I wouldn't be surprised.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Homicide is seeking Legal Action aganist Valve
- Thread starter Blam
- Start date
DeviantBoi
Member
Well, I'm gonna be the one that says it... he kinda has a point.
Sounds to me like there are some legitimate cases of harrassment and Steam support did nothing for him.
And, lets face it... Steam support is shitty and that is bound to bite Valve in the ass sooner or later.
Steam was quick to remove that one developer for saying he wanted to murder Gabe. Why wouldn't they ban that one guy in the OP that basically says the same thing?
Sounds to me like there are some legitimate cases of harrassment and Steam support did nothing for him.
And, lets face it... Steam support is shitty and that is bound to bite Valve in the ass sooner or later.
Steam was quick to remove that one developer for saying he wanted to murder Gabe. Why wouldn't they ban that one guy in the OP that basically says the same thing?
They would just take it circuit court of appeals. WE COULD TAKE THIS TO THE SUPREME COURT!
But DH themselves could ban the people sending death threats, unless Gabe sued that developer DH could have done the same thing.
DeviantBoi
Member
Doesn't seem like they could ban these people. If you're making death threats, maybe you deserve to be banned from Steam completely.
In any case, making death threats is illegal and DH is in their rights to pursue this in the courts.
I think that DH has a despicable business model, but they're in their right to make shitty games and to sell them. Steam now has refunds, so anyone suckered by their games can get their money back. If they're still in business, there must be a market for their games.
So why didn't he report these threats to the police?
That analogy is soooo wrong.
More like you walk in to a casino and a random dude threatens to kill you and hurls abuse at your family. Then the bouncer throws you out for threatening to throw fists at the dude in retaliation.
Steam need to sort out the trolls!
theindieboy
Member
Reading this i think they might have a fair reson, just because they have brought suits against people that were not justified they state specific proveable things here. They may be arsholes or they may not (I don't know enought to form my own opinion) but that does not mean they don't have a case, also i am sure there are other devs that feel this way but as they say dont want to do anything from fear of losing main revenue stream. What with the monopoly Value has i imagine there are a few things on the back end that are not ideal for devs.
Lanrutcon
Member
If I was him I'd just play it safe until his case was settled. Let the crazy run its course.
firenskill2000
Member
You are making two completely different arguments. First you said they were being bullied and something should be done about it. Someone points out that if you're selling a product make it good because if it's not people as is their right will say your product is complete garbage and then your argument changed to its not a free market (why?) even though exactly what happens in a free market happened. Someone creates a product, finds a retailer to sell said product, customers buy, give feedback, retailer deems (for whatever reason they feel necessary within the bounds of the deal between the two parties, in this case for protecting their customers) that they no longer want to sell the product.
Agent Gibbs
Member
If someone makes death threats against you, you go to the police - people should not be defending DH over trying to sue Valve over this matter, genuine threats are not a civil case, they should be seeking aid of the authorities and if and when that is done seeking civil damages.
If someone gives our product a bad review you do not attempt to sue them, the company providing an outlet for your product and everyone else who you dislike
This is beyond a joke, it seems quite apparent that this is another round of attempted intimidation by a company with small man syndrome! how many of those death threats come from people who have previously left negative reviews of DH products and then have become so incensed that they may be sued for having an opinion that they have jokingly/insincerely making 'threats'
This is patent trolling 2.0
If someone gives our product a bad review you do not attempt to sue them, the company providing an outlet for your product and everyone else who you dislike
This is beyond a joke, it seems quite apparent that this is another round of attempted intimidation by a company with small man syndrome! how many of those death threats come from people who have previously left negative reviews of DH products and then have become so incensed that they may be sued for having an opinion that they have jokingly/insincerely making 'threats'
This is patent trolling 2.0
Jack Videogames
Member
Your analogy works if we consider that the person that walks into the casino is dressed on a garbage bag, with his dick out and is trying to gamble using chips made of his own feces.
Agent Gibbs
Member
better analogy would be
DH are an ebay seller
They sell knock off sub par products on ebay
Many people leave negative feedback
A reviewer pulls them up on their poor business
DH sue the reviewer
DH then try to sue those who've left bad feedback
DH then subpoena Ebay for the full details of the users
This makes news and disgruntled people make threats (half heartedly? genuine? who knows its not investigated by law enforcement)
Ebay then suspends the account of DH as they are hostile towards ebay users (who Ebay have a duty of care to protect along with their own business) with genuine complaints and or opinions
DH then sues Ebay over them suspending their account and not giving into their unreasonable demands
Jacksinthe
Banned
I am hoping a judge throws everything out before any steam user needs to throw up a defense or settle.
You don't sue people for death threats though; you report them to the police. The fact that they're trying to go the lawsuit way tells you everything about how genuinely afraid of those threats they are.
Terrible analogy. Digital Homicide are already the bouncer of their forums, from which they can ban anyone they desire. They are also known to being doxxing harrasing douchebags as well.
It seems like those threatening posts that DH cited have actually managed to sway quite a few people, but don't lose sight of the fact that the majority of the users they're trying to sue were doing nothing of the sort - they were just complaining about DH's games and business practices.
There's certainly stuff that Valve can do to improve moderation, community interaction, and general customer support, but this isn't really a rational way to go about it.
Even in the case of the threats, DH choosing to pursue it as a civil case rather than reporting it to the police is a bit off.
There's certainly stuff that Valve can do to improve moderation, community interaction, and general customer support, but this isn't really a rational way to go about it.
Even in the case of the threats, DH choosing to pursue it as a civil case rather than reporting it to the police is a bit off.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Except DH (according to the court case evidence) is going after people saying things like "I'm getting the popcorn ready", "pirated asset flips" (DH love this one...as they buy the assets so it isn't piracy) and "We need to get Jim fucking Sterling son onto this" and then some really weird bits of evidence like a gleam.io giveaway for freebie (I'm guessing they're trying to throw anyone who said anything about keys for greenlight page visits under the bus).
amdb00mer
Member
If there were death threats, then that is an issue. As far as comments or reviews saying a game is terrible and don't buy it, they cannot sue for that. It would be like Columbia Pictures trying to sue critics for their reviews of Ghostbusters saying they did not make the money they should have because reviews hurt ticket sales. Not gonna happen do to the first amendment.
Agent Gibbs
Member
Oooooo that's actually a good analogy!
Not just movies critics, it would be Columbia Picits going to an offical stream site (amazon etc) and asking for the personal information of random users that criticized their movie so they can sue them.
Saddest maybe. But so commonplace that it can hardly be seen as scary.
There was a point in time where I thought this was going to be a quick in and out scam in order to get enough money to fill college funds for his kids. But that was long ago...
Dark_3nergy
Member
I'm not too sure bedrock can stop them. I'm thoroughly convinced Digital Homicide has the ability to reach Earth's molten core.
It's all a matter of when at this point. Might as well suit up for this ride, it's about to get a lot hotter.
themagicalkitsune
Member
Or maybe not, please go on.
CuckFupertino
Banned
How long until they sue GAF and everyone in this thread?
Or has somebody already made this joke
Or has somebody already made this joke
Spaced Harrier
Member
".ninja"? Sounds about right.
That was not subtle, it's like if Harry Potter spent 20 minutes talking about Vold- ye who shall not be named.
AtomicShroom
Member
Except they don't have any lawyers. They represent themselves.
They're going to have to pay Jim Sterling lawyers when they inevatably lose their case.
Omega Kirby
Member
Once you hit rock bottom there''s actualy two more ways. Up or in this case we're going underground to the core
I'm curious what as to their legal theory against Valve.
We've all agreed to binding arbitration via the Valve/Steam TOS
We've all agreed to binding arbitration via the Valve/Steam TOS
Terms of service agreements aren't exactly legally binding.
Ritzboof
Member
Digital Homicide said:
i like how their way of defending themselves and creating a safe environment for their business is to sue 100 steam profiles for $18 million and jim sterling personally for 10.7 million
i listened to that thing where romine and sterling hashed it out, and it kinda sucks, because i know what romines thought process is. ive also been in that position where spite prevents you from conceding or making certain decisions, even if you know theyre the right ones and you have nothing to gain and everything to lose. you just do anything you can to protect your pride, cuz from your point of view, shit really does feel hostile and directed at you. i think it goes without saying that its really destructive. i can clearly tell he has my aspergers, and i really pity him, but everyone with the disability learns how the world works one way or another
ImaLemming
Member
The question is, are these genuine death threats, or people talking shit or expressing anger in an over the top way? People say things like "I want to kill whoever came up with that fucking Muddy Water quest in World of Warcraft!" or "I want to see everyone responsible for Robot Chicken drown!" all the time. Yeah, you could argue it's tasteless, but most people understand they don't really want people to die over a tedious WoW quest and it's a hyperbolic way of saying "This shit sucks." And if the same people keep doing it they need to get knocked on the head by moderation. But can you imagine if people got sued every time they told somebody to "die in a fire" or "jump off a cliff"?
You could argue somebody constantly giving somebody else shit is grounds for harassment, but an investigation needs to be done on the legitimacy of the death threats before jumping right to litigation.
Like most things in law, "it depends", but TOS you have to click through are almost always considered valid contracts by courts.
This is actually a very important point, legally. Rather than muck up the explanation, I'm going to link to Ken White's (Popehat) Lawsplainer blog entry from last year where he goes into detail about the US Supreme Court's ruling on Elonis v. United States, the last swing the law has had at protected speech vs. so-called "true threats".
Addendum: Ken talking about the indictment of Stephen Cebula for threats against Blizzard employees, which in part treads the same ground.
Glitchesarecool
Member
They can, and did ban with one of the fastest banhammers in the west.
there have managed to get in what appears to be their local news?
http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2016/09/21/yuma-digital-homicide-video-games-sue-users/90742572/
This has to just stop. They have lost. Just lose gracfully.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2016/09/21/yuma-digital-homicide-video-games-sue-users/90742572/
This has to just stop. They have lost. Just lose gracfully.