Oh man.So in the comparison shot with the three face close-ups; the ps4 and pc.ones where being smeared with dof? That doesn't sound like a good situation to compare the iq.
Oh man.So in the comparison shot with the three face close-ups; the ps4 and pc.ones where being smeared with dof? That doesn't sound like a good situation to compare the iq.
MS did a better job with this whole mid gen thing but I'm happy with my Pro till next-gen.
The coolest part for One X owners is that these are early upgrades.
Games being built with One X in mind from scratch will really show what it's capable of.
Oh man.
Those faces aren't impacted by depth of field as the DoF effect is not very shallow in that scene to begin with. I thought it was motion blur at first but, looking closer at the footage frame by frame, that doesn't even seem to be the case.Idk if that's true tho. I had been assuming the dog was all in background/forground stuff. If the face shots are taken from a screenshot where her face is far back enough into the scene, then it maybe could be effected by the dof. The thing that makes me question it is the way the PC face is soft looking.
Do we know or not sure?
Those faces aren't impacted by depth of field as the DoF effect is not very shallow in that scene to begin with. I thought it was motion blur at first but, looking closer at the footage frame by frame, that doesn't even seem to be the case.
One X will never be the main development platform for multiplat games as long as games need to be playable across both concoles. It's much more feasible to scale up an Xbox One/PS4 game than to scale down an Xbox One X game.
Idk if that's true tho. I had been assuming the dog was all in background/forground stuff. If the face shots are taken from a screenshot where her face is far back enough into the scene, then it maybe could be effected by the dof. The thing that makes me question it is the way the PC face is soft looking.
Do we know or not sure?
Maybe different aa? I can see the PC one has more detail than the pro one, yet they both have the softness.
Idk if that's true tho. I had been assuming the dog was all in background/forground stuff. If the face shots are taken from a screenshot where her face is far back enough into the scene, then it maybe could be effected by the dof. The thing that makes me question it is the way the PC face is soft looking.
Do we know or not sure?
Those faces aren't impacted by depth of field as the DoF effect is not very shallow in that scene to begin with. I thought it was motion blur at first but, looking closer at the footage frame by frame, that doesn't even seem to be the case.
If that's the case, how do you suggest they do it if two versions are "smeared with dof" and one is not? This is how the games look so this is the comparison they can do. And to be fair, it goes both ways, there are those who think "smeared with dof" is a nice effect so I guess for them XBX essentially has the worst version in this comparison.So in the comparison shot with the three face close-ups; the ps4 and pc.ones where being smeared with dof? That doesn't sound like a good situation to compare the iq.
If that's the case, how do you suggest they do it if two versions are "smeared with dof" and one is not? This is how the games look so this is the comparison they can do. And to be fair, it goes both ways, there are those who think "smeared with dof" is a nice effect so I guess for them XBX essentially has the worst version in this comparison.
Those faces aren't impacted by depth of field as the DoF effect is not very shallow in that scene to begin with. I thought it was motion blur at first but, looking closer at the footage frame by frame, that doesn't even seem to be the case.
oh man.
EDIT: come on bro you are reaching.
DOF incurs a hardware penalty, whether you like it or not is besides the fact. The DOF here cannot be disabled on the PRO, so it's not a 1:1 comparison. In that instance, the PRO version has a graphical effect not seen on the XBONEX and that is the primary difference you're seeing here texture-wise.
DOF has noting to with Native and CB. DOF WILL NOT change the sharpens but 4KNative vs CB? NO, this is not the best game to test it out, at least not now. Since the XBONEX version appears sharper due to the lack of DOF...Again, it's not a 1:1 comparison. PC and PS4-Pro version would look just as clear without DOF applied, minus any resolution differences of course...or ones which you could decipher..
Wrong!The 12GB of ram on XBONEX does not all go to the GPU,
.it's one pool.
yes of 256bits too X1X's 326bitsThe OS has to share that, at least 3GB. That leaves around 9Gb for games, but then, typical graphics cards at half the price of the XBONEX as you said ($250.00) have 8GB of dedicated Vram (RX580),
The RX580 is only 256GB/s that's not much faster than Ps4 Pro's 218GB/s that's why its a 1440p card.they also run at higher core and memory speeds over the XBONEX.......
That's real slow when you look at the Memory.They also run in tandem with System Ram (DDR4 memory at 3200Mhz typically, 16-32GB),
I can see the pro one could be blown out from cb'ing, but the PC one should be sharp, too. Am I the one reaching?
This is the scene that was taken for the comparison based on Lara's face. No DoF on the PS4 Pro as well.
Beaten by dark10x:
Cool then it's pretty much just the textures and resolution doing the work here. This bodes well for the future if the extra RAM for textures and power for higher res can give this kind of results.No DoF in this specific scene that was used for the comparison. See quote below and my comment just above yours!
I totally understand people care for this kind of stuff, but i can barely see the difference.
A waste of GPU power on extra pixels. At least when comes to this game. Chasing 4k now, 8k in few years :/
To be clear, I wasn't denigrating Digital Foundry's work. I think this approach is viable, and personal opinions as opposed to analysis are stated clearly as such in your videos and articles. I was just correcting an apparent misapprehension that DF doesn't include subjective takes (as if that were even possible for a critic!).Just to support this statement - yes, I regularly provide persona opinions about games in these videos. If I'm passionate about a game it's definitely going to shine through. It's been that way since we started doing video in this style.
It's also missing reflections in Lara's eyes that are present even in the unenriched Pro mode. This may also be something they fix before release.Native 4K mode is missing some features on XOX. Tessellation is only enabled when using enriched mode, for instance, and you don't get VXAO or other high-end PC features.
Could it be partially due to AA? I ask because one of the new features listed is improved AA, yes? If PC is using FXAA and One X not, that certainly could have the potential to create a disparity in sharpness across the image.Those faces aren't impacted by depth of field as the DoF effect is not very shallow in that scene to begin with. I thought it was motion blur at first but, looking closer at the footage frame by frame, that doesn't even seem to be the case.
I totally understand people care for this kind of stuff, but i can barely see the difference.
A waste of GPU power on extra pixels. At least when comes to this game. Chasing 4k now, 8k in few years :/
Some full-res screen caps:
PS4 Pro version looks blurrier than I remember. Definitely a nice upgrade on the One X, especially the texture upgrades. Those really make good use of the higher resolution. I do hope they add DoF back in though.
Why did i scroll down to the comment section.
Since the XBONEX version appears sharper due to the lack of DOF...Again, it's not a 1:1 comparison. PC and PS4-Pro version would look just as clear without DOF applied,
I didn't plan to distort your intent. It just seems to me that your quote "personal opinions are not considered by DF about the quality of a game" isn't difficult to understand, and could only have one meaning. That is, that they don't take their own opinions into account when assessing a title's excellence.
If that's not what you meant, what did you mean? I can't really come up with any other reading.
You responded effectively to his goofy statement, so I felt no need to pile on. But in the course of that, you made two different claims. First, that better textures may not fit in Pro's smaller memory; I agree. Second, that better textures "quite likely won't" fit on Pro. That's not a statement that we don't know, that's an explicit claim that you have evidence making it more probable than not. This is what I disagree with. Do you have a justification for that position?
More and faster memory! Devs will make use of it!
I thought Xbone X and PS4/Pro have the same GGDR5 memory speed? Xbone X obviously has more RAM and bandwidth though.
The fact that this has some things even the PC version doesn't suggests that it'll be the exception and not the rule. I'll be quite surprised if the differences will be quite as dramatic as this in yet to be released multiplatform games, although that RAM is going to be doing some serious work with textures and foliage. Pretty exciting.
All it makes me wish is that Devs sack off 4k and just try to do as much with the hardware as possible at 1080p. The amount of resources that 4k rendering uses is astronomically high, which will limit these systems potential.
I don't know about that. Developers have already known about Project Scorpio for twice as long as they did about Pro when its first enhanced games were shown. Ground-up One X games should indeed be better, but the current examples aren't really "early".
I think you are wrong, the Pro vs X1X comparison is much more relevant because both these platforms are selling to the same crowd, the core console gamer. Not to mention that the difference in power is much smaller than Wii to 360.
Post makes no sense. The game in this very thread isnt held back by the vanilla one version.
Personally I think the best comparison would be Xbox vs X1X. Surely most interested buyers will be upgrading from Xbox so that is something theyd want to see - how big a difference does it make? Just like PS4 vs pro comparisons.
I know everyone is arguing that the RAM increase is the reason for the 'upgraded' textures but I call bs.
Pro version is checkerboard so there is no RAM issue with 4k assets, I'm positive Nix could update both PC and Pro version with the same quality assets as these new Xbonx assets, and have virtually everything the same save resolution differences, and the difference would be minimal, or about as apparent as Xbone/ps4 level difference.!maybe less due to the incredible checkerboard process.
What we are seeing here is far beyond what a normal comparison would be because the textures have been literally changed. The fact they are not on pc version says it all.
I know everyone is arguing that the RAM increase is the reason for the 'upgraded' textures but I call bs.
Pro version is checkerboard so there is no RAM issue with 4k assets, I'm positive Nix could update both PC and Pro version with the same quality assets as these new Xbonx assets, and have virtually everything the same save resolution differences, and the difference would be minimal, or about as apparent as Xbone/ps4 level difference.!maybe less due to the incredible checkerboard process.
What we are seeing here is far beyond what a normal comparison would be because the textures have been literally changed. The fact they are not on pc version says it all.
I know everyone is arguing that the RAM increase is the reason for the 'upgraded' textures but I call bs.
Pro version is checkerboard so there is no RAM issue with 4k assets
No it doesn't say it all, because we've seen the PC version of the previous Tomb Raider not get updated as well, and that hardly "said it all" for the differences between the Definitive Edition and the game as it was on PS3/360. Same deal with DoA5LR.
The PS4P version being checkerboarded means very little. It would make sense for the previous textures to be effectively using all the memory budget the XB1 and PS4 had, and the PS4 Pro has almost none extra on top of that. Yes, the textures are redone... much like a high-res texture pack for other games often are. That doesn't mean those "high-res textures" dont actually require more memory... because they typically do. This is why MS plans to allow "4K assets" to be downloaded only on XB1X consoles, as the assets would require a larger download, and wouldn't make sense to download to a console that wouldn't have the memory to display them. The PS4 Pro is in that league with the XB1 and PS4.
PS4 Pro has an extra 1GB over the stock PS4, so increased texture resolution is not really an option, as there is not enough memory to hold them.
Xbox X has an extra 4gb over the Stock Xbox and Ps4,
So the option of increasing texture resolution, is achievable.
So is a lack of DoF considered a bad thing? Doesnt it mean that more of the image is presented more clearly? Is DoF preferred because of a more cinematic look? Is the effect costly?
I'm curious - how does checkerboarding affect texture usage? If the engine doesn't reference the textures when creating the 'in between' pixels, then does that mean there is less benefit for higher res textures because the effective resolution can only ever be the original pre-CB resolution?
I know everyone is arguing that the RAM increase is the reason for the 'upgraded' textures but I call bs.
Pro version is checkerboard so there is no RAM issue with 4k assets, I'm positive Nix could update both PC and Pro version with the same quality assets as these new Xbonx assets, and have virtually everything the same save resolution differences, and the difference would be minimal, or about as apparent as Xbone/ps4 level difference.!maybe less due to the incredible checkerboard process.
What we are seeing here is far beyond what a normal comparison would be because the textures have been literally changed. The fact they are not on pc version says it all.
I'm curious - how does checkerboarding affect texture usage? If the engine doesnt reference the textures when creating the 'in between' pixels, then does that mean there is less benefit for higher res textures because the effective resolution can only ever be the original pre-CB resolution?
Yeah it's like the focal length in photography, the main object in the picture is in focus but things behind it will be out of focus, you're essentially showing the viewer what part of the picture they should look at. It's a really cool effect when used in the right way. But I won't cry if it never show up in the X version. If someone from Nixxes is lurking at the board - make DOF optional please.So is a lack of DoF considered a bad thing? Doesnt it mean that more of the image is presented morwwe clearly? Is DoF preferred because of a more cinematic look? Is the effect costly?
The 12GB of ram on XBONEX does not all go to the GPU,
Wrong!
Yeah it's like the focal length in photography, the main object in the picture is in focus but things behind it will be out of focus, you're essentially showing the viewer what part of the picture they should look at. It's a really cool effect when used in the right way. But I won't cry if it never show up in the X version. If someone from Nixxes is lurking at the board - make DOF optional please.
Yeah it's like the focal length in photography, the main object in the picture is in focus but things behind it will be out of focus, you're essentially showing the viewer what part of the picture they should look at. It's a really cool effect when used in the right way. But I won't cry if it never show up in the X version. If someone from Nixxes is lurking at the board - make DOF optional please.
Looks like there is no depth of field blur on XBX in the first scene, which inevitably blurs the image (as seen on PC as well). That explains the huge difference in sharpness that is not there in the second picture.
So basically, intentionally blurring a large portion of the image too draw focus to a specific area of the screen.
Is DoF a technically demanding effect? Or a liberating one?
I can see an artistic benefit to including it... but i could also understand why an artist would want it turned off to show off new assets.