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Digital Homicide is seeking Legal Action aganist Valve
- Thread starter Blam
- Start date
I'm sure they can afford to sue Valve once they get that $15 million from Jim.
If this ever gets to court, I would not expect them to win. And as shitty as it must be having to deal with harassment like this, Digital Homicide are guilty of harassment themselves, considering the doxing and stuff.
If this ever gets to court, I would not expect them to win. And as shitty as it must be having to deal with harassment like this, Digital Homicide are guilty of harassment themselves, considering the doxing and stuff.
TheChocolateWar
Member
The judge certainly seems to think that the factual allegations regarding asset re-use could be seen as defamation. Defamation, more generally, is some kind of non-opinion, factual assertion communicated to a third party which could give rise to a negative inference and thus, cause damages. Basically, statements that go beyond "I dislike this game" into the realm of "this game uses crappy, dated python scripts that were made with the intent to defraud consumers" could certainly be defamation.
It's a slippery slope if Valve releases personal information to 2 individuals rather than the correct authority.
It's a matter more for the police than the lawyers though if we're talking death threats and something unsavoury happens at their house, just suing them isn't going to do shit in the long run and on top of that they'd have to prove that fatwank90 is indeed [insert real name] and that [insert real name] actually was at the keyboard and it wasn't some random guy who made a dummy account.
In terms of defamation, good look with that, the Romine brothers thought that Jim's first impressions (let's all remember Slaughtering Grounds wasn't a review) and on top of that they need to prove it affected their income.
I know you say this in jest but this could have HUGE ramifications on free speech if they win anything within the same stratosphere that they want.
Precisely. I am sure this has been the game plan for a long time.
On one hand, I do feel bad. Even as they pump out cheap to make games with mostly free or cheap assets, it doesn't mean they don't work hard. With the sheer number of releases, they probably have full work loads every day without a single day off so they can make enough money to survive and keep making games. They may not be good st making games, but they clearly love it - as seen by many of their fervent defenses of the indefensibly bad games. They do care.
On the other hand, valve's platform is theirs, and the fine print essentially says they can do (and not do) anything they please with how they moderate and that it's up to their descretion. There are some general guidelines, but it's more like Twitter or YouTube. It's mostly unfiltered. Even as FB apologizes and bans - they don't actually have to do that. That's just something they chose to do.
Valve doesn't have to do anything either. So they haven't. No one is forcing you to release your games on steam. There are other platforms.
So the lawsuit (if it happens) is a loss already. No court is going to dictate how an online entity chooses to moderate it's community.
The reality is, this is a desperate attempt to get your games back on steam. Vavle holds all rights to what content can and cannot be present and they can remove it for any reason. So throw a fit, but that's what you signed up for.
The thing is, there are hundreds of devs like you DH, who make quick, cheap games that aren't that good but make enough to get by. Sterling and many others also trash those games. Their response? Ignore the noise and keep making games. The biggest mistake you made is taking offense and going after talking heads, trolls, and everything in-between. You, not Jim, made things go down this path. Until you called Jim out, your coverage was perfectly normal and sales were probably okay.
See what Helll Games is doing? People have even more legit reasons to be mad at them and they are just being silent. Because that's the appropriate response. Just keep making games. Them opening their mouths is how they got into that mess.
So I feel bad, but this is entirely self inflicted.
On the other hand, valve's platform is theirs, and the fine print essentially says they can do (and not do) anything they please with how they moderate and that it's up to their descretion. There are some general guidelines, but it's more like Twitter or YouTube. It's mostly unfiltered. Even as FB apologizes and bans - they don't actually have to do that. That's just something they chose to do.
Valve doesn't have to do anything either. So they haven't. No one is forcing you to release your games on steam. There are other platforms.
So the lawsuit (if it happens) is a loss already. No court is going to dictate how an online entity chooses to moderate it's community.
The reality is, this is a desperate attempt to get your games back on steam. Vavle holds all rights to what content can and cannot be present and they can remove it for any reason. So throw a fit, but that's what you signed up for.
The thing is, there are hundreds of devs like you DH, who make quick, cheap games that aren't that good but make enough to get by. Sterling and many others also trash those games. Their response? Ignore the noise and keep making games. The biggest mistake you made is taking offense and going after talking heads, trolls, and everything in-between. You, not Jim, made things go down this path. Until you called Jim out, your coverage was perfectly normal and sales were probably okay.
See what Helll Games is doing? People have even more legit reasons to be mad at them and they are just being silent. Because that's the appropriate response. Just keep making games. Them opening their mouths is how they got into that mess.
So I feel bad, but this is entirely self inflicted.
TheChocolateWar
Member
I hadn't applied the standards of defamation to the present case. Just because someone alleges defamation and gets third party discovery does not mean they are going to win. However, likelihood of success at trial isn't generally part of the equation when obtaining information from third parties. There are legal avenues for Valve's lawyers to block this kind of thing, like a Protective Order and having the info reviewed in camera, or an injunction, or some such.
But that wasn't the point I was making. The fact of the matter is that if you go around posting defamatory material online and making factual assertions about a company, you better be prepared for the repercussions and be willing to fight your case.
Thanks for helping to perpetuate steam cards showelvare games on Steam. You do realize that DH got money for every card you sold? You do realize that DH constantly gives away keys for their "games" for free, so that they can then collect the money from cards? This is why DH flooded the store with so many showelvare games; to collect money from card sales. And they're not the only one coz almost every showelvare spammer depends on steam cards to make money.
Lady Siara
Member
This whole thing is such a circus. Instead of taking some of the constructive criticism they've received about their games, they narcissistically lash out at anyone involved. Dungeons of Kragmore wasn't amazing but it looked like they were starting to grasp game development a bit. Why bog yourself down with all of this petty shit instead of continuing to hone your craft? You could have made a decent or even good game at some point and redeemed yourselves.
Trying to understand their current actions is kind of impossible. Mind boggling decisions where you not only make enemies of your customers but also your primary storefront is the norm. They're incredibly unstable and erratic where each new wall of text reads like the ravings of a lunatic.
Hopefully they take some time off to reflect after this all blows over.
Trying to understand their current actions is kind of impossible. Mind boggling decisions where you not only make enemies of your customers but also your primary storefront is the norm. They're incredibly unstable and erratic where each new wall of text reads like the ravings of a lunatic.
Hopefully they take some time off to reflect after this all blows over.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
Now the fun part is seeing if Valve will actually decide that dealing with Digital Homicide is a higher priority than announcing Half-Life 3. :^)
That's the most beautiful thing, Jim and the 100 steam users have so many examples that would draw to the conclusion of asset flipping that DH need to prove otherwise, hell during the 1 hour long interview with Jim the most original thing DH could come up with in terms of what they made with Slaughtering Grounds was lines of code.
But they did reuse assets. The judge messed up and it wouldn't hold up in an actual court case imo. Also, again, they'd need to prove that every single one of those 100 users did this, and based on the OP they're not off to a good start.
capitalCORN
Member
You don't get it, WHITE MALES.
TheChocolateWar
Member
Thats the beautiful thing about defamation law. Truth is an affirmative defense. However, truth is not a shield from having the aggreived party finding out who you are. Truth doesn't shield you from the lawsuit. You have to prove your case in a court of law. The burden of proof is on the declarant. That is why you have to "be prepared to defend yourself". That is how the law works. If you don't want to be dragged in front of a court in the future, it may be wise not to make factual assertions against companies or individuals.
Partially correct. They certainly had to submit affidavits to each and every user they claimed committed some kind of tortious act against them. I'm sure they did. I actually read their pleadings, and their pleadings have excerpts of those they are seeking to discover. The judge did not mess up, this is how the law is supposed to work. That does not mean that DH will win.
Zurick
Banned
And now they're gonna sue Gaf. THANKS JESUS.
Bigrx1
Banned
I'm about halfway through the interview between Sterling and Romine right now - it's mind blowing. Like this dude seriously thinks he's making amazing point after amazing point and totally GETTING JIM GOOD. But it's just cringe worthy and truly baffling how he seriously seems incapable of seeing his own part in all of this.
I haven't watched the vid but your description makes that DH guy complete textbook narcissist. Would explain this whole thing really, normal professional people don't get mad at small stuff.
StarStabbedMoon
Member
This is the only plausible scenario I see DH having any chance of avoiding being ruined by this lawsuit.
InsaneTiger
Member
This is such a weird saga. DH has this belief that their games must be present on Steam simply because they make games. Valve, like any other business, has the right to remove anything they want from their store.
DH also seems to believe that they are above reproach and should never have their games or company criticized for any reason whatsoever.
DH also seems to believe that they are above reproach and should never have their games or company criticized for any reason whatsoever.
No matter what you think of DH as devs that shit in screenshots they posted isn't acceptable, imo. You shouldn't be allowed to go around threatening to kill someone and their families or tell them kill themselves. Toxic shit like that can end with some very serious consequences when said to "wrong person" who is in vulnerable mindset.
Jacksinthe
Banned
They don't, at least I don't believe.
I was told once by a concrete company: There's not a lot of money in concrete, but there's a lot of money in a lot of concrete.
I believe this is the modus operandi of DH. Throw everything at the wall, pretty much.
Forget Final Fanstasy 15, forget Final Fantasy 7 remake, forget the next Star Wars, forget the births of my future children, forget the second coming of Christ, the one thing I'm looking forward to most in the world is the inferno of burns that Jim Sterling will be sending DigiHom's way once this is all over.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
The guy running the company is an absolute tool and was literally attempting to sue users who left unfavorable reviews. There's absolutely zero reason to feel any sympathy for him. Personally I hope he fails miserably at this attempted suit and is left ruined.
VibratingDonkey
Member
While Digital Homicide has been, and is, frequently ridiculous and in the wrong for their response to people criticizing their crappy shovelware and practices, here they make a fair grievance regarding Valve's lackadaisical moderation. Threats and harassment is never ok. Doing nothing about it fosters a toxic, hostile, shitty environment. Valve could certainly afford to do better by both their user and developer communities.
Hopefully this will somehow lead to something good, I guess?
Hopefully this will somehow lead to something good, I guess?
The only thing Digital Homicide loves is to churn out as many "games" as possible (with minimal effort), give away thousands and thousands of keys while also putting the games into cheap bundles or high Steam store discounts, watch +1 game collectors and card idlers drive down prices of the trading cards for each game due to the overwhelming supply, and reap some apparently sustainable profits from market transaction fees due to badge crafts buying all those cheap and plentiful cards.
Digital Homicide is within their rights to do the above, but they are not some struggling indie dev who is passionate about what they do. It's nothing more than a small-time operation gaming the system. That so-called fervent defense is because this Romine fellow is extremely thin-skinned and insecure (or just a dedicated troll with above average competence). His conduct in the past year or so has been pathetic and appalling.
I for one, propose we all chip in for the fund!
To get them a prize for all the entertainment these meltdowns have given us.
Why? By the time this is all over, DigiHom won't be worth a single cent. They can't sell their products on the biggest digital storefront and their brand is worthless.
I understand wanting to see salt in the wound, but I don't want to see Valve and Jim spend money when they won't get any back.
Patrick S.
Banned
Nice URL. More like going-out-of-business-bundle though.
But this is about Valve not doing anything about users harassing and threatening DH people and players of their games, not directly about quality of DH's games and them defending their work? I think Valve should have stricter rules and moderation when it comes to people posting death threats or telling people to go and kill themselves.
Pretty sure this was the reason they tried to sue steam customers in the first place.
Sad of me to say but Internet be internetin'
The law still needs to catch up to the digital space, but we're still lagging behind on that at present.
However unlike Facebook and Twitter though I thought DH could do the moderation themselves, they sure did like using the ban hammer on negative reviews of their games on Steam forums a few years ago.
ImaLemming
Member
There was a short story I read in the first Unidentified Funny Objects compilation, in which a brilliant physicist tries to take up belly dancing. She becomes obsessed with this other woman who can belly dance better than her, and somehow uses a particle accelerator to send a message to her past self (it's SF, run with it) to drop her physics studies and learn belly dancing RIGHT NOW.
Suddenly she gains belly dancing knowledge, but she now has a bad knee. Then she finds out her husband is having an affair with the girl she wanted to beat in belly dancing. She's also having a hard time reading her notes on how the particle accelerator works. So she sends her past self another message to take up belly dancing even harder and take care of her knee.
She may do this a third time, but at the end of the story her physics notes are gobbledegoop to her, and the girl she was obsessed with got her notes, sold them, and is now credited with inventing time travel. The story ends with her being shot by her broken, withered future self.
I know comparing DigiHom to a woman who invented time travel is a huge stretch, but the analogy is there; become obsessed with trying to "beat" anyone you perceive to be a threat, even when they're not, and you self destruct.
Oh wow, the story is online. Formatting's a pain, though.
Suddenly she gains belly dancing knowledge, but she now has a bad knee. Then she finds out her husband is having an affair with the girl she wanted to beat in belly dancing. She's also having a hard time reading her notes on how the particle accelerator works. So she sends her past self another message to take up belly dancing even harder and take care of her knee.
She may do this a third time, but at the end of the story her physics notes are gobbledegoop to her, and the girl she was obsessed with got her notes, sold them, and is now credited with inventing time travel. The story ends with her being shot by her broken, withered future self.
I know comparing DigiHom to a woman who invented time travel is a huge stretch, but the analogy is there; become obsessed with trying to "beat" anyone you perceive to be a threat, even when they're not, and you self destruct.
Oh wow, the story is online. Formatting's a pain, though.
You should sue Valve for creating trading cards
I'm not the one sending money to DH.
alfredofroylan
Member
So I decided to check their "sale" and What in the name of Gawd is this?!
Not only they can, they actually did. Thousands of times, even for the slightest criticism. Which is why their allegation that they can't somehow block these people is 100% bullshit.