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Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio

GrayDock

Member
Sep 17, 2012
402
0
450
Rio de Janeiro
This isn't even remotely true. What about games like ROTTR?
It's the exception that proves the rule.

Most 3rd games got a higher resolution, better (more stable) framerates, better lightning here and there and better AF sometimes, nothing that drastic, which was expected.

No game got better geometry or better textures, moved from static to dynamic lightning, and so on.

You got better IQ always, sure, but that's it, aside from RotTR.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
43,347
1
1,645
It is going to be 499. Why?, ps4pro is 400. (And all of the tech inside the scorpio is at least equal or better than the ps4pro)
What does the scorpio have that the ps4pro does not have?...
Well, the problem there, and in the follow-up, is the assumption PS4 Pro will still be 400, or will still cost Sony in and around 400 in Fall 2017. Scorpio will cost more to make than Pro this year, but Pro will be to some-or-other degree cheaper to make than it was last year.

Now whether that balances out to something less than 499 or not is another matter. But we can't really use a 400 PS4 Pro price as the baseline to build on.
 

wesleyshark

Banned
Jun 7, 2014
15,217
0
0
Pittsburgh, PA
I don't see the sense. Why would Microsoft take their most expensive service product--potentially the biggest moneymaker they have--and make it free?
Not bundled as in making the console free. Instead of the console being sold with a AAA game being bundled into the box at launch, it's bundled with a trial month of GamePass or something like that.
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,335
1
0
The design decisions here seem really cool.

I'm just not onboard the 4K train. It seems like an awful waste of resources to render more pixels when, like, normal anti-aliasing techniques are far more efficient, and I've never felt that 1080p doesn't have enough resolution. But I guess mandating support for the Xbox One makes that a sensible target, and I don't certainly don't agree that existing adopters of the XB1 platform should be cut off.

Otherwise I want to see some games. Probably they've been holding stuff off for a brand re-launch with Scorpio so hopefully there will be some interesting games out this fall. Right now both PS4 and XB1 are pretty sparse on stuff I'm interested in, especially on the system/console exclusive front.
 

Hairsplash

Member
Aug 29, 2016
150
0
200
Mississauga
Significant. More of a gap than PS4 and XBO.
No... Um, when discount the GPU speed ... ( which could be thermally throttled ) and the difference between the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio is about the difference between 2.1Ghz and 2.3Ghz ... or about 10 percent. (Or the difference between 36 and 40 CU's)

If you consider only the main RAM speed of the ps4 and the XBO, (176Gbps ps4, vs 68Gbps XBO) the ps4 is bringing a gun to a knife fight.
When you add in the esram to comparison, it becomes a Hanzo vs D.va comparison.

Ps4 has 50% more CU's than the XBO. The scorpio has around 50% more peak graphics throughput...

BIG problem, is supporting the XBOX one "OHL hockey" , when the scorpio is "NHL hockey"...
maybe the ps4, or the ps4pro is European hockey?
 

Osiris397

Banned
Jul 28, 2013
284
0
0
Hard coded DX12 is nice and I'm definitely looking into it more, BUT the lack of new, compelling exclusive content (without new info from E3 yet) and the number of years it will take to develop IF MS even has the taste and talent to do it has me thinking PS5 in 2018 is just a better bet.

Even though some people keep claiming PS5 isn't coming until 2020, it seems unlikely Sony is going to wait that long, because they don't have to. PS5 in 2018 doesn't really have any real drawbacks since it will be, by default, backward compatible with PS4/PS4Pro and devs will be able to pick and choose which PS platform(s) to support without penalty like you have with PS4 Pro (everything MUST still run on the OG PS4) and Scorpio (Everything MUST run on the OG Xbone and Xbone S.)

We'll have to see what trinkets MS brings to E3 though. Sea of Thieves, Halo, Gears, Crackdown and State of Decay aren't franchises that do anything for me personally, so beyond those is where I'm looking to see what MS is offering for Scorpio.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Jun 7, 2004
25,433
0
1,520
So, we might hear some 3rd party devs chime in on the Scorpio soon i suspect? Dev kits are probably arriving now? Unleashing the 100% in june as rumor goes?

Would be a good intake to hear from a dev who has worked on it first hand and in an interview.
yeah, curious about this as well. Now that the cat is out of the bag, does this mean developers are free to talk about scorpio hardware and even the games they are working on? If so, I'd expect at least some to show content before e3 so as not to get lost in all the hype of that circus. of course its possible everything other then ledbetter's coverage is still under NDA. MS may want to still control info and media to build up their e3 showing.
 

Chobel

Member
Mar 26, 2013
15,673
3
515
I don't see the sense. Why would Microsoft take their most expensive service product--potentially the biggest moneymaker they have--and make it free?
It's $10-$20 digital good, so the losses won't be significant. And since it's subscription based service, it may convince some people (who would have otherwise not tried it) to continue paying for it after the free trial ends.
 

Space_nut

Member
Oct 12, 2016
1,696
4
250
New jersey
No... Um, when discount the GPU speed ... ( which could be thermally throttled ) and the difference between the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio is about the difference between 2.1Ghz and 2.3Ghz ... or about 10 percent. (Or the difference between 36 and 40 CU's)

If you consider only the main RAM speed of the ps4 and the XBO, (176Gbps ps4, vs 68Gbps XBO) the ps4 is bringing a gun to a knife fight.
When you add in the esram to comparison, it becomes a Hanzo vs D.va comparison.

Ps4 has 50% more CU's than the XBO. The scorpio has around 50% more peak graphics throughput...

BIG problem, is supporting the XBOX one "OHL hockey" , when the scorpio is "NHL hockey"...
maybe the ps4, or the ps4pro is European hockey?
Lmao so wrong where to begin
 

Syrus

Banned
Jan 26, 2014
3,683
0
0
No... Um, when discount the GPU speed ... ( which could be thermally throttled ) and the difference between the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio is about the difference between 2.1Ghz and 2.3Ghz ... or about 10 percent. (Or the difference between 36 and 40 CU's)

If you consider only the main RAM speedi of the ps4 and the XBO, (176Gbps ps4, vs 68Gbps XBO) the ps4 is bringing a gun to a knife fight.
When you add in the esram to comparison, it becomes a Hanzo vs D.va comparison.

Ps4 has 50% more CU's than the XBO. The scorpio has around 50% more peak graphics throughput...

BIG problem, is supporting the XBOX one "OHL hockey" , when the scorpio is "NHL hockey"...
maybe the ps4, or the ps4pro is European hockey?
The scorpio has mote then just gpu over pro.

Cpu speed. Gpu speed , ram speed , calculation speed.

And various other things.

Its more then 10% better
 

Hockeymac18

Member
Aug 10, 2013
1,826
0
0
SF Bay Area
Hard coded DX12 is nice and I'm definitely looking into it more, BUT the lack of new, compelling exclusive content (without new info from E3 yet) and the number of years it will take to develop IF MS even has the taste and talent to do it has me thinking PS5 in 2018 is just a better bet.

Even though some people keep claiming PS5 isn't coming until 2020, it seems unlikely Sony is going to wait that long, because they don't have to. PS5 in 2018 doesn't really have any real drawbacks since it will be, by default, backward compatible with PS4/PS4Pro and devs will be able to pick and choose which PS platform(s) to support without penalty like you have with PS4 Pro (everything MUST still run on the OG PS4) and Scorpio (Everything MUST run on the OG Xbone and Xbone S.)

We'll have to see what trinkets MS brings to E3 though. Sea of Thieves, Halo, Gears, Crackdown and State of Decay aren't franchises that do anything for me personally, so beyond those is where I'm looking to see what MS is offering for Scorpio.
We have no idea what a PS5 would be, so have no idea if backcompat with PS4 is a default. I think it would be smart, but there is definitely no guarantee of that.

2019/2020 makes a lot me sense vs. 2018. Sony wants to make as much money as is possible from the PS4 generation, and they're at their peak (or getting close to it). In other words, there's no reason for them to rush anything... they're still the market leader, and I don't see that changing regardless of Scorpio (which looks awesome, but is obviously not targeting the mainstream console buyers).

Think of it from the perspective of a business who wants to make money - not a 10 year old kid who wants to have the most powerful console on their team (for clarification, I'm not calling you a 10 year old kid - just using it as an example to make the point).
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Jun 7, 2004
25,433
0
1,520
It's $10-$20 digital good, so the losses won't be significant. And since it's subscription based service, it may convince some people (who would have otherwise not tried it) to continue paying for it after the free trial ends.
its probably the cynic in me but i also assume free trials generate a decent amount of money from accidental subscriptions for people that don't cancel their subscription before the end of a free trial.
 

p2535748

Member
Oct 12, 2006
905
0
0
Even though some people keep claiming PS5 isn't coming until 2020, it seems unlikely Sony is going to wait that long, because they don't have to. PS5 in 2018 doesn't really have any real drawbacks since it will be, by default, backward compatible with PS4/PS4Pro and devs will be able to pick and choose which PS platform(s) to support without penalty like you have with PS4 Pro (everything MUST still run on the OG PS4) and Scorpio (Everything MUST run on the OG Xbone and Xbone S.)
The obvious drawback is that you just sold people a console at the end of 2016. If you bring out a new one in 2018 and say that things don't have to still work on the PS4 Pro, then you either get a situation where there are no exclusives for the PS5 (because it will have initially a smaller install base) or you've pissed off the customers who bought the Pro (because they got 2 years out of it and then have to upgrade to play all your games).

There's a reason why they mandate that everything has to play on the stock PS4, just as there's a reason MS says things have to play on the XBO, even though it might hold things back. Dumping support after 2-3 years is a good way to make people wary about buying your next console.

No... Um, when discount the GPU speed ... ( which could be thermally throttled ) and the difference between the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio is about the difference between 2.1Ghz and 2.3Ghz ... or about 10 percent. (Or the difference between 36 and 40 CU's)
This is some insane logic. Why would you discount the GPU speed but count the difference in CU's? Why does the CPU count speed count but not GPU speed? Why would you even speculate about thermal throttling? You're just looking for specs that are close to each other.

I'm not saying the 40% number is right or wrong, but I don't think you're making a good or internally consistent argument here.
 

soundscream

Member
Aug 23, 2009
17,225
11
735
These past 2 days have been fun.

The scorpio is barely more powerful then a pro, yet will be more expensive, MS money hats DF, all while having no games.
 

Bsigg12

Member
Apr 9, 2012
20,743
2
0
I can't wait to see features in the OS that will be Scorpio specific. The UI getting rendered at native 4K will be really nice for those with 4K tvs.

The 4K60 capture built into the system will be great as well.

I hope they announce PiP modes.

I wonder if they'll have another controller revision with the system as well.
 

JayWood2010

Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,954
0
0
No... Um, when discount the GPU speed ... ( which could be thermally throttled ) and the difference between the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio is about the difference between 2.1Ghz and 2.3Ghz ... or about 10 percent. (Or the difference between 36 and 40 CU's)

If you consider only the main RAM speed of the ps4 and the XBO, (176Gbps ps4, vs 68Gbps XBO) the ps4 is bringing a gun to a knife fight.
When you add in the esram to comparison, it becomes a Hanzo vs D.va comparison.

Ps4 has 50% more CU's than the XBO. The scorpio has around 50% more peak graphics throughput...

BIG problem, is supporting the XBOX one "OHL hockey" , when the scorpio is "NHL hockey"...
maybe the ps4, or the ps4pro is European hockey?
Suppose I dont really have to reply, since people did that already for me. Basically, you are wrong is the gist of this.
 

KageMaru

Member
Oct 6, 2010
9,910
1
0
I can't wait to see features in the OS that will be Scorpio specific. The UI getting rendered at native 4K will be really nice for those with 4K tvs.

The 4K60 capture built into the system will be great as well.

I hope they announce PiP modes.

I wonder if they'll have another controller revision with the system as well.
I don't see the US having specific features outside of being rendered in 4K. They will want to keep feature parity with the XBO.
 

Hairsplash

Member
Aug 29, 2016
150
0
200
Mississauga
Name some things that significantly increase the price compared to ps pro?
To requote myself, vapour chamber cooler, 4 more GB ram, UHD drive, and the pack-in-game. (Perhaps also the "State-of-the-art" powersupply.) and LOL, the windows 10 license. 😂 Um, no i kid, i kid.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Jan 24, 2007
19,101
0
0
Nashville, USA
The fact that my sarcasam wasn't obvious speaks to the amount of shit posting going on.
Indeed. I think some people are disappointed in that the Scorpio is not more revolutionary, but no one should be surprised it's stronger than a Pro. I think people wanted revolution so that it's not just Xbox Pro, as they derided PS Pro as being a simple improvement.