Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio

Night.Ninja

...had custom tag ninja'd
Feb 21, 2016
1,723
485
535
Just look how people are acting to just the specs and a picture, wait until the games drop this place is going to fucking explode.

Still going to hear the same excuses though.
 

tiredheadcrab

Member
Jun 1, 2014
2,265
0
0
Just look how people are acting to just the specs and a picture, wait until the games drop this place is going to fucking explode.

Still going to hear the same excuses though.
It wont be that bad. I am sure PS4 pro owners will be perfectly okay with Scorpio producing better results.

Right?
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,901
0
0
Windsor, UK
Just look how people are acting to just the specs and a picture, wait until the games drop this place is going to fucking explode.

Still going to hear the same excuses though.
By 'just look how people are reacting' you mean 'having a relatively well mannered discussion'?

This is a way calmer thread than I expected
 

Hairsplash

Member
Aug 29, 2016
150
0
200
Mississauga
You're right, SSD's are still about 5x more expensive per GB.
That is changing rapidly, however, and the crossover year looks to
be 2019 - just in time for PS5.


IMO, we do not need an ssd as the only/main drive... just a NVME pcie4x ssd cache drive Socket. (A nvme can have a read rate of 2200 MBPS (about 4 times faster than a ssd... 850pro vs 950pro)
I will purchased the samsung 950pro NVME ssd drive and install it.


Then i can have a 4TB harddrive to hold all of my games... (best of both worlds) the three games that i am using right now would have superfast access, (depending on the games i play)... )
For the minor dis-advantage for a slow first load...
 

yankeehater

Member
Feb 6, 2009
32,750
0
0
I really like when Phil is on as well because he usually tells a story from the OG Xbox days which are always interesting.
Phil is the best guest by far. I love his story about working for the Microsoft Encarta team and such. I really hope he goes on Fallon again some time.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
14,662
1,548
1,030
Are people really expecting 499 or even 399 with these specs?
PS4 had 6 more CUs than Xbox One yet it was cheaper while releasing the same month so why would it be out of the question that MS can release a console a year later than the PS4 Pro with 4 more CUs & 4 more GDDR5 memory chips for close to the same price as the PS4 Pro?

I'm not saying that it will be close to the same price but PS4 Pro & Xbox One Scorpio are not worlds apart & if the PS4 Pro was released a year earlier with 36CUs for $399 why couldn't Scorpio release at $499 or $399 with 40CUs a year later?
 

EagleEyes

Member
Mar 27, 2008
2,306
0
850
PS4 had 6 more CUs than Xbox One yet it was cheaper while releasing the same month so why would it be out of the question that MS can release a console a year later than the PS4 Pro with 4 more CUs & 4 more GDDR5 memory chips for close to the same price as the PS4 Pro?

I'm not saying that it will be close to the same price but PS4 Pro & Xbox One Scorpio are not worlds apart & if the PS4 Pro was released a year earlier with 36CUs for $399 why couldn't Scorpio release at $499 or $399 with 40CUs a year later?
Maybe because Xbox One came with Kinect?
 

SpeedOfNuts

Member
Nov 12, 2010
3,631
0
570
People's Republic of Catalonia
PS4 had 6 more CUs than Xbox One yet it was cheaper while releasing the same month so why would it be out of the question that MS can release a console a year later than the PS4 Pro with 4 more CUs & 4 more GDDR5 memory chips for close to the same price as the PS4 Pro?

I'm not saying that it will be close to the same price but PS4 Pro & Xbox One Scorpio are not worlds apart & if the PS4 Pro was released a year earlier with 36CUs for $399 why couldn't Scorpio release at $499 or $399 with 40CUs a year later?
Didn't every Xbone come with Kinect tho?

edit: beaten by EagleEyes, of course
 

Curufinwe

Member
May 20, 2009
31,241
2
725
Some people are having a hard time dealing with Xbox being more powerful than PS4. Console wars ya know.
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
 

JayWood2010

Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,954
0
0
There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft.
Youre right. Microsoft didnt give Sony a choice.

*Knock knock*

Microsoft: Hey, Sony. Do you mind if we make Xbox 30+% more powerful.

Sony: Ugh, no, we can not allow this.

Microsoft: Awwh darn. Sorry for asking...
 

The Futurist

Member
Nov 4, 2016
773
0
0
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
What the hell?

What control does Sony have over Microsoft in terms of the hardware power they are putting out?

Can't tell if this a serious post or not.
 

yankeehater

Member
Feb 6, 2009
32,750
0
0
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
The only game on Scorpio anyone has seen in forza 6, and that was only behind closed doors. We have one screen shot to go off of. You also that there are things about the Pro that are not understood yet that will make it closer to the Scorpio but that just sounds like wishful thinking. Is it not just as likely that there are things about scorpio that are not known yet as well that could increase the gap between them?
 

00ich

Member
Feb 7, 2007
1,032
20
990
Germany
There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I'm not saying Microsoft haven't built a good system – I'm merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years...
Expect 1800p on PS4 pro vs full 4k (2160p) on Scorpio. That's 40% GPU power. It will be the revesal of 900p vs 1080p.
The PS4 pro will be one year old when the Scorpio launches and supposedly 100$ cheaper. No one fucked up, it's the way the techindustry works.
 

Raide

Member
Oct 29, 2007
24,342
1
0
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
I think it will be a tricky one to get an exact percentage. It's bests Pro in all areas, especially memory bandwidth and GPU performance but how that will translate into something that people can see, is still up in the air. Both systems are constrained by having to support the previous system but Scorpio could certainly push harder if the constraint dropped.

Regardless of that, Scorpio will certainly become the 3rd party console of choice but I am not sure MS will make a huge amount of ground before Sony hype up there next machine. This year will certainly be interesting, since MS will do there best to convince people to wait for the best versions of 3rd party games.
 
Oct 20, 2007
329
0
0
Anything more than $400 U.S., and MS is committing digital suicide. At $500, or even $450, it will appeal only to a niche audience.
 
Oct 17, 2006
2,059
0
0
www.calculusvictoria.ca
edit: fooled.

Anything more than $400 U.S., and MS is committing digital suicide. At $500, or even $450, it will appeal only to a niche audience.
I feel like we've said this a thousand times now, but this IS a niche product, created for a niche market - MS has said this multiple times.

the people who care about 400 vs 500 are not going to be buying this box anyway.

this is for the technology enthusiast crowd, and 100 dollars isn't going to stop us from enjoying the newest / shiniest hardware.
 

tiredheadcrab

Member
Jun 1, 2014
2,265
0
0
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
Pretty sure Albert said this before the PS4 and Xbox one launch. He just switched the names out. It's a joke post.
 

Jumeira

Member
Aug 11, 2015
4,028
0
265
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
Your going to be really upset if you believe this. There's a considerable gap between the 2 when you take everything into account.

Edit: So he was joking, felt sorry for him lol
 

00ich

Member
Feb 7, 2007
1,032
20
990
Germany
Anything more than $400 U.S., and MS is committing digital suicide. At $500, or even $450, it will appeal only to a niche audience.
Both appeal to a niche audience. Untrained eyes won't even find the difference between Xbox One and Scorpio that drastic on a 1080p screen. Especially compared to the price hike (even only) to 400$.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Mar 27, 2014
5,388
0
390
Houston, TX
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
The references are becoming so obscure
 

Space_nut

Member
Oct 12, 2016
1,696
4
250
New jersey
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
lol I knew I read this some where before. Touché
 

Kibbles

Member
Feb 12, 2008
17,117
0
980
Interesting.

"A lot of our internal studios are building games designed from the ground up to showcase true 4k, 6TF all the full power of Scorpio"

Wow that means whatever they show at E3 is going to be mind blowing.
Damn I hope Halo 6 looks better than 5. Shooting for native 4k/60 idk...
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Jun 30, 2004
9,418
24
1,690
50
Mohave Valley Arizona
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

Are people really not realizing this is a joke post based on Albert Penello's BS on neogaf in 2013?
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
Sep 3, 2013
6,745
1
320
I can longer read leeh's posts without laughing my ass off the whole time. bravo whoever made that avatar.

Frankie defending someone bashing MS, clearly this is proof that 343i is going multiplatform.
I didn't get that from the post at all.
 

Team Vernia

Member
May 18, 2007
15,496
0
1,130
More powerful, but I don't believe it's a 30+% power advantage.

The performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about the PS4 Pro system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about Scorpio as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

There is no way Sony will be giving up a 30%+ advantage to Microsoft. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying Microsoft haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
Bravo!
 

Liabe Brave

Member
Jan 23, 2007
4,509
0
1,000
Lawrenceville, GA
PS4 had 6 more CUs than Xbox One yet it was cheaper while releasing the same month so why would it be out of the question that MS can release a console a year later than the PS4 Pro with 4 more CUs & 4 more GDDR5 memory chips for close to the same price as the PS4 Pro?
The Xbox One APU had ESRAM that took up more space than the cut CUs saved, making the chip bigger than PS4's. Scorpio's chip is the same size, and bigger than Pro's.

Scorpio may come in at a low price, but the size of the APU will not help.

Youre right. Microsoft didnt give Sony a choice.
What control does Sony have over Microsoft in terms of the hardware power they are putting out?

Can't tell if this a serious post or not.
He's referencing an Albert Penello post on GAF prior to Xbox One launch, where he claimed Microsoft would never allow a 30% advantage to PS4. Of course, this was idiotic to say for the reasons you point out, and in the event they absolutely did get outclassed by that amount or more.

This is among the reasons you should not take anything Mr. Penello says at face value.
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Jun 30, 2004
9,418
24
1,690
50
Mohave Valley Arizona
Here is the whole post in question

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=80168873

Albert Penello said:
True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled – no prep or anything. I’m surprised I didn’t come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which I’m not a big fan of, because, well… look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

I’m not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who don’t. I’ve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. I’ve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I don’t get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which I’m not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also – this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install – Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I don’t have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because you’d be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs – at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes away…

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
He was a key player in obfuscating the power differential between XB1 and PS4 and actively placed fuel on the console flame wars of 2013. Not to mention he disappeared into the night air whenever he was called out on his antics or when asked for clarification on the "reasons" Xbox One was superior hardware to PlayStation 4.

All of this was totally unsolicited (mis) information IMO and with his intimate knowledge of Xbox One, all of this could have been avoided.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
14,662
1,548
1,030
Maybe because Xbox One came with Kinect?
Didn't every Xbone come with Kinect tho?

edit: beaten by EagleEyes, of course
I accounted for that & even without Kinect PS4 had 6 more CUs than Xbox One with the same price range so why would it be out of the question for a console releasing a year later with 4 more CUs & 4 more GDDR5 chips to be within $100 of the price of the PS4 Pro that came out a year earlier ?
 

wesleyshark

Banned
Jun 7, 2014
15,217
0
0
Pittsburgh, PA
I accounted for that & even without Kinect PS4 had 6 more CUs than Xbox One with the same price range so why would it be out of the question for a console releasing a year later with 4 more CUs & 4 more GDDR5 chips to be within $100 of the price of the PS4 Pro that came out a year earlier ?
I'm of the same thinking on this.
 

platina

Member
Feb 18, 2013
957
0
0
Damn I hope Halo 6 looks better than 5. Shooting for native 4k/60 idk...
That would be so so incredibly foolish. Halo 6 with 4k checkerboard, 4k textures(this is important), 60fps would look photoreal compared to if they just do native 4k/60fps, it would essentially look a little better than halo 5. They need to experiment with checkerboard rendering if they want their games to look better than anything out.