the dupe frames for black space to highlight what it felt like to see a noticeable sign every time it happened, I also then joined up the video without the gaps to see a true fluid 60fps of gameplay. unfortunately the encoding and reencoding into formats my software could handle hasn't done much for image quality and I'm also stuck for somewhere to host the files as abload doesn't want to know about them.
It doesn't appear to be that consistent, if the webm above is something worth judging the performance on (big if) wouldn't they skip a frame after duping one rather than effectively having the game stall? Would that be smoother? I'm not sure tbh, I feel it'll be a day one patch and gone.
PotionBleue
Member
From a couple sites, including eurogamer.net itself ironically. See post #39.
It was pretty clear the game was 720p from the day of the reveal, as Nintendo provided 720p screenshots with pixel-perfect aliasing which indicated no downscale from a 1080p native source.
Probably some Nintendo rep that told a few press members it was 1080p.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
After watching gamersyde videos, I can notice the extra frame tick. Though I suppose because of why it is happening, it's not as jarring as judder due to authentic frame drops. It's harder to see than the frame stutter in poorly optimized 3rd party Wii U games, for instance. (AKA the five dollar port that is Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate.)
So it can be seen once you realize what you're looking for, but I think it's understandable that many people wouldn't instantly notice it. Still seems like a true bug and something that ideally should be patched.
So it can be seen once you realize what you're looking for, but I think it's understandable that many people wouldn't instantly notice it. Still seems like a true bug and something that ideally should be patched.
I watch it on two different PCs and overall, I didn't notice anything... That's a good thing. Even tough, I noticed a veeeery subtle pause of literally 0.00000001 seconds if you focus on the arc of the finish line when the race starts and it moves across the screen as the characters start racing. If the issue is like that then it's all good because really, it's practically unnoticeable/almost non-existent.
Frames Fever 2k14.
Sweet. I don't notice it, so it's not an issue for me. Doubted it would be as I can almost never tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.
Despite my 'bad' eyes for fps, I still love DF analysis. Anyone who has been involved in game development or computer programming or any technical field will probably find that kind of analysis interesting.
Hopefully it gets patched for those who see it.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Okay, fair enough. Now that I know you collaborated on the article and have seen it yourself, and say it's noticeable, I guess that's that.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Don't notice anything, so I guess Mario Kart 8 will still be a great experience for me, yay.
mullet2000
Member
Someone, Eurogamer I think, mentioned it being "1080p" without actually looking into it. Nintendo likes to call its games "1080p" when a game is upscaled 1080p (not calling out Nintendo specifically, many gaming companies do this) and it just got parroted down the line way too many times. It's not the first time this has happened, and it's not last time this is going to happen.
This was happening way before Eurogamer, though. It's been since like last year that I've seen TONS of people thinking the game was 1080p, and spreading that idea to other posters.
Little rule of thumb: Don't take resolution counts from any company as fact unless they are very specific (ie, X game is native 1080p). Wait for tech articles. Also, in Nintendo's case, if you just look at their prior output on Wii U everything else is 720p outside of the Wind Waker HD. It was only reasonable to expect 720p again.
Solid Samus
Banned
Hey, didn't mean to be a dick and I had edited out that not at all well thought out 'speak for everyone' bit almost immediately. I mean, I notice it, but it's not jarring at all, not like I expected it to be from experience with other games with the same bug. That's all I'm saying and I can see why other people wouldn't notice it, I just take issue with the idea that such a thing can't be noticeable.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Thank god I don't notice this kind of thing. All I see there is silky smooth gameplay lol.
Davey Cakes
Member
The most interesting thing about the article is how 4-player split-screen is handled. I had no idea it could work that way.
Nintendo may have run into performance issues but at least they're pretty clever.
Nintendo may have run into performance issues but at least they're pretty clever.
All this does for me is to show how nitpicky people in this thread are. Digital Foundry is allowed to be nitpicky, hell, that's their job.
59 FPS every few seconds while avoiding screen tearing is a whole lot better than 30 FPS locked or unlocked, or unlocked 60 FPS.
I'm so glad to not be able to see that shit.
But then you'd have a much more simplistic looking game, like Smash Bros.
Though tbh, I would have preferred 1080p/60fps with lesser graphics myself, but hey, console gaming.
It's more likely to me that most reviewers just didn't notice. Most posters here won't notice. Some will.
It's a similar method to how Harmonix handled updating the backgrounds in Rock Band at 30 fps (24 fps in RB1 and RB2) for all the fancy lighting and motion blur, but the game still runs at 60 fps because of the note highway, i. e. the actual game part.
dark_prinny
Banned
I see it in this other clip. Not a game breaker but definitely is there. I hope they can´t patch it.
Watched it multiple times, tried to notice. Just can't see it. I'm just going to chalked it up to not being able to see it.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Yeah I know, its cool. I can notice you know, big changes I guess. 60-50 drop suddenly, something that really changes how the screen moves. 60-59 is just so small a change, it is just hard to believe it is not only noticeable but " jarring " some have stated. Its cool though, no big deal.
All I know is, the game looks hella fun. Well done by Nintendo on the level creation.
Makes me go back to the fact that more racing games like this are needed. Everything has gone down " serious lane " in gaming and I'd love a return of more arcade oriented big AAA productions. Over the top levels, over the top moves, just over the top. Like, Sunset Overdrive a bit, nothing taken seriously. Let me jump 600ft. in the air and launch a nuke or something lol.
I love down to earth realism like TLOU as much as the next guy, but I also miss the days of sports games like Mutant League Football or ... whats the name, that robot baseball game from back in the day. Stuff that is meant to be taken with a grain of salt in the world of realism. Reality is a bit boring honestly, games like these are just fun.
superpickleman
Member
I'm the type of person who is too focused on a game to notice most performance issues (I'm talking occasional screen tearing, slightly inconsistent frame rate, etc.) so I'm sure this won't be an issue for me. Actually, I just checked some 60fps footage and I wasn't even sure what it was I should be noticing.
CaptainLoveline
Member
Nope, it's so subtle that you can't see it unless you're deliberately looking for it.
Ok I think I'm done for the good with this because I'm seeing all those webm's pointing the issue (taking the risk of spoil myself with the new tracks that I haven't seen yet) and I can't see anything other than pure smooth graphical goodness and red shells. I just noticed one 000000.001 pause in one of them but really, is practically unnoticeable and no deal breaker at all. Dat good. But for those who can notice it, let's hope Nintendo can patch it in a very casual update after release. All of their 1st Party games on Wii U have received updates after release anyways.
6 days lefttt!
6 days lefttt!